IMO, heading into this draft, our two biggest needs: WR, CB

With Jerry and Newhouse on the right side of the OL

finally someone who thinks WR is a need.
I feel like no one remembers the Vikings game.
If they don't get a legit WR in this draft, they're really playing with fire.

In comment 12931356 Reb8thVA said:

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With Jerry and Newhouse on the right side of the OL

You know there are more rounds left in the draft, correct?

Moreso than Trevin Wade being our nickel and Leon McFadden being one injury from being our starter outside.

the other issue is Conklin was gone. There wasn't an OL there they felt was worthy of the #10 pick.

See the NYP article on Tunsil...there were other reasons he fell besides the drugs issue (which is huge in itself).

In comment 12931356 Reb8thVA said:

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With Jerry and Newhouse on the right side of the OL

I'm ok with Jerry there...because Ben McAdoo is ok with nim there.

I'm not ok with Newhouse there,because McAdoo has already stated he's depth and not a starter.

With that said If you are still talking about Tunsil you should really understand The Giants simply were not going to take a chance on him and his issues or what have you at 10. Chances are,they may not have even had a night grade on him.
Sy'56 for example had Tunsil with the same draft grade as Apple.

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the Giants aren't clearly thrilled with the right side of the line because they tried to address it in FA and would have taken Conklin last night.

But you do what you can do.

In comment 12931363 Eric from BBI said:

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Moreso than Trevin Wade being our nickel and Leon McFadden being one injury from being our starter outside.

I am not disagreeing with you but Bennett Jackson could be our slot corner. The problem arises if one of our top two corners miss time. I think we have players for the slot (not gret ones though) but I dont think we had a 3rd guy capable of playing on the edge. Yes, WR is a huge need. If we don't go WR at 2 then I am praying Caroo is there in the third.

In comment 12931372 jeff57 said:

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All needs. We're a bad team.

But WR and CB were clearly more glaring needs. And not even close. You can't scheme around a WR or CB.

looking at the depth chart, Corner was a screaming need. I think a higher need than WR. I think the Giants determined that Apple was better than the highest rated WR on their board so they went corner.

Again, the Giants draft BPA at a position of high need in round 1. It's not BPA as many like to spout on this board.

I think there is a high chance they go WR in round 2, although a player could fall in another position that they have graded much higher so they take.

Too many needs to address in one offseason. I'd rather try to tread water with Newhouse than any of those CBs getting extended playing time

In comment 12931376 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 12931372 jeff57 said: Quote: . All needs. We're a bad team. But WR and CB were clearly more glaring needs. And not even close. You can't scheme around a WR or CB.

I don't disagree. That's why I would have taken Hargreaves. Someone who"s pro ready on day one.

taking a chill pill and going back to Sy's and Dave's scouting reports it is clearly obvious Eli Apple is one of the top CBs in the draft. Dave-TE had him rated higher than Ramsey and much higher than Hargreaves and McKenzie.
6'1" and 200 lbs - good size. 4.4 40 - good speed.

...tactically, you are right.

But strategically... the NFL is a LOS game, and no WR or CB can help us close out a game like an offensive line that can control the clock at THE critical moment of the game. Or, a defensive front 7 that can make the crucial stop with the game on the line.

That's about four or five victories last year alone.

Wr and CB are much more tactical needs.

Like it or not the Giants view LT, WR, CB, and DE as the most important positions.

We got the LT last year. WR and CB were huge holes. DE needs depth also, but WR and CB are the biggest.

I'd bet on a WR in round 2 if the value is there.

On defense in the offseason. We took a defensive player with the number 10 pick who will be a nickel corner at best this year.

Meanwhile our Offense has more holes than swiss cheese. And our biggest need is OT. The assumption that flowers has the LT position locked down is a very risky game.

In comment 12931356 Reb8thVA said:

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With Jerry and Newhouse on the right side of the OL

I wanted OL bad at 10 but the top guys were gone. Tunsil has issues. Can't force an OL pick at 10.

Just hope they find a way to use Apple more than just a slot CB.

In comment 12931407 dep026 said:

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On defense in the offseason. We took a defensive player with the number 10 pick who will be a nickel corner at best this year. Meanwhile our Offense has more holes than swiss cheese. And our biggest need is OT. The assumption that flowers has the LT position locked down is a very risky game.

Dep- 3rd corner is a starter. If he gets us off the field on 3rd down, and takes over for DRC in 2017, is that not a good pick?

Apple has more size than Hargreaves. And you can't. Teach. That.

If they wanted to fix the secondary, then they needed to add to the pass rush.

Reese seems intent on building this defense from the rear backwards. That's why it was a bad pick and it remains a bad pick.

Defenses are built from the DL, then the LB then the Secondary. We seem intent on doing the reverse which is why we'll keep failing IMO.

In comment 12931420 BigBlueCane said:

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If they wanted to fix the secondary, then they needed to add to the pass rush. Reese seems intent on building this defense from the rear backwards. That's why it was a bad pick and it remains a bad pick. Defenses are built from the DL, then the LB then the Secondary. We seem intent on doing the reverse which is why we'll keep failing IMO.

Did we not just add players to the DL via free agency? Or did I dream that? I'm not sure.

In comment 12931407 dep026 said:

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On defense in the offseason. We took a defensive player with the number 10 pick who will be a nickel corner at best this year. Meanwhile our Offense has more holes than swiss cheese. And our biggest need is OT. The assumption that flowers has the LT position locked down is a very risky game.

Absolutely dead on... you nailed it with this!!!

there's one of those screaming "value" situations at another position.

In comment 12931420 BigBlueCane said:

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If they wanted to fix the secondary, then they needed to add to the pass rush. Reese seems intent on building this defense from the rear backwards. That's why it was a bad pick and it remains a bad pick. Defenses are built from the DL, then the LB then the Secondary. We seem intent on doing the reverse which is why we'll keep failing IMO.

Like dep026... this is dead on correct. Absolutely. Perfectly said.

will look bttter with an improved pass rush. people are forgetting how anemic the pass rush was last year for most of the season. Healthier JPP, Vernon, and a healthy Odi - could really turn D around.

There are reasons to knock Reese but the off season plan makes sense. And, the Titans taking Conklin was the only thing that pissed me off yesterday.

what about JPP and Vernon - do those moves count?

I have a family member that works for the Dolphins and he called me to tell me that....

might see another defensive player.

with this draft. The Giants are a better team after last nights pick. They would have been better if Conklin had made it to them as well. I doubt you wanted to give up a pick to move up and grab Conklin.

You can make do and scheme around a shakey OL. Not so much for your defensive backfield. Hopefully we see a WR or T/G today that can help out immediately.

.

Now it's time to go get Boyd.

I agree with you on the WR. We got nothing after OBJ. We desperately need a receiver opposite him. Maybe Cruz returns and makes a contribution but we can't count on it.

I probably would rate RT higher than CB. I agree we needed a third CB but I feel we could have waited to the third round and drafted a Will Redmond to play the nickle role. If they put a premium on Apple because they want to replace DRC well to me that is just spinning our wheels. I'm tired of simply replacing roster personnel and not getting better in other areas. I actually have less issues with Apple than I do with the entire off season strategy.

On the right side of the OL we have back ups starting, which means we will have back ups backing up the back ups. We still have a lot of cash under the cap, Reese could have made an aggressive play for a RT early on in FA in addition to Jenkins, Vernon, and Harrison but he chose not to. He could have gone after Mitchell Schwartz or Osemele but we know from Hitdog they weren't even on the radar scope. He looks into Okung who doesn't want to play RT and Penn, who we maybe could have gotten earlier if we were more aggressive, decides to stay in Oakland, despite the Raiders signing Osemele. So, we were forced to rely on the draft and it didn't break our way. Any one who has been following the run up to this draft knows there is a precipitous drop in OT options after the first round. Guards there may be more options but not so much at RT.

The defense was atrocious last year but equally as bad was our four minute offense and our glaring inability to run the ball when needed. Also until we find a way to keep the Eagles from harassing our QB, I find it difficult to envision this team better than 8-8

Anthony Davis before all is said and done.

We still have five even more if they want to give picks for 2017 the real key is to get quality players in those five or more picks. This may not be a special draft but this is a team looking to replace a ton of JAG on the roster. Even five more picks will not solve all the problems then we need to be great in the UDFA we sign if we only sign six that's fine but they need to be guys with a real chance to be NFL players.

going into the draft we had/have at least three glaring holes and other positions of need. We addressed one of the biggest holes in round one.

At the risk of stating hte obvious, we only had one 1st round pick. We are not done and for this to be a productive season we are going to have to get some serious contributors from the middle rounds.

In comment 12931507 Reb8thVA said:

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I agree with you on the WR. We got nothing after OBJ. We desperately need a receiver opposite him. Maybe Cruz returns and makes a contribution but we can't count on it. I probably would rate RT higher than CB. I agree we needed a third CB but I feel we could have waited to the third round and drafted a Will Redmond to play the nickle role. If they put a premium on Apple because they want to replace DRC well to me that is just spinning our wheels. I'm tired of simply replacing roster personnel and not getting better in other areas. I actually have less issues with Apple than I do with the entire off season strategy. On the right side of the OL we have back ups starting, which means we will have back ups backing up the back ups. We still have a lot of cash under the cap, Reese could have made an aggressive play for a RT early on in FA in addition to Jenkins, Vernon, and Harrison but he chose not to. He could have gone after Mitchell Schwartz or Osemele but we know from Hitdog they weren't even on the radar scope. He looks into Okung who doesn't want to play RT and Penn, who we maybe could have gotten earlier if we were more aggressive, decides to stay in Oakland, despite the Raiders signing Osemele. So, we were forced to rely on the draft and it didn't break our way. Any one who has been following the run up to this draft knows there is a precipitous drop in OT options after the first round. Guards there may be more options but not so much at RT. The defense was atrocious last year but equally as bad was our four minute offense and our glaring inability to run the ball when needed. Also until we find a way to keep the Eagles from harassing our QB, I find it difficult to envision this team better than 8-8

Another dead-on post.

Very well played!

not that what we have is good or that we don't know improvement, but because we have actual data and know that we are starting from a pretty high statistical baseline. At least that is true wrt pass protection and Eli's (Manning) ability to get throws off. Maybe not so true for the run game but nobody really knows how much to attribute to poor run blocking versus the committee scheme. Plus the left side is darn good and is only going to get better because the flaws were lack of experience from the center leftward and also Flowers' knee. Plus, unlike for the passing game, you can actually run left-handed.

And I can see the value in a a 3rd CB. That's a starter and we have dross (although I have to think that among the three or four ersatz FS candidates, at least one might be a serviceable CB). Still, its a decent need.

However, the gap up in desperate need from the CB to the WR spot is Grand Canyon-sized. I still feel that there is nothing, nada, zilch left in FA that could fill it effectively and I don't think that there is enough left in the draft to help us this year. We need an impact person and a person who can not only hold the fort but shine if/when OBJ loses time to injury or suspension. I am unshakeable that this is a fatal flaw for this team, no matter who we draft in any spot last night or going forward. For all his flaws, and they were legion, Ruben Randle plus the FA we signed plus this draft gave us divisional championship potential. Now, I feel that, no matter who we draft, next season we are unlikely to be better than who were we this past December.

then we normally have going into a season. The holes that aren't filled now (particularly at WR) could still be filled with late free agency players. That isn't a long term plan as the decent free agents still out there are on the older side, but it gets you through to the next draft. We aren't going to fill all of the holes in this team in one draft.

Conklin - who was the Giants target - was off the Board and coveted by more than just the Giants -- Tunsil had issues -- and it wasn;t just the pot pictures - well before the pot picture was posted the Giants were spinning a lack of interest in him and he has a questionable work ethic and home life -- so who was there for the Giants to pick at RT in the 10th spot

they too a world class athlete in Apple - and CB is a premium position - and the Giants had him rated higher than Hargreaves who was ranked generally as a top 10 prospect

unfortunately, the prospects in round 2 don;t look great for RT either - so more than likely - and I'm not saying the Giants don't need a RT - but more than likely the value isn;t there.

there are a number of ways to go in round 2 -- there is a good WR still on the board -- we'll see if he's there when the Giants pick -- but there are still some great options available if not -- You can always use a good player

very good DTs will be available at 40 by the way

I would like to see us take either thomas or shephard in round 2

There are WRs available in the next 2 rounds who can fill the #2 role.

CB's a different story, particularly for a 3 or 4 year perspective.

From the looks of things the Giants can help themselves this Friday at DT, OG, WR and possibly TE, although I no doubt Hunter Henry lasts until #40.

We'll see what happens.

In comment 12931407 dep026 said:

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On defense in the offseason. We took a defensive player with the number 10 pick who will be a nickel corner at best this year. Meanwhile our Offense has more holes than swiss cheese. And our biggest need is OT. The assumption that flowers has the LT position locked down is a very risky game.

You do know that nickel corner is effectively a starter in today's pass happy league, yes? He will see SIGNIFICANT playing time this year imo..It's one of the most underrated "starting' positions on a team, imv..It's importance nowadays is huge..

we've already got lots of JAGS. I guess you could argue an older FA but I am skeptical even that is going to bring us up to a full nfl quality starting eleven. I would still do and my preference would be, to do trade even with multiple picks in this draft and now including next year's #1, for a top 10 -15 youngish vet WR.

I hear you but Conklin was gone and Tunsil was not a consideration.

So they took the best CB (in their view) of the entire draft.

Our defense was the third worst in NFL history. Let that sink in for a moment.

In comment 12931628 Bill L said:

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we've already got lots of JAGS. I guess you could argue an older FA but I am skeptical even that is going to bring us up to a full nfl quality starting eleven. I would still do and my preference would be, to do trade even with multiple picks in this draft and now including next year's #1, for a top 10 -15 youngish vet WR.

31, patience buddy..:)

my window is closing.

In comment 12931647 Eric from BBI said:

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I hear you but Conklin was gone and Tunsil was not a consideration. So they took the best CB (in their view) of the entire draft. Our defense was the third worst in NFL history. Let that sink in for a moment.

Lot of resources went into in FA. I know you have said things about DRC's future, so this is why Apple better pan out. Not only is he needed now, he will expect to start next year plus we have issues on the other side of the ball. While the pick makes sense - it's still a very risky one.

In comment 12931647 Eric from BBI said:

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I hear you but Conklin was gone and Tunsil was not a consideration. So they took the best CB (in their view) of the entire draft. Our defense was the third worst in NFL history. Let that sink in for a moment.

I knew Tunsil wasn't going to be in consideration. They are content with Flowers at LT and taking Tunsil with the baggage wasn't going to happen. I'm fine with that. I really have nothing against the Apple selection. Its just the whole off-season strategy that I am perplexed by.

Of course IMHO, but the list is fairly long:

Michael Thomas - Ohio State
Sterling Shepard - Oklahoma
Pharoh Cooper - South Carolina
Tyler Boyd - Pitt
Leonte Carroo - Rutgers

None of them are the second coming of ODB, but they don't have to be.