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NFT: And now for something completely different - Knicks Chat

Aspano! : 4/29/2016 1:28 pm
A couple of interesting articles out today. First, from the NYT, an article on why Melo and the Knicks need one another, with insight from Jeff Van Gundy:

NYTimes Article

Next, CNNSport Money discusses NBA player ROI, and finds Langston Galloway to be the third most valuable player (in terms of ROI) in the league this past season:

NBA Player ROI

First article goes into speaking how Blatt would be a great fit for the team, and I agree. He's accomplished a lot, and given Phil's transitional role with the team, going forward Mills and Blatt working together would be a great situation. The only issue would be Dolan's reluctance to interfere once Phil does leave.

As for the player ROI bit, it makes some sense, although I wouldn't put too much credence into it without understanding what weight individual stats have on the metric, or how it's calculated in general. But it also brings to mind an occurrence that's unique to the NBA - Of the three major sports (I'm not including hockey because I'm not very familiar with it), the NBA is the only league that constrains individual salaries, rather than only total team salaries. Thus, max contract player ROI can fluctuate quite a bit, and I'd be curious to learn/develop some type of metric that can help determine at what point giving a player a max deal is a good decision. That'll probably be a project I work on a few months down the road.
Blatt won't get us to the lottery.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/29/2016 1:39 pm : link
#staythecourse.
#Tankbis.
Interesting Times article  
arniefez : 4/29/2016 2:05 pm : link
thanks for the link. Jeff Van Gundy will forget more about the NBA today than I'll know in my whole life and I understand his point. But I hope Anthony is gone as soon as possible. Regardless of what KP says on the record he is all about the team and winning and nothing else. Anthony is about everything but the team and winning. Anthony is all about All Star games, being the "Franchise" player, the Olympics and his brand. I hope he's gone before any of that rubs off on KP.
Classic case of having set biases and not letting any information  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/29/2016 2:08 pm : link
get in the way.

I like JVG's point about the magnitude of the KP selection.  
bceagle05 : 4/29/2016 2:09 pm : link
People knock Phil by saying things like, "Yeah he drafted KP, but..." - and then point out a couple of minor moves like Afflalo's contract or O'Quinn, as if somehow that tips the scales in the wrong direction. The KP pick is worth 1,000 Arron Afflalos and Kyle O'Quinns, and morons like Michael Kay fail to comprehend that.
Deron  
DanMetroMan : 4/29/2016 2:22 pm : link
Williams is opting out. Not an option for the Knicks (absolutely hated NY) but still notable.
RE: Deron  
giantsfan44ab : 4/29/2016 2:27 pm : link
In comment 12933300 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Williams is opting out. Not an option for the Knicks (absolutely hated NY) but still notable.


He's best suited as a backup at this point. I'm not sure if his ego will allow for that to happen so I think a return to Dallas could be likely. There are a handful of teams that could use him as a starter and the prominent ones are Dallas, NY and BKN.
RE: I like JVG's point about the magnitude of the KP selection.  
Aspano! : 4/29/2016 2:28 pm : link
In comment 12933272 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
People knock Phil by saying things like, "Yeah he drafted KP, but..." - and then point out a couple of minor moves like Afflalo's contract or O'Quinn, as if somehow that tips the scales in the wrong direction. The KP pick is worth 1,000 Arron Afflalos and Kyle O'Quinns, and morons like Michael Kay fail to comprehend that.


The crazy thing is, KOQ is still a good signing, despite him underperforming. He's locked in for 3 more years at $4M per, and his issues aren't talent - they're mental. If they can help him with that stuff, then he's a pretty good backup.
RE: RE: Deron  
DanMetroMan : 4/29/2016 2:29 pm : link
In comment 12933309 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 12933300 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Williams is opting out. Not an option for the Knicks (absolutely hated NY) but still notable.



He's best suited as a backup at this point. I'm not sure if his ego will allow for that to happen so I think a return to Dallas could be likely. There are a handful of teams that could use him as a starter and the prominent ones are Dallas, NY and BKN.


I'm assuming it's a foregone conclusion he remains in Dallas. Just saw it on the scroll and thought it was worth mentioning.
Aspano  
giantsfan44ab : 4/29/2016 2:30 pm : link
That's a pretty cool project to work on, mind sharing on how you are gonna go about doing it? I just started to learn Python and I am getting a degree in analytics next school year so I'm looking into doing some sort of fun project in finance, real estate, sports, etc.
RE: Interesting Times article  
Aspano! : 4/29/2016 2:31 pm : link
In comment 12933260 arniefez said:
Quote:
thanks for the link. Jeff Van Gundy will forget more about the NBA today than I'll know in my whole life and I understand his point. But I hope Anthony is gone as soon as possible. Regardless of what KP says on the record he is all about the team and winning and nothing else. Anthony is about everything but the team and winning. Anthony is all about All Star games, being the "Franchise" player, the Olympics and his brand. I hope he's gone before any of that rubs off on KP.


Uhhhhhh

Melo requesting less playing time so the young guys could get experience makes him me-first? Melo showing and talking about his willingness to move the ball to other players on the team (as I've referenced before, end of the SA game) makes him selfish?

What's the weather like back in 2008?
It's a smart move on Deron's part  
giantsfan44ab : 4/29/2016 2:35 pm : link
I think Dallas will be eager to keep him. I'm assuming they're gonna make a big push for D12 and will extend parsons if he opts out. What's the MLE looking like for next year? It will increase proportionally with the cap, right? If so its probably gonna be in the $7-9 million range, if not a bit more. I could see him taking a 3 year $27M-ish deal to stick around in Dallas.
I hate deron Williams  
djm : 4/29/2016 2:44 pm : link
That is all.
RE: Aspano  
Aspano! : 4/29/2016 2:48 pm : link
In comment 12933324 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
That's a pretty cool project to work on, mind sharing on how you are gonna go about doing it? I just started to learn Python and I am getting a degree in analytics next school year so I'm looking into doing some sort of fun project in finance, real estate, sports, etc.


Funny, I'm perfecting my R and Python skills at the moment. My own personal project that I'll be working on more immediately is developing a metric to better understand a player's value based on his role within a team. If you've noticed from any of my basketball posts, I put very little credence in stats like PER, as well as all-in-one metrics in general. Look up "The Case for Dennis Rodman" to understand why a bit better.

My baseline thinking is that basketball, like soccer, is a fluid game. In theory, you could put 5 guys around the 3 point line, just like you could play a 2-2-6 in soccer. Similarly, players can have varying roles within a team. The best example would be point guard and a point forward. They serve the same purpose - playmaking - but they don't necessarily function the same way on the court.

Anyway, the project would basically entail understanding the roles and what stats are more important depending on the role being played. Then, developing separate role metrics to examine a player's ability within said role. Then, finally, utilizing historical player stats to see how good each player would be in a particular role.

As for the max player thing, it would require defining a metric like Win Shares and weighing it against the percentage a player's salary weighs against the cap.
Aspano!  
arniefez : 4/29/2016 2:50 pm : link
You like Anthony? I'm fine with that. More power to you. I can't stand him and can't wait until he's gone. I hope the Knicks break the Dolan/Marbury/Anthony "franchise my team" player cycle. KP might be good enough to do it.
I don't understand  
PaulBlakeTSU : 4/29/2016 2:59 pm : link
how anyone could have such an opposition to Melo. He is an incredible player who has been surrounded with dogshit and had to play in a guard league with the worst collection of point guards over his entire tenure than perhaps any superstar ever.
RE: RE: Aspano  
giantsfan44ab : 4/29/2016 3:37 pm : link
In comment 12933374 Aspano! said:
Quote:
In comment 12933324 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


That's a pretty cool project to work on, mind sharing on how you are gonna go about doing it? I just started to learn Python and I am getting a degree in analytics next school year so I'm looking into doing some sort of fun project in finance, real estate, sports, etc.



Funny, I'm perfecting my R and Python skills at the moment. My own personal project that I'll be working on more immediately is developing a metric to better understand a player's value based on his role within a team. If you've noticed from any of my basketball posts, I put very little credence in stats like PER, as well as all-in-one metrics in general. Look up "The Case for Dennis Rodman" to understand why a bit better.

My baseline thinking is that basketball, like soccer, is a fluid game. In theory, you could put 5 guys around the 3 point line, just like you could play a 2-2-6 in soccer. Similarly, players can have varying roles within a team. The best example would be point guard and a point forward. They serve the same purpose - playmaking - but they don't necessarily function the same way on the court.

Anyway, the project would basically entail understanding the roles and what stats are more important depending on the role being played. Then, developing separate role metrics to examine a player's ability within said role. Then, finally, utilizing historical player stats to see how good each player would be in a particular role.

As for the max player thing, it would require defining a metric like Win Shares and weighing it against the percentage a player's salary weighs against the cap.


Yeah, I'm also against PER to an extent. Not sure if you heard of the book "Mathletics", was written by a former professor at my school and explains the faultiness in stats like PER. Not sure if you heard of a YouTube channel called "BBALLBREAKDOWN" but they did something on what the average NBA player stats look like and analyzed which players are overpaid. To be honest they did a shitty job (most of the stuff they make seems rudimentary and lacking in depth analysis) as they only did basic stats and neglected defense all together outside of blocks and steals (they listed Derrick Favors and Avery Bradley as two of the most overpaid "average" players). Seems like what you are doing is more inclusive of impact rather than stats.


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