"New York Giants owner John Mara empowers general manager Jerry Reese to have final say in most matters. But Mara sits in on draft meetings and studies the book of scouts' reports. And if there is a disagreement between Reese and the head coach, Mara casts the tiebreaker."
Link - (
New Window )
Quote:
In comment 12927436 seanr said:
Quote:
In comment 12927414 Steve in South Jersey said:
Quote:
Mara should have no part in this.
He is the Owner no offense he can do whatever he wants.
Wellington Mara put us through hell in the 60s and 70s by inserting himself into the process.
I don't disagree but I am just saying its his team. What I would say is he can't blame Reese if he is gong to insert himself too much into the process.
I have posted a number of times my opinion that this is at the very heart of why the front GM and the front office was largely spared while TC was singled out and fired.
Whether you agree with TC being fired or not isn't even the issue, but Mara IMO is far too involved in the footballs decision and it has hurt this franchise. And of course he has every right to do so.
Same here and people still don't see it.
I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree but I would have thought he would have learned from his fathers mistakes and not so easily fallen into the temptation to repeat them himself.
"Meggett could help on third downs," Mara told him. "He can return punts. He can return kicks. You could develop a role for him."
Parcells respected Mara. He listened. He relented.
Meggett was voted an All-Pro three times and ended his career with the most punt-return yards in history. After Parcells left the Giants to become coach of the Patriots, he signed Meggett in New England.
Chris Mara looks pretty damn good there.
agreed. He was desperate for CB help (yeah I know BPA BS) and wanted Revis but needed assets.
That is inferring a lot. Maybe they simply made the decision because of coaching and wins and losses.
Quote:
In comment 12927449 Steve in South Jersey said:
Quote:
In comment 12927436 seanr said:
Quote:
In comment 12927414 Steve in South Jersey said:
Quote:
Mara should have no part in this.
He is the Owner no offense he can do whatever he wants.
Wellington Mara put us through hell in the 60s and 70s by inserting himself into the process.
I don't disagree but I am just saying its his team. What I would say is he can't blame Reese if he is gong to insert himself too much into the process.
I have posted a number of times my opinion that this is at the very heart of why the front GM and the front office was largely spared while TC was singled out and fired.
Whether you agree with TC being fired or not isn't even the issue, but Mara IMO is far too involved in the footballs decision and it has hurt this franchise. And of course he has every right to do so.
It makes sense that the guy writing the checks and spending the money would get more involved as the team has continually failed to make the playoffs. He should. You don't want an absentee owner. You want an owner that cares. Nobody seemed to mind the ownership situation when things were going well. So things turn bad for a time thanks to bad personnel moves and somehow it's on him? Do we think that Mara suddenly turned into Jerry Jones, took credit for the super bowls, and started dictating who they would and would not draft?
Reading that article how could any of us be surprised that the Giants were drafting guys that didn't fit the former head coachs' playing style. In what universe did The Mara's/Reese/Ross think Tom Coughlin would want to spend a 3rd round pick on an undersized H back? That's just one glaring example.
But then you read that John Mara was making the final call if there was a disagreement between Reese & Coughlin. The same John Mara that said Coughlin had more input into the roster than any coach the Giants have ever had. I guess after reading this article John Mara would know.
What a mess the drafts have been in the post Ernie era. Maybe now we know why.
Sure, ownership has changed, so structure has changed. But those changes took place around 2006. Between then and now, we've had brilliant success, and now a run of mediocrity. Are we to only give Mara the blame for the downturn and none of the credit for the success?
Quote:
In comment 12927480 seanr said:
Quote:
In comment 12927449 Steve in South Jersey said:
Quote:
In comment 12927436 seanr said:
Quote:
In comment 12927414 Steve in South Jersey said:
Quote:
Mara should have no part in this.
He is the Owner no offense he can do whatever he wants.
Wellington Mara put us through hell in the 60s and 70s by inserting himself into the process.
I don't disagree but I am just saying its his team. What I would say is he can't blame Reese if he is gong to insert himself too much into the process.
I have posted a number of times my opinion that this is at the very heart of why the front GM and the front office was largely spared while TC was singled out and fired.
Whether you agree with TC being fired or not isn't even the issue, but Mara IMO is far too involved in the footballs decision and it has hurt this franchise. And of course he has every right to do so.
It makes sense that the guy writing the checks and spending the money would get more involved as the team has continually failed to make the playoffs. He should. You don't want an absentee owner. You want an owner that cares. Nobody seemed to mind the ownership situation when things were going well. So things turn bad for a time thanks to bad personnel moves and somehow it's on him? Do we think that Mara suddenly turned into Jerry Jones, took credit for the super bowls, and started dictating who they would and would not draft?
My perception is that the more he has seemingly gotten involved the worse things have gotten. I guess we can go in circles on that but that's my take.
As to this point:
How about the novel idea of simply holding the GM and front office accountable and replacing them if he believes that instead of getting actively involved in the process himself? I fail to see where the owner making football decisions has to even be an option. I understand why owners do it but it doesn't mean it is the best option. I would prefer he hire a new GM id he doesn't trust the one he has to make the hardest football decisions they are presented with.
That's obvious.
My point was in response to you reasoning of why his being justified in getting more personally involved.
When you can't seem to put a roster together, you get involved.
But especially so for John Mara since this IS his job. He's not a billionaire businessman by day dangling a sports franchise like an expensive hobby a la woody johnson. The direction of the franchise directly affects him. If the Giants go into the tank and lose national presence, that's money out of pocket.
lol.
In essence John Mara signed off on every pick in that system. If Coughlin or Reese hated the idea they just had to kick and scream until dad made the decision for them.
And ironically that is why I believe he should be smart enough to have learned from his dads mistakes and understand that hiring the best football minds that he can and leaving the football decisions to them gives him the highest chance of success.
I can much easily understand the billionaire who buys a team for fun and prestige wanting to get involved. An owner believing he is the smartest football mind in the room when faced with those toughest decisions better fits that type of owner and not someone who grew up knowing that isn't usually true.
Quote:
Mara should have no part in this.
He is the Owner no offense he can do whatever he wants.
I posted earlier in the thread about how the entire statement makes little sense when really looking at what it it says.
Reading that article how could any of us be surprised that the Giants were drafting guys that didn't fit the former head coachs' playing style. In what universe did The Mara's/Reese/Ross think Tom Coughlin would want to spend a 3rd round pick on an undersized H back? That's just one glaring example.
But then you read that John Mara was making the final call if there was a disagreement between Reese & Coughlin. The same John Mara that said Coughlin had more input into the roster than any coach the Giants have ever had. I guess after reading this article John Mara would know.
What a mess the drafts have been in the post Ernie era. Maybe now we know why.
Umm.. the H-Back was the reason why Mike Pope was shown the door first. TC and his position coaches won many of those battles with scouts. Mara said so himself in his 2011 training camp interview on WFAN. Pope thought he could be the next Clark but then wanted him to block like Bravo. And Mara is not a big Sullivan guy for pumping up Barden and not being able to develop him. Two guys the owners took time to say they need to show something.
You cannot fire the owner. Reese may be a figurehead.
Quote:
But especially so for John Mara since this IS his job. He's not a billionaire businessman by day dangling a sports franchise like an expensive hobby a la woody johnson. The direction of the franchise directly affects him. If the Giants go into the tank and lose national presence, that's money out of pocket.
And ironically that is why I believe he should be smart enough to have learned from his dads mistakes and understand that hiring the best football minds that he can and leaving the football decisions to them gives him the highest chance of success.
I can much easily understand the billionaire who buys a team for fun and prestige wanting to get involved. An owner believing he is the smartest football mind in the room when faced with those toughest decisions better fits that type of owner and not someone who grew up knowing that isn't usually true.
But Mara doesn't see himself as a Jerry Jones or Sydner. An oil guy or media mogul who brought a football team. He considers himself raised as a football guy. Trained to take over the family business.
The best example of this was 1995, when Reeves wanted Rashaan Salaam while Boisture preferred Ty Wheatley. Young sided with his personnel man. What I found most interesting about the scenario was that Young actually preferred Korey Stringer to both of them, but only considered Wheatley and Salaam in his decision.
Just read this piece and if one actually reads it carefully a pretty strong case can be made it really doesn't say at all what people are implying in this thread. In fact, the statment that "And if there is a disagreement between Reese and the head coach, Mara casts the tiebreaker" isn't a Mara quote but is a conclusion made by the author. What the article is also about is the roles played on the draft by people in the various position and what Mara appears to actually say himself is that Reese runs the room but if there is a confrontational disagreement his job is more of that of a peacemaker who takes the guys outside the room and settles them down. What is left unsaid is whether this in fact happened in the Reese-Coughlin era or whether he's there just in case you get a scenario like the Boisture-Reeves confrontation in 1995 or Accorsi-Fassel over Jurevicius-Alford in 1998. The other interesting thing Mara did say was that in the end the Giants resolve their disputes by sticking with their board and taking the highest rated player - and what I think is interesting - the guy with the most upside. Have a great night.
The Colts offense. Coughlin wanted to open up the passing game as the end of the ground and pound era was approaching in the NFL. Remember his 'this is now a passing league' rant when talking about taking Nicks and Beckum. The idea wasn't just to use him as a TE, but at slot, when one of SS, Hixon or Nicks were off the field. In two TE sets with Boss. He was supposed to be their offensive weapon.
All this was stated on the day he was drafted by Pope. And at rookie camp. Pope, said he will be rarely used at TE due to his size. He was to be all over the field. Then Pope went on to try to teach him how to block and hilarity ensured.
Just read this piece and if one actually reads it carefully a pretty strong case can be made it really doesn't say at all what people are implying in this thread. In fact, the statment that "And if there is a disagreement between Reese and the head coach, Mara casts the tiebreaker" isn't a Mara quote but is a conclusion made by the author. What the article is also about is the roles played on the draft by people in the various position and what Mara appears to actually say himself is that Reese runs the room but if there is a confrontational disagreement his job is more of that of a peacemaker who takes the guys outside the room and settles them down. What is left unsaid is whether this in fact happened in the Reese-Coughlin era or whether he's there just in case you get a scenario like the Boisture-Reeves confrontation in 1995 or Accorsi-Fassel over Jurevicius-Alford in 1998. The other interesting thing Mara did say was that in the end the Giants resolve their disputes by sticking with their board and taking the highest rated player - and what I think is interesting - the guy with the most upside. Have a great night.
But Reese doesn't run the room completely. Ross controls the board with Chris Mara. Reese is the Day 1 and day 2 guy with input from TC.
Per him, Ross, TC and Mara the scouts and position coaches are the day 3 guys including UDFAs. Ross polls the room. In fact, Reese and TC are out of the room doing interviews most of the time on day 3. Chris Mara was in Kentucky watching the Derby last year on Saturday.
Quote:
yet blame Reese?
You cannot fire the owner. Reese may be a figurehead.
He is
Please.
"don't fuck it up".
spends a lot of time evaluating draft picks and reading scouting reports. The destruction of the Young-era setup started when Jerrah Lite wanted a Super Bowl in his brand-new stadium and was completed this year. We are back to 1964 organizationally.
Please.
I'm sure you're right that many would but that has no relevance about whether or not it is the smartest way to run a football team.
When I was a little boy I used to fantasize that somehow I was given the NY Giants and I can't say that if I were to own a professional team of any kind that I wouldn't want to be more involved than I should be for no other reason than it would be a blast! It has to be a lot of mens childhood dreams to own their own team of some sort one day. So sure many men given that chance would likley find themselves making some decisions regardless of the fact that they wouldn't be the best person able to do so. And fans would rightly be critical of that.
Please.
Most owners stay out of the way.
Quote:
As if you guys would stay out of the war room and stay silent were you the owner.
Please.
Most owners stay out of the way.
You have no way of knowing that, and thusly pure speculation on yout part.
Quote:
In comment 12928467 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:
As if you guys would stay out of the war room and stay silent were you the owner.
Please.
Most owners stay out of the way.
You have no way of knowing that, and thusly pure speculation on yout part.
and you have way of knowing if fans were owners if they wouldn't remain quiet too. Pure speculation on your part.
If you don't see the foolishness in knocking Chris/John Mara for being at the table during the decision making process - having spent their entire lives involved in the NFL - then I don't know what to tell you.
Each of them is infinitely more qualified than any of us amateur draftniks, and likely have more experience with contracts and players than many other FO execs around the league.
If you don't see the foolishness in knocking Chris/John Mara for being at the table during the decision making process - having spent their entire lives involved in the NFL - then I don't know what to tell you.
Each of them is infinitely more qualified than any of us amateur draftniks, and likely have more experience with contracts and players than many other FO execs around the league.
+1
Quote:
It makes sense that the guy writing the checks and spending the money would get more involved as the team has continually failed to make the playoffs. He should. You don't want an absentee owner. You want an owner that cares. Nobody seemed to mind the ownership situation when things were going well.
spends a lot of time evaluating draft picks and reading scouting reports. The destruction of the Young-era setup started when Jerrah Lite wanted a Super Bowl in his brand-new stadium and was completed this year. We are back to 1964 organizationally.
What's your story? Why are you so fucking dramatic? You spend half you time here bitching how Eli sucks, the owner is a "meddler", and Coughlin is the greatest HC the NFL has ever seen.
Please explain the "I hate the owner" schtick. I honestly want an answer from you. It's really silly. People still bitching because the team sucked in the FUCKING 70s. Get over it. Not all of us on this board are 70.
You sound like a crazy old man. (Which I'm pretty sure you are.)
What is the relevance of John Mara being more qualified than us fans to whether he should be actively involved in the draft selections?
I don't think most fans have a problem with his being involved in contracts.
However to assume that for no other reason than his father owned the team that he would also end up being one of the brightest football mind available is a stretch. Simple odds alone would dictate that from all the football people in the world there have to be a handful that would be far more talented at evaluating players than he. And maybe more importantly they would be held accountable if they weren't preforming at the highest level, where the owner is not, which then increase the likelihood that at some point he is under preforming.
On a side note and purely my personal experience and nothing more. The two times I worked for second or third generation ownership they were woefully bad at some of the things that were important to the position they inherited, and their businesses suffered for it.
If you don't see the foolishness in knocking Chris/John Mara for being at the table during the decision making process - having spent their entire lives involved in the NFL - then I don't know what to tell you.
Quite a few kids have been around their father's company and rode the coattails of others and too many of these drafts have been epic fails for years with John at the the helm while Chris texts in his vote to his nephew from the horse track.