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IMO, heading into this draft, our two biggest needs: WR, CB

Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/29/2016 7:33 am
You can just look at the depth chart and see these were our two most glaring needs. It wasn't even close.

Now, Apple may or may not have been worth the #10 pick in your mind, but the Giants (right or wrong) felt he was the best CB in the draft.

The good news? CB position addressed with another starter. Yes, the third CB is a starter. We don't have to rely on Trevis Wade or Leon McFadden or Tramain Jacobs as a starter now.
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RE: The OL was still the biggest need  
drkenneth : 4/29/2016 7:54 am : link
In comment 12931420 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
If they wanted to fix the secondary, then they needed to add to the pass rush.

Reese seems intent on building this defense from the rear backwards. That's why it was a bad pick and it remains a bad pick.

Defenses are built from the DL, then the LB then the Secondary. We seem intent on doing the reverse which is why we'll keep failing IMO.


Did we not just add players to the DL via free agency? Or did I dream that? I'm not sure.
RE: we've invested tens of millions  
M.S. : 4/29/2016 7:54 am : link
In comment 12931407 dep026 said:
Quote:
On defense in the offseason. We took a defensive player with the number 10 pick who will be a nickel corner at best this year.

Meanwhile our Offense has more holes than swiss cheese. And our biggest need is OT. The assumption that flowers has the LT position locked down is a very risky game.


Absolutely dead on... you nailed it with this!!!
agree with Eric - and I think WR will be our #2 pick unless  
Del Shofner : 4/29/2016 7:55 am : link
there's one of those screaming "value" situations at another position.
RE: The OL was still the biggest need  
M.S. : 4/29/2016 7:56 am : link
In comment 12931420 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
If they wanted to fix the secondary, then they needed to add to the pass rush.

Reese seems intent on building this defense from the rear backwards. That's why it was a bad pick and it remains a bad pick.

Defenses are built from the DL, then the LB then the Secondary. We seem intent on doing the reverse which is why we'll keep failing IMO.


Like dep026... this is dead on correct. Absolutely. Perfectly said.
think all of our corners  
bc4life : 4/29/2016 7:58 am : link
will look bttter with an improved pass rush. people are forgetting how anemic the pass rush was last year for most of the season. Healthier JPP, Vernon, and a healthy Odi - could really turn D around.

There are reasons to knock Reese but the off season plan makes sense. And, the Titans taking Conklin was the only thing that pissed me off yesterday.
needed to add to pass rush  
bc4life : 4/29/2016 7:59 am : link
what about JPP and Vernon - do those moves count?
Eric, the Dolphins were taking Apple at 13  
George from PA : 4/29/2016 7:59 am : link
I have a family member that works for the Dolphins and he called me to tell me that....
wouldn't bet on wr in 2nd round  
bc4life : 4/29/2016 8:13 am : link
might see another defensive player.
The Giants are not going to fill every need  
AnnapolisMike : 4/29/2016 8:14 am : link
with this draft. The Giants are a better team after last nights pick. They would have been better if Conklin had made it to them as well. I doubt you wanted to give up a pick to move up and grab Conklin.

You can make do and scheme around a shakey OL. Not so much for your defensive backfield. Hopefully we see a WR or T/G today that can help out immediately.
Shepard would be perfect  
jlukes : 4/29/2016 8:14 am : link
.
They got the CB  
illmatic : 4/29/2016 8:14 am : link
Now it's time to go get Boyd.
Eric....  
Reb8thVA : 4/29/2016 8:16 am : link
I agree with you on the WR. We got nothing after OBJ. We desperately need a receiver opposite him. Maybe Cruz returns and makes a contribution but we can't count on it.

I probably would rate RT higher than CB. I agree we needed a third CB but I feel we could have waited to the third round and drafted a Will Redmond to play the nickle role. If they put a premium on Apple because they want to replace DRC well to me that is just spinning our wheels. I'm tired of simply replacing roster personnel and not getting better in other areas. I actually have less issues with Apple than I do with the entire off season strategy.

On the right side of the OL we have back ups starting, which means we will have back ups backing up the back ups. We still have a lot of cash under the cap, Reese could have made an aggressive play for a RT early on in FA in addition to Jenkins, Vernon, and Harrison but he chose not to. He could have gone after Mitchell Schwartz or Osemele but we know from Hitdog they weren't even on the radar scope. He looks into Okung who doesn't want to play RT and Penn, who we maybe could have gotten earlier if we were more aggressive, decides to stay in Oakland, despite the Raiders signing Osemele. So, we were forced to rely on the draft and it didn't break our way. Any one who has been following the run up to this draft knows there is a precipitous drop in OT options after the first round. Guards there may be more options but not so much at RT.

The defense was atrocious last year but equally as bad was our four minute offense and our glaring inability to run the ball when needed. Also until we find a way to keep the Eagles from harassing our QB, I find it difficult to envision this team better than 8-8
I think the Giants end up with  
Jon in NYC : 4/29/2016 8:19 am : link
Anthony Davis before all is said and done.
Picks  
Dragon : 4/29/2016 8:21 am : link
We still have five even more if they want to give picks for 2017 the real key is to get quality players in those five or more picks. This may not be a special draft but this is a team looking to replace a ton of JAG on the roster. Even five more picks will not solve all the problems then we need to be great in the UDFA we sign if we only sign six that's fine but they need to be guys with a real chance to be NFL players.
The fact of matter is...  
Capt. Don : 4/29/2016 8:21 am : link
going into the draft we had/have at least three glaring holes and other positions of need. We addressed one of the biggest holes in round one.

At the risk of stating hte obvious, we only had one 1st round pick. We are not done and for this to be a productive season we are going to have to get some serious contributors from the middle rounds.
RE: Eric....  
M.S. : 4/29/2016 8:21 am : link
In comment 12931507 Reb8thVA said:
Quote:
I agree with you on the WR. We got nothing after OBJ. We desperately need a receiver opposite him. Maybe Cruz returns and makes a contribution but we can't count on it.

I probably would rate RT higher than CB. I agree we needed a third CB but I feel we could have waited to the third round and drafted a Will Redmond to play the nickle role. If they put a premium on Apple because they want to replace DRC well to me that is just spinning our wheels. I'm tired of simply replacing roster personnel and not getting better in other areas. I actually have less issues with Apple than I do with the entire off season strategy.

On the right side of the OL we have back ups starting, which means we will have back ups backing up the back ups. We still have a lot of cash under the cap, Reese could have made an aggressive play for a RT early on in FA in addition to Jenkins, Vernon, and Harrison but he chose not to. He could have gone after Mitchell Schwartz or Osemele but we know from Hitdog they weren't even on the radar scope. He looks into Okung who doesn't want to play RT and Penn, who we maybe could have gotten earlier if we were more aggressive, decides to stay in Oakland, despite the Raiders signing Osemele. So, we were forced to rely on the draft and it didn't break our way. Any one who has been following the run up to this draft knows there is a precipitous drop in OT options after the first round. Guards there may be more options but not so much at RT.

The defense was atrocious last year but equally as bad was our four minute offense and our glaring inability to run the ball when needed. Also until we find a way to keep the Eagles from harassing our QB, I find it difficult to envision this team better than 8-8


Another dead-on post.

Very well played!
I've always thought that the OL desperation was overblown  
Bill L : 4/29/2016 8:28 am : link
not that what we have is good or that we don't know improvement, but because we have actual data and know that we are starting from a pretty high statistical baseline. At least that is true wrt pass protection and Eli's (Manning) ability to get throws off. Maybe not so true for the run game but nobody really knows how much to attribute to poor run blocking versus the committee scheme. Plus the left side is darn good and is only going to get better because the flaws were lack of experience from the center leftward and also Flowers' knee. Plus, unlike for the passing game, you can actually run left-handed.

And I can see the value in a a 3rd CB. That's a starter and we have dross (although I have to think that among the three or four ersatz FS candidates, at least one might be a serviceable CB). Still, its a decent need.

However, the gap up in desperate need from the CB to the WR spot is Grand Canyon-sized. I still feel that there is nothing, nada, zilch left in FA that could fill it effectively and I don't think that there is enough left in the draft to help us this year. We need an impact person and a person who can not only hold the fort but shine if/when OBJ loses time to injury or suspension. I am unshakeable that this is a fatal flaw for this team, no matter who we draft in any spot last night or going forward. For all his flaws, and they were legion, Ruben Randle plus the FA we signed plus this draft gave us divisional championship potential. Now, I feel that, no matter who we draft, next season we are unlikely to be better than who were we this past December.
Lets not forget that we still have more cap space  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 4/29/2016 8:30 am : link
then we normally have going into a season. The holes that aren't filled now (particularly at WR) could still be filled with late free agency players. That isn't a long term plan as the decent free agents still out there are on the older side, but it gets you through to the next draft. We aren't going to fill all of the holes in this team in one draft.
You can spin the RT issue however you want  
gidiefor : Mod : 4/29/2016 8:35 am : link
Conklin - who was the Giants target - was off the Board and coveted by more than just the Giants -- Tunsil had issues -- and it wasn;t just the pot pictures - well before the pot picture was posted the Giants were spinning a lack of interest in him and he has a questionable work ethic and home life -- so who was there for the Giants to pick at RT in the 10th spot

they too a world class athlete in Apple - and CB is a premium position - and the Giants had him rated higher than Hargreaves who was ranked generally as a top 10 prospect

unfortunately, the prospects in round 2 don;t look great for RT either - so more than likely - and I'm not saying the Giants don't need a RT - but more than likely the value isn;t there.

there are a number of ways to go in round 2 -- there is a good WR still on the board -- we'll see if he's there when the Giants pick -- but there are still some great options available if not -- You can always use a good player

very good DTs will be available at 40 by the way

Agree on CB need and WR need  
SomeFan : 4/29/2016 8:38 am : link
I would like to see us take either thomas or shephard in round 2
With a clear #1 already on the team, I didn't see WR as a 1st rd need  
njm : 4/29/2016 8:41 am : link
There are WRs available in the next 2 rounds who can fill the #2 role.

CB's a different story, particularly for a 3 or 4 year perspective.

From the looks of things the Giants can help themselves this Friday at DT, OG, WR and possibly TE, although I no doubt Hunter Henry lasts until #40.

We'll see what happens.
RE: we've invested tens of millions  
Big Blue '56 : 4/29/2016 8:44 am : link
In comment 12931407 dep026 said:
Quote:
On defense in the offseason. We took a defensive player with the number 10 pick who will be a nickel corner at best this year.

Meanwhile our Offense has more holes than swiss cheese. And our biggest need is OT. The assumption that flowers has the LT position locked down is a very risky game.


You do know that nickel corner is effectively a starter in today's pass happy league, yes? He will see SIGNIFICANT playing time this year imo..It's one of the most underrated "starting' positions on a team, imv..It's importance nowadays is huge..
At this point, I'm punting on WRs in this draft  
Bill L : 4/29/2016 8:45 am : link
we've already got lots of JAGS. I guess you could argue an older FA but I am skeptical even that is going to bring us up to a full nfl quality starting eleven. I would still do and my preference would be, to do trade even with multiple picks in this draft and now including next year's #1, for a top 10 -15 youngish vet WR.
Reb  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/29/2016 8:49 am : link
I hear you but Conklin was gone and Tunsil was not a consideration.

So they took the best CB (in their view) of the entire draft.

Our defense was the third worst in NFL history. Let that sink in for a moment.
RE: At this point, I'm punting on WRs in this draft  
Big Blue '56 : 4/29/2016 8:50 am : link
In comment 12931628 Bill L said:
Quote:
we've already got lots of JAGS. I guess you could argue an older FA but I am skeptical even that is going to bring us up to a full nfl quality starting eleven. I would still do and my preference would be, to do trade even with multiple picks in this draft and now including next year's #1, for a top 10 -15 youngish vet WR.


31, patience buddy..:)
Ha! Like Eli (Manning)  
Bill L : 4/29/2016 8:51 am : link
my window is closing.
RE: Reb  
dep026 : 4/29/2016 8:54 am : link
In comment 12931647 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I hear you but Conklin was gone and Tunsil was not a consideration.

So they took the best CB (in their view) of the entire draft.

Our defense was the third worst in NFL history. Let that sink in for a moment.


Lot of resources went into in FA. I know you have said things about DRC's future, so this is why Apple better pan out. Not only is he needed now, he will expect to start next year plus we have issues on the other side of the ball. While the pick makes sense - it's still a very risky one.
RE: Reb  
Reb8thVA : 4/29/2016 8:54 am : link
In comment 12931647 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I hear you but Conklin was gone and Tunsil was not a consideration.

So they took the best CB (in their view) of the entire draft.

Our defense was the third worst in NFL history. Let that sink in for a moment.


I knew Tunsil wasn't going to be in consideration. They are content with Flowers at LT and taking Tunsil with the baggage wasn't going to happen. I'm fine with that. I really have nothing against the Apple selection. Its just the whole off-season strategy that I am perplexed by.
Bill - WR's still available who could assum the #2 role for the Giants  
njm : 4/29/2016 8:57 am : link
Of course IMHO, but the list is fairly long:

Michael Thomas - Ohio State
Sterling Shepard - Oklahoma
Pharoh Cooper - South Carolina
Tyler Boyd - Pitt
Leonte Carroo - Rutgers

None of them are the second coming of ODB, but they don't have to be.
I think if they select a DT in the second I will throw the remote.....  
Reb8thVA : 4/29/2016 8:57 am : link
We just spent $9 million on a run stuffing DT in FA, and used a 2nd round and third round pick on DTs in two of the last three drafts. And people want to complain about the over investment in the OL
RE: I think if they select a DT in the second I will throw the remote.....  
dep026 : 4/29/2016 8:59 am : link
In comment 12931687 Reb8thVA said:
Quote:
We just spent $9 million on a run stuffing DT in FA, and used a 2nd round and third round pick on DTs in two of the last three drafts. And people want to complain about the over investment in the OL


Spnece is the only DE I would even consider for the line in the 2nd round because of the upside. I know people like Dodd, but Spence was big time recruit, and produced at both schools. Sure he has character issues, but sometimes you gotta take a chance.
I'm fine with taking  
Reb8thVA : 4/29/2016 9:09 am : link
and Edge Rusher, just not another DT.
Dodd has as much upside as any DE in the draft  
Greg from LI : 4/29/2016 9:12 am : link
He's far from a sure thing, but there are two good signs - he improved throughout the season, playing his best ball at the end of the year in the biggest game, and he's known as a very hard worker.
should still take bpa  
bc4life : 4/29/2016 9:18 am : link
I would be okay with Billings. Could be best DT in the draft.
RE: Are you ok  
dg901 : 4/29/2016 9:29 am : link
In comment 12931356 Reb8thVA said:
Quote:
With Jerry and Newhouse on the right side of the OL

Didn't like seeing Ifedi go to Seattle but it still leaves Sprigs in RD #2.
WR?  
Doomster : 4/29/2016 9:31 am : link
Think of fourth quarter drives that died when Eli went to Randle on third downs.....

So far Reese, has gone all out on defense......the defense should be better, but still a glaring need at safety.....

Offense, we scored a lot of points playing catch up, in the NO games and Car games.....when we needed to score, or control the clock and keep the defense off the field, we came up woefully short....not to mention the brain farts we had on play calling/execution......

The offense is basically, a one trick pony of Eli to OBj....there are no other weapons......and unless there is some improvement on the right side of the line, via draft or other teams castoffs, this offense will come up short again....like it did in the Dallas, Atlanta, New England, Washington, Jets, and Vikings games...
Plenty of Defense left on the board  
Bluesbreaker : 4/29/2016 9:42 am : link
then there is
Jason Spriggs OT
Henry Hunter TE
Cody Whitehair OG
Sterling Sheppard WR
Michael Thomas WR
One would think they have to be considered .
Not getting a FA OT or WR or FS is a bit of a
head scratchier .
I was Ok with CB at one as a contingency
but now that the Dust has settled this Kid Apple
needs to be a Star .
Eric  
PaulN : 4/29/2016 9:49 am : link
Thanks, it makes sense, the problem around here is people read a little, look at all the mocks, and a little film on players and actually think they can know what is best. I thought the pick would be Hargreaves and would have had no problem with him as the pick, nobody would have.

But since the mocks projected him at about 20, they scream it is a reach. I was surprised, but I have to give the Giants scouts and organization the benefit of the doubt. The thing about Hargreaves was that he was a little slow and small, and may be best at slot corner, Apple will eventually be a starting corner, he is only 20 years old, will help out at slot this season, and be our eventual starting corner.

If it were me making the pick, I would have thought about Rankins there also, but I can live with a corner.

RE: WR?  
averagejoe : 4/29/2016 9:49 am : link
In comment 12931855 Doomster said:
Quote:
Think of fourth quarter drives that died when Eli went to Randle on third downs.....

So far Reese, has gone all out on defense......the defense should be better, but still a glaring need at safety.....

Offense, we scored a lot of points playing catch up, in the NO games and Car games.....when we needed to score, or control the clock and keep the defense off the field, we came up woefully short....not to mention the brain farts we had on play calling/execution......

The offense is basically, a one trick pony of Eli to OBj....there are no other weapons......and unless there is some improvement on the right side of the line, via draft or other teams castoffs, this offense will come up short again....like it did in the Dallas, Atlanta, New England, Washington, Jets, and Vikings games...


Agree with everything. Giants could not get the TD to put games away in spite of our crappy defense. We have no red zone threats and very little besides OBJ to worry an DC.

It HAS to be WR in rd two. Shepard ? Boyd? Peake?
RE: The OL was still the biggest need  
Gmaniac1 : 4/29/2016 9:53 am : link
In comment 12931420 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
If they wanted to fix the secondary, then they needed to add to the pass rush.

Reese seems intent on building this defense from the rear backwards. That's why it was a bad pick and it remains a bad pick.

Defenses are built from the DL, then the LB then the Secondary. We seem intent on doing the reverse which is why we'll keep failing IMO.

^ This is absolutely ridiculous.

The Giants have spent a ton of resources on the D-Line this off-season and have routinely invested resources such as high draft picks in this area in the past several years.

Let's get a grip, people.
Coughlin  
PaulN : 4/29/2016 9:55 am : link
Was killed last season because of the way he managed games at the end and so many games we seemed to blow, had we had a decent defense, you think Coughlin would have played it so aggressively? It was out of character, but he thought necessary to win games.

With a good defense, or a more reliable defense, he would have stuck with the running game more and trusted our defense if we didn't get the first down, instead of gambling the way he did. It was all due to a horrible defense. Just look at Denver and Seattle the year before the New England miracle. Defense still wins in this pass happy every advantage we can give to the offense league.
Shepard will be my  
dune69 : 4/29/2016 9:55 am : link
wish in rd 2
I think  
PaulN : 4/29/2016 9:58 am : link
The Giants are really counting on Owa to be a good player this season, he has looked good so far in mini camp. JPP should be much better and we got Vernon and Snacks, how are we not building the defense from up front? JPP, Snacks, Hankins, and Vernon is not a good front?
2 points  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 4/29/2016 10:34 am : link
1. No matter how much you guys piss and moan about the OL, RT is not a premium position. They have their LT.

2. Some of us have been saying for months this pick would likely be a CB, WR, or DE. Many disregarded this.

The Giants likely felt Apple was the only player that carried the grade at one of those positions.

I didn't expect them to pick Apple at 10, but many of us expected them to have a high grade on him.

CB and RT were our biggest needs coming in to the Draft  
Torrag : 4/29/2016 10:44 am : link
There is a chance Cruz will play well which pushed WR and FS into a tie for #3 on the list.
RE: 2 points  
M.S. : 4/29/2016 1:52 pm : link
In comment 12932187 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
1. No matter how much you guys piss and moan about the OL, RT is not a premium position. They have their LT.

2. Some of us have been saying for months this pick would likely be a CB, WR, or DE. Many disregarded this.

The Giants likely felt Apple was the only player that carried the grade at one of those positions.

I didn't expect them to pick Apple at 10, but many of us expected them to have a high grade on him.


But do they really have their Left Tackle? Flowers gets beat with edge speed... he did so on a bad ankle in the pro game and on a good ankle in the college game. He's simply not the nimblest guy out their manning the left side gate. He's huge... and it ain't easy dancing quickly with a body like that.

In any event, it's still a mystery to me why Reese shot his mouth off a thousand times that they are set at LT with Ereck Flowers? That's giving away needless draft information in my opinion.
At this point  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 4/29/2016 1:57 pm : link
whether Flowers is ideal at LT is neither here nor there. The only part relevant to this conversation is that the Giants believe he is their LT.

Also, I want to amend my previous post. When I said DE I should have said edge rusher.
When you talk about depth at CB  
IIT : 4/29/2016 2:17 pm : link
And being one injury away from a real problem all I can think is what happens if Flowers or Pugh gets hurt? And linemen have a habit of getting banged up at the best of times.

Yes CB is thin, but your starting quarterback isn't going to get killed (and your team's chances along with it) if McFadden happens to be starting.

This is why, to me, OL was and is the most glaring need and why I was pissed they didn't take Tunsil warts and all.

If we don't address the line I'm gonna need the bong/gasmask to get through the season...
the FA spending spree didn't fix the defense  
BigBlueCane : 4/29/2016 2:18 pm : link
at either the CB position nor the DL spot.

Unless you believe both JPP and Hankins will bounce back to what they were at their best and that Bromley will actually contribute to the position.

Again the NYG defense was at its best when it had a relentless pass rush, not a secondary that was stacked.

I know the salary cap precludes teams from having both but what I'm saying is the Jints Front Office has chosen the wrong end to focus on.
We need to get Shapard or Whitehair today  
Jim Burt64 : 4/29/2016 2:28 pm : link
Shep will be a star one day.. and Whitey can also play T
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