..and "needs to be coached-up" I get nervous. Let's hope that McAdoo's staff is better and teaching than Coughlin's was.
Also, the guy was a teenager less than a year ago. So IMO durability after taking a pounding from the strongest and fastest adult athletes is the world is a question mark.
And I would have preferred an OT. Hope Apple plays great for years of course.
I’ll admit, at first I didn’t really like it because of the position and thought it was a "reach". I’m just glad it’s defense. I would’ve liked to seen DE or LB, but I’ll wait to see how he performs on the field to make my judgements of course.
skills to be a real good one. If he takes to coaching, which everyone says he will, he should be a good selection and one we'll probably be happy with. It may take a year or two to correct his technique issues. I reserve judgment, but lI've his potential.
Going to be picked perhaps at 13, but I'm still down on the pick. I understand we need to look beyond 2016 and realize he's likely DRC's replacement, but the way Reese got outfoxed by both Chicago and Tennessee for Floyd and, especially, Conklin, still rubs me the wrong way. Also, if it's gonna hurt if Hargreaves makes an "all rookie" team as a full time starter out of the 11 spot while Apple gets his feet wet as the slot corner in 2016...
is worth a #10 in my book. Now just have to wait and see if he becomes that. My guess is that yes he does. Still wish they had taken a chance on Tunsil. Flowers-Richburg-Tunsil cold have been the nucleus of a dominant OL for many years.
Especially after reading Sy and several other scouting reports. He is so young and raw at a premium position that makes him intriguing. Any time you see the words "highest upside at the position in the draft" it is exciting. Now what concerns me is he is constantly grabbing the WR's that he was covering which will obviously lead to an insane amount of PI and holding calls in the NFL. If he can prevent himself from doing this by correcting his technique then he could be a good one.
if he develops into what Prince was but can stay healthy then I think it was an excellent pick. I just hope that this isn't DRC's last year with the Giants because it would be great to have DRC, Jenkins, and Apple for 2-3 years together.
however Apple is growing on me, and does address a need. However I would rather have picked Tunsil, IMO OT was a bigger need and Tunsil was a stud. I think we blew it frankly.
is going to start out at Guard for Miami. Take that for what it is.
My friend to me that and honestly I don't understand that at all. He is more finesse than powerful and I think he is a poor fit at guard. The ideal scenario would be to move ALbert to LG but I doubt he would agree to the move.
Looking at Giants history, their Super Bowls were the direct result Â
of the selections they made when they drafted in the top 10 picks. I know nothing about him. But he needs to end up having the impact of a Simms, Taylor, Banks, Manning, etc.
I don’t see him as DRC’s replacement, I more see him filling in the void for Prince. the Giants lost Prince and now they drafted Shepard, with a year-to-year eye evaluation. Hey, Apple is an upgrade over Prince if he can play 16 games this year and be productive and def Jayron Hosley.
Don't think he's a DRC replacement, unless DRC wants JJ money. We need defense all day long, particularly in the backfield if we keep avoiding LB. We now have a solid front and solid back. Let's hope our continuously weak underbelly can be worked on.
Tunsil would have been nice, but I can understand not taking the risk when we HAVE to have the pick producing on the field due to need. If we were stacked, maybe they would have taken the risk.
and since none of us(except maybe one or two)have any insight of the actual thought process we'll just have to wait and see.
I'm honest enough to know I don't follow the college game, but a lot of knowledgeable people out there like the kid so I feel pretty good about the pick.
If nothing else, at least they didn't get Floyd.
Good, very good! Somehow the second round pick made me Â
probably the best of a number of less than ideal options. That wasn't 2014, where we realistically could have taken one of five guys and gotten a pro bowl caliber player.
But lets look at the facts:
1. He has ideal measurables for the position.
2. He didn't give up big plays and his completion percentage against was strong
3. He's only played CFB for two years.
The knocks against him are that he's grabby when his technique slips, but he just turned 21. That's to be expected. That's also very coachable. Other than the position change obviously, he is very very similar to Erick Flowers in a number of ways. Both young, developing, ideal off the field, ideal measurable, coachable, a little raw.
hoping for Conklin but the more I see, read and hear from this kid the more I really like the pick. He's only 20, great athlete with good size and elite mirror ability....just needs some coaching up with ball recognition and refined technique. What has stood out to me is his innate confidence and competitiveness he showed in his interviews....seems to really relish zeke in his division (almost seems to dislike the guy) and, when asked which QB he wants to intercept, he said Eli as it all starts in practice. I think he's a great pick but we'll see...
I feel better after reading more and think he could be a good player Â
Prince Amukamara and that didn't turn out very well so I'm just going to have to wait and see like the rest. I really like Sheppard and think he's going to be good for a long time. Thompson was not good at all at the combine but his tape looks very solid. Reports of him being ill at the combine make me feel a little better. Justin Simmons had some amazing workout numbers particularly the 3 cone. We will see.
Even if Apple is JAG, he will still contribute. I think the key to this draft is if Shepard can be the Wes Welker of this offense (open underneath and more importantly NO DROPS in traffic), this would save the draft no matter what Eli does or does not do for the defense. This offense is good, it could be top 2 or 3. Wish they had had gotten the TE Henry, catches in traffic and NO DROPs, to compliment the receivers. I have to watch NE a lot and the NO DROPS is the key to their offense, even 2 yard completions that seem trivial.
He'll probably be good AND it was a position of NEED. Â
but still think #10 is poor value unless he becomes Revis or Sherman. He's actually in a good situation with DRC and Janoris ahead of him because he can learn how to be an NFL corner more smoothly than a lot of other highly-drafted corners who get burned constantly in their rookie seasons.
If he learns to trust his athleticism and grab the receivers less he will be an exceptional corner, but that is a BIG if
but what I can comment on is this: Today's NFL has MOST secondary guys clutching and grabbing-a lot...That's a big reason why Secondary flags keep flying..The awful rules have seen to that..
Obviously with experience he'll be "caught" less, but let's not act as though that's any kind of red flag in today's game
Even if Apple is JAG, he will still contribute. I think the key to this draft is if Shepard can be the Wes Welker of this offense (open underneath and more importantly NO DROPS in traffic), this would save the draft no matter what Eli does or does not do for the defense. This offense is good, it could be top 2 or 3. Wish they had had gotten the TE Henry, catches in traffic and NO DROPs, to compliment the receivers. I have to watch NE a lot and the NO DROPS is the key to their offense, even 2 yard completions that seem trivial.
That's what scares me. You can't be successful over the long term drafting JAG when you have a top 10 pick. That's fine when you're picking at 20 but not when you are picking #9 and #10 in back to back years. You have to make those picks count and you have to do WAY BETTER than JAG.
anyone can watch film.....when we look at these highlight films, they are what they are, highlights....
What you want to see, is how a player reacts to situations....
But no one can watch over every player like that....that's where the scouting system comes into play...
They know who the top players are, and they should be scouting them....the better your scouting system is, the less of a crap shoot, the draft becomes....
Let's face it, is it easier to make a pick in the first two rounds, but after that, it's the scouting system that separates the wheat from the chaff....
And our scouting system has come up short in that regard....
I don't think that was an option for Reese via a Mara dirrective. Tunsil could end up a huge bust and Apple a great player for all I know. Did not want to sweat out the injury with Jack, so he will probably be fine.
The problem with corners is everybody wants them to bat 1.000.
It just doesn't work that way. A common emotion shared by fans of all teams in the NFL is unhappiness with their corner play.
The ball is in the air all the time now. 62-65 % of those passes are getting completed. Passes thrown to the boundary increased significantly last season. It is a personal belief that Mike Haynes was the greatest football player of all-time. The guy played his position better than anyone has ever played theirs. CB is the second hardest one to play. But the changes in the game have made corner more difficult to play.
Eli needs to shorten his blind spot in close coverage. He looks too late at times when he tracks. He also loses his bearings for the sidelne occasionally. When he thinks he is pressing his guy on the stripe, he leaves an alley. Or, as he did against Sparty, he was closer than he thought so he pressed the receiver off the field and drew a huge DPI.
These flaws are correctable. He is now a professional. He doesn't have a GPA to worry about. I think they will start him off underneath doing a lot of what Wade fucked up last season. But he is so much better than what they have had, including Prince, who needed a treasure map out there to find the ball.
but what I can comment on is this: Today's NFL has MOST secondary guys clutching and grabbing-a lot...That's a big reason why Secondary flags keep flying..The awful rules have seen to that..
Obviously with experience he'll be "caught" less, but let's not act as though that's any kind of red flag in today's game
seems to me that a guy whose natural tendency is to grab would be at a *greater* rather than lesser disadvantage if the system is rigged to be more sensitive to it.
The problem with corners is everybody wants them to bat 1.000.
It just doesn't work that way. A common emotion shared by fans of all teams in the NFL is unhappiness with their corner play.
The ball is in the air all the time now. 62-65 % of those passes are getting completed. Passes thrown to the boundary increased significantly last season. It is a personal belief that Mike Haynes was the greatest football player of all-time. The guy played his position better than anyone has ever played theirs. CB is the second hardest one to play. But the changes in the game have made corner more difficult to play.
Eli needs to shorten his blind spot in close coverage. He looks too late at times when he tracks. He also loses his bearings for the sidelne occasionally. When he thinks he is pressing his guy on the stripe, he leaves an alley. Or, as he did against Sparty, he was closer than he thought so he pressed the receiver off the field and drew a huge DPI.
These flaws are correctable. He is now a professional. He doesn't have a GPA to worry about. I think they will start him off underneath doing a lot of what Wade fucked up last season. But he is so much better than what they have had, including Prince, who needed a treasure map out there to find the ball.
A lot of the top rated guys at their positions had holes in their game (Hargreaves, Treadwell, Bosa, Tunsil) or high risks/concerns (Jack, Tunsil). Not the best year to be in the top 10. So I like how they went and got their guy. They way we go through DBs you can't have too many.
but what I can comment on is this: Today's NFL has MOST secondary guys clutching and grabbing-a lot...That's a big reason why Secondary flags keep flying..The awful rules have seen to that..
Obviously with experience he'll be "caught" less, but let's not act as though that's any kind of red flag in today's game
seems to me that a guy whose natural tendency is to grab would be at a *greater* rather than lesser disadvantage if the system is rigged to be more sensitive to it.
31, I hear you. Just trying to convey the fact that with all the increased passing in the NFL and I'm assuming college as well, clutching and grabbing are more the norm these days, So I'm not very concerned about his rep. Sure, I hope he cleans this up and gets called less, but with the officials calling everything nowadays, I don't see all that improvement in the clutching and grabbing by DBs
like most Reese picks other than ODB. All things considered Reese has a higher batting average in the first round than pretty much anyone else in terms of guys contributing and not being busts so I expect Apple to follow suit. I didn't love it at first because most seem to think Apple is more athlete than a football player and in a lot of ways his tape reminded me of Prince in how he's in position but didn't always make plays on the ball, but I really like everything I've read since about his work ethic and character so combine that with his athleticism and I think he's a pretty safe bet to be a solid contributor (worst case hopefully we got a more durable Prince).
I don't think he has instincts that he will ever be confused with Patrick Peterson, Richard Sherman, or Darelle Revis, but I'm hopeful he'll reach that next level just below elite (Desmond Trufant/Vontae Davis). Those 2 in particular are still capable of making QB's look to the other side of the field the majority of the time despite not being quite on the level of the other guys mentioned.
RE: Good, very good! Somehow the second round pick made me Â
Unfortunately, they telegraphed the pick too much. Then, they tried to create a smokescreen with Conklin and Elliot but that did not work because both those guys were off the board so Fox knew he had to jump ahead. It was a very bad job by the Giants with information control. This is a problem, especially, as if I suspect, Tisch or his office, is the source of the leaks.
That said, Eli Apple is a very nice consolation prize. He could actually turn out t0 be better than Floyd.
but I did see Shepard play several times(not a big college fan but saw several Oklahoma games while with friends and the like)and this kid looks like a football player. He wants the ball and can make plays...very excited about his abilities.
Also, the guy was a teenager less than a year ago. So IMO durability after taking a pounding from the strongest and fastest adult athletes is the world is a question mark.
And I would have preferred an OT. Hope Apple plays great for years of course.
My friend to me that and honestly I don't understand that at all. He is more finesse than powerful and I think he is a poor fit at guard. The ideal scenario would be to move ALbert to LG but I doubt he would agree to the move.
Good size for a corner. Seems like a great kid.
Tunsil would have been nice, but I can understand not taking the risk when we HAVE to have the pick producing on the field due to need. If we were stacked, maybe they would have taken the risk.
I'm honest enough to know I don't follow the college game, but a lot of knowledgeable people out there like the kid so I feel pretty good about the pick.
If nothing else, at least they didn't get Floyd.
But lets look at the facts:
1. He has ideal measurables for the position.
2. He didn't give up big plays and his completion percentage against was strong
3. He's only played CFB for two years.
The knocks against him are that he's grabby when his technique slips, but he just turned 21. That's to be expected. That's also very coachable. Other than the position change obviously, he is very very similar to Erick Flowers in a number of ways. Both young, developing, ideal off the field, ideal measurable, coachable, a little raw.
The whole 1st round unfolded terribly for the Giants (and the second wasn't much better). They've made the most of it as best as they could.
That's nothing against Eli Apple.
If he learns to trust his athleticism and grab the receivers less he will be an exceptional corner, but that is a BIG if
Obviously with experience he'll be "caught" less, but let's not act as though that's any kind of red flag in today's game
That's what scares me. You can't be successful over the long term drafting JAG when you have a top 10 pick. That's fine when you're picking at 20 but not when you are picking #9 and #10 in back to back years. You have to make those picks count and you have to do WAY BETTER than JAG.
What you want to see, is how a player reacts to situations....
But no one can watch over every player like that....that's where the scouting system comes into play...
They know who the top players are, and they should be scouting them....the better your scouting system is, the less of a crap shoot, the draft becomes....
Let's face it, is it easier to make a pick in the first two rounds, but after that, it's the scouting system that separates the wheat from the chaff....
And our scouting system has come up short in that regard....
It just doesn't work that way. A common emotion shared by fans of all teams in the NFL is unhappiness with their corner play.
The ball is in the air all the time now. 62-65 % of those passes are getting completed. Passes thrown to the boundary increased significantly last season. It is a personal belief that Mike Haynes was the greatest football player of all-time. The guy played his position better than anyone has ever played theirs. CB is the second hardest one to play. But the changes in the game have made corner more difficult to play.
Eli needs to shorten his blind spot in close coverage. He looks too late at times when he tracks. He also loses his bearings for the sidelne occasionally. When he thinks he is pressing his guy on the stripe, he leaves an alley. Or, as he did against Sparty, he was closer than he thought so he pressed the receiver off the field and drew a huge DPI.
These flaws are correctable. He is now a professional. He doesn't have a GPA to worry about. I think they will start him off underneath doing a lot of what Wade fucked up last season. But he is so much better than what they have had, including Prince, who needed a treasure map out there to find the ball.
Obviously with experience he'll be "caught" less, but let's not act as though that's any kind of red flag in today's game
It just doesn't work that way. A common emotion shared by fans of all teams in the NFL is unhappiness with their corner play.
The ball is in the air all the time now. 62-65 % of those passes are getting completed. Passes thrown to the boundary increased significantly last season. It is a personal belief that Mike Haynes was the greatest football player of all-time. The guy played his position better than anyone has ever played theirs. CB is the second hardest one to play. But the changes in the game have made corner more difficult to play.
Eli needs to shorten his blind spot in close coverage. He looks too late at times when he tracks. He also loses his bearings for the sidelne occasionally. When he thinks he is pressing his guy on the stripe, he leaves an alley. Or, as he did against Sparty, he was closer than he thought so he pressed the receiver off the field and drew a huge DPI.
These flaws are correctable. He is now a professional. He doesn't have a GPA to worry about. I think they will start him off underneath doing a lot of what Wade fucked up last season. But he is so much better than what they have had, including Prince, who needed a treasure map out there to find the ball.
That's a great post RJ..
Quote:
but what I can comment on is this: Today's NFL has MOST secondary guys clutching and grabbing-a lot...That's a big reason why Secondary flags keep flying..The awful rules have seen to that..
Obviously with experience he'll be "caught" less, but let's not act as though that's any kind of red flag in today's game
seems to me that a guy whose natural tendency is to grab would be at a *greater* rather than lesser disadvantage if the system is rigged to be more sensitive to it.
31, I hear you. Just trying to convey the fact that with all the increased passing in the NFL and I'm assuming college as well, clutching and grabbing are more the norm these days, So I'm not very concerned about his rep. Sure, I hope he cleans this up and gets called less, but with the officials calling everything nowadays, I don't see all that improvement in the clutching and grabbing by DBs
LOL... it's true... plus one of the best tweets I saw this weekend was, "Wait, now we want Eli to dramatically increase his interceptions?"
Quote:
Is that he gets a nickname or we call him Apple. This Eli thing is already confusing the heck out of me.
LOL... it's true... plus one of the best tweets I saw this weekend was, "Wait, now we want Eli to dramatically increase his interceptions?"
Quote:
Is that he gets a nickname or we call him Apple. This Eli thing is already confusing the heck out of me.
LOL... it's true... plus one of the best tweets I saw this weekend was, "Wait, now we want Eli to dramatically increase his interceptions?"
He's a rookie, so Green Apple works for me.
I don't think he has instincts that he will ever be confused with Patrick Peterson, Richard Sherman, or Darelle Revis, but I'm hopeful he'll reach that next level just below elite (Desmond Trufant/Vontae Davis). Those 2 in particular are still capable of making QB's look to the other side of the field the majority of the time despite not being quite on the level of the other guys mentioned.
Why? I personally have more quawms with Shepard as the best option at WR than I did Apple in the position we were in.
That said, Eli Apple is a very nice consolation prize. He could actually turn out t0 be better than Floyd.