..and "needs to be coached-up" I get nervous. Let's hope that McAdoo's staff is better and teaching than Coughlin's was.
Also, the guy was a teenager less than a year ago. So IMO durability after taking a pounding from the strongest and fastest adult athletes is the world is a question mark.
And I would have preferred an OT. Hope Apple plays great for years of course.
I’ll admit, at first I didn’t really like it because of the position and thought it was a "reach". I’m just glad it’s defense. I would’ve liked to seen DE or LB, but I’ll wait to see how he performs on the field to make my judgements of course.
skills to be a real good one. If he takes to coaching, which everyone says he will, he should be a good selection and one we'll probably be happy with. It may take a year or two to correct his technique issues. I reserve judgment, but lI've his potential.
Going to be picked perhaps at 13, but I'm still down on the pick. I understand we need to look beyond 2016 and realize he's likely DRC's replacement, but the way Reese got outfoxed by both Chicago and Tennessee for Floyd and, especially, Conklin, still rubs me the wrong way. Also, if it's gonna hurt if Hargreaves makes an "all rookie" team as a full time starter out of the 11 spot while Apple gets his feet wet as the slot corner in 2016...
is worth a #10 in my book. Now just have to wait and see if he becomes that. My guess is that yes he does. Still wish they had taken a chance on Tunsil. Flowers-Richburg-Tunsil cold have been the nucleus of a dominant OL for many years.
Especially after reading Sy and several other scouting reports. He is so young and raw at a premium position that makes him intriguing. Any time you see the words "highest upside at the position in the draft" it is exciting. Now what concerns me is he is constantly grabbing the WR's that he was covering which will obviously lead to an insane amount of PI and holding calls in the NFL. If he can prevent himself from doing this by correcting his technique then he could be a good one.
if he develops into what Prince was but can stay healthy then I think it was an excellent pick. I just hope that this isn't DRC's last year with the Giants because it would be great to have DRC, Jenkins, and Apple for 2-3 years together.
however Apple is growing on me, and does address a need. However I would rather have picked Tunsil, IMO OT was a bigger need and Tunsil was a stud. I think we blew it frankly.
is going to start out at Guard for Miami. Take that for what it is.
My friend to me that and honestly I don't understand that at all. He is more finesse than powerful and I think he is a poor fit at guard. The ideal scenario would be to move ALbert to LG but I doubt he would agree to the move.
Looking at Giants history, their Super Bowls were the direct result Â
of the selections they made when they drafted in the top 10 picks. I know nothing about him. But he needs to end up having the impact of a Simms, Taylor, Banks, Manning, etc.
I don’t see him as DRC’s replacement, I more see him filling in the void for Prince. the Giants lost Prince and now they drafted Shepard, with a year-to-year eye evaluation. Hey, Apple is an upgrade over Prince if he can play 16 games this year and be productive and def Jayron Hosley.
Don't think he's a DRC replacement, unless DRC wants JJ money. We need defense all day long, particularly in the backfield if we keep avoiding LB. We now have a solid front and solid back. Let's hope our continuously weak underbelly can be worked on.
Tunsil would have been nice, but I can understand not taking the risk when we HAVE to have the pick producing on the field due to need. If we were stacked, maybe they would have taken the risk.
and since none of us(except maybe one or two)have any insight of the actual thought process we'll just have to wait and see.
I'm honest enough to know I don't follow the college game, but a lot of knowledgeable people out there like the kid so I feel pretty good about the pick.
If nothing else, at least they didn't get Floyd.
Good, very good! Somehow the second round pick made me Â
probably the best of a number of less than ideal options. That wasn't 2014, where we realistically could have taken one of five guys and gotten a pro bowl caliber player.
But lets look at the facts:
1. He has ideal measurables for the position.
2. He didn't give up big plays and his completion percentage against was strong
3. He's only played CFB for two years.
The knocks against him are that he's grabby when his technique slips, but he just turned 21. That's to be expected. That's also very coachable. Other than the position change obviously, he is very very similar to Erick Flowers in a number of ways. Both young, developing, ideal off the field, ideal measurable, coachable, a little raw.
hoping for Conklin but the more I see, read and hear from this kid the more I really like the pick. He's only 20, great athlete with good size and elite mirror ability....just needs some coaching up with ball recognition and refined technique. What has stood out to me is his innate confidence and competitiveness he showed in his interviews....seems to really relish zeke in his division (almost seems to dislike the guy) and, when asked which QB he wants to intercept, he said Eli as it all starts in practice. I think he's a great pick but we'll see...
I feel better after reading more and think he could be a good player Â
Prince Amukamara and that didn't turn out very well so I'm just going to have to wait and see like the rest. I really like Sheppard and think he's going to be good for a long time. Thompson was not good at all at the combine but his tape looks very solid. Reports of him being ill at the combine make me feel a little better. Justin Simmons had some amazing workout numbers particularly the 3 cone. We will see.
Even if Apple is JAG, he will still contribute. I think the key to this draft is if Shepard can be the Wes Welker of this offense (open underneath and more importantly NO DROPS in traffic), this would save the draft no matter what Eli does or does not do for the defense. This offense is good, it could be top 2 or 3. Wish they had had gotten the TE Henry, catches in traffic and NO DROPs, to compliment the receivers. I have to watch NE a lot and the NO DROPS is the key to their offense, even 2 yard completions that seem trivial.
He'll probably be good AND it was a position of NEED. Â
but still think #10 is poor value unless he becomes Revis or Sherman. He's actually in a good situation with DRC and Janoris ahead of him because he can learn how to be an NFL corner more smoothly than a lot of other highly-drafted corners who get burned constantly in their rookie seasons.
If he learns to trust his athleticism and grab the receivers less he will be an exceptional corner, but that is a BIG if
but what I can comment on is this: Today's NFL has MOST secondary guys clutching and grabbing-a lot...That's a big reason why Secondary flags keep flying..The awful rules have seen to that..
Obviously with experience he'll be "caught" less, but let's not act as though that's any kind of red flag in today's game
Even if Apple is JAG, he will still contribute. I think the key to this draft is if Shepard can be the Wes Welker of this offense (open underneath and more importantly NO DROPS in traffic), this would save the draft no matter what Eli does or does not do for the defense. This offense is good, it could be top 2 or 3. Wish they had had gotten the TE Henry, catches in traffic and NO DROPs, to compliment the receivers. I have to watch NE a lot and the NO DROPS is the key to their offense, even 2 yard completions that seem trivial.
That's what scares me. You can't be successful over the long term drafting JAG when you have a top 10 pick. That's fine when you're picking at 20 but not when you are picking #9 and #10 in back to back years. You have to make those picks count and you have to do WAY BETTER than JAG.
anyone can watch film.....when we look at these highlight films, they are what they are, highlights....
What you want to see, is how a player reacts to situations....
But no one can watch over every player like that....that's where the scouting system comes into play...
They know who the top players are, and they should be scouting them....the better your scouting system is, the less of a crap shoot, the draft becomes....
Let's face it, is it easier to make a pick in the first two rounds, but after that, it's the scouting system that separates the wheat from the chaff....
And our scouting system has come up short in that regard....
I don't think that was an option for Reese via a Mara dirrective. Tunsil could end up a huge bust and Apple a great player for all I know. Did not want to sweat out the injury with Jack, so he will probably be fine.
The problem with corners is everybody wants them to bat 1.000.
It just doesn't work that way. A common emotion shared by fans of all teams in the NFL is unhappiness with their corner play.
The ball is in the air all the time now. 62-65 % of those passes are getting completed. Passes thrown to the boundary increased significantly last season. It is a personal belief that Mike Haynes was the greatest football player of all-time. The guy played his position better than anyone has ever played theirs. CB is the second hardest one to play. But the changes in the game have made corner more difficult to play.
Eli needs to shorten his blind spot in close coverage. He looks too late at times when he tracks. He also loses his bearings for the sidelne occasionally. When he thinks he is pressing his guy on the stripe, he leaves an alley. Or, as he did against Sparty, he was closer than he thought so he pressed the receiver off the field and drew a huge DPI.
These flaws are correctable. He is now a professional. He doesn't have a GPA to worry about. I think they will start him off underneath doing a lot of what Wade fucked up last season. But he is so much better than what they have had, including Prince, who needed a treasure map out there to find the ball.
but what I can comment on is this: Today's NFL has MOST secondary guys clutching and grabbing-a lot...That's a big reason why Secondary flags keep flying..The awful rules have seen to that..
Obviously with experience he'll be "caught" less, but let's not act as though that's any kind of red flag in today's game
seems to me that a guy whose natural tendency is to grab would be at a *greater* rather than lesser disadvantage if the system is rigged to be more sensitive to it.
The problem with corners is everybody wants them to bat 1.000.
It just doesn't work that way. A common emotion shared by fans of all teams in the NFL is unhappiness with their corner play.
The ball is in the air all the time now. 62-65 % of those passes are getting completed. Passes thrown to the boundary increased significantly last season. It is a personal belief that Mike Haynes was the greatest football player of all-time. The guy played his position better than anyone has ever played theirs. CB is the second hardest one to play. But the changes in the game have made corner more difficult to play.
Eli needs to shorten his blind spot in close coverage. He looks too late at times when he tracks. He also loses his bearings for the sidelne occasionally. When he thinks he is pressing his guy on the stripe, he leaves an alley. Or, as he did against Sparty, he was closer than he thought so he pressed the receiver off the field and drew a huge DPI.
These flaws are correctable. He is now a professional. He doesn't have a GPA to worry about. I think they will start him off underneath doing a lot of what Wade fucked up last season. But he is so much better than what they have had, including Prince, who needed a treasure map out there to find the ball.
A lot of the top rated guys at their positions had holes in their game (Hargreaves, Treadwell, Bosa, Tunsil) or high risks/concerns (Jack, Tunsil). Not the best year to be in the top 10. So I like how they went and got their guy. They way we go through DBs you can't have too many.
but what I can comment on is this: Today's NFL has MOST secondary guys clutching and grabbing-a lot...That's a big reason why Secondary flags keep flying..The awful rules have seen to that..
Obviously with experience he'll be "caught" less, but let's not act as though that's any kind of red flag in today's game
seems to me that a guy whose natural tendency is to grab would be at a *greater* rather than lesser disadvantage if the system is rigged to be more sensitive to it.
31, I hear you. Just trying to convey the fact that with all the increased passing in the NFL and I'm assuming college as well, clutching and grabbing are more the norm these days, So I'm not very concerned about his rep. Sure, I hope he cleans this up and gets called less, but with the officials calling everything nowadays, I don't see all that improvement in the clutching and grabbing by DBs
like most Reese picks other than ODB. All things considered Reese has a higher batting average in the first round than pretty much anyone else in terms of guys contributing and not being busts so I expect Apple to follow suit. I didn't love it at first because most seem to think Apple is more athlete than a football player and in a lot of ways his tape reminded me of Prince in how he's in position but didn't always make plays on the ball, but I really like everything I've read since about his work ethic and character so combine that with his athleticism and I think he's a pretty safe bet to be a solid contributor (worst case hopefully we got a more durable Prince).
I don't think he has instincts that he will ever be confused with Patrick Peterson, Richard Sherman, or Darelle Revis, but I'm hopeful he'll reach that next level just below elite (Desmond Trufant/Vontae Davis). Those 2 in particular are still capable of making QB's look to the other side of the field the majority of the time despite not being quite on the level of the other guys mentioned.
RE: Good, very good! Somehow the second round pick made me Â
Unfortunately, they telegraphed the pick too much. Then, they tried to create a smokescreen with Conklin and Elliot but that did not work because both those guys were off the board so Fox knew he had to jump ahead. It was a very bad job by the Giants with information control. This is a problem, especially, as if I suspect, Tisch or his office, is the source of the leaks.
That said, Eli Apple is a very nice consolation prize. He could actually turn out t0 be better than Floyd.
but I did see Shepard play several times(not a big college fan but saw several Oklahoma games while with friends and the like)and this kid looks like a football player. He wants the ball and can make plays...very excited about his abilities.
Agreed - he is a total stud. The way the draft fell I'd have traded back and taken one of the WRs in the mid-first + picked up an extra pick. I'd have considered that the maximum value for the #10 pick. Getting Shepard renders that point moot because he has as much upside as any WR in this draft and probably a substantially higher floor as well. Coleman was the first WR off the board and he is no doubt a more explosive athlete, but he's also a lot less polished.
Mitigated a good deal of my concern with taking Apple in the first. I really wanted Treadwell or Doctson.
I'm just not crazy about CB high in the first round, outside of generational prospects. The position is just impossible to play. Even the really good ones don't stand a chance against the top WRs in the game.i
Great prospect, but not really a good pick for the GIANTS. Â
I know that they really needed more corners, but Reese essentially spent a first round pick on a nickel corner OR a guy who is going to push DRC off the roster, which amounts to more of Reese's unwise roster churning like we have seen in the past at DT. Either way it is not a good way to BUILD a team.
So either way it works out, it is a bad use of scarce resources, something that has been a trademark of Reese's tenure as GM.
Big, fast, and athletic. Best in press coverage. Not ball aware. Poor technique in being hands on the receiver and grabby. He won't get away with that in the NFL. He is very young so with coaching we can hope that he will improve his technique and be very good CB for years to come.
I like Green Apple today a lot more than Thursday night. Â
The 2 trades before the Giants were predicted by many, but everything fell wrong. Nobody gambled on Jack, the 3rd QB did not happen, and then the BIG Bong Gas Mask Blunder knocked Tunsil from the Chargers, Ravens, Browns, and us. I think Reese & Co. recovered well.
The Sheppard pick saved my positive off season attitude, however. I love that pick.
RE: Great prospect, but not really a good pick for the GIANTS. Â
I know that they really needed more corners, but Reese essentially spent a first round pick on a nickel corner OR a guy who is going to push DRC off the roster, which amounts to more of Reese's unwise roster churning like we have seen in the past at DT. Either way it is not a good way to BUILD a team.
So either way it works out, it is a bad use of scarce resources, something that has been a trademark of Reese's tenure as GM.
Red Dog in mid-season form..:)
You do know that today's D employ 3 CB regularly? That these so called nickel corners are on the field 60-70% of the time?
To articulate the resources argument - imagine they get Floyd Â
they'd have been able to possibly move up for Mackensie Alexander, take Kendall Fuller or Keivarae Russell in round 3 or stand pat and have Rashard Robinson, Eric Murray, Zack Sanchez or whoever else they like still on the board right now. Apple's undoubtably a better prospect than all those guys but they could all be solid contributors day 1. There was nobody else in the entire draft with the elite first step Floyd has. Freakin Chicago. They could have also traded back and taken Artie Burns (who I think has just as much upside as Apple) or gotten an extra pick so they could roll the dice on an extra elite talent like Myles Jack as a bonus.
So if the Giants get great players in rounds 2-7, Â
My three favorite players at our 10 spot was Zeke, Conklin, and Apple.
The boys took Zeke out of the gate and other teams leapfrogged us and took Floyd (who I breathed a sigh of relief that he was gone) and Conklin so it was a no brainer for me. I was still surprised to hear his name called, but man was I happy!
I had Apple rated higher than Hargreaves and see him as a future shutdown corner...but without the attitude associated with some good corners. Absolutely love this kid and hope he is very successful dressed in Blue
Going to be picked perhaps at 13, but I'm still down on the pick. I understand we need to look beyond 2016 and realize he's likely DRC's replacement, but the way Reese got outfoxed by both Chicago and Tennessee for Floyd and, especially, Conklin, still rubs me the wrong way. Also, if it's gonna hurt if Hargreaves makes an "all rookie" team as a full time starter out of the 11 spot while Apple gets his feet wet as the slot corner in 2016...
I don't think it's fair to say Reese got outfoxed; he just got outbid. He could have traded up to 8 or 9 as well, I'm sure. It's entirely possible that they had relatively similar grades on all three, including Apple, or that they just felt that the grades were closer than the cost of the trade up represented, even if EA was a slight drop from JC and LF.
if they weren't going to draft Laremy Tunsil under any circumstances, then Eli Apple is as good as any player who got picked after him. I had him as my number 1 corner.
I like Apple more than Hargraves but I didn't want either with that pick. I wanted Coleman but Giants didn't see it.
After we lost on Floyd, I thought Tunsil was the obvious choice (the bong mask should have been a gift to NYG).
After the pick I watched Apple vs Michigan state. He's a physical player but he definitely uses his hands a lot down the field on receivers. That will have to change. But he's long and athletic. He can press. I liked how he flew up to support the run and also on a WR screen slipping blocks and flashing fast to the ball. You also have to really like his age.
I'm not a big fan of drafting CBs high. So many of the first round corners simply don't pan out. It's the toughest position to play in the NFL and its even tougher to draft a truly elite CB. I would go pass rush, OL, or explosive playmaker on offense over CB all day at the top of round 1. I would have loved Floyd and thought he was a perfect match for our D to play with Vernon and JPP.
On the other hand, the contracts for good corner is nuts. Jenkins is not a great player. He's a good player and he got $40 million in the first 3 years?
If Apple can play and allow us to dump DRC's salary next year his value for the team really jumps and the pick would be a good one. We would have Apple for 4 more years at a low price and can use that cap room on a proven NFL player at another position. That's how I look at it.
Not thrilled with the pick but felt better about it after reading DaveTE's take on it and seeing that extremely low completion % when teams threw at Apple.
I look at him a lot like I did Flowers last year, Â
Lots of potential and talent, definitely fits a need for the team going forward, but he's got a lot to work on and it's going to be ugly at times with him while he develops.
He's not a "win-now" pick and there's going to likely be people who are -- loudly -- not going to have the patience for that, come late November when he's getting called for critical "dumb" penalties or has been getting roasted on key third downs in division games.
Today, I feel better about it than I did yesterday. He has some physical tools that we can work with. However, my area of expertise is the defensive backfield and he MUST address the following...
1. It is as if he does not trust his feet to keep him close to the WR and he is using his hands too much. Your hands should be used quite a bit within the first 5 yards. After that, your hand is used as a sensor (keeping track of where the WR is) so you can peek back at the QB often enough to know where the play is.
2. Ball awareness. Extremely lacking here from what I can see. He has very few INTs in his short college career which also supports this. His back seems to always be to the ball. Much like a LB chasing a TE down the middle of the field.
3. Zone Defense - not sure whether this is an area of concern or not. I just have not seen enough of him playing zone. This COULD help him as it relates to seeing the play in front of him.
People kept raving about his pass rushing skills but that's not LBs primary job. Watching Jack - you see what a 1st round LB should look like. Goodson, while certainly not in Floyd's class athletically, looks more the part of a LB. At the least, a much better run stopper and better football IQ.
I'm okay with the Apple pick. With Conklin gone, don't think you would have been hearing much grumbling had they taken Hargreaves - apparently they think Apple will make the better pro. Struggled in college due to a medical condition, then his learning curve took off. Meyer talks about how much he had grown as a CB. Think he has the physical tools and had demonstrated that he is hard worker and coachable. Think he will be a good player - how close he gets to his ceiling, and becomes very good to great, will depend a lot on Spags and Walton. I'd love to have Sam Madison mentoring this kid.
might be most important pick of the draft. That pick and healthy Cruz = whole new offense. Plus, with TC gone think O will more closely resemble Green Bay's and it wasn't half bad when TC was here.
and also seeing how Tennessee traded up to pass him speaks volumes about the risk we would have taken. I think the posters that are killing the pick are pissed that we passed on the 'big names' like Tunsil and Jack. When you focus on Eli Apple, he has every tool imaginable. I don't know what's going on with DRC, but we've heard the chatter that we might be looking to move on from him after this year. We addressed a premium position and a need, and Eli seems to check off all the boxes you want on and off the field (except the cooking part!).
might be most important pick of the draft. That pick and healthy Cruz = whole new offense. Plus, with TC gone think O will more closely resemble Green Bay's and it wasn't half bad when TC was here.
Shepard is going to provide us with the most immediate return, and will be a likely ROY candidate. I agree, he is the most important pick. It would have been a recipe for disaster to go in with Odell and hold out hope for Cruz to get back some of his magic.
Its hard to shake the feeling that we got punked in the first round.
We had opportunity to move up and decided the cost was too steep. How does that mean we got punked? That shows we didn't think the guy ahead of Apple on our board was so much better that we would lose additional picks to move up and get him.
Its hard to shake the feeling that we got punked in the first round.
We had opportunity to move up and decided the cost was too steep. How does that mean we got punked? That shows we didn't think the guy ahead of Apple on our board was so much better that we would lose additional picks to move up and get him.
Not sure what JC Joe meant when he said we got punked but I did not take it to mean that we should have traded up. To me, it is about two teams finding out who was high on our board and trading up in front of us to get them. If you listen closely to one of Reese's interviews in the past two days, he admits that there were players that they wanted in round 1 but were not there so he had to take the best player available.
I think Floyd and Conklin were high up on those teams Â
boards anyways. I'm sure we had interest in both Floyd and Conklin, but these guys weren't exactly under the radar prospects to real scouts. Odds are that the Bears and Titans had them on their radar a while back.
I think Apple ends up being our best CB in years-Mark Collins anyone? Â
Fast with size, young, only has played two years in college. Will get much better. Huge upside guy. He contributes right away when we go 3 db (65% of the plays, or maybe more if snacks is as good against the run as he was last year). My guess is that Jackrabbit goes inside when they have 3 CB on the field and Apple picks up the big wideout for the other team.
Draft seems great today. I hope we feel the same opening day.
Also, the guy was a teenager less than a year ago. So IMO durability after taking a pounding from the strongest and fastest adult athletes is the world is a question mark.
And I would have preferred an OT. Hope Apple plays great for years of course.
My friend to me that and honestly I don't understand that at all. He is more finesse than powerful and I think he is a poor fit at guard. The ideal scenario would be to move ALbert to LG but I doubt he would agree to the move.
Good size for a corner. Seems like a great kid.
Tunsil would have been nice, but I can understand not taking the risk when we HAVE to have the pick producing on the field due to need. If we were stacked, maybe they would have taken the risk.
I'm honest enough to know I don't follow the college game, but a lot of knowledgeable people out there like the kid so I feel pretty good about the pick.
If nothing else, at least they didn't get Floyd.
But lets look at the facts:
1. He has ideal measurables for the position.
2. He didn't give up big plays and his completion percentage against was strong
3. He's only played CFB for two years.
The knocks against him are that he's grabby when his technique slips, but he just turned 21. That's to be expected. That's also very coachable. Other than the position change obviously, he is very very similar to Erick Flowers in a number of ways. Both young, developing, ideal off the field, ideal measurable, coachable, a little raw.
The whole 1st round unfolded terribly for the Giants (and the second wasn't much better). They've made the most of it as best as they could.
That's nothing against Eli Apple.
If he learns to trust his athleticism and grab the receivers less he will be an exceptional corner, but that is a BIG if
Obviously with experience he'll be "caught" less, but let's not act as though that's any kind of red flag in today's game
That's what scares me. You can't be successful over the long term drafting JAG when you have a top 10 pick. That's fine when you're picking at 20 but not when you are picking #9 and #10 in back to back years. You have to make those picks count and you have to do WAY BETTER than JAG.
What you want to see, is how a player reacts to situations....
But no one can watch over every player like that....that's where the scouting system comes into play...
They know who the top players are, and they should be scouting them....the better your scouting system is, the less of a crap shoot, the draft becomes....
Let's face it, is it easier to make a pick in the first two rounds, but after that, it's the scouting system that separates the wheat from the chaff....
And our scouting system has come up short in that regard....
It just doesn't work that way. A common emotion shared by fans of all teams in the NFL is unhappiness with their corner play.
The ball is in the air all the time now. 62-65 % of those passes are getting completed. Passes thrown to the boundary increased significantly last season. It is a personal belief that Mike Haynes was the greatest football player of all-time. The guy played his position better than anyone has ever played theirs. CB is the second hardest one to play. But the changes in the game have made corner more difficult to play.
Eli needs to shorten his blind spot in close coverage. He looks too late at times when he tracks. He also loses his bearings for the sidelne occasionally. When he thinks he is pressing his guy on the stripe, he leaves an alley. Or, as he did against Sparty, he was closer than he thought so he pressed the receiver off the field and drew a huge DPI.
These flaws are correctable. He is now a professional. He doesn't have a GPA to worry about. I think they will start him off underneath doing a lot of what Wade fucked up last season. But he is so much better than what they have had, including Prince, who needed a treasure map out there to find the ball.
Obviously with experience he'll be "caught" less, but let's not act as though that's any kind of red flag in today's game
It just doesn't work that way. A common emotion shared by fans of all teams in the NFL is unhappiness with their corner play.
The ball is in the air all the time now. 62-65 % of those passes are getting completed. Passes thrown to the boundary increased significantly last season. It is a personal belief that Mike Haynes was the greatest football player of all-time. The guy played his position better than anyone has ever played theirs. CB is the second hardest one to play. But the changes in the game have made corner more difficult to play.
Eli needs to shorten his blind spot in close coverage. He looks too late at times when he tracks. He also loses his bearings for the sidelne occasionally. When he thinks he is pressing his guy on the stripe, he leaves an alley. Or, as he did against Sparty, he was closer than he thought so he pressed the receiver off the field and drew a huge DPI.
These flaws are correctable. He is now a professional. He doesn't have a GPA to worry about. I think they will start him off underneath doing a lot of what Wade fucked up last season. But he is so much better than what they have had, including Prince, who needed a treasure map out there to find the ball.
That's a great post RJ..
Quote:
but what I can comment on is this: Today's NFL has MOST secondary guys clutching and grabbing-a lot...That's a big reason why Secondary flags keep flying..The awful rules have seen to that..
Obviously with experience he'll be "caught" less, but let's not act as though that's any kind of red flag in today's game
seems to me that a guy whose natural tendency is to grab would be at a *greater* rather than lesser disadvantage if the system is rigged to be more sensitive to it.
31, I hear you. Just trying to convey the fact that with all the increased passing in the NFL and I'm assuming college as well, clutching and grabbing are more the norm these days, So I'm not very concerned about his rep. Sure, I hope he cleans this up and gets called less, but with the officials calling everything nowadays, I don't see all that improvement in the clutching and grabbing by DBs
LOL... it's true... plus one of the best tweets I saw this weekend was, "Wait, now we want Eli to dramatically increase his interceptions?"
Quote:
Is that he gets a nickname or we call him Apple. This Eli thing is already confusing the heck out of me.
LOL... it's true... plus one of the best tweets I saw this weekend was, "Wait, now we want Eli to dramatically increase his interceptions?"
Quote:
Is that he gets a nickname or we call him Apple. This Eli thing is already confusing the heck out of me.
LOL... it's true... plus one of the best tweets I saw this weekend was, "Wait, now we want Eli to dramatically increase his interceptions?"
He's a rookie, so Green Apple works for me.
I don't think he has instincts that he will ever be confused with Patrick Peterson, Richard Sherman, or Darelle Revis, but I'm hopeful he'll reach that next level just below elite (Desmond Trufant/Vontae Davis). Those 2 in particular are still capable of making QB's look to the other side of the field the majority of the time despite not being quite on the level of the other guys mentioned.
Why? I personally have more quawms with Shepard as the best option at WR than I did Apple in the position we were in.
That said, Eli Apple is a very nice consolation prize. He could actually turn out t0 be better than Floyd.
Agreed - he is a total stud. The way the draft fell I'd have traded back and taken one of the WRs in the mid-first + picked up an extra pick. I'd have considered that the maximum value for the #10 pick. Getting Shepard renders that point moot because he has as much upside as any WR in this draft and probably a substantially higher floor as well. Coleman was the first WR off the board and he is no doubt a more explosive athlete, but he's also a lot less polished.
I'm just not crazy about CB high in the first round, outside of generational prospects. The position is just impossible to play. Even the really good ones don't stand a chance against the top WRs in the game.i
So either way it works out, it is a bad use of scarce resources, something that has been a trademark of Reese's tenure as GM.
The Sheppard pick saved my positive off season attitude, however. I love that pick.
So either way it works out, it is a bad use of scarce resources, something that has been a trademark of Reese's tenure as GM.
Red Dog in mid-season form..:)
You do know that today's D employ 3 CB regularly? That these so called nickel corners are on the field 60-70% of the time?
That makes no sense. You don't judge a draft class by the top pick alone.
Most of the board didn't want Floyd and Apple plays a more premium position which is a position of need right now.
The boys took Zeke out of the gate and other teams leapfrogged us and took Floyd (who I breathed a sigh of relief that he was gone) and Conklin so it was a no brainer for me. I was still surprised to hear his name called, but man was I happy!
I had Apple rated higher than Hargreaves and see him as a future shutdown corner...but without the attitude associated with some good corners. Absolutely love this kid and hope he is very successful dressed in Blue
I don't think it's fair to say Reese got outfoxed; he just got outbid. He could have traded up to 8 or 9 as well, I'm sure. It's entirely possible that they had relatively similar grades on all three, including Apple, or that they just felt that the grades were closer than the cost of the trade up represented, even if EA was a slight drop from JC and LF.
After we lost on Floyd, I thought Tunsil was the obvious choice (the bong mask should have been a gift to NYG).
After the pick I watched Apple vs Michigan state. He's a physical player but he definitely uses his hands a lot down the field on receivers. That will have to change. But he's long and athletic. He can press. I liked how he flew up to support the run and also on a WR screen slipping blocks and flashing fast to the ball. You also have to really like his age.
I'm not a big fan of drafting CBs high. So many of the first round corners simply don't pan out. It's the toughest position to play in the NFL and its even tougher to draft a truly elite CB. I would go pass rush, OL, or explosive playmaker on offense over CB all day at the top of round 1. I would have loved Floyd and thought he was a perfect match for our D to play with Vernon and JPP.
On the other hand, the contracts for good corner is nuts. Jenkins is not a great player. He's a good player and he got $40 million in the first 3 years?
If Apple can play and allow us to dump DRC's salary next year his value for the team really jumps and the pick would be a good one. We would have Apple for 4 more years at a low price and can use that cap room on a proven NFL player at another position. That's how I look at it.
Not thrilled with the pick but felt better about it after reading DaveTE's take on it and seeing that extremely low completion % when teams threw at Apple.
He's not a "win-now" pick and there's going to likely be people who are -- loudly -- not going to have the patience for that, come late November when he's getting called for critical "dumb" penalties or has been getting roasted on key third downs in division games.
1. It is as if he does not trust his feet to keep him close to the WR and he is using his hands too much. Your hands should be used quite a bit within the first 5 yards. After that, your hand is used as a sensor (keeping track of where the WR is) so you can peek back at the QB often enough to know where the play is.
2. Ball awareness. Extremely lacking here from what I can see. He has very few INTs in his short college career which also supports this. His back seems to always be to the ball. Much like a LB chasing a TE down the middle of the field.
3. Zone Defense - not sure whether this is an area of concern or not. I just have not seen enough of him playing zone. This COULD help him as it relates to seeing the play in front of him.
I'm okay with the Apple pick. With Conklin gone, don't think you would have been hearing much grumbling had they taken Hargreaves - apparently they think Apple will make the better pro. Struggled in college due to a medical condition, then his learning curve took off. Meyer talks about how much he had grown as a CB. Think he has the physical tools and had demonstrated that he is hard worker and coachable. Think he will be a good player - how close he gets to his ceiling, and becomes very good to great, will depend a lot on Spags and Walton. I'd love to have Sam Madison mentoring this kid.
Shepard is going to provide us with the most immediate return, and will be a likely ROY candidate. I agree, he is the most important pick. It would have been a recipe for disaster to go in with Odell and hold out hope for Cruz to get back some of his magic.
We had opportunity to move up and decided the cost was too steep. How does that mean we got punked? That shows we didn't think the guy ahead of Apple on our board was so much better that we would lose additional picks to move up and get him.
Quote:
Its hard to shake the feeling that we got punked in the first round.
We had opportunity to move up and decided the cost was too steep. How does that mean we got punked? That shows we didn't think the guy ahead of Apple on our board was so much better that we would lose additional picks to move up and get him.
Not sure what JC Joe meant when he said we got punked but I did not take it to mean that we should have traded up. To me, it is about two teams finding out who was high on our board and trading up in front of us to get them. If you listen closely to one of Reese's interviews in the past two days, he admits that there were players that they wanted in round 1 but were not there so he had to take the best player available.
Draft seems great today. I hope we feel the same opening day.