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So how are we feeling about Eli Apple?

Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/30/2016 10:01 am
The opinion of Sy'56 and Dave Te makes me feel better.

But to me, he's absolutely critical to this draft. If he isn't really a top 10 pick in terms of quality and "just a guy", this draft is going to suck.

The limited tape I've seen on him is mixed.
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RE: Shepard will make the draft.  
Eric on Li : 4/30/2016 11:23 am : link
In comment 12936132 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
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Agreed - he is a total stud. The way the draft fell I'd have traded back and taken one of the WRs in the mid-first + picked up an extra pick. I'd have considered that the maximum value for the #10 pick. Getting Shepard renders that point moot because he has as much upside as any WR in this draft and probably a substantially higher floor as well. Coleman was the first WR off the board and he is no doubt a more explosive athlete, but he's also a lot less polished.
KWALL  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/30/2016 11:27 am : link
Your take on Apple? I may have missed your comments elsewhere.
Got to laugh  
XBRONX : 4/30/2016 11:38 am : link
about the theory that teams jumped us. Why didnt anyone jump us for Shephard?
The Shepard pick  
bigbluehoya : 4/30/2016 11:38 am : link
Mitigated a good deal of my concern with taking Apple in the first. I really wanted Treadwell or Doctson.

I'm just not crazy about CB high in the first round, outside of generational prospects. The position is just impossible to play. Even the really good ones don't stand a chance against the top WRs in the game.i



Great prospect, but not really a good pick for the GIANTS.  
Red Dog : 4/30/2016 11:47 am : link
I know that they really needed more corners, but Reese essentially spent a first round pick on a nickel corner OR a guy who is going to push DRC off the roster, which amounts to more of Reese's unwise roster churning like we have seen in the past at DT. Either way it is not a good way to BUILD a team.

So either way it works out, it is a bad use of scarce resources, something that has been a trademark of Reese's tenure as GM.
Best CB in weak CB draft  
Steve in South Jersey : 4/30/2016 11:48 am : link
Big, fast, and athletic. Best in press coverage. Not ball aware. Poor technique in being hands on the receiver and grabby. He won't get away with that in the NFL. He is very young so with coaching we can hope that he will improve his technique and be very good CB for years to come.
I like Green Apple today a lot more than Thursday night.  
GMen23 : 4/30/2016 11:54 am : link
The 2 trades before the Giants were predicted by many, but everything fell wrong. Nobody gambled on Jack, the 3rd QB did not happen, and then the BIG Bong Gas Mask Blunder knocked Tunsil from the Chargers, Ravens, Browns, and us. I think Reese & Co. recovered well.
The Sheppard pick saved my positive off season attitude, however. I love that pick.
RE: Great prospect, but not really a good pick for the GIANTS.  
Big Blue '56 : 4/30/2016 12:02 pm : link
In comment 12936187 Red Dog said:
Quote:
I know that they really needed more corners, but Reese essentially spent a first round pick on a nickel corner OR a guy who is going to push DRC off the roster, which amounts to more of Reese's unwise roster churning like we have seen in the past at DT. Either way it is not a good way to BUILD a team.

So either way it works out, it is a bad use of scarce resources, something that has been a trademark of Reese's tenure as GM.


Red Dog in mid-season form..:)

You do know that today's D employ 3 CB regularly? That these so called nickel corners are on the field 60-70% of the time?
To articulate the resources argument - imagine they get Floyd  
Eric on Li : 4/30/2016 12:06 pm : link
they'd have been able to possibly move up for Mackensie Alexander, take Kendall Fuller or Keivarae Russell in round 3 or stand pat and have Rashard Robinson, Eric Murray, Zack Sanchez or whoever else they like still on the board right now. Apple's undoubtably a better prospect than all those guys but they could all be solid contributors day 1. There was nobody else in the entire draft with the elite first step Floyd has. Freakin Chicago. They could have also traded back and taken Artie Burns (who I think has just as much upside as Apple) or gotten an extra pick so they could roll the dice on an extra elite talent like Myles Jack as a bonus.
So if the Giants get great players in rounds 2-7,  
Mr. Bungle : 4/30/2016 12:08 pm : link
but Apple ends up just a guy, the draft will suck?

That makes no sense. You don't judge a draft class by the top pick alone.
Still more Reese  
UConn4523 : 4/30/2016 12:18 pm : link
was outsmarted I see, with still no proof, shocker.

Most of the board didn't want Floyd and Apple plays a more premium position which is a position of need right now.
Love Eli Apple  
mavric : 4/30/2016 12:29 pm : link
My three favorite players at our 10 spot was Zeke, Conklin, and Apple.

The boys took Zeke out of the gate and other teams leapfrogged us and took Floyd (who I breathed a sigh of relief that he was gone) and Conklin so it was a no brainer for me. I was still surprised to hear his name called, but man was I happy!

I had Apple rated higher than Hargreaves and see him as a future shutdown corner...but without the attitude associated with some good corners. Absolutely love this kid and hope he is very successful dressed in Blue
RE: Yes I know he was probably  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/30/2016 12:32 pm : link
In comment 12935992 The_Boss said:
Quote:
Going to be picked perhaps at 13, but I'm still down on the pick. I understand we need to look beyond 2016 and realize he's likely DRC's replacement, but the way Reese got outfoxed by both Chicago and Tennessee for Floyd and, especially, Conklin, still rubs me the wrong way. Also, if it's gonna hurt if Hargreaves makes an "all rookie" team as a full time starter out of the 11 spot while Apple gets his feet wet as the slot corner in 2016...

I don't think it's fair to say Reese got outfoxed; he just got outbid. He could have traded up to 8 or 9 as well, I'm sure. It's entirely possible that they had relatively similar grades on all three, including Apple, or that they just felt that the grades were closer than the cost of the trade up represented, even if EA was a slight drop from JC and LF.
Meh  
JerseyCityJoe : 4/30/2016 12:41 pm : link
Its hard to shake the feeling that we got punked in the first round.
Setting aside the leaks and the trades ahead of them,  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/30/2016 12:48 pm : link
if they weren't going to draft Laremy Tunsil under any circumstances, then Eli Apple is as good as any player who got picked after him. I had him as my number 1 corner.
I Like the Pick  
Mike53 : 4/30/2016 12:59 pm : link
He's a tall fast CB that this team needs. Our DBs except DRC we beaten every time by the taller receivers we face. Especially in the red zone.
Eric  
KWALL2 : 4/30/2016 1:02 pm : link
I like Apple more than Hargraves but I didn't want either with that pick. I wanted Coleman but Giants didn't see it.

After we lost on Floyd, I thought Tunsil was the obvious choice (the bong mask should have been a gift to NYG).

After the pick I watched Apple vs Michigan state. He's a physical player but he definitely uses his hands a lot down the field on receivers. That will have to change. But he's long and athletic. He can press. I liked how he flew up to support the run and also on a WR screen slipping blocks and flashing fast to the ball. You also have to really like his age.

I'm not a big fan of drafting CBs high. So many of the first round corners simply don't pan out. It's the toughest position to play in the NFL and its even tougher to draft a truly elite CB. I would go pass rush, OL, or explosive playmaker on offense over CB all day at the top of round 1. I would have loved Floyd and thought he was a perfect match for our D to play with Vernon and JPP.

On the other hand, the contracts for good corner is nuts. Jenkins is not a great player. He's a good player and he got $40 million in the first 3 years?

If Apple can play and allow us to dump DRC's salary next year his value for the team really jumps and the pick would be a good one. We would have Apple for 4 more years at a low price and can use that cap room on a proven NFL player at another position. That's how I look at it.

Not thrilled with the pick but felt better about it after reading DaveTE's take on it and seeing that extremely low completion % when teams threw at Apple.
I look at him a lot like I did Flowers last year,  
Devon : 4/30/2016 1:03 pm : link
Lots of potential and talent, definitely fits a need for the team going forward, but he's got a lot to work on and it's going to be ugly at times with him while he develops.

He's not a "win-now" pick and there's going to likely be people who are -- loudly -- not going to have the patience for that, come late November when he's getting called for critical "dumb" penalties or has been getting roasted on key third downs in division games.
Eric...  
EricJ : 4/30/2016 1:39 pm : link
Today, I feel better about it than I did yesterday. He has some physical tools that we can work with. However, my area of expertise is the defensive backfield and he MUST address the following...

1. It is as if he does not trust his feet to keep him close to the WR and he is using his hands too much. Your hands should be used quite a bit within the first 5 yards. After that, your hand is used as a sensor (keeping track of where the WR is) so you can peek back at the QB often enough to know where the play is.

2. Ball awareness. Extremely lacking here from what I can see. He has very few INTs in his short college career which also supports this. His back seems to always be to the ball. Much like a LB chasing a TE down the middle of the field.

3. Zone Defense - not sure whether this is an area of concern or not. I just have not seen enough of him playing zone. This COULD help him as it relates to seeing the play in front of him.
If he can cook on the field  
Canton : 4/30/2016 1:47 pm : link
I'm all in..
re: Floyd glad we didn't get him  
bc4life : 4/30/2016 2:10 pm : link
People kept raving about his pass rushing skills but that's not LBs primary job. Watching Jack - you see what a 1st round LB should look like. Goodson, while certainly not in Floyd's class athletically, looks more the part of a LB. At the least, a much better run stopper and better football IQ.

I'm okay with the Apple pick. With Conklin gone, don't think you would have been hearing much grumbling had they taken Hargreaves - apparently they think Apple will make the better pro. Struggled in college due to a medical condition, then his learning curve took off. Meyer talks about how much he had grown as a CB. Think he has the physical tools and had demonstrated that he is hard worker and coachable. Think he will be a good player - how close he gets to his ceiling, and becomes very good to great, will depend a lot on Spags and Walton. I'd love to have Sam Madison mentoring this kid.
Shepard  
bc4life : 4/30/2016 2:13 pm : link
might be most important pick of the draft. That pick and healthy Cruz = whole new offense. Plus, with TC gone think O will more closely resemble Green Bay's and it wasn't half bad when TC was here.
Devon  
bc4life : 4/30/2016 2:15 pm : link
think the Flowers' comparison is a good one.
I wanted Tunsil, but the more that you read about him  
David in LA : 4/30/2016 2:24 pm : link
and also seeing how Tennessee traded up to pass him speaks volumes about the risk we would have taken. I think the posters that are killing the pick are pissed that we passed on the 'big names' like Tunsil and Jack. When you focus on Eli Apple, he has every tool imaginable. I don't know what's going on with DRC, but we've heard the chatter that we might be looking to move on from him after this year. We addressed a premium position and a need, and Eli seems to check off all the boxes you want on and off the field (except the cooking part!).
RE: Shepard  
David in LA : 4/30/2016 2:27 pm : link
In comment 12936695 bc4life said:
Quote:
might be most important pick of the draft. That pick and healthy Cruz = whole new offense. Plus, with TC gone think O will more closely resemble Green Bay's and it wasn't half bad when TC was here.


Shepard is going to provide us with the most immediate return, and will be a likely ROY candidate. I agree, he is the most important pick. It would have been a recipe for disaster to go in with Odell and hold out hope for Cruz to get back some of his magic.
RE: Meh  
David in LA : 4/30/2016 2:29 pm : link
In comment 12936353 JerseyCityJoe said:
Quote:
Its hard to shake the feeling that we got punked in the first round.


We had opportunity to move up and decided the cost was too steep. How does that mean we got punked? That shows we didn't think the guy ahead of Apple on our board was so much better that we would lose additional picks to move up and get him.
RE: RE: Meh  
EricJ : 4/30/2016 3:14 pm : link
In comment 12936794 David in LA said:
Quote:
In comment 12936353 JerseyCityJoe said:


Quote:


Its hard to shake the feeling that we got punked in the first round.



We had opportunity to move up and decided the cost was too steep. How does that mean we got punked? That shows we didn't think the guy ahead of Apple on our board was so much better that we would lose additional picks to move up and get him.


Not sure what JC Joe meant when he said we got punked but I did not take it to mean that we should have traded up. To me, it is about two teams finding out who was high on our board and trading up in front of us to get them. If you listen closely to one of Reese's interviews in the past two days, he admits that there were players that they wanted in round 1 but were not there so he had to take the best player available.
I think Floyd and Conklin were high up on those teams  
David in LA : 4/30/2016 3:17 pm : link
boards anyways. I'm sure we had interest in both Floyd and Conklin, but these guys weren't exactly under the radar prospects to real scouts. Odds are that the Bears and Titans had them on their radar a while back.
I think Apple ends up being our best CB in years-Mark Collins anyone?  
WillieYoung : 4/30/2016 3:53 pm : link
Fast with size, young, only has played two years in college. Will get much better. Huge upside guy. He contributes right away when we go 3 db (65% of the plays, or maybe more if snacks is as good against the run as he was last year). My guess is that Jackrabbit goes inside when they have 3 CB on the field and Apple picks up the big wideout for the other team.

Draft seems great today. I hope we feel the same opening day.
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