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DAVE TE-EXTENSIVE ELI APPLE SCOUTING REPORT

nflscouting : 4/29/2016 8:41 am
Okay guys, I told you this kid was a stud, but who would have thought that Big Blue would go this route. Still, we touted him as the best CB in the draft (Ramsey was our top FS). Do you want the kitchen sink on this kid? Well, go check out his profile & complete scouting report (much more info than the one in the position analysis)here;

http://nfldraftreport.sportsblog.com/posts/16870661/the-nfl-draft-report-s--final-analysis--series---the-big-apple-welcomes-eli-apple-to-the-big-blue-family.html


The NFL Draft Report's - ( New Window )
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@nflscouting  
napoleon : 4/29/2016 9:37 am : link
This is great work man. Thank you!
RE: PI/Holding?  
DonQuixote : 4/29/2016 9:38 am : link
In comment 12931833 nflscouting said:
Quote:
Officially, Apple was called for pass interference just once - vs. Western Michigan. He also had just two holding calls, one vs. WMU & another in the Fiesta Bowl.
Probably no concern for his coach though, as he was named the MVP of the game (held Will Fuller to one catch for 5 yards before they switched him off & Fuller caught 5 vs. Bell) & he made 9 plays vs. the pass vs. WMU, killing one drive on 4th down & two on third down.
If that is PI/holding problems, I can live with it

Nick43, maybe you could respond to these points with your analysis of the PI issue? Thought not
Nice write up & thanks  
YahBoo33 : 4/29/2016 9:40 am : link
for sharing.
I truly hope others here will take the time to read and help with the whining & fallacies going around.

Thanks again!
All the picks are a crap shoot  
arniefez : 4/29/2016 9:45 am : link
But it's horrible business in the NFL for the rest of the league to know enough about your board to trade in front of you to grab the guys you had targeted.

Hopefully this kid is a good player and stays healthy. The Giants needed another starting CB. Teams need at least 3. This kid is fast and the Giants really need fast on defense. Haven't we seen enough of horrible CB play the last few years when Prince inevitably missed his half the season?

I think since the Giants were so transparent on Floyd (who I'm happy they didn't draft but what do I know) and Conklin (who I really wanted to be the pick but what do I know) people freaked out when they took a guy who no one had going that high in mock drafts (but what do they know). It did seem like the Giants were unprepared for the situation they found themselves in.

I would have been happy to trade down for a 2nd or 3rd and take Decker from OSU or even Fuller from ND or the kid the Jets drafted.
RE: PI/Holding?  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 4/29/2016 9:52 am : link
In comment 12931833 nflscouting said:
Quote:
Officially, Apple was called for pass interference just once - vs. Western Michigan. He also had just two holding calls, one vs. WMU & another in the Fiesta Bowl.
Probably no concern for his coach though, as he was named the MVP of the game (held Will Fuller to one catch for 5 yards before they switched him off & Fuller caught 5 vs. Bell) & he made 9 plays vs. the pass vs. WMU, killing one drive on 4th down & two on third down.
If that is PI/holding problems, I can live with it


Awesome response. Always love facts over hyperbole.
Apple Holding  
nflscouting : 4/29/2016 10:01 am : link
The thing is, anyone that knows me knows that I am stats oriented. I have EVERY freaking play by play chart on EVERY freaking college team since 1973. I LUV when media types try to look smart, like that one writer saying a "unanimous scout" says he would not draft Apple because he can't cook. First, have the cahones to stamp your name on something as idiotic as what that scout said. Oh, back to the penalties. The chart says;
Western Michigan;
2q 654 PEN
4-9 WMU 02 Clock 06:12, [Shotgun], SCHROEDER, J. punt 54 yards to the OSU44, Marshall, Jalin return
6 yards to the 50 yardline (ERNSBERGER, Donnie), PENALTY OSU illegal block declined,
PENALTY OSU holding (Apple, Eli) 10 yards to the OSU40, 1st and 10, OSU ball on OSU40.
3 plays, 1 yard, 0:59
2q 402 TFL
2-17 WMU 18 Clock 03:25, TERRELL, Zach pass complete to BRAVERMAN, Daniel for loss of 3 yards to the
WMU15 (Apple, Eli), PENALTY WMU illegal block declined.
3q 1050 PEN-PI
3-9 OSU 11 TERRELL, Zach sideline pass incomplete to DAVIS, Corey, PENALTY OSU pass interference X16
(Apple, Eli) 9 yards to the OSU2, 1ST DOWN WMU, NO PLAY.

NOTRE DAME
3q 300
4-6 ND09 NEWSOME, Tyler punt 59 yards to the OSU32, Marshall, Jalin return 14 yards to the OSU46 (HUNTER JR,Torii),
PENALTY OSU holding (Apple, Eli) 10 yards to the OSU36, 1st and 10, OSU ball on OSU36.
3 plays, 4 yards, 1:36

SO- TO RECAP - two holding penalties on SPECIAL TEAMS, not defense & one pass interference call in a 38-12 victory. What do you think guys, can we put that issue to bed & move on?
Typo  
Torn Tendon : 4/29/2016 10:06 am : link
" he's a mater at reading quarterback's eyes"

2nd to last sentence, 1st paragraph
Typo  
nflscouting : 4/29/2016 10:07 am : link
Thanks eagle eye! correcting now, sort of an OCDer myself!
you do realize  
BigBlueCane : 4/29/2016 10:11 am : link
that collegiate officiating and NFL refs are worlds apart on the things they call?
RE: Typo  
Torn Tendon : 4/29/2016 10:14 am : link
In comment 12932047 nflscouting said:
Quote:
Thanks eagle eye! correcting now, sort of an OCDer myself!


I could just see the over reactors on BBI quoting it, saying you think he's a 'tomato'. Then they'd act like that's a common scouting term for a guy.
RE: you do realize  
Torn Tendon : 4/29/2016 10:16 am : link
In comment 12932071 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
that collegiate officiating and NFL refs are worlds apart on the things they call?

With what Norman gets away with, Apple should be fine.
Great contribution  
Bill2 : 4/29/2016 10:25 am : link
Thank you Dave
Torn Tendon  
nflscouting : 4/29/2016 10:31 am : link
You gave me my first smile for the day & yes, I would have heard about the error, for certain!
RE: PI/Holding?  
cnewk : 4/29/2016 10:32 am : link
In comment 12931833 nflscouting said:
Quote:
Officially, Apple was called for pass interference just once - vs. Western Michigan. He also had just two holding calls, one vs. WMU & another in the Fiesta Bowl.
Probably no concern for his coach though, as he was named the MVP of the game (held Will Fuller to one catch for 5 yards before they switched him off & Fuller caught 5 vs. Bell) & he made 9 plays vs. the pass vs. WMU, killing one drive on 4th down & two on third down.
If that is PI/holding problems, I can live with it


I was just watching the video with all his targets that Eric posted on the transcript page. I looks like Apple had a PI and a holding in the Indiana game as well.
watchung highlights it looks like he avoids contact  
gtt350 : 4/29/2016 10:32 am : link
in support. NOt the hard hitter as described in his review. please advise
Dave, thanks for the analysis......  
Simms11 : 4/29/2016 10:48 am : link
Really great job and more encouraging now as I can see other aspects of his game that are very good.
Just get another pass rusher and this defense  
ANGPASS : 4/29/2016 11:17 am : link
is good enough. I would sacrifice a WR for Jack and still go for a Pass Rusher in round 3.

RE: All the picks are a crap shoot  
rich in DC : 4/29/2016 11:17 am : link
In comment 12931926 arniefez said:
Quote:
But it's horrible business in the NFL for the rest of the league to know enough about your board to trade in front of you to grab the guys you had targeted.

Hopefully this kid is a good player and stays healthy. The Giants needed another starting CB. Teams need at least 3. This kid is fast and the Giants really need fast on defense. Haven't we seen enough of horrible CB play the last few years when Prince inevitably missed his half the season?

I think since the Giants were so transparent on Floyd (who I'm happy they didn't draft but what do I know) and Conklin (who I really wanted to be the pick but what do I know) people freaked out when they took a guy who no one had going that high in mock drafts (but what do they know). It did seem like the Giants were unprepared for the situation they found themselves in.

I would have been happy to trade down for a 2nd or 3rd and take Decker from OSU or even Fuller from ND or the kid the Jets drafted.


Considering that Eric himself noted that hitdog had Apple as the pick BEFORE Floyd got drafted, have you even considered that Floyd was a media plant by the Giants to get someone to bite, get ahead of them to take the plant name and get the guy they REALLY wanted?

Think hard about this before responding- who are the two names that the media ran hard with before the draft for the Giants- Conklin and Floyd. Did you even hear Apple once from the Giants?

Maybe leaking isn't a problem for the front office- maybe they know what they are doing and conned the Titans and Bears into moving up to get just their real target- Apple.
Holy shit  
Canton : 4/29/2016 11:17 am : link
That analysis was extensive. I'm sold. He very well could've been top five next year in the draft. He left Ohio State as a Sophomore and is ONLY 20. We have a future stud. Thank you Jerry.
...  
christian : 4/29/2016 11:23 am : link
Said it last night and is worth repeating, if Jordan Ranaan tweets are the reason teams are moving up and down the draft board, Jerry Reese is not the GM anyone should be worrying about.
RE: RE: All the picks are a crap shoot  
Big Blue '56 : 4/29/2016 11:27 am : link
In comment 12932448 rich in DC said:
Quote:
In comment 12931926 arniefez said:


Quote:


But it's horrible business in the NFL for the rest of the league to know enough about your board to trade in front of you to grab the guys you had targeted.

Hopefully this kid is a good player and stays healthy. The Giants needed another starting CB. Teams need at least 3. This kid is fast and the Giants really need fast on defense. Haven't we seen enough of horrible CB play the last few years when Prince inevitably missed his half the season?

I think since the Giants were so transparent on Floyd (who I'm happy they didn't draft but what do I know) and Conklin (who I really wanted to be the pick but what do I know) people freaked out when they took a guy who no one had going that high in mock drafts (but what do they know). It did seem like the Giants were unprepared for the situation they found themselves in.

I would have been happy to trade down for a 2nd or 3rd and take Decker from OSU or even Fuller from ND or the kid the Jets drafted.



Considering that Eric himself noted that hitdog had Apple as the pick BEFORE Floyd got drafted, have you even considered that Floyd was a media plant by the Giants to get someone to bite, get ahead of them to take the plant name and get the guy they REALLY wanted?

Think hard about this before responding- who are the two names that the media ran hard with before the draft for the Giants- Conklin and Floyd. Did you even hear Apple once from the Giants?

Maybe leaking isn't a problem for the front office- maybe they know what they are doing and conned the Titans and Bears into moving up to get just their real target- Apple.


Fabulous post Rich, probably because I agree..:)
What about his man coverage...?  
BamaBlue : 4/29/2016 11:31 am : link
Last night Jon Gruden stated that Apple will be a 'penalty machine' in the NFL if he doesn't adapt to NFL style coverage with NFL receivers.
RE: RE: RE: All the picks are a crap shoot  
Rory : 4/29/2016 11:32 am : link
In comment 12932524 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 12932448 rich in DC said:


Quote:


In comment 12931926 arniefez said:


Quote:


But it's horrible business in the NFL for the rest of the league to know enough about your board to trade in front of you to grab the guys you had targeted.

Hopefully this kid is a good player and stays healthy. The Giants needed another starting CB. Teams need at least 3. This kid is fast and the Giants really need fast on defense. Haven't we seen enough of horrible CB play the last few years when Prince inevitably missed his half the season?

I think since the Giants were so transparent on Floyd (who I'm happy they didn't draft but what do I know) and Conklin (who I really wanted to be the pick but what do I know) people freaked out when they took a guy who no one had going that high in mock drafts (but what do they know). It did seem like the Giants were unprepared for the situation they found themselves in.

I would have been happy to trade down for a 2nd or 3rd and take Decker from OSU or even Fuller from ND or the kid the Jets drafted.



Considering that Eric himself noted that hitdog had Apple as the pick BEFORE Floyd got drafted, have you even considered that Floyd was a media plant by the Giants to get someone to bite, get ahead of them to take the plant name and get the guy they REALLY wanted?

Think hard about this before responding- who are the two names that the media ran hard with before the draft for the Giants- Conklin and Floyd. Did you even hear Apple once from the Giants?

Maybe leaking isn't a problem for the front office- maybe they know what they are doing and conned the Titans and Bears into moving up to get just their real target- Apple.



Fabulous post Rich, probably because I agree..:)


I remarked similar in another thread, I'm really beginning to believe that Apple was #2 on the board after Conklin. It makes sense
Michigan State  
KWALL2 : 4/29/2016 11:38 am : link
I watched it on DraftBreakdown. He had a PI Call declined because the guy caught the long pass on him.

He does seem to have a lot of contact down the field. But he looks good pressing. Physical player. He flies up to the ball on running plays and short passes.
RE: What about his man coverage...?  
rich in DC : 4/29/2016 11:39 am : link
In comment 12932552 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
Last night Jon Gruden stated that Apple will be a 'penalty machine' in the NFL if he doesn't adapt to NFL style coverage with NFL receivers.


Are you serious or just poking the naysayers- can't be sure.

Anyway, just in case you are serious, every year, dozens of DBs come from college to the pros. Every year, they learn that the NFL and college are called differently and adjust. That is part of the game.

Remember that what ESPN is doing is selling a product- draft coverage. People get tired of the "this guy is the best thing since sliced bread" coverage of every player.

I can't be the only person who noticed that ESPN made the decision to have Kiper be the guy to sing the player's praises and have Gruden be the one to point out flaws or things the player needs to work on.

I would also suggest to people that they go back and LISTEN to the ESPN broadcast as the commish announced the pick- you can hear Gruden say "nice pick" in an approving way. But, keep in mind that Gruden had an ESPN appointed role last night- to be the guy who pointed out that each prospect had something to work on.
The one major concern with Apple  
dpinzow : 4/29/2016 11:51 am : link
is that he doesn't completely trust his athleticism because he grabbed and held receivers constantly at the college level. He's never getting away with that in the big leagues. Our secondary coach is going to have to really work with him on what he can get away with in terms of holding and grabbing because he has all the physical tools to be a top 5 corner in the league
RE: The one major concern with Apple  
Johnny5 : 4/29/2016 11:54 am : link
In comment 12932692 dpinzow said:
Quote:
is that he doesn't completely trust his athleticism because he grabbed and held receivers constantly at the college level. He's never getting away with that in the big leagues. Our secondary coach is going to have to really work with him on what he can get away with in terms of holding and grabbing because he has all the physical tools to be a top 5 corner in the league

How many draft picks every year can start in the NFL without being coached up? I'll guess it's a preeeetty small number. And I definitely more comfortable with this pick than Floyd. Though that means a hill of beans.
RE: RE: you do realize  
dpinzow : 4/29/2016 11:57 am : link
In comment 12932103 Torn Tendon said:
Quote:
In comment 12932071 BigBlueCane said:


Quote:


that collegiate officiating and NFL refs are worlds apart on the things they call?


With what Norman gets away with, Apple should be fine.


Norman has the rep to get away with it. Apple has to develop a rep as a top NFL corner to earn that leeway
It was good reading. Especially game by game reports  
Jimmy Googs : 4/29/2016 11:57 am : link
of his cover assignments and how he performed against some of the WRs that are being drafted in the first few rounds.

I like the pick. He is a clearly skilled, and we needed a press corner and someone who can hold their own Day 1 in the slot and outside in the near future. I

Seemed to be a name that was forecasted more in the middle of Rd 1 but there was enough of "noise" last night with prospects that I wonder if the Giants just went as safe as possible.

We all want impact player when you talk about pick #10 but Apple is our guy so get on board...
where's the comparison chart?  
micky : 4/29/2016 12:00 pm : link
.
look at it this way  
SHO'NUFF : 4/29/2016 12:01 pm : link
we just drafted a 2017 Top 5 pick.
Thanks  
AcidTest : 4/29/2016 12:08 pm : link
again.
Dave Te'  
Marty866b : 4/29/2016 12:36 pm : link
Thanks man. It great having you here. I see you have the same enthusiasm for this as you did 30+ years ago. BTW, who do you like for the Giants today. I'm thinking Spriggs,Henry, Shepard in the second,and BPA in the 3rd.
They are NOT  
MotownGIANTS : 4/29/2016 12:49 pm : link
going to allow him to play 80s still DB.

So how good will he be using PROPER technique? Will he be a drive kept alive due to penalty magnet?


Looking at his time currently the answer is yes to being a magnet.

DB coaches have their work cut out....
so in short  
Boatie Warrant : 4/29/2016 12:49 pm : link
He is bigger, faster, stronger and statistically a better run defender and pass defender than Hargreaves (the guy many say should have been the pick if we had to have a CB)

Works for me
Tremendous article  
Gap92 : 4/29/2016 12:52 pm : link
Thanks for sharing. The more I read, the happier I am with the pick.
Everyone...  
Strip-Sack : 4/29/2016 1:09 pm : link
worried about PI calls and his tendency to grab should remember that they said the exact same thing about Prince when he was drafted and it wasn't a problem in the NFL as far as I can remember. The kid is 20 yrs old with things to learn and techniques to master, just as Mac said last night, this shouldn't surprise anyone as you can say that about ANY draft pick. I think the kid will be a great pick the more I read about him.
RE: PI/Holding?  
Carson53 : 4/29/2016 2:25 pm : link
In comment 12931833 nflscouting said:
Quote:
Officially, Apple was called for pass interference just once - vs. Western Michigan. He also had just two holding calls, one vs. WMU & another in the Fiesta Bowl.
Probably no concern for his coach though, as he was named the MVP of the game (held Will Fuller to one catch for 5 yards before they switched him off & Fuller caught 5 vs. Bell) & he made 9 plays vs. the pass vs. WMU, killing one drive on 4th down & two on third down.
If that is PI/holding problems, I can live with it
.

He does need to improve the usage of his hands, as I stated
previously I watched him play a lot. I still don't consider
him a top 10 pick. The way the NFL game is called now,
he will be called for holding penalties, unless he cleans that up. I don't consider him any 'master' at deciphering QB's eyes, or zones, sorry don't know what you were watching at OSU! You are entitled to your opinion though.


Grade-wise  
RAIN : 4/29/2016 2:27 pm : link
I'd be curious to see where Eli stacks up against guys from 2013 to now. Looking through the histories, Corners picked high have not really performed as their slots would dictate. Granted if they are avoided, they can't produce turnovers.. and will likely produce sacks.

Dave where would Apple have gone last year amongst Byron, Jones, Marcus Peters, and Kevin Johnson?

You never know how a draft pick is going to turn out  
Dinger : 4/29/2016 3:02 pm : link
but I'm glad they went with the bigger/taller CB. Loved prince but going against the taller wide recievers his talent couldn't overcome his lack of size.

Add in what seems to be a good 'character' pick and couldnt ask for too much more.....
Ash, the former OSU D Coordinator and New Rutgers HC,  
Simms11 : 4/29/2016 3:06 pm : link
was on with Francessa about an hour ago and he indicated that Apple was coached to grab and hold onto receivers. You can get away with it more in College FB. He went to say what a terrific kid he was and that he'll have no problems adjusting to the NFL and those rules. He's a good student of the game and a very good athlete.
RE: Ash, the former OSU D Coordinator and New Rutgers HC,  
Carson53 : 4/29/2016 3:19 pm : link
In comment 12933424 Simms11 said:
Quote:
was on with Francessa about an hour ago and he indicated that Apple was coached to grab and hold onto receivers. You can get away with it more in College FB. He went to say what a terrific kid he was and that he'll have no problems adjusting to the NFL and those rules. He's a good student of the game and a very good athlete.
.


Yes, you can get away with it more in CFB nowadays, agreed.
Ash also said they felt he was going to go at 13 to Miami.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/29/2016 3:41 pm : link
http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2016/04/rutgers_coach_chris_ash_on_eli_apples_transformati.html

"He thought he'd probably fall to the Dolphins (at 13)," Ash said, recounting the moment from Chicago the night before in a phone interview with NJ Advance Media. "The Dolphins really wanted him. To get the call at the 10 spot was really a shock to him
THANKS MARTY  
nflscouting : 4/29/2016 4:24 pm : link
Yup, having great fun here & just quit on the idiots over at Scout.com. Keystone Cops running that organization & they are a joke to the name
Well deserved sticky!  
Cruzin : 4/29/2016 4:54 pm : link

As always Dave, great job.
RE: THANKS MARTY  
Boatie Warrant : 4/29/2016 4:57 pm : link
In comment 12933729 nflscouting said:
Quote:
Yup, having great fun here & just quit on the idiots over at Scout.com. Keystone Cops running that organization & they are a joke to the name


I for one am super glad you are on BBI. Your write up is very extensive and indepth. Thank You
Great Report, Dave-Te'!  
JohnF : 4/29/2016 5:38 pm : link
Just a wonderful read, and a relief after all the negative vibes last night. Your remarks on Apple as a Safety really are interesting, though, and well worth re-reading.

I wonder if we'll see him take a major (even starting role) at Free Safety this year! His skill set seems perfect for that, based on your report. Heaven knows we could use someone to step out and claim that position, instead of the revolving door we've had.
To John F  
nflscouting : 4/29/2016 6:26 pm : link
A lot of times, when OSU went multiples in the secondary, they would shift Apple inside to team with Bell as the cover-2 safeties. Watch that kid hit - nice & low with good wrap-around ability. The big thing I like about him is that he devours tapes. As stories will start coming out, this kid, even at 5, was glued to watching DBs on TV. Revis was one of his faves, but he loved how Ike Taylor covered up his INT deficiencies by manning up like he was a linebacker. He's learning by observing & then going out & practicing it before applying in games. No, he's never going to be Charles Woodson in the flesh, but he's going to earn his money well.Are you an old-timer? If so, when you see Apple on the field, see if he does not move without hesitation & then think back to my man in the 80s, Mark Haynes
Got Something For You Next Week RAIN  
nflscouting : 4/29/2016 6:32 pm : link
Good idea Rain in your comment & I will post it next week. I'm a computer dummy & that darn blog is an SOB with charts, so I have to get someone smart in the office to make pictures of it. Well,, here is what I have - Apple's 2015 season comparison #s vs. those of the first round CBs from each year, 2013-15. No pun intended, but I guess we can call that my "comparing apples to oranges" report!
Old timer?  
JohnF : 4/30/2016 12:44 am : link
Well, I go back to Spider Lockhart and Pete Athas, so you might say I've seen the highs and the lows! Loved Mark Haynes, he was a real stud (though you can't play that way anymore with the new rules.)

Looking forward to Apple (and Shepard!)...now, let's see how good the coaching staff really is (teaching). We need to see players develop, not stagnate.
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