Seemed like consensus was to toss Reese after he picked Apple? And now he's killing it? This place is so fickle.
After reports that Apple was going to go at 11 or 13, I think people calmed down a bit about Apple. The thing is he's not a ready-made NFL player yet which is what you want when you're picking in the top 10. That being said Apple has the physical tools to be an exceptional corner, a top 5 NFL corner
I think that's overstated. He's a man/press corner. In that sense he is ready made. If you're gonna ask him to play off coverages and play a lot of zone concepts, then yes he will struggle. But he can certainly play this year. He's not a project.
This draft could impact like the 07 draft (fingers crossed). All of the picks outside of Apple will compete for a starting spot and Apple will still see a lot of snaps.
As to where he will play with the Giants, Goodson will likely be a core special teamer and will see work at both the middle and at the strong-side, where he is likely to challenge incumbent Mark Herzlich.
What are the Giants waiting for? The Giants need a right guard and right tackle and some depth. When are the Giants going to address their need on the offensive line?
Too late now, get ready for some UDFA invited to camp.
They have drafted some at the back end of the draft in the
past here, none have succeeded. That's not a shocker either.
good write-up on him here... with gifs showing his play... 2016 NFL Draft Scouting Report: Clemson LB B.J. Goodson - ( New Window )
Thanks. Hes an explosive, smart, thumper with some ability to drop in coverage, but limited sideline to sideline speed. Everybody has warts at this point in the draft. He seems to have fewer than most. He also has some great attributes.
I am cautiously optimistic. He is a physical LB who likely can crack the starting lineup right away. From that perspective, it is hard to complain about the pick.
My worries are about his perceived weaknesses. His weaknesses seem to mirror the overall weaknesses of our LB unit over the last few years. He is not fast, he is not very good in coverage or sealing the edge, and is not great in space. From that perspective, I wonder why not take another LB. Can someone more familiar with him comment on this?
So you wanted the big, physical, tough, awesome run defender who also runs like a deer in the 4th round?
No. I like the physicality to set a better attitude for this D. But, overall, I would rather have a fast LB who plays well in space and coverage, which is what we've been sorely lacking for a number of years. I don't expect both in the 4th round. I would just place more value on the speed given how this defense has played and is still made up.
Not a bad pick and I'm not complaining. I was hoping more that someone more familiar with him could comment on how serious his weaknesses are. He is also the 2nd player picked who is described as "grabby" in his technique in coverage. That opens us up to a lot of penalties.
LB, is that he had 5 INTS which is a big number for a LB, see the darian logic, interesting to see where he goes and how he plays , wonder if we can get him in 5th.
Not funny or ironic or anything else. This happens often in the draft. Floyd is an outstanding athlete, but has his own warts that are related to his physical makeup. He may not live up to his ceiling as a result. I still wouldn't have complained if they picked him because the expectation is that he will be a dynamic player. However, I think they have made 4 solid picks, including Goodson.
i think he is a good solid LB better than some they already had on the roster but he is completely ignoring the gaping hole on the right side of the OL they have a few guys who project to push jerry into backup at RG but they have nothing other than newhouse who is awful and no depth outside of that OT incase of injury
thier were better options on the board like hawkins and billings its the reason they just spent big money in FA at DT because they overlook guys like these for a 2 down run stopping LB that is a poor cover guy the LB has some options there but OT doesnt and they could also do with some depth at DT and billings would have been a better use of the pick here
unless they believe goodson is better against the pass than people think in which case i would defer to the coaches but every year or two they fill the middle rounds with these kind of picks and the failure rate has been way too high it just seams like he is another middle round LB that will have limited spot duty on running downs and be the same liability in coverage that lets TE's and RB pass catching continue to gouge them for bigger gains than they should
they need an OT either in the last couple of picks or a FA or cut down and we really need another snee and mckenzie not another jerry or newhouse can see them needing to go OT again early next year since they passed on it now they need a dominating RT to get the fire going under that running game which they just dont seam to see what we see?
McShay has Goodson ranked at 106 on his top 300 list.
Mel has him ranked at 107.
The Giants picked him at 109.
The trouble with getting excited on the third day is that, no matter how many nice things you read about the player you drafted, historically the odds are against the player developing into a solid starter.
Giants' 4th round picks:
2015 - none
2014 - Andre Williams
2013 - Ryan Nassib
2012 - Adrien Robinson, Brandon Mosley
2011 - James Brewer
2010 - Phillip Dillard
2009 - Andre Brown
2008 - Bryan Kehl
2007 - Zak DeOssie A keeper!
But it's mean to ruin the day for people, and I think that Jerry is due for a big draft and this may be it.
I brought up Jerell Adams in the third round. Mel had him as the number one tight end in the draft at 46, 8 ahead of Hunter Henry. For once I really hope that Mel was right.
I don't mean to shit on the Goodson party here, but I'm not sure this guy is as good as the current BBI hype after watching the Florida State draft breakdown. He looked bad in that game. He seemed slow in general, and was not able to shed any blocks, allowing big runs to Florida State.
I see the smarts and good QBing, but I don't think we got the miracle answer here some are hoping for.
I'm a little curious as to why you think he's best as a WILL. His attributes scream MIKE: Takes on blockers well, thumper,quick but not fast, studies the game relentlessly. As a WILL, you have to have speed to chase down plays, run with TEs and RBs.
Also the comparisons to Pierce are great and all, but Pierce was never a 7 second 3 cone. Lol
Quote:
Seemed like consensus was to toss Reese after he picked Apple? And now he's killing it? This place is so fickle.
After reports that Apple was going to go at 11 or 13, I think people calmed down a bit about Apple. The thing is he's not a ready-made NFL player yet which is what you want when you're picking in the top 10. That being said Apple has the physical tools to be an exceptional corner, a top 5 NFL corner
I think that's overstated. He's a man/press corner. In that sense he is ready made. If you're gonna ask him to play off coverages and play a lot of zone concepts, then yes he will struggle. But he can certainly play this year. He's not a project.
https://insidefootball.com/2016-draft/2016-york-giants-draft-review-4/ - ( New Window )
Hopefully he will be the first drafted LB (In a very long time) who can be a solid starter.
Too late now, get ready for some UDFA invited to camp.
They have drafted some at the back end of the draft in the
past here, none have succeeded. That's not a shocker either.
Quote:
ran a 4.9.
Goodson runs a 4.70. He's not as limited as the publications suggest with regard to range.
I'd still put him in the middle so he can be that sideline to sideline LB
Sy says he would be better at Will, not Mike. That ends that discussion for me.
And another theme for this year..
Captains
2016 NFL Draft Scouting Report: Clemson LB B.J. Goodson - ( New Window )
C'mon Eric, that's a 15 yard facemask GIF, LOL.
Just busting you man.
Thanks. Hes an explosive, smart, thumper with some ability to drop in coverage, but limited sideline to sideline speed. Everybody has warts at this point in the draft. He seems to have fewer than most. He also has some great attributes.
You mean a GM can't make bad picks and good picks in the same draft?
Excellent analysis from that article Eric, thanks.
Nice M*A*S*H reference.
My worries are about his perceived weaknesses. His weaknesses seem to mirror the overall weaknesses of our LB unit over the last few years. He is not fast, he is not very good in coverage or sealing the edge, and is not great in space. From that perspective, I wonder why not take another LB. Can someone more familiar with him comment on this?
Lonk - ( New Window )
Not to mention Team Captain, Rhodes Scholar, and James Beard Award Winner (you know, to mentor Apple).
Quote:
JPP, Snacks, Hank and Vernon as the front 4
Kennard, Goodson and JT Thomas at LB
DRC, Jenkins, Apple at corner
Collins, Darian Thompson at safety
We still need another OLB but that's starting to look really solid
Kennard, Robinson, Goodson.
be careful penciling the kid in right away. Hopefully he'll learn enough by late season to be ther (aside from injuries to others) , but ST's at first
Not a bad pick and I'm not complaining. I was hoping more that someone more familiar with him could comment on how serious his weaknesses are. He is also the 2nd player picked who is described as "grabby" in his technique in coverage. That opens us up to a lot of penalties.
This is more about how he tested
Quote:
Goes to commercial when the Giants are on the clock
Ever hear of the NFLN?
No I haven't what is that smh
thier were better options on the board like hawkins and billings its the reason they just spent big money in FA at DT because they overlook guys like these for a 2 down run stopping LB that is a poor cover guy the LB has some options there but OT doesnt and they could also do with some depth at DT and billings would have been a better use of the pick here
unless they believe goodson is better against the pass than people think in which case i would defer to the coaches but every year or two they fill the middle rounds with these kind of picks and the failure rate has been way too high it just seams like he is another middle round LB that will have limited spot duty on running downs and be the same liability in coverage that lets TE's and RB pass catching continue to gouge them for bigger gains than they should
they need an OT either in the last couple of picks or a FA or cut down and we really need another snee and mckenzie not another jerry or newhouse can see them needing to go OT again early next year since they passed on it now they need a dominating RT to get the fire going under that running game which they just dont seam to see what we see?
"B.J. Goodson can play any of the linebacker positions." - Jerry Reese
Ralph Vacchiano @RVacchianoNYDN 46s47 seconds ago
LB B.J. Goodson is "a tackling machine," GM Jerry Reese said.
"B.J. Goodson is a talented linebacker who can play all three spots." - Coach McAdoo
Ben McAdoo thinks BJ Goodson is at his best at MLB. "He's smart, good instincts, good wrap tackler."
"Goodson is smart with good instincts. He's physical between the tackles." - Coach McAdoo
Mel has him ranked at 107.
The Giants picked him at 109.
The trouble with getting excited on the third day is that, no matter how many nice things you read about the player you drafted, historically the odds are against the player developing into a solid starter.
Giants' 4th round picks:
2015 - none
2014 - Andre Williams
2013 - Ryan Nassib
2012 - Adrien Robinson, Brandon Mosley
2011 - James Brewer
2010 - Phillip Dillard
2009 - Andre Brown
2008 - Bryan Kehl
2007 - Zak DeOssie A keeper!
But it's mean to ruin the day for people, and I think that Jerry is due for a big draft and this may be it.
I brought up Jerell Adams in the third round. Mel had him as the number one tight end in the draft at 46, 8 ahead of Hunter Henry. For once I really hope that Mel was right.
I see the smarts and good QBing, but I don't think we got the miracle answer here some are hoping for.
Does he have better tape in a different game?
Goodson v Florida State 2015 - ( New Window )
The two times he lined up right over the line of scrimmage he got penetration and busted up one of the plays.
Not enough to judge.
Also the comparisons to Pierce are great and all, but Pierce was never a 7 second 3 cone. Lol
"B.J. Goodson can play any of the linebacker positions." - Jerry Reese
Based on what he now at that position, Goodson may have to play all three
at once...