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Teams played nickel D 65% of the time in 2015

pjcas18 : 4/29/2016 9:02 am
so basically that means your 3rd CB plays more than most LB's and many DL. Enough with the "backup CB" nonsense.

So without an obvious nickel CB the Giants split that between Jayron Hosley (he played 45% of all defensive snaps in 2015) and Trevin Wade (he played 45% of all defensive snaps in 2015).

Additionally, and I'm not making some huge deal about it, but many of you may have noticed that DRC took himself out of seemingly every game for a few plays here and there. When he did, Wade assumed the #2 CB spot and Hosley played slot.

Teams noticed this:

Here is an example from the Saints game when DRC got turf in his eye and needed to have it flushed out. One play. Brees noticed immediately.

Quote:
...There was one play on Sunday when Giants cornerback Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie wasn't on the field. It went for a 26-yard touchdown reception by Saints wide receiver Brandin Cooks, the player Rodgers-Cromartie would've been covering.

Instead, cornerback Trevin Wade was beat off the line of scrimmage and couldn't catch Cooks. It put the Giants in a 14-7 hole. They went on to lose 52-49.


the only players on the entire defense to play more snaps than either Wade or Hosley were: DRC, Amukamara (in 11 games), Cullen Jenkins, Landon Collins, Merriweather, Ayers, Wynn and Casillas.

Like the player or not (I won't pretend to be an expert on these guys like others are - just go back and re-read the Beckham thread to see how much you all know), but the position you should have zero issue with.

Giants shored up the DL with a full season of JPP, the addition of Vernon, and Snacks. Replaced/upgrade Prince, and now strengthened the secondary even more.

Still work to do, no doubt about it but please try and remember your comments are here eternally, this and all other threads are saved somewhere, try not to look like an ass.

who's going to play the slot though?  
mphbullet36 : 4/29/2016 9:04 am : link
I like Apple as an outside corner I'm not sure he has the technique and play recognition to play the slot right now. It seems the pick was more of a eventually replacement for DRC than to play the slot.
RE: who's going to play the slot though?  
TyFromQueens : 4/29/2016 9:07 am : link
In comment 12931716 mphbullet36 said:
Quote:
I like Apple as an outside corner I'm not sure he has the technique and play recognition to play the slot right now. It seems the pick was more of a eventually replacement for DRC than to play the slot.


Jackrabbit has experience playing the slot and maybe be better suited to do so.

It's a good problem for Spags to have and he will figure it out!
The Giants believe  
pjcas18 : 4/29/2016 9:07 am : link
Apple can play the slot, he's got the size and speed for it. just needs to learn.
Good post pj..  
Big Blue '56 : 4/29/2016 9:09 am : link
I still would love Powers signed.
RE: The Giants believe  
mphbullet36 : 4/29/2016 9:14 am : link
In comment 12931729 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
Apple can play the slot, he's got the size and speed for it. just needs to learn.


size and speed are actually two non requirements for the slot IMO. Those are required for the outside because usually taller wide receivers play on the outside.

Quickness, technique, and play recognition our requirements for the slot. If I'm understanding Apple correctly he could use some development in the technique and play recognition department or he will be chasing guys all around...grabbing them and not finding the ball.

I think it would be a lot easier to move someone else in there TBH.
great post, pjcas  
deeee : 4/29/2016 9:14 am : link
glad there are at least a few around here with reason.
Apple will play  
averagejoe : 4/29/2016 9:15 am : link
a lot. He will have to. Giant DB's fall like leaves every year. Hope he can stay on the field because he is raw and will be learning on the job.
Great post - this was the worst of the counter-arguments  
jcn56 : 4/29/2016 9:17 am : link
to the pick. I don't know what Giants team anyone was watching that lead them to believe they were all set at corner after picking up Jenkins.
Do you have a cite for that stat?  
Justlurking : 4/29/2016 9:18 am : link
Can you link if so
RE: RE: The Giants believe  
pjcas18 : 4/29/2016 9:20 am : link
In comment 12931753 mphbullet36 said:
Quote:
In comment 12931729 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


Apple can play the slot, he's got the size and speed for it. just needs to learn.



size and speed are actually two non requirements for the slot IMO. Those are required for the outside because usually taller wide receivers play on the outside.

Quickness, technique, and play recognition our requirements for the slot. If I'm understanding Apple correctly he could use some development in the technique and play recognition department or he will be chasing guys all around...grabbing them and not finding the ball.

I think it would be a lot easier to move someone else in there TBH.

Not really true. It depends on the slot WR since they vary so widely from someone like a Wes Welker to someone like an Andre Johnson or Roddy White.

I don't think size and speed are two "have to haves" to play slot CB, but my mentioning them wasn't to say he's perfect for slot, but more to say he's got the size and speed to play anywhere.

does he need technique work? I have no clue, and I doubt many of us really know any more that what we've read someone else write.

Again, I say look back at the post draft Beckham threads. 75% or more of this site look like complete asses.
RE: Do you have a cite for that stat?  
pjcas18 : 4/29/2016 9:23 am : link
In comment 12931782 Justlurking said:
Quote:
Can you link if so


below is a link, here is an excerpt:

Quote:
The 2015 season was the seventh straight year for an increase in the number of defensive snaps in the NFL with five defensive back or more on the field. Per Pro Football Focus here is the percentage of plays in NFL games with five DBs or more on the field in every season since 2008:

2008: 43.4%

2009: 45.1%

2010: 48.8%

2011: 52.5%

2012: 54.4%

2013: 58.3%

2014: 60.3%

2015: 63.4%

Nearly two-thirds of all snaps were played in the nickel defense last season, so it's about time we start referring to sets with five defensive backs as the base NFL defense. The rise of slot cornerbacks and hybrid safety/linebacker types has coincided with the proliferation of spread offense concepts throughout the NFL. Offenses are turning to more one-back sets, more three-wide sets, and more shotgun with each passing season, and defenses have predictably responded by putting additional coverage players on the field.

Nickel D is the new base - ( New Window )
that is not true  
mphbullet36 : 4/29/2016 9:23 am : link
Andre Johnson and Roddy White were never slot WR's. Maybe because they are much older now and do not have the speed they moved to the slot recently. But Andre Johnson and Roddy White have always been outside receivers.

Same with AJ Green, Dez Bryant types.

The slot receivers are the victor cruz, wes welker, doug baldwin types.
Other than moving TEs in the slot  
robbieballs2003 : 4/29/2016 9:26 am : link
The only coach that I can recall putting a bigger WR in the slot was Chip Kelly with Jordan Matthews. That has a lot to do with the running game and getting a bigger guy on a smaller guy. It also has to do with Chip going against the grain. Almost every slot corner is smaller so it gives him an advantage in the passing game as well. I am pretty sure Philly already said that Matthews is going back outside.
RE: that is not true  
pjcas18 : 4/29/2016 9:26 am : link
In comment 12931799 mphbullet36 said:
Quote:
Andre Johnson and Roddy White were never slot WR's. Maybe because they are much older now and do not have the speed they moved to the slot recently. But Andre Johnson and Roddy White have always been outside receivers.

Same with AJ Green, Dez Bryant types.

The slot receivers are the victor cruz, wes welker, doug baldwin types.


Now, it's a mix. Larry Fitzgerald played most of his snaps in the slot last year.

Yes, Andre Johnson and Roddy White lost a step and moved there as probably did Fitz, but it's the way of the NFL now too.

Here is a quote from Fitz:

Quote:
TEMPE, Ariz. -- The progression was slow and steady for Larry Fitzgerald, but it allowed him to adapt to his role.

Fitzgerald, who spent his first nine seasons primarily as an outside receiver for the Arizona Cardinals, was asked -- rather, told -- to move inside to the slot by Cardinals coach Bruce Arians when he was hired in 2013. The biggest change moving inside was the addition of blocking responsibilities, but Fitzgerald has embraced his role.

“It wasn’t something that was high on my priority list when I was younger,” Fitzgerald said. “Here, for us to be able to have great team success, it requires the wide receivers to do some blocking. For us to be able to have the success that I know we’re capable of, guys have to do some things that maybe they weren’t good at before.
Fitz also was an outside WR until very recently  
mphbullet36 : 4/29/2016 9:30 am : link
he has lost a few steps and playing in the slot helps guys who have lost a step.

This is not a knock on Apple at all because I like the kids potential. But this idea that the giants drafted him to play the slot is crazy. The Giants drafted him to replace DRC next year and be insurance for him because DRC has trouble finishing games and playing all 16.

Apple will be very valuable in that scenario.
RE: Fitz also was an outside WR until very recently  
pjcas18 : 4/29/2016 9:32 am : link
In comment 12931844 mphbullet36 said:
Quote:
he has lost a few steps and playing in the slot helps guys who have lost a step.

This is not a knock on Apple at all because I like the kids potential. But this idea that the giants drafted him to play the slot is crazy. The Giants drafted him to replace DRC next year and be insurance for him because DRC has trouble finishing games and playing all 16.

Apple will be very valuable in that scenario.


I am not claiming that Apple won't be the heir apparent to DRC. I'm saying the Giants can get him on the field as a contributor this year. and ideally I think we can all hope not due to injury.

for the record, Larry Fitzgerald set his career high for receptions in a season last year....in the slot. Sure his YPC was the lowest of his career too, but that's also a function of the slot vs outside.
ITS ABOUT DEPTH  
x meadowlander : 4/29/2016 9:33 am : link
NOT 3 WR SETS.

For Chrissakes, NAME the last season that the starting NY Giant corners played all 16 games.

One man goes down, there are severe matchup problems.

And again, this isn't just about 2016.
RE: ITS ABOUT DEPTH  
mphbullet36 : 4/29/2016 9:36 am : link
In comment 12931864 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
NOT 3 WR SETS.

For Chrissakes, NAME the last season that the starting NY Giant corners played all 16 games.

One man goes down, there are severe matchup problems.

And again, this isn't just about 2016.


100% agree
RE: ITS ABOUT DEPTH  
pjcas18 : 4/29/2016 9:36 am : link
In comment 12931864 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
NOT 3 WR SETS.

For Chrissakes, NAME the last season that the starting NY Giant corners played all 16 games.

One man goes down, there are severe matchup problems.

And again, this isn't just about 2016.


No one said it's just about 2016, however, in this era of the NFL you need your 1st round pick to contribute THIS YEAR (barring injury). No one wants the #10 pick in the draft to be insurance for injury/depth or a possible future starter in the event you don't retain your current starter.

you need an impact from the #10 pick in year 1, and I think they can get it.

Down the road of course there is a long-term plan, but your first round pick in 2016, especially at #10, absolutely better be about 2016.
All im saying...  
mphbullet36 : 4/29/2016 9:44 am : link
is it was more of a projectable pick than a 2016 pick because you are going to be playing a guy that has never played the nickle in the nickle.

VH is much more of a nickle than Apple. Apple strictly was an outside guy and all his measurables suggest he is an outside guy.

Maybe they will move Jenkins inside...or play DRC at FS a little if they really want to get Apple involved. I just think nickle would be really tough for him to learn especially since he has some technique issues on the outside already. Moving him inside could be a struggle.
As a #1 pick,  
Doomster : 4/29/2016 9:48 am : link
Apple should get plenty of playing time, as a slot corner or as a backup.....

How he plays, and how DRC plays/stays on the field, will bring insight to moves made at CB for the following year......
look at the offenses in our division  
UConn4523 : 4/29/2016 9:51 am : link
that we play 6 times per year, we need a MINIMUM of 3 starting caliber CB's. When will people wake up and realize its a passing league now?

To another poster's credit, are you guys cool watching Cole Beasley move the chains on us at will? Cole fucking Beasley?
RE: look at the offenses in our division  
dep026 : 4/29/2016 9:53 am : link
In comment 12931952 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
that we play 6 times per year, we need a MINIMUM of 3 starting caliber CB's. When will people wake up and realize its a passing league now?

To another poster's credit, are you guys cool watching Cole Beasley move the chains on us at will? Cole fucking Beasley?


Problem is Cole Beasley would be our number 2 this year :(
Thats why I prefer offense in the draft due to the fact I am not enamored with our skilled players outside Eli/OBJ.
RE: look at the offenses in our division  
pjcas18 : 4/29/2016 9:53 am : link
In comment 12931952 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
that we play 6 times per year, we need a MINIMUM of 3 starting caliber CB's. When will people wake up and realize its a passing league now?

To another poster's credit, are you guys cool watching Cole Beasley move the chains on us at will? Cole fucking Beasley?


the mere site of Cole Beasley makes me want to punch something. He is the epitome of a troll looking dude and reminds of Chris Elliott in everybody loves raymond when he wore that wig.
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