I thought Eli Apple was the only "reach" (although if the Dolphins were planning on taking him at 13, he may not be) and he could turn out to be a complete stud a few years from now. He's a high-end project and we'll give him time to develop while he sees quality time in the nickel.
1st and 5th bad? everyone including all of ESPN coverage analysts think perkins was good, i dont see how anyone could say that was a bad pick lol...
this draft is an EASY A, especially if you compare to previous years. we took virtually no projects in this draft.
Eli Apple(CB)-Big corner, long arms. good press man corner-DRC replacement in a years time, can play inside as well as outside. TOP rated CB on many boards if you consider ramsey a FS.
Sterling Shepard(WR)-great production in college, can play inside AND outside. only 5'10 but 41" vertical and a large catch radius. no fear works over the middle, tough and the best route runner in the entire draft.
Darian Thompson(FS)-PRODUCTION- 19 INTs in his career, a true centerfielder and a ball hawk. will be a great compliment to Collins who will now play SS which is his natural position.
BJ Goodson(LB)-versatile only 6'0 or so but can play all three LBer positions, will end up being the starting WILL LBer for the Giants come september. 19 tackles in the orange bowl, can play in space, good speed for his weight
Paul Perkins(RB)-good value here, very shifty, tough enough to be a primary back. had the highest elusiveness rating (forced missed tackles+ YAC per attempt) of ANY RB including Zeke elliot
Jerell Adams(TE)-shocked he was here in the 6th great value. a tall guy big hands long arms big catch radius. could be used in the redzone. donnells injury concerns and a young will tye, this guy adds to the depth at TE and could provide a redzone target.
6 picks, no reaches, no projects. we filled needs and got good value while doing so. I am VERY excited about this draft...if the giants figure out a way to give some help to the right side of Oline this team will be pretty complete! I am very excited! We had a GREAT weekend! #giants
None of the players look like 'gambles' except the TE
Going with a B +. A need based draft almost across the board minus the RB pick.
The issue with Coughlin's teams last few years were the lack of development of young players. I hope this draft class can really develop well under McAdoo.
Apple scares me a bit. Thompson I think we over-drafted and think Simmons might have been a better fit but he is growing on me the more I read & see of him.
Apple scares me a bit. Thompson I think we over-drafted and think Simmons might have been a better fit but he is growing on me the more I read & see of him.
All other rounds great values good players.
thompson was at one point the first ranked safety. i dont think overdrafted at all 19 INTs in career is awesome...watch some on him he is all over the field. i think we are going to quickly love this kid
Apple is a tad rawrer than I would like with a Top 10 pick and with how deep this draft was I would have liked a trade down as there were a number of times where there were enough guys ranked similarly that anything would be a bonus
probably got at best a C from BBI, not sure most of us are qualified to grade a draft this fresh.
Sy seems to have had a really good track record these past couple drafts, so maybe the fact they drafted a lot of players he had highly rated bodes well for the Giants.
In a draft with Beckham, Richburg, and other contributors like Kennard and Bromley the Giants get a B or B- from nfl.com, sbnation, C+ from Pete Prisco, B from SI, but people are giving this one an A already.
hate to be the cliched one, too meaningless to grade a draft before a down has been played.
My disappointments had to do with leaking info on Conklin so that we lost out and picking Thompson instead of Simmons. But I do like Apple and I don't dislike Thompson. The rest were good picks.
probably got at best a C from BBI, not sure most of us are qualified to grade a draft this fresh.
Sy seems to have had a really good track record these past couple drafts, so maybe the fact they drafted a lot of players he had highly rated bodes well for the Giants.
In a draft with Beckham, Richburg, and other contributors like Kennard and Bromley the Giants get a B or B- from nfl.com, sbnation, C+ from Pete Prisco, B from SI, but people are giving this one an A already.
hate to be the cliched one, too meaningless to grade a draft before a down has been played.
Hey, it's just an exercise. A meaningless but fun one, imv
Where's the Beef ?
Felt like we let some DT & DE on the Table .
Lord Help that Our O-line stays Healthy .
Lastly did we Draft any Starters ?
I didn't really dislike any of the Picks
The FS in the 3rd needs to be the Goods
Sheppard is the Wildcard Hopefully he wins
the #2 Job and Runs with it .
If Apple doesn't start then this Draft is Less
than B
So what? Are you offended that I gave my opinion now matter how informed it is? I'm sorry that I can't predict the future as well as you, according to you.
probably got at best a C from BBI, not sure most of us are qualified to grade a draft this fresh.
Sy seems to have had a really good track record these past couple drafts, so maybe the fact they drafted a lot of players he had highly rated bodes well for the Giants.
In a draft with Beckham, Richburg, and other contributors like Kennard and Bromley the Giants get a B or B- from nfl.com, sbnation, C+ from Pete Prisco, B from SI, but people are giving this one an A already.
hate to be the cliched one, too meaningless to grade a draft before a down has been played.
Hey, it's just an exercise. A meaningless but fun one, imv
LOL, I know, I love the approach positionally, the write-ups, etc. I'd give it a B,
If a draft with Odell Beckham and Westom Richburg - to all-pro caliber players gets a B or B- from so-cslled experts then on April 30, I'm not giving this one an A.
1. B solid - all things considered, a puzzle piece
2. A + great complimentary player
3. A + smart pick, complimentary
4. C+ benefit of the doubt based on Sy, meh.
5. C+(positional repairs not finished yet, punt returner '+')
6. B+ what do you want here, good pick, move Tye to FB '+'
knocked this draft out of the park and maximized the value of each pick from each and every round (yes including rd 1). Im a natural cynic and chastiser but wow no qualms this weekend..Reese/Ross/Chris Mara/John Mara/Macadoo/Other relatives of the Mara/Tish family an who ever the hell I can blame for the past 6 seasons simply fucking killed it.
I couldnt me more proud of the Giants offseason and draft class and the adamancy of this franchise to not accept unfortunate inevitable end to Eli's career without a fight.
The Giants forced the Apple pick. He is big, fast, and athletic but he is not a top 10 quality of player. He has limited ball awareness and poor technique in putting hands on the receiver and grabbing. Needs a lot of good coaching.
Love the Sterling Shepard pick.
Many of these players have a chance to make the roster because of the new head coach. Any new head coach is likely to replace the favorites of the previous coach with his own guys.
as I don't pour over potential picks for several weeks or months like many here. I read the write-ups on the players we do pick.
I've been a firm believer that the group dynamic that picks the draft (it is NOT only Reese, contrary to the opinion of many) was going through a major shake up for this year. Maybe it's because I want to see it, but it's obvious the approach was different. Much more 'safe' picks and less risky long term projects trying to outsmart other teams who didn't take them. That's ok with me, because safe is how you build a solid team. you need to gamble once in a while, but the write ups certainly sound like we have a good likelihood of several solid/good players. give me that over one star and a bunch of duds any day.
The #Giants are done. Jerry Reese has now made 72 picks as GM. NEVER a trade down. 0-for-72. Simply amazing.
This is a little disturbing. It definitely speaks to our lack of depth. I wouldn't me upset about it happening less often than other teams in general, but never? If he values quality over quantity to that extent, he really needs to deliver on quality. It has improved (maybe) over the past few years, but not so much that it wouldn't be better to have more picks.
it's really interesting to see the impact having Macadoo in the room compared to TC was. This draft strategy feels very different from past years, and my initial reaction is to really like it
So what? Are you offended that I gave my opinion now matter how informed it is? I'm sorry that I can't predict the future as well as you, according to you.
You could at least try to improve the level to which you're informed, no?
I like Apple over Hargreaves because I wanted no part of Hargreaves
Wanted Floyd but was also scared of death at the same time if that makes sense. Conklin was my safe pick but not to upset because these OL guys are going to be cap eaters. Need Hart to come on strong for some cap relief. If not than you are looking at picking up a vet that will eat cap space.
Hell the Giants after next year will have an insane amount of money invested in those trenches.
Ben McAdoo: "The right side of the offensive line, the story is yet to be written. WEre just starting the 2016 offseason."
Hm... I hope it means that Hart is battling for a spot on the right side. But it sounds more like something is in the works. Why did those Anthony Davis toxic relationship with the Niners drop in the last two days?
Really solid draft - I don't think any of the picks were reaches
and all of them seem like talent guys who fill needs. Were there perhaps some better players along the way? Maybe. As always time will tell but first reaction is that the secondary is much better and there are more playmakers on offense. The trenches could still use some work.
I've seen much of Perkins but my younger brother just graduated from UCLA and is a huge Patriots fan and was practically begging the Pats to take him. When the Giants took him - he texted me and said "God damnit, you'll be seeing him in the pro bowl soon."
Only the failure to address the O-Line prevented me from giving it an A, but on balance this was a tremendous draft, especially on Day Three, where Reese & Co. really needed to get good, quality depth at the very least. I believe they succeeded in that.
Fact that the Giants drafted 6 players the could be significant contributors is either a sign of a great draft or bad team. That said, I am happy with this draft. Big time.
Marc Ross: "We spent a lot in the offseason on the D-line. We have some high draft picks on the O-line." Indicates they've invested plenty.
Same thought. I'm sure Abrams reminding everyone hey you know we got to pay these trench guys and keep enough for that WR deal you know is going right up.
But I'll say this, the picks made sense to me. I think they did a good job of addressing need. I can also see every pick contributing in a big way down the road. I have high hopes for mid and late round picks. I can't really say I've felt that way for a while.
The #Giants are done. Jerry Reese has now made 72 picks as GM. NEVER a trade down. 0-for-72. Simply amazing.
This is a little disturbing. It definitely speaks to our lack of depth. I wouldn't me upset about it happening less often than other teams in general, but never? If he values quality over quantity to that extent, he really needs to deliver on quality. It has improved (maybe) over the past few years, but not so much that it wouldn't be better to have more picks.
We don't do a good job of maximising the overall value of the draft. We're just not flexible. The strength of this draft were in the mid rounds. Other than Apple I think we've actually got good value for the players we picked (and even Apple isn't egregiously poor value; you're only talking 3 or 4 places if anything) but there's a good argument for saying some strategic trade downs would have given us another shot.
more the one draft pick while doing a mock in over 20 years, it's not as easy as it seems. I had the Giants selecting Shepard in round 2 and I wanted Giants selecting Adams in round 4 but instead he slid to round 6 and Giants pounced.
I really like what they did with this draft but like many others I was a bit surprised no OT was chosen. I feel the depth at interior OL is decent but that RT slot needs to be upgraded.
For now I would give this draft a generous A- because we really brought in some serious prospect talent in relation to some of our draft prior to 2013.
Looking forward to bringing in the BEST OT's remaining as UDFAs and then let's move on to camp.....
Their Best draft in years considering needs meet/value/complimenting current roster; and being short one pick
1-Apple- preferred Hargreaves or Treadwell but Apple is still top 15 value. immediately 3rd corner & will play a ton early; DRC's successor
2-Shep- Should already be 2nd best WR on roster (unless Cruz is 90% or better, unlikely). R.Cobb comparisons legit !!
3-D.thompson- Already the best Free Safety on roster, perfect compliment to L.Collins
4-Goodson- As Sy said, Don't see how he won't be starting by mid season
5-Perkins- He's already the best back on the Roster! he almost makes A.Williams useful as a short yardage/power compliment. Paul should start as soon as he has the playbook down!
6-Adams - Yet, another who's already best on the roster at his position. He may need more time to aliment but he's also a better blocker than what they have there.
Not because they didn't draft who I wanted...not that I know anything...or the position I wanted, but because there was a clear consensus for the first time I have ever seen, that each player picked had a value higher than where we picked him..
I follow Sy, and Sy loves these guys, so guess what? So do I. Plus, every player had so much positive write ups from other experts, not to mention most of our latter picks were projected to go higher. That is VALUE friends. A+, He'll yeah!
The bottom line is that I came away from this draft firmly convinced that Reese can find talent but has absolutely no idea of how to BUILD a winning team.
Apple = A-. Will get a lot of playing time this year but will not have to go against #1 receivers yet so he has time to learn.
Shepard = B+. Would have preferred a receiver to play the outside. Should get lots of touches this year.
Thompson = A. Had him as a 2nd round target on early mocks. Can earn a starting spot in camp.
Goodson = B. Haven't heard anything to dislike this pick. Could be quality depth.
Perkins = B. Head scratcher. Already a loaded backfield. Will have to beat out people to make the team.
Adams = A. I had him as a target in round 5. Will have to win the starting job but will see time as a situation player.
I think every single one these guys is on the team and contributes. If Cruz can give us anything this offense is scary, very scary. If Cruz returns to form none of our receivers can be covered man to man for than 2 seconds.
This has the potential to be the best Giants draft in a long time
A lot of very productive players, some very high ceilings as well. Almost all of these guys were considered great values for their round - seems like the only guy who they selected earlier than projected was Thompson, and even that is arguable as at least some scouting reports saw him as a second round talent. Every pick was at a position of need.
Everyone said Reese needed to hit a home run, and it's possible that he did just that.
Favorite picks are Apple & Adams. I liked Boyd better in the second, but these guys are professionals at this. Unlike just about everyone, I didn't like the Thompson pick. B+.
PS You can begin grading a draft the moment they hit the practice field. Just like a student. Every quiz, test, essay, take home, lecture whatever. Here it is practices, games and what they do after 17:00. Best of luck to the new Giants.
Should have not reached for Apple in Rd 1. Every mock had Hargreaves in top 10-12. Another young safety in Rd.3? Need a vet there. A 6th RB, seriously? The players chosen were OK but no wow factor for where they were picked. Didn't address 2 of the 3 top needs (LB, WR, OL) with the top picks. These guys may contribute but Reese missed out on a lot of players who would contribute more.
The Eli Apple pick, left me befuddled and depressed (with Biletnikoff Award winner [20 TDs in '05]), Corey Colman available.
(Maybe the Giants brass view Apple as the "JPP of corners"). I remember watching JPP college highlights, and thinking "why in the world" ?
I was wrong, they were right.(Pure physical ability trumped all).
Here's hoping (with that height and speed) that he can develop into a Richard Sherman type - I just don't see him ever as a Derrell Revis hard-press corner.
The local paper in Jax, on Thursday, had a page devoted to draft listings. All of the Giants draft choices were no worst than 13th in their listed any categories:
Apple - #3 DBs
Shepard - #7 WRs
Thompson - #13 DBs
Goodson - #13 LBs
Perkins - #12 RBs
Adams - #3 TEs
Should have not reached for Apple in Rd 1. Every mock had Hargreaves in top 10-12. Another young safety in Rd.3? Need a vet there. A 6th RB, seriously? The players chosen were OK but no wow factor for where they were picked. Didn't address 2 of the 3 top needs (LB, WR, OL) with the top picks. These guys may contribute but Reese missed out on a lot of players who would contribute more.
The #Giants are done. Jerry Reese has now made 72 picks as GM. NEVER a trade down. 0-for-72. Simply amazing.
This is a little disturbing. It definitely speaks to our lack of depth. I wouldn't me upset about it happening less often than other teams in general, but never? If he values quality over quantity to that extent, he really needs to deliver on quality. It has improved (maybe) over the past few years, but not so much that it wouldn't be better to have more picks.
Apple = A-. Will get a lot of playing time this year but will not have to go against #1 receivers yet so he has time to learn.
Shepard = B+. Would have preferred a receiver to play the outside. Should get lots of touches this year.
Thompson = A. Had him as a 2nd round target on early mocks. Can earn a starting spot in camp.
Goodson = B. Haven't heard anything to dislike this pick. Could be quality depth.
Perkins = B. Head scratcher. Already a loaded backfield. Will have to beat out people to make the team.
Adams = A. I had him as a target in round 5. Will have to win the starting job but will see time as a situation player.
Loaded backfield? With a bunch of marginal to mediocre backs.
Apple = A-. Will get a lot of playing time this year but will not have to go against #1 receivers yet so he has time to learn.
Shepard = B+. Would have preferred a receiver to play the outside. Should get lots of touches this year.
Thompson = A. Had him as a 2nd round target on early mocks. Can earn a starting spot in camp.
Goodson = B. Haven't heard anything to dislike this pick. Could be quality depth.
Perkins = B. Head scratcher. Already a loaded backfield. Will have to beat out people to make the team.
Adams = A. I had him as a target in round 5. Will have to win the starting job but will see time as a situation player.
How do we have a loaded backfield? We have bodies. Not many players.
Should have not reached for Apple in Rd 1. Every mock had Hargreaves in top 10-12. Another young safety in Rd.3? Need a vet there. A 6th RB, seriously? The players chosen were OK but no wow factor for where they were picked. Didn't address 2 of the 3 top needs (LB, WR, OL) with the top picks. These guys may contribute but Reese missed out on a lot of players who would contribute more.
There were so many holes to fill, especially in the secondary and linebacker corps, and the need for another WR was so great, it's hard to say. But the team seems to have been strengthened.
The #Giants are done. Jerry Reese has now made 72 picks as GM. NEVER a trade down. 0-for-72. Simply amazing.
This is a little disturbing. It definitely speaks to our lack of depth. I wouldn't me upset about it happening less often than other teams in general, but never? If he values quality over quantity to that extent, he really needs to deliver on quality. It has improved (maybe) over the past few years, but not so much that it wouldn't be better to have more picks.
Im not a JR hater, but that's pathetic.
It is. Incredible.
I grade drafts differently...I view it as comparable to the NFL East
The first round was a "C".....not because I do not Like the Apple pick...the more I read....the more I Love the Pick!
But the low grade was based on the Eagles getting the top rated QB, Dallas getting the top rated RB and Washington arguably getting the top rated WR....while we got our 3rd Corner....the other guys improved more then us....not good.
Apple: Would have gone Hargreaves but understand if they wanted a tall corner for the future to pair up with Jenkins.
Shepard: Really wanted a tall wideout for our red zone woes (and would even have gone Doctson in Round 1) but if they really like Shepard, OK, I'll watch.
Thompson: This is the one that I can't reconcile because he and Justin Simmons are similar players except that Simmons is demonstrably, and by far, the better athlete. They made a mistake on Landon C last year by ignoring bad combine info and they have doubled down by making Thompson the FS complement.
Goodson: No real problem with it.
Perkins: Like it a lot.
Adams: Fine, need another option than Donnell and Tye is too short for the regular TE role.
to give the Giants an A, because of what transpired in the first round. I'm wondering if the Giants had "got their guy" at 10, to the common names mentioned(Floyd or Conklin) if the feelings here would be a bit different. You always want the guys who were projected to go higher, and they somehow fall to you. It makes it seem like your made out like bandits. When you take a guy who wasn't even mentioned in the conversation, like Apple(some had mentioned him, but not the asshats or the beat writers really), then you feel like it was a reach, or the pick was questionable. For all the people thinking the Giants needed to fix the leak, the did a good job of letting beat writers and even asshats that they had potential interest in Heargraves, only to find out that they had Apple rated higher all along.
I think of all the players that were linked to the Giants at 10, Heargraves was the one I wanted least, because I kept reading that he may not even be the best corner in the draft, or that some guys behind him had higher ceilings. I never looked into Apple though. However, on draftnight reading the writeup from Sy and Dave, and then going back and taking a harder look at Apple:the only difference between Apple and Floyd is that Apples name wasn't getting leaked to the media for weeks on end(or asshats). So, I don't feel like a lack of media leakage should affect the grade or perception of a pick. A few days ago, one of the posters made a comparison chart with grades from NFL.com, from Dave Te and from Sy..with about 20 first rounders on, hand selected players. I modified to carry a composite grade, joining the rankings from all 3 and then sorting it. He left Eli Apple off the list, so I went back and looked up his grade from all 3..and then compared it to the chart. His composite grade placed him #9 overall, ahead of both Conklin and Floyd. That's a high upside pick(just like Floyd would have been), at a premium position and it also fills a need(DRC may be gone next year).
I think the Giants absolutely crushed the rest of the draft, I think I am happier about the mid round picks than I have been in a long time. I think this might be the draft where they get real contributions from guys past the 2nd round.(Even the 3rd round safety, that was Gil Brandt's 52nd ranked player)
I think this was one of the stronger Giants drafts in recent memory, and one that Reese really needed. I think it's an A draft.
You're right, I didn't give it an 'A' because they didn't get the OT I wanted (Conklin), or any other OT for that matter. But, as I wrote earlier, on balance I thought it was a tremendous draft.
Draft did not fall right for us in the 1st rd. The Bong threw everything haywire. Reese made the best of it, and moved on. I wanted a starting ROT, but very happy we didn't force the need with some practice squad fat ass that can't play (we've done that enough times). Every round after 1 was great value. I love the Sheppard, Gibson, Perkins, & Adams picks. Thompson probably Starts by October, and I believe Perkins is better then any we have.
Somehow need to get the right side of O-line up to speed. Don't know if Davis option from SF is still available but we need a better solution at RT. Can't fix it all I understand but this is a true weakness.
But I thought the offense got a stud in Shepard whether Cruz works out or not.
I like Apple and Perkins a lot and truly believe they contribute a lot in 2016 but true value will shine in 2017 when those positions turnover.
Should have not reached for Apple in Rd 1. Every mock had Hargreaves in top 10-12. Another young safety in Rd.3? Need a vet there. A 6th RB, seriously? The players chosen were OK but no wow factor for where they were picked. Didn't address 2 of the 3 top needs (LB, WR, OL) with the top picks. These guys may contribute but Reese missed out on a lot of players who would contribute more.
Didn't address WR with our 2nd Rd pick?
Who are some of you people?
Well we know who you are - someone who can't read. I said "Didn't address 2 of top 3..." Obviously the 1 that was addressed was WR.
Leonard Floyd and any 4th round CB, had it worked out that way...I believe they got caught flat-footed with Apple, but if you consider that we picked Eli up a year early, at age 20, vs him being a Top-5 pick in 2017, then we got a steal.
I love the Shepard pick...I'm ok with Thompson, but would have preferred OL or DL help.
unhappy fans, most of BBI expresses what a great draft it was, and how that will impact the upcoming season. Hell, we're fans, what else are we going to do? But viewed with detachment, if the Giants have been having wonderful drafts, and achieving the results they've been achieving, then other teams must be having All Universe level drafts.
So, while I particularly like both Shepard and Goodson, frankly, I'm not excited by the other picks. (Though I know Sy thinks otherwise, so what do I know?) But until proved otherwise I'll give this draft a solid "C." (Which historically, would be an improvement.)
Should have not reached for Apple in Rd 1. Every mock had Hargreaves in top 10-12. Another young safety in Rd.3? Need a vet there. A 6th RB, seriously? The players chosen were OK but no wow factor for where they were picked. Didn't address 2 of the 3 top needs (LB, WR, OL) with the top picks. These guys may contribute but Reese missed out on a lot of players who would contribute more.
First of all, Apple was not a reach. Mock drafts don't mean squat. And CB was, without question, a pressing need. You need, at minimum, three starting-caliber CBs these days. We had two. Now we have three.
We don't need a veteran safety. We need to stay healthier at the position than we have been for a couple of years and give our young safeties the reps they need.
The RB we just drafted is better than any RB we have on the roster now.
The LB we just drafted is most likely better than any LB we have on the roster now. At the very least, he isn't burdened with an injury history like Kennard and Robinson.
The failure to address the O-Line is more a product of the Tunsil factor and how it affected the few decent OT prospects at the top. Stanley went early and Tennessee had the juice to move up ahead of us and take Conklin. Clearly, the Giants had Apple graded higher than Decker, and as a matter of fact, so did NFL.com.
As for the players Reese missed who would have contributed more, go ahead, name them.
Good players but with so many defensive linemen it's ridiculous the Giants selected none. Not to mention, they added no OL. An entire draft and no linemen? They went all need.
address some needs for a team that has been neglected, but ignored the difference making positions (LOS) instead favoring playmaker types, something that will likely come back to haunt Reese.
Some hits and misses. But largely, I didn't see us controlling the board and getting extra picks. Did we really need to take Thompson where we did? Needed some help on right side and the way to do that was to trade down and get another pick in the late fourth/early fifth. We didn't add a D Tackle in draft historic for depth this position.
liked Shepard, Adams, and Apple.
Didn't like Thompson.
Indifferent, thought we could have done better .. Paul Perkins, Goodson.
I'm rooting for all these guy now, but the take away is .. We need to learn to trade down.
Which is the right side of the OLine. In fairness The Giants had so many holes 6 players were not going to fill them all. They could not afford to trade up and give up any picks. When TN jumped I knew the chances of Conklin were gone. Never had a chance at Stanley and Tunsil is a risk. I would have thought though a guard would have helped in the 3rd or 4th round.
If the two top linebackers in the draft were not injured it would have gone better. This was a draft of need. I laugh when I hear things like "he was at the top of our board" or the story on right tackle is not yet written. Top flight tackles do not grow on trees boys. Always takes a few years to evaluate. Perhaps a trade down might have allowed them to fill more of the holes. Guess the offers were not good enough.
Jerry has bet his future on these picks. He screws it up does he get yet another chance? For his (and the NY Giants) sake I hope he is right. I also hope he finds a tree growing offensive lineman (that can move people) because we missed on our chance. Jerry knows it better than any of us.
Go GIANTS!!
Plus some questionable free-agent signings, combined with a ridiculous amount of catastrophic injuries, virtually the entire roster was devoid of talent, except for a few positions. Almost anyone drafted would have filled a need, real or imagined.
This draft felt different, and in a good way. I don't know if the Giants actually changed anything meaningful in their approach, but the results sure seem different to me. All high quality young men, most at positions to make big impacts on the team and with room to grow. Would have graded out higher if only it wasn't so easy to match value with need this year because of all the many holes in the roster. Hope my optimism is justified.
give it an A- or B+
love the players they selected and think the last 2 picks could be some of the best reese has had since 2007 in the later rounds.however i think they needed OT in round 3 or 4 hawkins was there to be had at thier pick and OT was a bigger need than ILB at that pick its hard to be mad at the value they got thou
if you were grading solely on the guys he drafted it would be A+ but the RB doesnt get you what he should if the OL isnt upto scratch the gulf beween the left and right side of the OL is astounding as is the failure to address it,if the pass protection isnt what they need it to be the WR and TE are not as successful as they should be either
they may still be options to either sign a FA or maybe trade a later round pick in next years draft for an OT
if they can manage that its reese's best draft to date
Love this draft,great job.I wanted Shepard in the third round LOL.I love every pick rare draft where I feel like that.The last pick was awesome,Perkins is a great choice,we got a centefielder too.We got faster today.
in the division apple makes alot of sense he is one of the fastest CB in the draft in a long time that is over 6 FT tall
he looks like being the guy they hoped prince would be but wasnt quite.
prince was a good solid player he just never turned into the outright star corner he was billed as being he wanted way too much money,wanted star money for solid starter play and the giants clearly had thier eye on apple to replace him
nobody had OBJ as being the superstar player he has become either if apple has half the effect he had on the giants it could make them far better.
all the so called "experts" had tunsil as first pick overall and jack in the top 5 before the trade ups happened
kiper in particular is awful, touts himself as a draft expert gets way more picks wrong than anybody
is a fun exercise for all of us amateurs here. We have our own opinions about perceived need vs. perceived value. But only the coaches (need) and scouts (value) have the real inside info. So let's not get too bent out of shape about what each other, or the talking heads thinks.
On a personal level, I don't much care about floors, ceilings, upside or downside. Round 1 I wanted RT, Conklin or Decker. Get the line fixed. I've wanted Shepherd since late last year. Got him - happy. Wanted Davis from Maryland in the 3rd. Got Thompson - OK. Picks 4-6 seem to be guys that will make the team and contribute in their respective rotations.
Overall, I think Reese did a good, solid job. I give him a B+, because of no linemen.
If you didn't like the draft, you should look at your own ignorance (compared to a LOT of scouts, millions of dollars at their disposal, actual game tapes, etc) and see what YOU'RE missing.
You may be right in some cases but if the system didn't work, this organization wouldn't have so many Championships.
You assholes giving "D" grades...Sorry that your lives are that pathetic that it blurs what you see.
Very solid draft at positions of need and the past late round reaches were not present. Hopefully an adjustment was made to stay disciplined and focused throughout the entire draft and not call it a day after the first few picks turning it over to the B team.
Should have not reached for Apple in Rd 1. Every mock had Hargreaves in top 10-12. Another young safety in Rd.3? Need a vet there. A 6th RB, seriously? The players chosen were OK but no wow factor for where they were picked. Didn't address 2 of the 3 top needs (LB, WR, OL) with the top picks. These guys may contribute but Reese missed out on a lot of players who would contribute more.
First of all, Apple was not a reach. Mock drafts don't mean squat. And CB was, without question, a pressing need. You need, at minimum, three starting-caliber CBs these days. We had two. Now we have three.
We don't need a veteran safety. We need to stay healthier at the position than we have been for a couple of years and give our young safeties the reps they need.
The RB we just drafted is better than any RB we have on the roster now.
The LB we just drafted is most likely better than any LB we have on the roster now. At the very least, he isn't burdened with an injury history like Kennard and Robinson.
The failure to address the O-Line is more a product of the Tunsil factor and how it affected the few decent OT prospects at the top. Stanley went early and Tennessee had the juice to move up ahead of us and take Conklin. Clearly, the Giants had Apple graded higher than Decker, and as a matter of fact, so did NFL.com.
As for the players Reese missed who would have contributed more, go ahead, name them.
no late round reaches like last year with Mykkele Thompson and Geremy davis.
Agree Bill... Last year left a bad image in my mind with Chris Mara leaving after day two to watch his horse in the Kentucky derby and the responses to the questions on h leaving were basically we already did our work - and that's horseshit ( no pun intended). You stay in the room and finish the entire draft process if this is your job and you stay focused trying to determine the best pick every round - everyone that's started inside the process from pick 1.
when these guys haven't played a single game in the NFL yet. Not even a pre-season game. Hell, not even a practice. On paper this draft looks okay. But in these threads the past few years, alot of people liked those drafts as well and look at how a number of those turned out..
Who the heck knows at this point? It's fun to speculate, but we won't know about this draft class until everyone gets on the field. But it sure looks like we filled some positions of need.
10 seems a little high for a CB. That's a technique position which is very difficult to play well as a rook. I think a killer pass rush makes good DBs and not the other way around. I would have liked a sure thing and an immediate impact at 10 but who the heck doesn't want that? I like the book on the WR and I love getting a RB in the draft as opposed to FA.
F? Seriously? Nearly every pick other than Apple was given high marks by most of the draft "experts" out there - and even Apple was mostly considered a solid selection after the dust settled.
This team has no chance of going into Seattle and winning a playoff game.
Which is what it's going to have to do, to get back the SB.
So what Red Dog said. Poorly constructed Fantasy Football team. That's what this team is.
i agree that they are going to fare poorly this year and I've stated why many times. But the draft itself was excellent I think. Just not enough to do what's needed. More a function of where they were starting from than this weekend.
that turned out to be trash too. So spare me the experts opinions, at best they don't know anymore then MiS did.
Almost beat Carolina? No you mean Carolina almost choked as anyone watched that fiasco should remember. The Panthers took their foot off the gas and went into prevent mode. Always remember when they needed to ice the game, they did so without hesitation.
And yes this is a bad, bad team. If Jints central is determined to rely on the combination of John Jerry, Marshall Newhouse and Bobby Hart to protect Eli, I fear for his health this year.
If Jints central is determined to rely on the combination of John Jerry, Marshall Newhouse and Bobby Hart to protect Eli, I fear for his health this year.
But that's who they relied on last year and his health was just fine. But I do hope you'll keep posting this over and over and over and over because it couldn't say less about the Giants and couldn't say more about you.
you are off your rocker. What previous drafts did everyone "love"?? The past three drafts - most experts and folks here in BBI had similar thoughts - that we did well in rounds 1-2 but the later rounds were a huge question mark - in players there were even considered ready to make a roster much less contribute right away.
With this draft, we just took 5 players that could start opening day, or at the very least log significant playing time. That's a big fucking difference.
thing to not like a draft and say which picks you disagreed with. But to look at an unbiased view of this draft and the talent we got - to say it was a F - you have zero clue.
1st round = Would have gone with Tunsil but not too upset about the him vs Hargraeves thing. Makes sense to plan for the future. Apple rose up a lot the past few weeks similar to Beckham last year which is good? I think it takes a year or two to pan out but he can be solid. Curious to see how he'll be used this year - a pure slot CB or will Jenkins play slot in Nickle and Dime and Apple the outside
2nd round = Great pick - huge fan. Curious to see if he'll be used in slot, outside, or both, but a perfect guy.
3rd round = Indifferent. The skillset and need was there. Was hoping to capitalize on the strong talent up front though. Little concerned at the speed as well.
4th round = Nice pick and should push Herlizch and Unga off the roster due to ST ability. Nice to get a fundamentally sound player rather than a project at LB.
5th round = Great pick. Happy to have a little bit of diversity skillset wise at RB for the first time in awhile. More pro-ready than some other lower round RB's the past few years.
6th round = Another solid pick. When talking about the blocking problems people forget that TE has been a big part of the issues the past few years. Meyers was terrible in '13 and Donnell hasn't been great the past two years (neither has Tye). A #2 blocking TE was needed and Adams provides that. His skillset offensively should be fine enough to use him in pinches (good seam route runner).
Overall a B+. I'm one of those that wish the 1st and 3rd rounders could have been used to beef up the line but it's okay. I think DL is not as safe as people think despite the FA haul so a bit concerned.
1st round = Would have gone with Tunsil but not too upset about the him vs Hargraeves thing. Makes sense to plan for the future. Apple rose up a lot the past few weeks similar to Beckham last year which is good? I think it takes a year or two to pan out but he can be solid. Curious to see how he'll be used this year - a pure slot CB or will Jenkins play slot in Nickle and Dime and Apple the outside
2nd round = Great pick - huge fan. Curious to see if he'll be used in slot, outside, or both, but a perfect guy.
3rd round = Indifferent. The skillset and need was there. Was hoping to capitalize on the strong talent up front though. Little concerned at the speed as well.
4th round = Nice pick and should push Herlizch and Unga off the roster due to ST ability. Nice to get a fundamentally sound player rather than a project at LB.
5th round = Great pick. Happy to have a little bit of diversity skillset wise at RB for the first time in awhile. More pro-ready than some other lower round RB's the past few years.
6th round = Another solid pick. When talking about the blocking problems people forget that TE has been a big part of the issues the past few years. Meyers was terrible in '13 and Donnell hasn't been great the past two years (neither has Tye). A #2 blocking TE was needed and Adams provides that. His skillset offensively should be fine enough to use him in pinches (good seam route runner).
Overall a B+. I'm one of those that wish the 1st and 3rd rounders could have been used to beef up the line but it's okay. I think DL is not as safe as people think despite the FA haul so a bit concerned.
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Good post, young man...Whether I agree or not is not relevant, well thought out & written, bravo.
When a team is drafting in the top 10, that team only gets an "A" from me if the draft produces a 10 year starter who is a game changer like Simms, LT, Banks, or Manning.
I don't know if the Giants accomplished that. Hopefully this was their last chance at drafting in the top 10 for another 20 years. I hope they didn't blow their opportunity last year and this year.
Here's the greatest string of top 10 picks in Giants history (6 in 7 years) that led to two Super Bowls
1978 10 Gordon King OT
1979 7 Phil Simms QB
1980 8 Mark Haynes DB
1981 2 Lawrence Taylor LB
*1982 18th pick
1983 10 Terry Kinard DB
1984 3 Carl Banks LB
The last time the Giants had back to back top 10 picks:
1996 5 Cedric Jones DE
1997 7 Ike Hilliard WR
Keeping my fingers crossed.
I think it was an acceptable draft, but I often get the feeling that
I like all of the picks except Thompson. I questioned the Apple pick, but he is a top rated prospect at a premium position, from a premium school. My issue is no choices on either side of the line in a very deep draft for both. So I'd probably go a solid B.
looks like they added some solid guys. None of the high ceiling low floor project picks that Reese used to love nor any mystery players like Thompson and Davis last year. Apple, Perkins and Shephard are the ones I have the highest hopes for. Wish they could have gotten a RT.
and have gone DL. But, overal, on paper I think this is the best draft they've had in a long time. Just about every player has a shot to contribute right away and Perkins is already our best RB (he won't start right away). I'd grade this a B+ to A-.
we drafted needs across the board and we did have a lot of needs. Seems like some good players. I know a lot people wanted an RT/RG, but had we gotten one with our first 4 picks we'd be talking about how CB, WR, FS, or LB were neglected. Our defense was trash last year and we spent a ton in FA and 3 of our first 4 picks on the defense including the 10th overall pick. Can't compete with the defense we fielded last year. Remember we put up 35 against the Panthers defense and still lost...
I like Apple's aggressiveness, even the way he launches his body
at the receiver. He may still have to learn the trick of looking back for the football in the air, which lets you get away with a lot more contact.
His other problem, on which most seem to agree, is to learn to keep his hands from grabbing or otherwise contacting the receiver, or in this era he'll be drawing flags all the time.
His "highlight" film on ESPN seemed mostly to be of plays where he got flagged for interference or holding, so maybe he's not as bad as they made him look.
On the OL, the Giants have as starters 2015 pick 9, 2013 pick 19, and 2014 pick 43. I don't think that they need or even should have all top 50 players on the line. They should be able to find one or two good vets like Shaun O'Hara to fit in for a few years and provide veteran experience.
The Cowboys have three round ones on their OL, but they also have 32 year old Doug Free and UFA La'el Collins. Collins it is said would have been first or second round talent but was undrafted because of fear he might be implicated in the shooting death of a former girl friend.
Collins might be a first or second round talent, but he sure isn't being paid as one and he sure is going to want to be paid like one soon.
Dallas may have over-spent on the OL at the expense of a punchless defense. If they still had Demarcus Ware and Kevin Hardy, their defense would be a lot more scary. Sean Lee is a very good player, but I don't think is the game-changer like the other two, and he is having trouble staying on the field.
This was the best draft the Giants have had in a long time. All six of these draftees have a good chance to be an eventual starter. If you can 6 starters out of 6 picks, that's as good as it gets.
I think Apple, Shepard, and Perkins could be future all Pro players. I think Apple (slot CB) and Thompson (FS) will be immediate starters. Shepard and Goodson should be heavy contributors as well. I think Perkins will get a little playing time, and Adams will mostly sit this year.
1)Apple A-: damn good CB, but it was a shocker. Probably will be better than Floyd.
2) Shepard A: WR likened to Cruz is a hell of a pick up, although I was hoping we could get Jack if he fell and I would have taken Ragland as he was a 1st round talent and went the very next pick and I miss the days when we were known for our LBs.
3) Thompson B: He's got faults, but he gets turnovers. Would have like to get Billings for value here.
4) Goodson B-: I don't believe he's fast enough and will have to be taken out on 3rd downs. Still would have taken Billings here for value or even Perkins. He's a good run stopper, but he's never going to be a pro bowler.
5) Perkins A: Almost as good as Elliott. A Tiki like player was an unexpected haul here.
6) Adams B+: Getting a potential TE starter in the 6th round was about as good as I could imagine. This is the kind of draft pick the Giants haven't been making in the past.
Tunsil would have been really nice at RT as would Conklin and been talented insurance at LT if Flowers really struggled in pass pro but it is what it is. Apple fills a more glaring need than Floyd if he can really step in and man that slot/nickel corner which killed us last year. Would have taken the high octane Jonathan Bullard who could bring instant juice to the interior pass rush over Darian Thompson, a really productive college player who I could see struggling in the pros. Love Goodson and love Sheppard as two guys who should step in and be major contributors right away. Perkins might be close to a steal. Really hope he shakes up that backfield. Jerrell Adams is basically Larry Donnell v2.0 so not really sure what the appeal was with that pick, a not very sure handed big bodied guy with athletic upside that isn't much of a blocker? So all in all a pretty good high floor low ceiling kind of draft that plugged some holes and brought guys that can compete right away for major roles. Reese & Co seem to be getting smarter at where they draw the line between risk and reward. It was the diametric opposite of the Cowboys who went total boom or bust with the players they selected.
We went into a draft whos major strength and value was DL
and didn't use a pick there. That's either crazy or brilliant.
I would say while I like all the picks (Apple has grown on me as a future pick although for this year it's worrying that he's never played the Nickel), but I think we've done a poorish job of maximizing our options is a middle heavy draft.
I think if we had a bit more flexibility given all the horse trading which was going on we could have picked up a couple of extra picks and largely had a similar draft. Reese for better or worse seems to have little inclination for acquiring picks. I'm not saying to go to the extremes of NE but I refuse to believe there were no good value opportunities (although I imagine few teams bother to offer the Giants much given the apparent unwillingness to trade down)
that turned out to be trash too. So spare me the experts opinions, at best they don't know anymore then MiS did.
Almost beat Carolina? No you mean Carolina almost choked as anyone watched that fiasco should remember. The Panthers took their foot off the gas and went into prevent mode. Always remember when they needed to ice the game, they did so without hesitation.
And yes this is a bad, bad team. If Jints central is determined to rely on the combination of John Jerry, Marshall Newhouse and Bobby Hart to protect Eli, I fear for his health this year.
You must be a blast at parties. Seriously been posting here for a while and I don't think you made one non-negative (forget positive) post since you've been here. The team isn't winning a Super Bowl but your general negativity and hyperbole is ridiculous.
Probably my favorite draft overall since I've been paying attention to the draft in 2000.
Eli Apple was a surprise. I wasn't expecting a CB at all, but I like the player. I'm a lifelong Gators fan and Apple was my top CB (Ramsey at Safety). I like him in the NFL much better the VH3. He's got good size & speed. Very fluid hips. Maybe the best hips in the draft. You can't teach that. He's very young with a lot of experience already. If we can coach him well I think he can be a top 5 cover corner in the NFL.
Shepard was my #2 WR behind Doctson. A lot of people are mentioning him as strictly a slot player & I think that is absurd. I don't think he should be played in any single spot. That's what I like about our top 4 WRs. They can play from anywhere. It's going to be almost impossible to match up 1 on 1 with them. He's going to make an impact right away & I would not be surprised to see him have around 800 yards & 6-8 TDs this year.
Darian Thompson was my #4 Safety. I had Ramsey, Joseph & Bell over him. Thompson is a great fit next to Collins. We finally have a playmaking FS who can be that center fielder we've been looking for. Also allows Collins to play closer to the LOS. Between DRC, Janoris & Thompson there should be a lot of INTs this year.
BJ Goodson was probably my least favorite pick of ours. I had him as my #8 LB. He was behind Jack, Floyd, Smith, Lee, Ragland, Brothers, Perry. I still like him a lot. Everytime I watched Shaq/Dodd the guy who stood at was Goodson. It wouldn't shock me if he was one of our starting LBs this year. I'd assume at MIKE, but they could play him over JT Thomas at WILL. Doesn't miss tackles & is just a really stout reliable player. It'll be a lot better seeing him in coverage over Unga/Herzlich.
Paul Perkins is my favorite pick of ours. My #2 RB behind Zeke. Everytime I watched him I thought Tiki Barber. He has great vision & can change directions on a dime. Very good receiver with 80 receptions in college. Sy says in his write up that he's not sure if he is an every down RB. I really think he can be. I think he will be the top guy in 2017. Idk if he will get 20 touched a game, but I could definitely see him getting 12-15.
Jerrell Adams was my #4 TE behind Henry, Vannett & Hooper. Probably would have been #3, but Hooper is more NFL ready. Based on upside I think Adams could be the best TE in the draft. He's 6'5 250 with almost 35 inch arms. That's OT arm length. Good receiving ability who can get in between LBs & Safeties. Should be able to make plays down the seam in the NFL. I believe Reese said he's a better blocker then receiver. I don't see that with him, but I'll take their word for it. He's a more then willing blocker at least. Should be able to turn himself into a good blocker with the right coaching. I've seen people say he has off the field problems, but I couldn't find any arrests/drug problems.
It's fun to follow the draft on the last day and read about your
players strengths and grade them, but historically, not just with the Giants but all teams, if you get one good starter from picks 4-7 you had a good draft.
If you get two solid starters, you've had a great draft.
I think Adams has a good chance of taking over at tight end. Kiper had him ranked as the best TE in the draft, eight spots above Hunter Henry.
There are a couple of players who I wouldn't have selected. Unless you are Sy (very uncanny this year), that will be the case for most people most drafts. But, that shouldn't qualify the draft as a D or F.
At his very early stage, we obviously can't grade the draft on performance. We have to go on expectations, filled needs value, etc. Calling this draft a failure because of no OL or DL is living in a bubble.
First, unfortunately, there were still big needs elsewhere, which they filled. Second, the only OL they were seriously considering were taken before they selected. After that, I really wouldn't have selected on for the sake of it, especially in the late rounds where they got great value at other positions. Third, they addressed DL in a big way in FA. Fourth, they drafted a RB who very likely is already their best RB, a LB who is one of our top 3, a CB who immediately jumps to the #3 spot (like a starter), and a WR who will either be the #2 or 3 WR.
That's 4 of 6 picks that should have an immediate significant role and impact. The S remains to be seen, but it at least seems we will be willing to cut some dead weight in the secondary. The TE has a nice ceiling and should make the team. Maybe you like an OL there, but please stop acting like an OL in round 5 or 6 would be anything more than a project.
So, you may not think this is an A draft and that is fine. But, right now, it hardly seems as anything remotely close to a C or worse.
Give me a break. They reached at #1 and didn't draft one lineman b/c they're so desperate to fill so many holes created by arrogantly drafting the best available athletes for years.
Like the draft - no grade really, but i like the players
1. Eli Apple
Short Term: If he can cover a Jordan Reed in the slot, if he can lock up the 3rd WR, that's a huge win. Giants were getting killed on 3rd down by these guys.
Long Term: DRC's eventual cost effective replacement
2. Sterling Shepard
Short Term: I think of all those critical drive killing 3rd down drops from Parker and Randle. If Shepard can win those, huge win!
Long Terms: Cruz's murky future insurance.
3. Darian Thompson
Short Term: Basically can compete for an immediate need. Would love to see someone emerge.
Long Term: Can he be the FS?
4. BJ Goodson
Short Term: Specials and a great size/speed guy. Was captain, can backup the Mike and learn.
Long Term: Vie for a starting role
5. Paul Perkins
Short Term: Cap Cut for Vereen? Unlikely, but I see him i sub packages.
Long Term: Vereen future replacement
6. Jerell Adams
Short Term: Really just learning. Looks awkward and spindly, does not look as fast as he times. Hit the books and get stronger.
Long Term: Compete with Tye for TE spot.
OT - I 100% believe they have a plan here. They have a ton of money left and vets will be cut. They will not be going with Newhouse.
Every player they drafted has a realistic chance of playing
significant minutes, if not actually starting. Even their last player picked. When was the last time you could say that? IIRC, every player picked, even their last player picked, was ranked in the top 5 or so at his position by at least one expert. When was the last time you could say that? So, you're going to downgrade them because they didn't use a draft spot to pick a random OL guy or two or three, none of who would displace the crap that we already have starting for us? Patently ridiculous.
Although I expressed my "A" last night, you (Rick) are one of the handful of talent evaluators here who has earned my respect with your insight and occasional inside info. Glad you concur. I think the Giants really took advantage of the depth on the lines to take players at great values who fell at the other positions of need. As much as I wanted a starting caliber offensive tackle I believe the way the draft fell, they continued to get better value then forcing a big ugly on either line.
Probably my favorite draft overall since I've been paying attention to the draft in 2000.
Eli Apple was a surprise. I wasn't expecting a CB at all, but I like the player. I'm a lifelong Gators fan and Apple was my top CB (Ramsey at Safety). I like him in the NFL much better the VH3. He's got good size & speed. Very fluid hips. Maybe the best hips in the draft. You can't teach that. He's very young with a lot of experience already. If we can coach him well I think he can be a top 5 cover corner in the NFL.
Shepard was my #2 WR behind Doctson. A lot of people are mentioning him as strictly a slot player & I think that is absurd. I don't think he should be played in any single spot. That's what I like about our top 4 WRs. They can play from anywhere. It's going to be almost impossible to match up 1 on 1 with them. He's going to make an impact right away & I would not be surprised to see him have around 800 yards & 6-8 TDs this year.
Darian Thompson was my #4 Safety. I had Ramsey, Joseph & Bell over him. Thompson is a great fit next to Collins. We finally have a playmaking FS who can be that center fielder we've been looking for. Also allows Collins to play closer to the LOS. Between DRC, Janoris & Thompson there should be a lot of INTs this year.
BJ Goodson was probably my least favorite pick of ours. I had him as my #8 LB. He was behind Jack, Floyd, Smith, Lee, Ragland, Brothers, Perry. I still like him a lot. Everytime I watched Shaq/Dodd the guy who stood at was Goodson. It wouldn't shock me if he was one of our starting LBs this year. I'd assume at MIKE, but they could play him over JT Thomas at WILL. Doesn't miss tackles & is just a really stout reliable player. It'll be a lot better seeing him in coverage over Unga/Herzlich.
Paul Perkins is my favorite pick of ours. My #2 RB behind Zeke. Everytime I watched him I thought Tiki Barber. He has great vision & can change directions on a dime. Very good receiver with 80 receptions in college. Sy says in his write up that he's not sure if he is an every down RB. I really think he can be. I think he will be the top guy in 2017. Idk if he will get 20 touched a game, but I could definitely see him getting 12-15.
Jerrell Adams was my #4 TE behind Henry, Vannett & Hooper. Probably would have been #3, but Hooper is more NFL ready. Based on upside I think Adams could be the best TE in the draft. He's 6'5 250 with almost 35 inch arms. That's OT arm length. Good receiving ability who can get in between LBs & Safeties. Should be able to make plays down the seam in the NFL. I believe Reese said he's a better blocker then receiver. I don't see that with him, but I'll take their word for it. He's a more then willing blocker at least. Should be able to turn himself into a good blocker with the right coaching. I've seen people say he has off the field problems, but I couldn't find any arrests/drug problems.
In regards to Adams off field issues, I searched everywhere and all I can find is, hopefully correctable work ethic knocks in the training room and class room.
I absolutely agree. I'd have loved an OT, but I can't find where one would have been a better pick then the guy we got.
The only round I can find is in the 1st with Tunsil. Whose a complete stud, but had a ton of problems in college. Was arrested for domestic assault, Nkemdiche threw him under the bus, the gas mask thing & was suspended 7 games in 2015 for taking benefits. I personally have no problem with any one of those things, but it seems to be problem after problem for him. Not to mention he never played a full season in college football. I would have loved to take the chance, but after us having to deal with Will Hill & the stuff going on with Manziel/Josh Gordon I completely understand why the Giants didn't take the chance.
I'm praying that they have a deal in place for Anthony Davis when he comes back from retirement. I'm not counting on it, but I have hope. I just assume they are working on something to upgrade the RT position. The interest in Okung/Clady/Schwartz shows that the Giants know they need to upgrade the position. We will see!!
guys. Football talent, big schools, key needs more or less addressed. It adds up to a strategic, carefully thought out, approach to the draft crapshoot. Well done Giants. On a pass/fail, exceeds expectations, grading system, Exceeds.
Tough to grade right now. On paper, I decided to look at the updated depth chart for a frame of reference. Eric may have wanted to give the respect to the current starters and that makes sense. Respectfully, I see that all of the draft picks are currently listed as depth and not starters. Regardless of risk or reputation of a certain player, I think the healthy debate that occurs when grading this draft is this - if you were to draft Tunsil and then Jack, again regardless of injury or character concerns, the depth chart would read with two definite new starters. I just think those two picks would stand out in the starting lineup without much debate. They made some quality picks and these players will certainly help but safe and depth comes to mind initially, so mostly like in the B range.
This team has no chance of going into Seattle and winning a playoff game.
Which is what it's going to have to do, to get back the SB.
So what Red Dog said. Poorly constructed Fantasy Football team. That's what this team is.
IMO, the roster is closer to an F than the draft. Of course, the F for the roster is the direct results of past drafts which so many loved.
This front office has an arrogance about them when quotes appear including "we got the best player", "we've heard this before", etc, etc. when year after year many of e picks fail to develop and the win loss record doesn't improve.
All we can do is watch what happens b/c we all know what didn't happen.
You can make a valid argument for Tunsil over Apple
Both would have been excellent, balanced, need/value picks.
Once I checked out Thompson for that combine time, I was happy enough. Our CF does not have to be the fastest S, but cannot possibly be good if a slow turd.
Biggest concern is the scouting report that Apple can be somewhat grabby. If that can be coached out, there is no reason for Apple to not turn into Revis (very similar physically) if he is willing to work that hard.
Given too many holes to fill with a single draft without extra picks, I give a preliminary A.
which was obviously a pretty heralded draft, even if it didn't end up paying the long term dividends many might have thought early on. We picked higher in every round so that was an advantage for '16, I adjusted a couple of the later picks to compare like positions.
Apple > Ross - don't think there's anyone who would deny that in terms of prospect caliber Apple's better Shepard = Smith - this one is splitting hairs, Shepard's seemingly more explosive but their combines were similar Thompson > Alford - Hard to evaluate different positions, but Thompson was definitely less of a reach according to experts Goodson = Deossie - both were regarded as pretty good values and likely special teams contributors yr 1 Adams (6th) > Boss (5th) - Adams was in Mayock & Kiper's top 50, clearly has more ability Perkins (5th) = Bradshaw (7th) - Bradshaw probably had more explosiveness but Perkins has better major conf production
Will this year's class outperform 2007? Who knows, the exciting thing is that it's within the range of possibilities. In fact there's upside in the sense that only 1 of our 2007 picks got a lucrative 2nd contract. Don't think any even made a pro bowl.
I was thinking about the similarities also, and stated on other threads the last 2 months JR needed another '07 draft to keep his job.
On paper, it looks that way. If 1 and 2 are major contributors immediately, and 1 or 2 more can as well around mid season, then its an excellent draft.
For now a B+, could become A+ under the above.
that turned out to be trash too. So spare me the experts opinions, at best they don't know anymore then MiS did.
Almost beat Carolina? No you mean Carolina almost choked as anyone watched that fiasco should remember. The Panthers took their foot off the gas and went into prevent mode. Always remember when they needed to ice the game, they did so without hesitation.
And yes this is a bad, bad team. If Jints central is determined to rely on the combination of John Jerry, Marshall Newhouse and Bobby Hart to protect Eli, I fear for his health this year.
You must be a blast at parties. Seriously been posting here for a while and I don't think you made one non-negative (forget positive) post since you've been here. The team isn't winning a Super Bowl but your general negativity and hyperbole is ridiculous.
I think BigBlueCane is extremely smart and football knowledgeable..In the 15+ years I've been here, I can't recall one positive post other than possibly during our playoff runs(I don't recall, but assume he did)..Unless a player is from UM, I honestly can't recall even ONE positive post..That's a remarkable record. Guiness-Worthy..It's kind of awesome in a way..:)
B/c you can't name a draft when the top CB drafted was slated as the #3 CB on a team.
lets ignore, for the moment, that people consistently misuse or misinterpret or obfuscate what number 2 WR or number 3 CB, really mean and use a depth chart reference for an on-field position. Rather, let's ask the question of how many games were lost or negatively impacted by a defensible pass not defended because the cover guy was Wade or Holsey. I'd spend a high draft pick to win games. Wouldn't you?
B/c you can't name a draft when the top CB drafted was slated as the #3 CB on a team.
lets ignore, for the moment, that people consistently misuse or misinterpret or obfuscate what number 2 WR or number 3 CB, really mean and use a depth chart reference for an on-field position. Rather, let's ask the question of how many games were lost or negatively impacted by a defensible pass not defended because the cover guy was Wade or Holsey. I'd spend a high draft pick to win games. Wouldn't you?
B/c you can't name a draft when the top CB drafted was slated as the #3 CB on a team.
This is true despite the posters who try to argue against it.
The problem is who do you take at 10 instead? Tunsil? No thanks with his issues. Missed time due to injury and drug risk. Decker? Reach at 10 and significant drop off in talent from top 3. No WR was worth 10 and we got a comparable player at 40. No LB was worth the 10th. No safety was worth 10. No RB was worth 10. No TE was worth 10.
Really Shaq Lawson is the only other player who would've made sense at 10 and he's not perfect either.
not every draft is going to have OBJ, Martin and Donald sitting there available.
And if you go thru so many names that you wouldn't take at #10 then you have to trade down. But out GM doesn't really entertain such a deal at least based on HIS history.
RE: How can anyone have confidence in this draft when
B/c you can't name a draft when the top CB drafted was slated as the #3 CB on a team.
lets ignore, for the moment, that people consistently misuse or misinterpret or obfuscate what number 2 WR or number 3 CB, really mean and use a depth chart reference for an on-field position. Rather, let's ask the question of how many games were lost or negatively impacted by a defensible pass not defended because the cover guy was Wade or Holsey. I'd spend a high draft pick to win games. Wouldn't you?
It's not a question of misuse, misinterpret or obfuscate what a #2 WR or #3 CBs assignment is. With a roster with so many holes you can't definitively say "well, if we had another CB we would have won". What if the Giants had a better RT, would they have controlled the football and not turned the ball over to the defense? What if a safety could help a CB, catch the football? What if a linebacker made a play? Would a better #2 receive have helped? Too many holes to make a claim any one position was the reason.
The poster i responded too claimed the Giants drafted the top CB in the draft. My question is how often has the top CB in a draft been slated as the #3 CB? From what we've read, the kid is very talented yet has a lot to learn. Learning for a rookie is true for all of them yet i don't recall a Joe Haden being slated as a #3 CB. I can't ever recall when a CB was considered the best in a draft class slated to be a #3 b/c had a lot to learn.
I like the kid like many do yet don't believe for a moment this was the player the Giants were anticipating at #10. With teams like Tennessee, Cleveland, Miami, Philly, Chicago, Seattle, etc navigating by trading up or back for players they want i question why the Giants didn't. If Floyd was so important to the Giants was the 4th Round pick really that important? Had news not leaked out would Chicago have moved up?
We can twist it 100 different ways and still conclude the kid is going to be a good player yet I'm not buying he was the main target on the Giants radar nor do i believe the Giants would have won more games last year had this kid been in besides Hosley as we witnessed mistakes/failures across the roster with the game on the line.
B/c you can't name a draft when the top CB drafted was slated as the #3 CB on a team.
Your thinking is extraordinarily antiquated. The 3rd CB is on the field 2/3 of the time and the starting CB is often hurt and is 30. Apple will play plenty his rookie year.
This is comical. If healthy, we can actually put 3 pretty decent
CBs on the field at once. And if someone is not, then we at least are not badly exposed with 2.
But this is being touted as a luxury by some of you on BBI?
Here is my best example as to why that is moronic. Biggest game of the year vs. Washington. DRC gets dinged up and goes out for 1 play. Hosley comes and and Redskins throw a 60 yard bomb against on the very next play.
That is all you need to know...
Trae Waynes last year (not that it's a great comp)
but I'm pretty sure Minny wasn't counting on him beating out Rhodes or Newman. Not trying to flame an argument but I'm sure it has happened before to varying degrees.
B/c you can't name a draft when the top CB drafted was slated as the #3 CB on a team.
lets ignore, for the moment, that people consistently misuse or misinterpret or obfuscate what number 2 WR or number 3 CB, really mean and use a depth chart reference for an on-field position. Rather, let's ask the question of how many games were lost or negatively impacted by a defensible pass not defended because the cover guy was Wade or Holsey. I'd spend a high draft pick to win games. Wouldn't you?
It's not a question of misuse, misinterpret or obfuscate what a #2 WR or #3 CBs assignment is. With a roster with so many holes you can't definitively say "well, if we had another CB we would have won". What if the Giants had a better RT, would they have controlled the football and not turned the ball over to the defense? What if a safety could help a CB, catch the football? What if a linebacker made a play? Would a better #2 receive have helped? Too many holes to make a claim any one position was the reason.
The poster i responded too claimed the Giants drafted the top CB in the draft. My question is how often has the top CB in a draft been slated as the #3 CB? From what we've read, the kid is very talented yet has a lot to learn. Learning for a rookie is true for all of them yet i don't recall a Joe Haden being slated as a #3 CB. I can't ever recall when a CB was considered the best in a draft class slated to be a #3 b/c had a lot to learn.
I like the kid like many do yet don't believe for a moment this was the player the Giants were anticipating at #10. With teams like Tennessee, Cleveland, Miami, Philly, Chicago, Seattle, etc navigating by trading up or back for players they want i question why the Giants didn't. If Floyd was so important to the Giants was the 4th Round pick really that important? Had news not leaked out would Chicago have moved up?
We can twist it 100 different ways and still conclude the kid is going to be a good player yet I'm not buying he was the main target on the Giants radar nor do i believe the Giants would have won more games last year had this kid been in besides Hosley as we witnessed mistakes/failures across the roster with the game on the line.
You do realize the draft is not just about this year, right? Getting hung up on whether or not a guy is a #3 corner is silly. JPP didn't contribute right away. Our DT prospects typically use their rookie seasons as a redshirt season. We're going to have a decision to make on DRC down the road. Not restocking the cupboard and only having Jenkins would leave us completely exposed. My advice is to go get a life and not be so fixated on this.
RE: This is comical. If healthy, we can actually put 3 pretty decent
CBs on the field at once. And if someone is not, then we at least are not badly exposed with 2.
But this is being touted as a luxury by some of you on BBI?
Here is my best example as to why that is moronic. Biggest game of the year vs. Washington. DRC gets dinged up and goes out for 1 play. Hosley comes and and Redskins throw a 60 yard bomb against on the very next play.
That is all you need to know...
Luxury might be reading comprehension as it was stated that without a starting RT and no backup at LT it's a luxury to field a 3rd CB being the roster has two starting CB's while other positions don't even have a starter.
Your Washington example is faulty as you don't consider any other factors besides the CB. What if there was a pass rush or the offense could have held onto the ball longer? Considering the defense set records for incompetence nobody can lay claim a CB was the difference.
In
You do realize the draft is not just about this year, right? Getting hung up on whether or not a guy is a #3 corner is silly. .
Yes, and i did mention this and I'm certain every fan, media outlet were aware and don't need all to get lives b/c the discuss the topic. Those who continue to name call and insult might want to take their own advice.
I'm not the loser going back and forth over something that
doesn't affect me. You're more than welcome to have an opinion on players, but all you have done is bitch about every pick. You come off as a douche who really wants to be known as some sort of well respected arm chair GM, when that's actually the opposite consensus. Newsflash. No one respects your opinion!
RE: I'm not the loser going back and forth over something that
doesn't affect me. You're more than welcome to have an opinion on players, but all you have done is bitch about every pick. You come off as a douche who really wants to be known as some sort of well respected arm chair GM, when that's actually the opposite consensus. Newsflash. No one respects your opinion!
It's a discussion among a few football fans with nut jobs like you chiming in to do nothing but insult. It's your MO and will never change. Keep insulting for all i care as you rarely discuss the topic and just make up shit.
I never bashed all these picks and have supported Reese forever. I just question what happened at #10 which is apparently enough for your type to express your MO of continual insults.
This team has no chance of going into Seattle and winning a playoff game.
Which is what it's going to have to do, to get back the SB.
So what Red Dog said. Poorly constructed Fantasy Football team. That's what this team is.
IMO, the roster is closer to an F than the draft. Of course, the F for the roster is the direct results of past drafts which so many loved.
This front office has an arrogance about them when quotes appear including "we got the best player", "we've heard this before", etc, etc. when year after year many of e picks fail to develop and the win loss record doesn't improve.
All we can do is watch what happens b/c we all know what didn't happen.
Do you think the roster is an F right now? I think the defense has a chance to be above average. The offense has weapons and will produce. What is your point about drafting a corner? You don't want depth there? I don't care how other teams have drafted in the past, but most people believe in taking the best player available in round one. Who would you have taken? I probably would have gambled on Tunsil, but I think Apple will be a good pro. I think this draft was a step in the right direction. We have less projects and more players who are ready to ball.
B/c you can't name a draft when the top CB drafted was slated as the #3 CB on a team.
lets ignore, for the moment, that people consistently misuse or misinterpret or obfuscate what number 2 WR or number 3 CB, really mean and use a depth chart reference for an on-field position. Rather, let's ask the question of how many games were lost or negatively impacted by a defensible pass not defended because the cover guy was Wade or Holsey. I'd spend a high draft pick to win games. Wouldn't you?
It's not a question of misuse, misinterpret or obfuscate what a #2 WR or #3 CBs assignment is. With a roster with so many holes you can't definitively say "well, if we had another CB we would have won". What if the Giants had a better RT, would they have controlled the football and not turned the ball over to the defense? What if a safety could help a CB, catch the football? What if a linebacker made a play? Would a better #2 receive have helped? Too many holes to make a claim any one position was the reason.
The poster i responded too claimed the Giants drafted the top CB in the draft. My question is how often has the top CB in a draft been slated as the #3 CB? From what we've read, the kid is very talented yet has a lot to learn. Learning for a rookie is true for all of them yet i don't recall a Joe Haden being slated as a #3 CB. I can't ever recall when a CB was considered the best in a draft class slated to be a #3 b/c had a lot to learn.
I like the kid like many do yet don't believe for a moment this was the player the Giants were anticipating at #10. With teams like Tennessee, Cleveland, Miami, Philly, Chicago, Seattle, etc navigating by trading up or back for players they want i question why the Giants didn't. If Floyd was so important to the Giants was the 4th Round pick really that important? Had news not leaked out would Chicago have moved up?
We can twist it 100 different ways and still conclude the kid is going to be a good player yet I'm not buying he was the main target on the Giants radar nor do i believe the Giants would have won more games last year had this kid been in besides Hosley as we witnessed mistakes/failures across the roster with the game on the line.
you might be right. Improvement at any one of those things might have won us a game. So, we just improved one. We win.
Do you think the roster is an F right now? I think the defense has a chance to be above average. The offense has weapons and will produce. What is your point about drafting a corner? You don't want depth there? I don't care how other teams have drafted in the past, but most people believe in taking the best player available in round one. Who would you have taken? I probably would have gambled on Tunsil, but I think Apple will be a good pro. I think this draft was a step in the right direction. We have less projects and more players who are ready to ball.
Way too many holes to fix the whole thing but they appear in much better shape than before. They have depth at DB and a nice starting DL. The extra receiver is going to be nice and could be really great if they get anything out of Cruz. The OL, well, they have three starters, two question marks and no depth. Is it a concern? Yeah.
Without repeating everything, quite a few teams navigated through the draft moving up and down. Did the Giants have their hearts set on a CB or did they talk so much the Bears jumped in front of them? I would have liked if the Giants either moved up or back b/c many were stunned by who was picked at #10. Apparently that line of thinking doesn't sit well with the same people who nothing sits well with.
RE: RE: How can anyone have confidence in this draft when
the guys who made the picks have made the picks for the last 5 years and put together a team devoid of talent? Why will this year be any different?
You still hate the Beckham pick?
Im sorry what's there record the last three years?
So you do?
Draft success isn't determined by one player. Once again the draft of 2014 from 3-7 was a bust. Similar to all the others Reese has overseen. Look at the roster.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: How can anyone have confidence in this draft when
Im sorry what's there record the last three years?
So you do?
Draft success isn't determined by one player. Once again the draft of 2014 from 3-7 was a bust. Similar to all the others Reese has overseen. Look at the roster.
Yes, but this specific draft pick you bitched about relentlessly. Just curious if you are still furious that they drafted "another short receiver".
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: How can anyone have confidence in this draft when
Im sorry what's there record the last three years?
So you do?
Draft success isn't determined by one player. Once again the draft of 2014 from 3-7 was a bust. Similar to all the others Reese has overseen. Look at the roster.
Yes, but this specific draft pick you bitched about relentlessly. Just curious if you are still furious that they drafted "another short receiver".
Don't know that I complained relentlessly, and yes I would have preferred a 6"6" RT or preferably a 6'3" WR.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: How can anyone have confidence in this draft when
the guys who made the picks have made the picks for the last 5 years and put together a team devoid of talent? Why will this year be any different?
You still hate the Beckham pick?
Im sorry what's there record the last three years?
So you do?
Draft success isn't determined by one player. Once again the draft of 2014 from 3-7 was a bust. Similar to all the others Reese has overseen. Look at the roster.
Ahh, the old "partial bust" ploy. Haven't seen that one in a while.
How many picks - let's say out of seven - does a team have to hit on to avoid the "partial bust" label? Three? Four? Five? Also, how do you factor in drafting a day one starter from a year two starter? Or a serviceable role-player from a bench-warmer?
I don't like to play amateur scout, but in terms of fit it's really easy to come away happy with what the Giants did here.
Coming away with a CB was a must, and Apple fits the Giants prototype for a first round pick to a tree. Elite measurables, early entry, clean off the field, premium position.
Shepard just looks awesome. Should be an impact player from day 1.
Thompson is a the major pivot point for me. I was pretty stunned the Giants didn't grab a safety in FA, and the "vets" they have there haven't quite inspired. If Thompson can grab hold of that job day one that's a huge boost for the defense.
The last three picks are all solid depth/St guys who could easily slide into starting roles by year two or three.
RE: RE: This is comical. If healthy, we can actually put 3 pretty decent
CBs on the field at once. And if someone is not, then we at least are not badly exposed with 2.
But this is being touted as a luxury by some of you on BBI?
Here is my best example as to why that is moronic. Biggest game of the year vs. Washington. DRC gets dinged up and goes out for 1 play. Hosley comes and and Redskins throw a 60 yard bomb against on the very next play.
That is all you need to know...
Luxury might be reading comprehension as it was stated that without a starting RT and no backup at LT it's a luxury to field a 3rd CB being the roster has two starting CB's while other positions don't even have a starter.
Your Washington example is faulty as you don't consider any other factors besides the CB. What if there was a pass rush or the offense could have held onto the ball longer? Considering the defense set records for incompetence nobody can lay claim a CB was the difference.
We have a starting RT. Backup LT? If we went O-line instead of CB then the argument would just flip. And it would be far worse since the 3rd CB plays about 60-70% snaps but not same for backup LT.
The Washington example is not faulty...it was the first and only play DRC wasnt on the field ajnd we were quickly exposed. You ask, what if the offense could have held the ball longer...it was the last the play of the game so what the hell does that have to do with anything. Don't just argue for argument sake...have a real debate.
the guys who made the picks have made the picks for the last 5 years and put together a team devoid of talent? Why will this year be any different?
You still hate the Beckham pick?
Im sorry what's there record the last three years?
So you do?
Draft success isn't determined by one player. Once again the draft of 2014 from 3-7 was a bust. Similar to all the others Reese has overseen. Look at the roster.
Ahh, the old "partial bust" ploy. Haven't seen that one in a while.
How many picks - let's say out of seven - does a team have to hit on to avoid the "partial bust" label? Three? Four? Five? Also, how do you factor in drafting a day one starter from a year two starter? Or a serviceable role-player from a bench-warmer?
Enlighten us, please.
Think the answer is obvious. What's the record in the last 3 years? How much did they spend in free agency to make up for there poor drafting the last few years? Do they still have huge wholes on this roster?
everyone is pretty pumped up about Goodson. I watched a lot of Clemson games this year and this dude was in on every tackle. He's a gamer, an "eye test" kinda guy. If he can take over MLB by year two that would be fantastic.
I was somewhat unfamiliar with Apple as he wasn't on my radar. Why? Because he was expected to go later in the first round than 10. Also, he was on a loaded Ohio State defense and I keyed in on Bosa and Lee. I figured that because Apple wasn't talked about as a top 10 prospect, I shouldn't really watch him. Therefore, all of my information before he was drafted came from guys talking and tweeting about him.
After reading about him, I feel a lot better than I did on Thursday. Apple has major potential. I had Vernon Hargreaves III as my best player available at #10 (clearly the Giants weren't ok with Myles Jack's knee) and I still think Hargreaves III will be a fantastic CB in the NFL but Reese swung for the fences here and I can't blame him. Apple is a project but with the right coaching, his flaws like being Mr. Grabby can be corrected and he can end up as a high-end starter in this league. He's tall, he's fast, he's only 20 so he's a baby, he's smart and he has the right attitude. We'll see how how he ends up, but the tools are there in abundance.
2) Sterling Shepard - A
Shepard was my third best available player behind A'Shawn Robinson and Michael Thomas. That's why I didn't give this an A+: because I thought Robinson would've been a home run and I had Michael Thomas as the better WR than Shep. Having said that, Shep is one of my favorite players in this draft. He's smart, quick, tough and electric. He has excellent hands. He's a polished route runner. His character is off the charts. The only thing he doesn't have is size, which is why I had Thomas ahead of him, but so what? Jerry Rice wasn't the biggest. DeSean Jackson isn't the biggest. Steve Smith isn't the biggest. This was a fantastic pick and he'll be an amazing Giant on and off the field from day one. Such an easy player to root for.
3) Darian Thompson - B/B+
Thompson was my second best remaining FS behind Justin Simmons, but I thought Simmons was better by a fair margin. I would've liked either Simmons or LeRaven Clark in this slot. I think Clark has the tools to be a starting OT but his technique is fairly messy. Even so, he would've been a nice guy to gamble on.
Anyway, Thompson is a solid FS and I think he's better and more talented than any Safety on the roster not named Landon Collins. Excellent ball skills and size. Very smart and a leader. Deceptive speed. With the right coaching, he can be a productive centerfielder and ballhawk FS in this league.
4) BJ Goodson - B
Can't say much about him because, for the same reason as Apple, I didn't really key in on Goodson. I mean you had Lawson and Dodd on the line and Alexander, Kearse and Greene in the secondary, so I never really focused on Goodson. Only thing I knew about him is what I read from Sy. I'll trust McShay, NFL Network guys and Sy.
But I was absolutely shocked that Andrew Billings, Devontae Booker and Kenneth Dixon were still available. I would've taken one of those guys. Booker and Dixon have three-down ability and in the fourth round.
5) Paul Perkins - B
Only heard of him in passing. If we were going to take a RB at this juncture, Jordan Howard would've been a nice get. But again, I'll trust the guys who know more about this than I do. Many people love Perkins.
6) Jerell Adams - A+
Fantastic value at a position of need. Adams was Mayock's (and my) best player available. Many thought he was destined for Round 2 and AT LATEST, round 3. I have no idea why he slipped but what a fantastic get. A big, fast, strong TE with decent hands, long ams, strong blocking skills and great jumping ability. I think he starts week one.
What I would've done at the time:
1) CB Vernon Hargreaves III of Florida
2) DT A'Shawn Robinson of Alabama
3) OT LeRaven Clark of Texas Tech
4) RB Devontae Booker of Utah
5) TE Jerell Adams of South Carolina
6) WLB Travis Feeney of Washington
I was somewhat unfamiliar with Apple as he wasn't on my radar. Why? Because he was expected to go later in the first round than 10. Also, he was on a loaded Ohio State defense and I keyed in on Bosa and Lee. I figured that because Apple wasn't talked about as a top 10 prospect, I shouldn't really watch him. Therefore, all of my information before he was drafted came from guys talking and tweeting about him.
After reading about him, I feel a lot better than I did on Thursday. Apple has major potential. I had Vernon Hargreaves III as my best player available at #10 (clearly the Giants weren't ok with Myles Jack's knee) and I still think Hargreaves III will be a fantastic CB in the NFL but Reese swung for the fences here and I can't blame him. Apple is a project but with the right coaching, his flaws like being Mr. Grabby can be corrected and he can end up as a high-end starter in this league. He's tall, he's fast, he's only 20 so he's a baby, he's smart and he has the right attitude. We'll see how how he ends up, but the tools are there in abundance.
2) Sterling Shepard - A
Shepard was my third best available player behind A'Shawn Robinson and Michael Thomas. That's why I didn't give this an A+: because I thought Robinson would've been a home run and I had Michael Thomas as the better WR than Shep. Having said that, Shep is one of my favorite players in this draft. He's smart, quick, tough and electric. He has excellent hands. He's a polished route runner. His character is off the charts. The only thing he doesn't have is size, which is why I had Thomas ahead of him, but so what? Jerry Rice wasn't the biggest. DeSean Jackson isn't the biggest. Steve Smith isn't the biggest. This was a fantastic pick and he'll be an amazing Giant on and off the field from day one. Such an easy player to root for.
3) Darian Thompson - B/B+
Thompson was my second best remaining FS behind Justin Simmons, but I thought Simmons was better by a fair margin. I would've liked either Simmons or LeRaven Clark in this slot. I think Clark has the tools to be a starting OT but his technique is fairly messy. Even so, he would've been a nice guy to gamble on.
Anyway, Thompson is a solid FS and I think he's better and more talented than any Safety on the roster not named Landon Collins. Excellent ball skills and size. Very smart and a leader. Deceptive speed. With the right coaching, he can be a productive centerfielder and ballhawk FS in this league.
4) BJ Goodson - B
Can't say much about him because, for the same reason as Apple, I didn't really key in on Goodson. I mean you had Lawson and Dodd on the line and Alexander, Kearse and Greene in the secondary, so I never really focused on Goodson. Only thing I knew about him is what I read from Sy. I'll trust McShay, NFL Network guys and Sy.
But I was absolutely shocked that Andrew Billings, Devontae Booker and Kenneth Dixon were still available. I would've taken one of those guys. Booker and Dixon have three-down ability and in the fourth round.
5) Paul Perkins - B
Only heard of him in passing. If we were going to take a RB at this juncture, Jordan Howard would've been a nice get. But again, I'll trust the guys who know more about this than I do. Many people love Perkins.
6) Jerell Adams - A+
Fantastic value at a position of need. Adams was Mayock's (and my) best player available. Many thought he was destined for Round 2 and AT LATEST, round 3. I have no idea why he slipped but what a fantastic get. A big, fast, strong TE with decent hands, long ams, strong blocking skills and great jumping ability. I think he starts week one.
What I would've done at the time:
1) CB Vernon Hargreaves III of Florida
2) DT A'Shawn Robinson of Alabama
3) OT LeRaven Clark of Texas Tech
4) RB Devontae Booker of Utah
5) TE Jerell Adams of South Carolina
6) WLB Travis Feeney of Washington
I like our draft better than yours above. WR was a SERIOUS need that was filled with a pro ready great route runner. I like Perkins better than Booker as well. Clark is solid but not plug and play IMO so instead of taking a project we get a dynamic playmaking safety.
Your draft is good but ours filled immediate needs minus any projects
I was somewhat unfamiliar with Apple as he wasn't on my radar. Why? Because he was expected to go later in the first round than 10. Also, he was on a loaded Ohio State defense and I keyed in on Bosa and Lee. I figured that because Apple wasn't talked about as a top 10 prospect, I shouldn't really watch him. Therefore, all of my information before he was drafted came from guys talking and tweeting about him.
After reading about him, I feel a lot better than I did on Thursday. Apple has major potential. I had Vernon Hargreaves III as my best player available at #10 (clearly the Giants weren't ok with Myles Jack's knee) and I still think Hargreaves III will be a fantastic CB in the NFL but Reese swung for the fences here and I can't blame him. Apple is a project but with the right coaching, his flaws like being Mr. Grabby can be corrected and he can end up as a high-end starter in this league. He's tall, he's fast, he's only 20 so he's a baby, he's smart and he has the right attitude. We'll see how how he ends up, but the tools are there in abundance.
2) Sterling Shepard - A
Shepard was my third best available player behind A'Shawn Robinson and Michael Thomas. That's why I didn't give this an A+: because I thought Robinson would've been a home run and I had Michael Thomas as the better WR than Shep. Having said that, Shep is one of my favorite players in this draft. He's smart, quick, tough and electric. He has excellent hands. He's a polished route runner. His character is off the charts. The only thing he doesn't have is size, which is why I had Thomas ahead of him, but so what? Jerry Rice wasn't the biggest. DeSean Jackson isn't the biggest. Steve Smith isn't the biggest. This was a fantastic pick and he'll be an amazing Giant on and off the field from day one. Such an easy player to root for.
3) Darian Thompson - B/B+
Thompson was my second best remaining FS behind Justin Simmons, but I thought Simmons was better by a fair margin. I would've liked either Simmons or LeRaven Clark in this slot. I think Clark has the tools to be a starting OT but his technique is fairly messy. Even so, he would've been a nice guy to gamble on.
Anyway, Thompson is a solid FS and I think he's better and more talented than any Safety on the roster not named Landon Collins. Excellent ball skills and size. Very smart and a leader. Deceptive speed. With the right coaching, he can be a productive centerfielder and ballhawk FS in this league.
4) BJ Goodson - B
Can't say much about him because, for the same reason as Apple, I didn't really key in on Goodson. I mean you had Lawson and Dodd on the line and Alexander, Kearse and Greene in the secondary, so I never really focused on Goodson. Only thing I knew about him is what I read from Sy. I'll trust McShay, NFL Network guys and Sy.
But I was absolutely shocked that Andrew Billings, Devontae Booker and Kenneth Dixon were still available. I would've taken one of those guys. Booker and Dixon have three-down ability and in the fourth round.
5) Paul Perkins - B
Only heard of him in passing. If we were going to take a RB at this juncture, Jordan Howard would've been a nice get. But again, I'll trust the guys who know more about this than I do. Many people love Perkins.
6) Jerell Adams - A+
Fantastic value at a position of need. Adams was Mayock's (and my) best player available. Many thought he was destined for Round 2 and AT LATEST, round 3. I have no idea why he slipped but what a fantastic get. A big, fast, strong TE with decent hands, long ams, strong blocking skills and great jumping ability. I think he starts week one.
What I would've done at the time:
1) CB Vernon Hargreaves III of Florida
2) DT A'Shawn Robinson of Alabama
3) OT LeRaven Clark of Texas Tech
4) RB Devontae Booker of Utah
5) TE Jerell Adams of South Carolina
6) WLB Travis Feeney of Washington
I like our draft better than yours above. WR was a SERIOUS need that was filled with a pro ready great route runner. I like Perkins better than Booker as well. Clark is solid but not plug and play IMO so instead of taking a project we get a dynamic playmaking safety.
Your draft is good but ours filled immediate needs minus any projects
I like taking the best player available and apparently so do the Giants, but fair enough. Difference of opinion and value.
I'm excited about the infusion of play makers this team sorely needs with Shepard, Perkins, & Adams on offense and Thompson at FS.
After a pass rusher I felt CB was an important need and getting Apple was a high upside pick. Funny thing is, had Hargreaves been the pick it would have been perceived more positively from fans and "experts" alike, but if the Giants liked Apple better that's good enough for me.
While it would have been nice to add to the lines, there were only six picks to work with and we filled a bunch of needs without taking the big projects this year. Solid work.
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It's not a question of misuse, misinterpret or obfuscate what a #2 WR or #3 CBs assignment is. With a roster with so many holes you can't definitively say "well, if we had another CB we would have won". What if the Giants had a better RT, would they have controlled the football and not turned the ball over to the defense? What if a safety could help a CB, catch the football? What if a linebacker made a play? Would a better #2 receive have helped? Too many holes to make a claim any one position was the reason.
The poster i responded too claimed the Giants drafted the top CB in the draft. My question is how often has the top CB in a draft been slated as the #3 CB? From what we've read, the kid is very talented yet has a lot to learn. Learning for a rookie is true for all of them yet i don't recall a Joe Haden being slated as a #3 CB. I can't ever recall when a CB was considered the best in a draft class slated to be a #3 b/c had a lot to learn.
I like the kid like many do yet don't believe for a moment this was the player the Giants were anticipating at #10. With teams like Tennessee, Cleveland, Miami, Philly, Chicago, Seattle, etc navigating by trading up or back for players they want i question why the Giants didn't. If Floyd was so important to the Giants was the 4th Round pick really that important? Had news not leaked out would Chicago have moved up?
You really have some strange premises.
1.) Apple wasn't drafted to be the #3 CB. He was drafted to be the #1 CB. But he may very well start as the slot CB this year.
2.) Was there a RT at 10 that would replace Newhouse - Yes a kid with severe off the field problems that the team supposed to pick him passed and went to another and the other team (TN) that was known to be moving up to take him also passed. Both teams are known for taking players with off field problems (Balt and TN). If they passed, the Giants were also.
3.) Trade down means having a willing partner with a fair trade. It also means that the guy you want will be available at the point you trade back to. Maybe Apple was the last player graded in that tier - First or Second - and moving back would drop them to the 3rd tier. Reese already said he was the highest rated player without issues on the board.
Point is you get what you get at the position you are at. They cannot prevent teams from moving ahead. Or you can look at it this way - would you rather have Floyd or Conklin and lose the 3rd pick (have to beat what TN gave up) filling one hole or both Apple and Thompson - both needs filling two holes. Two players are better than one, especially when the top ones are equal in their tier rating. There were holes all over. So you fill the holes where you can.
it looked like we made the best of a bizarre hand to play. Tunsil dropped and other than Conklin no real surprises went in the top 10, which meant that the seven non-QBs whom we probably had rated in our top or top two tiers ended up not being available. So it was a choice between Tunsil and that particular baggage on one hand and the next tier on the other. I can't fault them for Tunsil, though I wouldn't have faulted them for pulling the trigger. I don't buy that there was an obvious alternative to pick. If they liked Apple over VHIII I trust them. Apple got a Top 15 grade from the advisory board, there is plenty of chatter he would have gone within the next few picks.
Beyond that they did a good job of getting value at positions of need. OL is an obvious problem, but they still have cap money and there will certainly be some 6/1 cuts. I'd rather get good value than force the picks.
...I'll let Great Blue North and CBS/NFLDraftScout do the value grading for me.
Sel - Player - CBS GBN
010 Apple --- 020 021
040 Shepard - 059 061
071 Thompson 064 133
109 Goodson -115 N/R
149 Perkins -- 097 167
184 Adams ---- 118 117
So, from a strict value standpoint, the Giants would probably get a B- from CBS and a D from Colin and Co. But there's more to a draft class than just picking the highest-ranked propect at the latest possible pick. Overall - as Colin acknowledged on another thread - the Giants seem to have achieved what they set out to do. While they could have excited their fans by nabbing the #1 prospect with the tenth pick, an OT was not the priority (let alone one with as much baggage as Tunsil), and that choice would have left them unable to hit their real targets (CB/WR/ER), two of which they filled with young players who seem to fit their system really well. The edge-rusher thing simply wasn't in the cards: the value just wasn't there, at any of their picks.
...his value assessment might be tempered by the Giants' UDFA haul:
Sel - Player - CBS GBN
N/A Lewis --- 174 134
N/A Okwara - 189 156
N/A Williams 198 132
I was somewhat unfamiliar with Apple as he wasn't on my radar. Why? Because he was expected to go later in the first round than 10. Also, he was on a loaded Ohio State defense and I keyed in on Bosa and Lee. I figured that because Apple wasn't talked about as a top 10 prospect, I shouldn't really watch him. Therefore, all of my information before he was drafted came from guys talking and tweeting about him.
After reading about him, I feel a lot better than I did on Thursday. Apple has major potential. I had Vernon Hargreaves III as my best player available at #10 (clearly the Giants weren't ok with Myles Jack's knee) and I still think Hargreaves III will be a fantastic CB in the NFL but Reese swung for the fences here and I can't blame him. Apple is a project but with the right coaching, his flaws like being Mr. Grabby can be corrected and he can end up as a high-end starter in this league. He's tall, he's fast, he's only 20 so he's a baby, he's smart and he has the right attitude. We'll see how how he ends up, but the tools are there in abundance.
2) Sterling Shepard - A
Shepard was my third best available player behind A'Shawn Robinson and Michael Thomas. That's why I didn't give this an A+: because I thought Robinson would've been a home run and I had Michael Thomas as the better WR than Shep. Having said that, Shep is one of my favorite players in this draft. He's smart, quick, tough and electric. He has excellent hands. He's a polished route runner. His character is off the charts. The only thing he doesn't have is size, which is why I had Thomas ahead of him, but so what? Jerry Rice wasn't the biggest. DeSean Jackson isn't the biggest. Steve Smith isn't the biggest. This was a fantastic pick and he'll be an amazing Giant on and off the field from day one. Such an easy player to root for.
3) Darian Thompson - B/B+
Thompson was my second best remaining FS behind Justin Simmons, but I thought Simmons was better by a fair margin. I would've liked either Simmons or LeRaven Clark in this slot. I think Clark has the tools to be a starting OT but his technique is fairly messy. Even so, he would've been a nice guy to gamble on.
Anyway, Thompson is a solid FS and I think he's better and more talented than any Safety on the roster not named Landon Collins. Excellent ball skills and size. Very smart and a leader. Deceptive speed. With the right coaching, he can be a productive centerfielder and ballhawk FS in this league.
4) BJ Goodson - B
Can't say much about him because, for the same reason as Apple, I didn't really key in on Goodson. I mean you had Lawson and Dodd on the line and Alexander, Kearse and Greene in the secondary, so I never really focused on Goodson. Only thing I knew about him is what I read from Sy. I'll trust McShay, NFL Network guys and Sy.
But I was absolutely shocked that Andrew Billings, Devontae Booker and Kenneth Dixon were still available. I would've taken one of those guys. Booker and Dixon have three-down ability and in the fourth round.
5) Paul Perkins - B
Only heard of him in passing. If we were going to take a RB at this juncture, Jordan Howard would've been a nice get. But again, I'll trust the guys who know more about this than I do. Many people love Perkins.
6) Jerell Adams - A+
Fantastic value at a position of need. Adams was Mayock's (and my) best player available. Many thought he was destined for Round 2 and AT LATEST, round 3. I have no idea why he slipped but what a fantastic get. A big, fast, strong TE with decent hands, long ams, strong blocking skills and great jumping ability. I think he starts week one.
What I would've done at the time:
1) CB Vernon Hargreaves III of Florida
2) DT A'Shawn Robinson of Alabama
3) OT LeRaven Clark of Texas Tech
4) RB Devontae Booker of Utah
5) TE Jerell Adams of South Carolina
6) WLB Travis Feeney of Washington
I like our draft better than yours above. WR was a SERIOUS need that was filled with a pro ready great route runner. I like Perkins better than Booker as well. Clark is solid but not plug and play IMO so instead of taking a project we get a dynamic playmaking safety.
Your draft is good but ours filled immediate needs minus any projects
I like taking the best player available and apparently so do the Giants, but fair enough. Difference of opinion and value.
.
I guess the Colts think Clark is a plug and play, I
mentioned this on the SY's thread this morning.
I would have taken Clark in the 3rd.
Excluding WR, I like his picks better than the Giants picks.
The game is still won in the trenches!
people are clamoring for OL but the Giants only had one offensive weapon on the roster. That needed to change or teams would find a way to make Eli and Odell's lives more difficult.
I think Shepherd and Perkins will both be very good and fixtures for a long time.
I suspect the Giants will regret passing on Hargreaves but Apple will be solid.
Adams talent in the sixth intrigues.
I'm iffy on the two defensive players in the middle of the draft. Would prefer more athleticism but lets see.
Not sure why people act like Goodson is unathletic
He was the strongest LB in the draft and had a top 5 time in the 3 cone. His straight-line speed isn't great, but 4.69 isn't terrible either. For all the slobbering over how athletic Floyd is, his 40 was nine one-hundreths faster than Goodson's.
RE: Not sure why people act like Goodson is unathletic
He was the strongest LB in the draft and had a top 5 time in the 3 cone. His straight-line speed isn't great, but 4.69 isn't terrible either. For all the slobbering over how athletic Floyd is, his 40 was nine one-hundreths faster than Goodson's.
His COD seems lacking from what I've seen. Not very agile.
Right, but in the videos I saw of him actually playing football he didn't look very agile. Hope I'm wrong. Anyway don't want to get hung up on the negative as I like this draft a lot.
A
...but I love this Draft!!!
(We'll just have to fix the right side of the line come 2017... unless we get a serious vet in here that can hold down the right tackle position.)
A+
shocked, absolutely shocked.
A
this draft is an EASY A, especially if you compare to previous years. we took virtually no projects in this draft.
Eli Apple(CB)-Big corner, long arms. good press man corner-DRC replacement in a years time, can play inside as well as outside. TOP rated CB on many boards if you consider ramsey a FS.
Sterling Shepard(WR)-great production in college, can play inside AND outside. only 5'10 but 41" vertical and a large catch radius. no fear works over the middle, tough and the best route runner in the entire draft.
Darian Thompson(FS)-PRODUCTION- 19 INTs in his career, a true centerfielder and a ball hawk. will be a great compliment to Collins who will now play SS which is his natural position.
BJ Goodson(LB)-versatile only 6'0 or so but can play all three LBer positions, will end up being the starting WILL LBer for the Giants come september. 19 tackles in the orange bowl, can play in space, good speed for his weight
Paul Perkins(RB)-good value here, very shifty, tough enough to be a primary back. had the highest elusiveness rating (forced missed tackles+ YAC per attempt) of ANY RB including Zeke elliot
Jerell Adams(TE)-shocked he was here in the 6th great value. a tall guy big hands long arms big catch radius. could be used in the redzone. donnells injury concerns and a young will tye, this guy adds to the depth at TE and could provide a redzone target.
6 picks, no reaches, no projects. we filled needs and got good value while doing so. I am VERY excited about this draft...if the giants figure out a way to give some help to the right side of Oline this team will be pretty complete! I am very excited! We had a GREAT weekend! #giants
All of these guys should see snaps in 2016 with most of them competing for starting positions.
The issue with Coughlin's teams last few years were the lack of development of young players. I hope this draft class can really develop well under McAdoo.
2nd: A+
3rd: B
4th: B-
5th: B
6th: A-
- Mel Kiper
All other rounds great values good players.
The #Giants are done. Jerry Reese has now made 72 picks as GM. NEVER a trade down. 0-for-72. Simply amazing.
Only pick that was ok was Goodson..
2 fav picks: Shepard & Adams
Well done Jerry! Now trade for or go get a RT
All other rounds great values good players.
thompson was at one point the first ranked safety. i dont think overdrafted at all 19 INTs in career is awesome...watch some on him he is all over the field. i think we are going to quickly love this kid
We got some real studs and some who might develop into studs. I like it a lot.
It's my opinion and I'm sticking to it!
It's my opinion and I'm sticking to it!
You're wrong and you will change your mind when you see him in action.
Sy seems to have had a really good track record these past couple drafts, so maybe the fact they drafted a lot of players he had highly rated bodes well for the Giants.
In a draft with Beckham, Richburg, and other contributors like Kennard and Bromley the Giants get a B or B- from nfl.com, sbnation, C+ from Pete Prisco, B from SI, but people are giving this one an A already.
hate to be the cliched one, too meaningless to grade a draft before a down has been played.
very solid draft... Apple and Thompson will end up telling the tale in a few years
too early to grade, but give them a solid B for the work and preparation and down right beating the bushes
cant remember us ever drafting a Boise State player
now find me a RT
I'm not claiming to be an expert. It's just my gut feeling.
It's my opinion and I'm sticking to it!
Who are you again? Unless you're an actual scout, no one cares.
Sy seems to have had a really good track record these past couple drafts, so maybe the fact they drafted a lot of players he had highly rated bodes well for the Giants.
In a draft with Beckham, Richburg, and other contributors like Kennard and Bromley the Giants get a B or B- from nfl.com, sbnation, C+ from Pete Prisco, B from SI, but people are giving this one an A already.
hate to be the cliched one, too meaningless to grade a draft before a down has been played.
Hey, it's just an exercise. A meaningless but fun one, imv
Felt like we let some DT & DE on the Table .
Lord Help that Our O-line stays Healthy .
Lastly did we Draft any Starters ?
I didn't really dislike any of the Picks
The FS in the 3rd needs to be the Goods
Sheppard is the Wildcard Hopefully he wins
the #2 Job and Runs with it .
If Apple doesn't start then this Draft is Less
than B
I imagine after Reese said they were taking Apple that McAdoo slid his head and face into his oversized suit like a turtle.
Agreed
That's like an A+ from anyone else..
:)
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do you think it was a secret that we needed a RT?
Agreed
Reese had it covered
"We like Marshall Newhouse"
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probably got at best a C from BBI, not sure most of us are qualified to grade a draft this fresh.
Sy seems to have had a really good track record these past couple drafts, so maybe the fact they drafted a lot of players he had highly rated bodes well for the Giants.
In a draft with Beckham, Richburg, and other contributors like Kennard and Bromley the Giants get a B or B- from nfl.com, sbnation, C+ from Pete Prisco, B from SI, but people are giving this one an A already.
hate to be the cliched one, too meaningless to grade a draft before a down has been played.
Hey, it's just an exercise. A meaningless but fun one, imv
LOL, I know, I love the approach positionally, the write-ups, etc. I'd give it a B,
If a draft with Odell Beckham and Westom Richburg - to all-pro caliber players gets a B or B- from so-cslled experts then on April 30, I'm not giving this one an A.
2. A + great complimentary player
3. A + smart pick, complimentary
4. C+ benefit of the doubt based on Sy, meh.
5. C+(positional repairs not finished yet, punt returner '+')
6. B+ what do you want here, good pick, move Tye to FB '+'
Those might have been the most talented players they picked.
I couldnt me more proud of the Giants offseason and draft class and the adamancy of this franchise to not accept unfortunate inevitable end to Eli's career without a fight.
Willie impressive..You're usually quite strict with your evaluations
It's my opinion and I'm sticking to it!
He's a 5th round pick. Wouldn't being a JAG make it a good pick?
Love the Sterling Shepard pick.
Many of these players have a chance to make the roster because of the new head coach. Any new head coach is likely to replace the favorites of the previous coach with his own guys.
Whatever is contrary to what anyone thinks of course.
Chicken
I've been a firm believer that the group dynamic that picks the draft (it is NOT only Reese, contrary to the opinion of many) was going through a major shake up for this year. Maybe it's because I want to see it, but it's obvious the approach was different. Much more 'safe' picks and less risky long term projects trying to outsmart other teams who didn't take them. That's ok with me, because safe is how you build a solid team. you need to gamble once in a while, but the write ups certainly sound like we have a good likelihood of several solid/good players. give me that over one star and a bunch of duds any day.
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.
That's like an A+ from anyone else..
:)
Hey, it takes a tough man to make a tender chicken
No projects. A LB and a TE. An atypical Reese draft.
The #Giants are done. Jerry Reese has now made 72 picks as GM. NEVER a trade down. 0-for-72. Simply amazing.
This is a little disturbing. It definitely speaks to our lack of depth. I wouldn't me upset about it happening less often than other teams in general, but never? If he values quality over quantity to that extent, he really needs to deliver on quality. It has improved (maybe) over the past few years, but not so much that it wouldn't be better to have more picks.
Ben McAdoo: "The right side of the offensive line, the story is yet to be written. WEre just starting the 2016 offseason."
You could at least try to improve the level to which you're informed, no?
Hell the Giants after next year will have an insane amount of money invested in those trenches.
Of course let's come back in 4 years to evaluate.
Ben McAdoo: "The right side of the offensive line, the story is yet to be written. WEre just starting the 2016 offseason."
Hm... I hope it means that Hart is battling for a spot on the right side. But it sounds more like something is in the works. Why did those Anthony Davis toxic relationship with the Niners drop in the last two days?
Marc Ross says there were "discussions" regarding OL and DL, but they were never close to near the top of the board on any occasion.
Art Stapleton @art_stapleton 1m1 minute ago
Marc Ross on no OL/DL drafted for #Giants: "We weren't going to force anything. You want big bodies, but you want the right big bodies."
Marc Ross: "We spent a lot in the offseason on the D-line. We have some high draft picks on the O-line." Indicates they've invested plenty.
Only because I feel Apple will not be a big impact guy this year but has a strong future.
Ross says #Giants prioritize positions more when going after UDFAs.
Ross estimates #Giants might sign 12-15 UDFAs. Tonight, they will go after "the guys we really want."
Marc Ross: "We spent a lot in the offseason on the D-line. We have some high draft picks on the O-line." Indicates they've invested plenty.
Same thought. I'm sure Abrams reminding everyone hey you know we got to pay these trench guys and keep enough for that WR deal you know is going right up.
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I think his skillset translates to JAG in the NFL.
It's my opinion and I'm sticking to it!
He's a 5th round pick. Wouldn't being a JAG make it a good pick?
I think if Spags had some input for the Defensive players I could go to a B+.
Ben McAdoo: "The right side of the offensive line, the story is yet to be written. WEre just starting the 2016 offseason."
Better not let John Jerry's #1 fan see this.
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Jordan Raanan @JordanRaanan 51s52 seconds ago
The #Giants are done. Jerry Reese has now made 72 picks as GM. NEVER a trade down. 0-for-72. Simply amazing.
This is a little disturbing. It definitely speaks to our lack of depth. I wouldn't me upset about it happening less often than other teams in general, but never? If he values quality over quantity to that extent, he really needs to deliver on quality. It has improved (maybe) over the past few years, but not so much that it wouldn't be better to have more picks.
We don't do a good job of maximising the overall value of the draft. We're just not flexible. The strength of this draft were in the mid rounds. Other than Apple I think we've actually got good value for the players we picked (and even Apple isn't egregiously poor value; you're only talking 3 or 4 places if anything) but there's a good argument for saying some strategic trade downs would have given us another shot.
We'll see in a few months. Looks like Dave Te and Sy'56 are happy with the picks and that is a very good thing.
Our roster was so depleted, talent-wise, no matter what position was drafted, it would have addressed a need.
I really like what they did with this draft but like many others I was a bit surprised no OT was chosen. I feel the depth at interior OL is decent but that RT slot needs to be upgraded.
For now I would give this draft a generous A- because we really brought in some serious prospect talent in relation to some of our draft prior to 2013.
Looking forward to bringing in the BEST OT's remaining as UDFAs and then let's move on to camp.....
1-Apple- preferred Hargreaves or Treadwell but Apple is still top 15 value. immediately 3rd corner & will play a ton early; DRC's successor
2-Shep- Should already be 2nd best WR on roster (unless Cruz is 90% or better, unlikely). R.Cobb comparisons legit !!
3-D.thompson- Already the best Free Safety on roster, perfect compliment to L.Collins
4-Goodson- As Sy said, Don't see how he won't be starting by mid season
5-Perkins- He's already the best back on the Roster! he almost makes A.Williams useful as a short yardage/power compliment. Paul should start as soon as he has the playbook down!
6-Adams - Yet, another who's already best on the roster at his position. He may need more time to aliment but he's also a better blocker than what they have there.
Add in the free agency haul...A+
Shepard = B+. Would have preferred a receiver to play the outside. Should get lots of touches this year.
Thompson = A. Had him as a 2nd round target on early mocks. Can earn a starting spot in camp.
Goodson = B. Haven't heard anything to dislike this pick. Could be quality depth.
Perkins = B. Head scratcher. Already a loaded backfield. Will have to beat out people to make the team.
Adams = A. I had him as a target in round 5. Will have to win the starting job but will see time as a situation player.
Everyone said Reese needed to hit a home run, and it's possible that he did just that.
PS You can begin grading a draft the moment they hit the practice field. Just like a student. Every quiz, test, essay, take home, lecture whatever. Here it is practices, games and what they do after 17:00. Best of luck to the new Giants.
The Eli Apple pick, left me befuddled and depressed (with Biletnikoff Award winner [20 TDs in '05]), Corey Colman available.
(Maybe the Giants brass view Apple as the "JPP of corners"). I remember watching JPP college highlights, and thinking "why in the world" ?
I was wrong, they were right.(Pure physical ability trumped all).
Here's hoping (with that height and speed) that he can develop into a Richard Sherman type - I just don't see him ever as a Derrell Revis hard-press corner.
Ok Kiper
Apple - #3 DBs
Shepard - #7 WRs
Thompson - #13 DBs
Goodson - #13 LBs
Perkins - #12 RBs
Adams - #3 TEs
Didn't address WR with our 2nd Rd pick?
Who are some of you people?
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Jordan Raanan @JordanRaanan 51s52 seconds ago
The #Giants are done. Jerry Reese has now made 72 picks as GM. NEVER a trade down. 0-for-72. Simply amazing.
This is a little disturbing. It definitely speaks to our lack of depth. I wouldn't me upset about it happening less often than other teams in general, but never? If he values quality over quantity to that extent, he really needs to deliver on quality. It has improved (maybe) over the past few years, but not so much that it wouldn't be better to have more picks.
Im not a JR hater, but that's pathetic.
Where did Apple have a 2nd round grade? Not at NFL.com or CBS/DraftScout.
Maybe at Booger McPhlegm's DraftDoody.com...or TheHuddleReport.
Shepard = B+. Would have preferred a receiver to play the outside. Should get lots of touches this year.
Thompson = A. Had him as a 2nd round target on early mocks. Can earn a starting spot in camp.
Goodson = B. Haven't heard anything to dislike this pick. Could be quality depth.
Perkins = B. Head scratcher. Already a loaded backfield. Will have to beat out people to make the team.
Adams = A. I had him as a target in round 5. Will have to win the starting job but will see time as a situation player.
Loaded backfield? With a bunch of marginal to mediocre backs.
Shepard = B+. Would have preferred a receiver to play the outside. Should get lots of touches this year.
Thompson = A. Had him as a 2nd round target on early mocks. Can earn a starting spot in camp.
Goodson = B. Haven't heard anything to dislike this pick. Could be quality depth.
Perkins = B. Head scratcher. Already a loaded backfield. Will have to beat out people to make the team.
Adams = A. I had him as a target in round 5. Will have to win the starting job but will see time as a situation player.
How do we have a loaded backfield? We have bodies. Not many players.
And April 2016 strikes again!
Quote:
In comment 12937366 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Jordan Raanan @JordanRaanan 51s52 seconds ago
The #Giants are done. Jerry Reese has now made 72 picks as GM. NEVER a trade down. 0-for-72. Simply amazing.
This is a little disturbing. It definitely speaks to our lack of depth. I wouldn't me upset about it happening less often than other teams in general, but never? If he values quality over quantity to that extent, he really needs to deliver on quality. It has improved (maybe) over the past few years, but not so much that it wouldn't be better to have more picks.
Im not a JR hater, but that's pathetic.
It is. Incredible.
But the low grade was based on the Eagles getting the top rated QB, Dallas getting the top rated RB and Washington arguably getting the top rated WR....while we got our 3rd Corner....the other guys improved more then us....not good.
Shepard: Really wanted a tall wideout for our red zone woes (and would even have gone Doctson in Round 1) but if they really like Shepard, OK, I'll watch.
Thompson: This is the one that I can't reconcile because he and Justin Simmons are similar players except that Simmons is demonstrably, and by far, the better athlete. They made a mistake on Landon C last year by ignoring bad combine info and they have doubled down by making Thompson the FS complement.
Goodson: No real problem with it.
Perkins: Like it a lot.
Adams: Fine, need another option than Donnell and Tye is too short for the regular TE role.
I think of all the players that were linked to the Giants at 10, Heargraves was the one I wanted least, because I kept reading that he may not even be the best corner in the draft, or that some guys behind him had higher ceilings. I never looked into Apple though. However, on draftnight reading the writeup from Sy and Dave, and then going back and taking a harder look at Apple:the only difference between Apple and Floyd is that Apples name wasn't getting leaked to the media for weeks on end(or asshats). So, I don't feel like a lack of media leakage should affect the grade or perception of a pick. A few days ago, one of the posters made a comparison chart with grades from NFL.com, from Dave Te and from Sy..with about 20 first rounders on, hand selected players. I modified to carry a composite grade, joining the rankings from all 3 and then sorting it. He left Eli Apple off the list, so I went back and looked up his grade from all 3..and then compared it to the chart. His composite grade placed him #9 overall, ahead of both Conklin and Floyd. That's a high upside pick(just like Floyd would have been), at a premium position and it also fills a need(DRC may be gone next year).
I think the Giants absolutely crushed the rest of the draft, I think I am happier about the mid round picks than I have been in a long time. I think this might be the draft where they get real contributions from guys past the 2nd round.(Even the 3rd round safety, that was Gil Brandt's 52nd ranked player)
I think this was one of the stronger Giants drafts in recent memory, and one that Reese really needed. I think it's an A draft.
If this is sarcasm... you're really bad at it. If this is your real opinion.... then you are a moron.
Best Reese Day 3 in a long time.
But I thought the offense got a stud in Shepard whether Cruz works out or not.
I like Apple and Perkins a lot and truly believe they contribute a lot in 2016 but true value will shine in 2017 when those positions turnover.
And btw - nice job Sy...
Jerrel Adams 6th rd to Giants.
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Should have not reached for Apple in Rd 1. Every mock had Hargreaves in top 10-12. Another young safety in Rd.3? Need a vet there. A 6th RB, seriously? The players chosen were OK but no wow factor for where they were picked. Didn't address 2 of the 3 top needs (LB, WR, OL) with the top picks. These guys may contribute but Reese missed out on a lot of players who would contribute more.
Didn't address WR with our 2nd Rd pick?
Who are some of you people?
Well we know who you are - someone who can't read. I said "Didn't address 2 of top 3..." Obviously the 1 that was addressed was WR.
I love the Shepard pick...I'm ok with Thompson, but would have preferred OL or DL help.
Perkins and Adams are bonuses.
Grade: solid B
So, while I particularly like both Shepard and Goodson, frankly, I'm not excited by the other picks. (Though I know Sy thinks otherwise, so what do I know?) But until proved otherwise I'll give this draft a solid "C." (Which historically, would be an improvement.)
First of all, Apple was not a reach. Mock drafts don't mean squat. And CB was, without question, a pressing need. You need, at minimum, three starting-caliber CBs these days. We had two. Now we have three.
We don't need a veteran safety. We need to stay healthier at the position than we have been for a couple of years and give our young safeties the reps they need.
The RB we just drafted is better than any RB we have on the roster now.
The LB we just drafted is most likely better than any LB we have on the roster now. At the very least, he isn't burdened with an injury history like Kennard and Robinson.
The failure to address the O-Line is more a product of the Tunsil factor and how it affected the few decent OT prospects at the top. Stanley went early and Tennessee had the juice to move up ahead of us and take Conklin. Clearly, the Giants had Apple graded higher than Decker, and as a matter of fact, so did NFL.com.
As for the players Reese missed who would have contributed more, go ahead, name them.
Apple I am sure will be a good player. I just would have preferred Decker of Lawson. But whatever.
liked Shepard, Adams, and Apple.
Didn't like Thompson.
Indifferent, thought we could have done better .. Paul Perkins, Goodson.
I'm rooting for all these guy now, but the take away is .. We need to learn to trade down.
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"A"
shocked, absolutely shocked.
Shocked, absolutely shocked that this is your contribution to the thread. You've become a punchline...
If the two top linebackers in the draft were not injured it would have gone better. This was a draft of need. I laugh when I hear things like "he was at the top of our board" or the story on right tackle is not yet written. Top flight tackles do not grow on trees boys. Always takes a few years to evaluate. Perhaps a trade down might have allowed them to fill more of the holes. Guess the offers were not good enough.
Jerry has bet his future on these picks. He screws it up does he get yet another chance? For his (and the NY Giants) sake I hope he is right. I also hope he finds a tree growing offensive lineman (that can move people) because we missed on our chance. Jerry knows it better than any of us.
Go GIANTS!!
I guess the media knows more than professional scouts
love the players they selected and think the last 2 picks could be some of the best reese has had since 2007 in the later rounds.however i think they needed OT in round 3 or 4 hawkins was there to be had at thier pick and OT was a bigger need than ILB at that pick its hard to be mad at the value they got thou
if you were grading solely on the guys he drafted it would be A+ but the RB doesnt get you what he should if the OL isnt upto scratch the gulf beween the left and right side of the OL is astounding as is the failure to address it,if the pass protection isnt what they need it to be the WR and TE are not as successful as they should be either
they may still be options to either sign a FA or maybe trade a later round pick in next years draft for an OT
if they can manage that its reese's best draft to date
he looks like being the guy they hoped prince would be but wasnt quite.
prince was a good solid player he just never turned into the outright star corner he was billed as being he wanted way too much money,wanted star money for solid starter play and the giants clearly had thier eye on apple to replace him
nobody had OBJ as being the superstar player he has become either if apple has half the effect he had on the giants it could make them far better.
all the so called "experts" had tunsil as first pick overall and jack in the top 5 before the trade ups happened
kiper in particular is awful, touts himself as a draft expert gets way more picks wrong than anybody
On a personal level, I don't much care about floors, ceilings, upside or downside. Round 1 I wanted RT, Conklin or Decker. Get the line fixed. I've wanted Shepherd since late last year. Got him - happy. Wanted Davis from Maryland in the 3rd. Got Thompson - OK. Picks 4-6 seem to be guys that will make the team and contribute in their respective rotations.
Overall, I think Reese did a good, solid job. I give him a B+, because of no linemen.
You may be right in some cases but if the system didn't work, this organization wouldn't have so many Championships.
You assholes giving "D" grades...Sorry that your lives are that pathetic that it blurs what you see.
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Should have not reached for Apple in Rd 1. Every mock had Hargreaves in top 10-12. Another young safety in Rd.3? Need a vet there. A 6th RB, seriously? The players chosen were OK but no wow factor for where they were picked. Didn't address 2 of the 3 top needs (LB, WR, OL) with the top picks. These guys may contribute but Reese missed out on a lot of players who would contribute more.
First of all, Apple was not a reach. Mock drafts don't mean squat. And CB was, without question, a pressing need. You need, at minimum, three starting-caliber CBs these days. We had two. Now we have three.
We don't need a veteran safety. We need to stay healthier at the position than we have been for a couple of years and give our young safeties the reps they need.
The RB we just drafted is better than any RB we have on the roster now.
The LB we just drafted is most likely better than any LB we have on the roster now. At the very least, he isn't burdened with an injury history like Kennard and Robinson.
The failure to address the O-Line is more a product of the Tunsil factor and how it affected the few decent OT prospects at the top. Stanley went early and Tennessee had the juice to move up ahead of us and take Conklin. Clearly, the Giants had Apple graded higher than Decker, and as a matter of fact, so did NFL.com.
As for the players Reese missed who would have contributed more, go ahead, name them.
Great post
Agree Bill... Last year left a bad image in my mind with Chris Mara leaving after day two to watch his horse in the Kentucky derby and the responses to the questions on h leaving were basically we already did our work - and that's horseshit ( no pun intended). You stay in the room and finish the entire draft process if this is your job and you stay focused trying to determine the best pick every round - everyone that's started inside the process from pick 1.
Which is what it's going to have to do, to get back the SB.
So what Red Dog said. Poorly constructed Fantasy Football team. That's what this team is.
10 seems a little high for a CB. That's a technique position which is very difficult to play well as a rook. I think a killer pass rush makes good DBs and not the other way around. I would have liked a sure thing and an immediate impact at 10 but who the heck doesn't want that? I like the book on the WR and I love getting a RB in the draft as opposed to FA.
Which is what it's going to have to do, to get back the SB.
So what Red Dog said. Poorly constructed Fantasy Football team. That's what this team is.
Which is what it's going to have to do, to get back the SB.
So what Red Dog said. Poorly constructed Fantasy Football team. That's what this team is.
Oh brother...
Which is what it's going to have to do, to get back the SB.
So what Red Dog said. Poorly constructed Fantasy Football team. That's what this team is.
What a bunch of crap. The Giants could very well be hosting Seattle this year.
Almost beat Carolina? No you mean Carolina almost choked as anyone watched that fiasco should remember. The Panthers took their foot off the gas and went into prevent mode. Always remember when they needed to ice the game, they did so without hesitation.
And yes this is a bad, bad team. If Jints central is determined to rely on the combination of John Jerry, Marshall Newhouse and Bobby Hart to protect Eli, I fear for his health this year.
That is my reaction today.
In realty though, I don't really judge a draft until a
couple years down the road.
But that's who they relied on last year and his health was just fine. But I do hope you'll keep posting this over and over and over and over because it couldn't say less about the Giants and couldn't say more about you.
Which is what it's going to have to do, to get back the SB.
So what Red Dog said. Poorly constructed Fantasy Football team. That's what this team is.
Would be the all time draft class that would determine our ability to beat Seattle in 2016.
You should do the who the giants picked vs who I would have picked and back up that talk.
You probably hated the Beckham pick
With this draft, we just took 5 players that could start opening day, or at the very least log significant playing time. That's a big fucking difference.
2nd round = Great pick - huge fan. Curious to see if he'll be used in slot, outside, or both, but a perfect guy.
3rd round = Indifferent. The skillset and need was there. Was hoping to capitalize on the strong talent up front though. Little concerned at the speed as well.
4th round = Nice pick and should push Herlizch and Unga off the roster due to ST ability. Nice to get a fundamentally sound player rather than a project at LB.
5th round = Great pick. Happy to have a little bit of diversity skillset wise at RB for the first time in awhile. More pro-ready than some other lower round RB's the past few years.
6th round = Another solid pick. When talking about the blocking problems people forget that TE has been a big part of the issues the past few years. Meyers was terrible in '13 and Donnell hasn't been great the past two years (neither has Tye). A #2 blocking TE was needed and Adams provides that. His skillset offensively should be fine enough to use him in pinches (good seam route runner).
Overall a B+. I'm one of those that wish the 1st and 3rd rounders could have been used to beef up the line but it's okay. I think DL is not as safe as people think despite the FA haul so a bit concerned.
2nd round = Great pick - huge fan. Curious to see if he'll be used in slot, outside, or both, but a perfect guy.
3rd round = Indifferent. The skillset and need was there. Was hoping to capitalize on the strong talent up front though. Little concerned at the speed as well.
4th round = Nice pick and should push Herlizch and Unga off the roster due to ST ability. Nice to get a fundamentally sound player rather than a project at LB.
5th round = Great pick. Happy to have a little bit of diversity skillset wise at RB for the first time in awhile. More pro-ready than some other lower round RB's the past few years.
6th round = Another solid pick. When talking about the blocking problems people forget that TE has been a big part of the issues the past few years. Meyers was terrible in '13 and Donnell hasn't been great the past two years (neither has Tye). A #2 blocking TE was needed and Adams provides that. His skillset offensively should be fine enough to use him in pinches (good seam route runner).
Overall a B+. I'm one of those that wish the 1st and 3rd rounders could have been used to beef up the line but it's okay. I think DL is not as safe as people think despite the FA haul so a bit concerned.
Good post, young man...Whether I agree or not is not relevant, well thought out & written, bravo.
I don't know if the Giants accomplished that. Hopefully this was their last chance at drafting in the top 10 for another 20 years. I hope they didn't blow their opportunity last year and this year.
Here's the greatest string of top 10 picks in Giants history (6 in 7 years) that led to two Super Bowls
1978 10 Gordon King OT
1979 7 Phil Simms QB
1980 8 Mark Haynes DB
1981 2 Lawrence Taylor LB
*1982 18th pick
1983 10 Terry Kinard DB
1984 3 Carl Banks LB
The last time the Giants had back to back top 10 picks:
1996 5 Cedric Jones DE
1997 7 Ike Hilliard WR
Keeping my fingers crossed.
That said I am critical of the fact we didn't get something done on the offensive line.
His other problem, on which most seem to agree, is to learn to keep his hands from grabbing or otherwise contacting the receiver, or in this era he'll be drawing flags all the time.
His "highlight" film on ESPN seemed mostly to be of plays where he got flagged for interference or holding, so maybe he's not as bad as they made him look.
On the OL, the Giants have as starters 2015 pick 9, 2013 pick 19, and 2014 pick 43. I don't think that they need or even should have all top 50 players on the line. They should be able to find one or two good vets like Shaun O'Hara to fit in for a few years and provide veteran experience.
The Cowboys have three round ones on their OL, but they also have 32 year old Doug Free and UFA La'el Collins. Collins it is said would have been first or second round talent but was undrafted because of fear he might be implicated in the shooting death of a former girl friend.
Collins might be a first or second round talent, but he sure isn't being paid as one and he sure is going to want to be paid like one soon.
Dallas may have over-spent on the OL at the expense of a punchless defense. If they still had Demarcus Ware and Kevin Hardy, their defense would be a lot more scary. Sean Lee is a very good player, but I don't think is the game-changer like the other two, and he is having trouble staying on the field.
I think Apple, Shepard, and Perkins could be future all Pro players. I think Apple (slot CB) and Thompson (FS) will be immediate starters. Shepard and Goodson should be heavy contributors as well. I think Perkins will get a little playing time, and Adams will mostly sit this year.
1)Apple A-: damn good CB, but it was a shocker. Probably will be better than Floyd.
2) Shepard A: WR likened to Cruz is a hell of a pick up, although I was hoping we could get Jack if he fell and I would have taken Ragland as he was a 1st round talent and went the very next pick and I miss the days when we were known for our LBs.
3) Thompson B: He's got faults, but he gets turnovers. Would have like to get Billings for value here.
4) Goodson B-: I don't believe he's fast enough and will have to be taken out on 3rd downs. Still would have taken Billings here for value or even Perkins. He's a good run stopper, but he's never going to be a pro bowler.
5) Perkins A: Almost as good as Elliott. A Tiki like player was an unexpected haul here.
6) Adams B+: Getting a potential TE starter in the 6th round was about as good as I could imagine. This is the kind of draft pick the Giants haven't been making in the past.
I would say while I like all the picks (Apple has grown on me as a future pick although for this year it's worrying that he's never played the Nickel), but I think we've done a poorish job of maximizing our options is a middle heavy draft.
I think if we had a bit more flexibility given all the horse trading which was going on we could have picked up a couple of extra picks and largely had a similar draft. Reese for better or worse seems to have little inclination for acquiring picks. I'm not saying to go to the extremes of NE but I refuse to believe there were no good value opportunities (although I imagine few teams bother to offer the Giants much given the apparent unwillingness to trade down)
Almost beat Carolina? No you mean Carolina almost choked as anyone watched that fiasco should remember. The Panthers took their foot off the gas and went into prevent mode. Always remember when they needed to ice the game, they did so without hesitation.
And yes this is a bad, bad team. If Jints central is determined to rely on the combination of John Jerry, Marshall Newhouse and Bobby Hart to protect Eli, I fear for his health this year.
You must be a blast at parties. Seriously been posting here for a while and I don't think you made one non-negative (forget positive) post since you've been here. The team isn't winning a Super Bowl but your general negativity and hyperbole is ridiculous.
Eli Apple was a surprise. I wasn't expecting a CB at all, but I like the player. I'm a lifelong Gators fan and Apple was my top CB (Ramsey at Safety). I like him in the NFL much better the VH3. He's got good size & speed. Very fluid hips. Maybe the best hips in the draft. You can't teach that. He's very young with a lot of experience already. If we can coach him well I think he can be a top 5 cover corner in the NFL.
Shepard was my #2 WR behind Doctson. A lot of people are mentioning him as strictly a slot player & I think that is absurd. I don't think he should be played in any single spot. That's what I like about our top 4 WRs. They can play from anywhere. It's going to be almost impossible to match up 1 on 1 with them. He's going to make an impact right away & I would not be surprised to see him have around 800 yards & 6-8 TDs this year.
Darian Thompson was my #4 Safety. I had Ramsey, Joseph & Bell over him. Thompson is a great fit next to Collins. We finally have a playmaking FS who can be that center fielder we've been looking for. Also allows Collins to play closer to the LOS. Between DRC, Janoris & Thompson there should be a lot of INTs this year.
BJ Goodson was probably my least favorite pick of ours. I had him as my #8 LB. He was behind Jack, Floyd, Smith, Lee, Ragland, Brothers, Perry. I still like him a lot. Everytime I watched Shaq/Dodd the guy who stood at was Goodson. It wouldn't shock me if he was one of our starting LBs this year. I'd assume at MIKE, but they could play him over JT Thomas at WILL. Doesn't miss tackles & is just a really stout reliable player. It'll be a lot better seeing him in coverage over Unga/Herzlich.
Paul Perkins is my favorite pick of ours. My #2 RB behind Zeke. Everytime I watched him I thought Tiki Barber. He has great vision & can change directions on a dime. Very good receiver with 80 receptions in college. Sy says in his write up that he's not sure if he is an every down RB. I really think he can be. I think he will be the top guy in 2017. Idk if he will get 20 touched a game, but I could definitely see him getting 12-15.
Jerrell Adams was my #4 TE behind Henry, Vannett & Hooper. Probably would have been #3, but Hooper is more NFL ready. Based on upside I think Adams could be the best TE in the draft. He's 6'5 250 with almost 35 inch arms. That's OT arm length. Good receiving ability who can get in between LBs & Safeties. Should be able to make plays down the seam in the NFL. I believe Reese said he's a better blocker then receiver. I don't see that with him, but I'll take their word for it. He's a more then willing blocker at least. Should be able to turn himself into a good blocker with the right coaching. I've seen people say he has off the field problems, but I couldn't find any arrests/drug problems.
If you get two solid starters, you've had a great draft.
I think Adams has a good chance of taking over at tight end. Kiper had him ranked as the best TE in the draft, eight spots above Hunter Henry.
If OL falls apart this year, reverting to 2013 form, this draft will look a lot worse.
At his very early stage, we obviously can't grade the draft on performance. We have to go on expectations, filled needs value, etc. Calling this draft a failure because of no OL or DL is living in a bubble.
First, unfortunately, there were still big needs elsewhere, which they filled. Second, the only OL they were seriously considering were taken before they selected. After that, I really wouldn't have selected on for the sake of it, especially in the late rounds where they got great value at other positions. Third, they addressed DL in a big way in FA. Fourth, they drafted a RB who very likely is already their best RB, a LB who is one of our top 3, a CB who immediately jumps to the #3 spot (like a starter), and a WR who will either be the #2 or 3 WR.
That's 4 of 6 picks that should have an immediate significant role and impact. The S remains to be seen, but it at least seems we will be willing to cut some dead weight in the secondary. The TE has a nice ceiling and should make the team. Maybe you like an OL there, but please stop acting like an OL in round 5 or 6 would be anything more than a project.
So, you may not think this is an A draft and that is fine. But, right now, it hardly seems as anything remotely close to a C or worse.
Short Term: If he can cover a Jordan Reed in the slot, if he can lock up the 3rd WR, that's a huge win. Giants were getting killed on 3rd down by these guys.
Long Term: DRC's eventual cost effective replacement
2. Sterling Shepard
Short Term: I think of all those critical drive killing 3rd down drops from Parker and Randle. If Shepard can win those, huge win!
Long Terms: Cruz's murky future insurance.
3. Darian Thompson
Short Term: Basically can compete for an immediate need. Would love to see someone emerge.
Long Term: Can he be the FS?
4. BJ Goodson
Short Term: Specials and a great size/speed guy. Was captain, can backup the Mike and learn.
Long Term: Vie for a starting role
5. Paul Perkins
Short Term: Cap Cut for Vereen? Unlikely, but I see him i sub packages.
Long Term: Vereen future replacement
6. Jerell Adams
Short Term: Really just learning. Looks awkward and spindly, does not look as fast as he times. Hit the books and get stronger.
Long Term: Compete with Tye for TE spot.
OT - I 100% believe they have a plan here. They have a ton of money left and vets will be cut. They will not be going with Newhouse.
In comment 12938260 Big Rick in FL said:
Eli Apple was a surprise. I wasn't expecting a CB at all, but I like the player. I'm a lifelong Gators fan and Apple was my top CB (Ramsey at Safety). I like him in the NFL much better the VH3. He's got good size & speed. Very fluid hips. Maybe the best hips in the draft. You can't teach that. He's very young with a lot of experience already. If we can coach him well I think he can be a top 5 cover corner in the NFL.
Shepard was my #2 WR behind Doctson. A lot of people are mentioning him as strictly a slot player & I think that is absurd. I don't think he should be played in any single spot. That's what I like about our top 4 WRs. They can play from anywhere. It's going to be almost impossible to match up 1 on 1 with them. He's going to make an impact right away & I would not be surprised to see him have around 800 yards & 6-8 TDs this year.
Darian Thompson was my #4 Safety. I had Ramsey, Joseph & Bell over him. Thompson is a great fit next to Collins. We finally have a playmaking FS who can be that center fielder we've been looking for. Also allows Collins to play closer to the LOS. Between DRC, Janoris & Thompson there should be a lot of INTs this year.
BJ Goodson was probably my least favorite pick of ours. I had him as my #8 LB. He was behind Jack, Floyd, Smith, Lee, Ragland, Brothers, Perry. I still like him a lot. Everytime I watched Shaq/Dodd the guy who stood at was Goodson. It wouldn't shock me if he was one of our starting LBs this year. I'd assume at MIKE, but they could play him over JT Thomas at WILL. Doesn't miss tackles & is just a really stout reliable player. It'll be a lot better seeing him in coverage over Unga/Herzlich.
Paul Perkins is my favorite pick of ours. My #2 RB behind Zeke. Everytime I watched him I thought Tiki Barber. He has great vision & can change directions on a dime. Very good receiver with 80 receptions in college. Sy says in his write up that he's not sure if he is an every down RB. I really think he can be. I think he will be the top guy in 2017. Idk if he will get 20 touched a game, but I could definitely see him getting 12-15.
Jerrell Adams was my #4 TE behind Henry, Vannett & Hooper. Probably would have been #3, but Hooper is more NFL ready. Based on upside I think Adams could be the best TE in the draft. He's 6'5 250 with almost 35 inch arms. That's OT arm length. Good receiving ability who can get in between LBs & Safeties. Should be able to make plays down the seam in the NFL. I believe Reese said he's a better blocker then receiver. I don't see that with him, but I'll take their word for it. He's a more then willing blocker at least. Should be able to turn himself into a good blocker with the right coaching. I've seen people say he has off the field problems, but I couldn't find any arrests/drug problems.
In regards to Adams off field issues, I searched everywhere and all I can find is, hopefully correctable work ethic knocks in the training room and class room.
The only round I can find is in the 1st with Tunsil. Whose a complete stud, but had a ton of problems in college. Was arrested for domestic assault, Nkemdiche threw him under the bus, the gas mask thing & was suspended 7 games in 2015 for taking benefits. I personally have no problem with any one of those things, but it seems to be problem after problem for him. Not to mention he never played a full season in college football. I would have loved to take the chance, but after us having to deal with Will Hill & the stuff going on with Manziel/Josh Gordon I completely understand why the Giants didn't take the chance.
I'm praying that they have a deal in place for Anthony Davis when he comes back from retirement. I'm not counting on it, but I have hope. I just assume they are working on something to upgrade the RT position. The interest in Okung/Clady/Schwartz shows that the Giants know they need to upgrade the position. We will see!!
Which is what it's going to have to do, to get back the SB.
So what Red Dog said. Poorly constructed Fantasy Football team. That's what this team is.
IMO, the roster is closer to an F than the draft. Of course, the F for the roster is the direct results of past drafts which so many loved.
This front office has an arrogance about them when quotes appear including "we got the best player", "we've heard this before", etc, etc. when year after year many of e picks fail to develop and the win loss record doesn't improve.
All we can do is watch what happens b/c we all know what didn't happen.
Once I checked out Thompson for that combine time, I was happy enough. Our CF does not have to be the fastest S, but cannot possibly be good if a slow turd.
Biggest concern is the scouting report that Apple can be somewhat grabby. If that can be coached out, there is no reason for Apple to not turn into Revis (very similar physically) if he is willing to work that hard.
Given too many holes to fill with a single draft without extra picks, I give a preliminary A.
Disappointed Reese couldn't get a RT, but I like every player the Giants selected. Hopefully a veteran upgrade at RT becomes available.
How often does the top cornerback in the draft come in as the third CB on a team which set records for incompetence a year earlier?
When?
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In comment 12937410 jeff57 said:
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.
That's like an A+ from anyone else..
:)
Hey, it takes a tough man to make a tender chicken
No projects. A LB and a TE. An atypical Reese draft.
Guess that means Eli Jr. isn't a tough guy.
Apple > Ross - don't think there's anyone who would deny that in terms of prospect caliber Apple's better
Shepard = Smith - this one is splitting hairs, Shepard's seemingly more explosive but their combines were similar
Thompson > Alford - Hard to evaluate different positions, but Thompson was definitely less of a reach according to experts
Goodson = Deossie - both were regarded as pretty good values and likely special teams contributors yr 1
Adams (6th) > Boss (5th) - Adams was in Mayock & Kiper's top 50, clearly has more ability
Perkins (5th) = Bradshaw (7th) - Bradshaw probably had more explosiveness but Perkins has better major conf production
Will this year's class outperform 2007? Who knows, the exciting thing is that it's within the range of possibilities. In fact there's upside in the sense that only 1 of our 2007 picks got a lucrative 2nd contract. Don't think any even made a pro bowl.
Lol, good 1.
On paper, it looks that way. If 1 and 2 are major contributors immediately, and 1 or 2 more can as well around mid season, then its an excellent draft.
For now a B+, could become A+ under the above.
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that turned out to be trash too. So spare me the experts opinions, at best they don't know anymore then MiS did.
Almost beat Carolina? No you mean Carolina almost choked as anyone watched that fiasco should remember. The Panthers took their foot off the gas and went into prevent mode. Always remember when they needed to ice the game, they did so without hesitation.
And yes this is a bad, bad team. If Jints central is determined to rely on the combination of John Jerry, Marshall Newhouse and Bobby Hart to protect Eli, I fear for his health this year.
You must be a blast at parties. Seriously been posting here for a while and I don't think you made one non-negative (forget positive) post since you've been here. The team isn't winning a Super Bowl but your general negativity and hyperbole is ridiculous.
I think BigBlueCane is extremely smart and football knowledgeable..In the 15+ years I've been here, I can't recall one positive post other than possibly during our playoff runs(I don't recall, but assume he did)..Unless a player is from UM, I honestly can't recall even ONE positive post..That's a remarkable record. Guiness-Worthy..It's kind of awesome in a way..:)
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B/c you can't name a draft when the top CB drafted was slated as the #3 CB on a team.
lets ignore, for the moment, that people consistently misuse or misinterpret or obfuscate what number 2 WR or number 3 CB, really mean and use a depth chart reference for an on-field position. Rather, let's ask the question of how many games were lost or negatively impacted by a defensible pass not defended because the cover guy was Wade or Holsey. I'd spend a high draft pick to win games. Wouldn't you?
Well said.
This is true despite the posters who try to argue against it.
The problem is who do you take at 10 instead? Tunsil? No thanks with his issues. Missed time due to injury and drug risk. Decker? Reach at 10 and significant drop off in talent from top 3. No WR was worth 10 and we got a comparable player at 40. No LB was worth the 10th. No safety was worth 10. No RB was worth 10. No TE was worth 10.
Really Shaq Lawson is the only other player who would've made sense at 10 and he's not perfect either.
And if you go thru so many names that you wouldn't take at #10 then you have to trade down. But out GM doesn't really entertain such a deal at least based on HIS history.
You still hate the Beckham pick?
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B/c you can't name a draft when the top CB drafted was slated as the #3 CB on a team.
lets ignore, for the moment, that people consistently misuse or misinterpret or obfuscate what number 2 WR or number 3 CB, really mean and use a depth chart reference for an on-field position. Rather, let's ask the question of how many games were lost or negatively impacted by a defensible pass not defended because the cover guy was Wade or Holsey. I'd spend a high draft pick to win games. Wouldn't you?
It's not a question of misuse, misinterpret or obfuscate what a #2 WR or #3 CBs assignment is. With a roster with so many holes you can't definitively say "well, if we had another CB we would have won". What if the Giants had a better RT, would they have controlled the football and not turned the ball over to the defense? What if a safety could help a CB, catch the football? What if a linebacker made a play? Would a better #2 receive have helped? Too many holes to make a claim any one position was the reason.
The poster i responded too claimed the Giants drafted the top CB in the draft. My question is how often has the top CB in a draft been slated as the #3 CB? From what we've read, the kid is very talented yet has a lot to learn. Learning for a rookie is true for all of them yet i don't recall a Joe Haden being slated as a #3 CB. I can't ever recall when a CB was considered the best in a draft class slated to be a #3 b/c had a lot to learn.
I like the kid like many do yet don't believe for a moment this was the player the Giants were anticipating at #10. With teams like Tennessee, Cleveland, Miami, Philly, Chicago, Seattle, etc navigating by trading up or back for players they want i question why the Giants didn't. If Floyd was so important to the Giants was the 4th Round pick really that important? Had news not leaked out would Chicago have moved up?
We can twist it 100 different ways and still conclude the kid is going to be a good player yet I'm not buying he was the main target on the Giants radar nor do i believe the Giants would have won more games last year had this kid been in besides Hosley as we witnessed mistakes/failures across the roster with the game on the line.
Your thinking is extraordinarily antiquated. The 3rd CB is on the field 2/3 of the time and the starting CB is often hurt and is 30. Apple will play plenty his rookie year.
But this is being touted as a luxury by some of you on BBI?
Here is my best example as to why that is moronic. Biggest game of the year vs. Washington. DRC gets dinged up and goes out for 1 play. Hosley comes and and Redskins throw a 60 yard bomb against on the very next play.
That is all you need to know...
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In comment 12938632 Giants2012 said:
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B/c you can't name a draft when the top CB drafted was slated as the #3 CB on a team.
lets ignore, for the moment, that people consistently misuse or misinterpret or obfuscate what number 2 WR or number 3 CB, really mean and use a depth chart reference for an on-field position. Rather, let's ask the question of how many games were lost or negatively impacted by a defensible pass not defended because the cover guy was Wade or Holsey. I'd spend a high draft pick to win games. Wouldn't you?
It's not a question of misuse, misinterpret or obfuscate what a #2 WR or #3 CBs assignment is. With a roster with so many holes you can't definitively say "well, if we had another CB we would have won". What if the Giants had a better RT, would they have controlled the football and not turned the ball over to the defense? What if a safety could help a CB, catch the football? What if a linebacker made a play? Would a better #2 receive have helped? Too many holes to make a claim any one position was the reason.
The poster i responded too claimed the Giants drafted the top CB in the draft. My question is how often has the top CB in a draft been slated as the #3 CB? From what we've read, the kid is very talented yet has a lot to learn. Learning for a rookie is true for all of them yet i don't recall a Joe Haden being slated as a #3 CB. I can't ever recall when a CB was considered the best in a draft class slated to be a #3 b/c had a lot to learn.
I like the kid like many do yet don't believe for a moment this was the player the Giants were anticipating at #10. With teams like Tennessee, Cleveland, Miami, Philly, Chicago, Seattle, etc navigating by trading up or back for players they want i question why the Giants didn't. If Floyd was so important to the Giants was the 4th Round pick really that important? Had news not leaked out would Chicago have moved up?
We can twist it 100 different ways and still conclude the kid is going to be a good player yet I'm not buying he was the main target on the Giants radar nor do i believe the Giants would have won more games last year had this kid been in besides Hosley as we witnessed mistakes/failures across the roster with the game on the line.
You do realize the draft is not just about this year, right? Getting hung up on whether or not a guy is a #3 corner is silly. JPP didn't contribute right away. Our DT prospects typically use their rookie seasons as a redshirt season. We're going to have a decision to make on DRC down the road. Not restocking the cupboard and only having Jenkins would leave us completely exposed. My advice is to go get a life and not be so fixated on this.
But this is being touted as a luxury by some of you on BBI?
Here is my best example as to why that is moronic. Biggest game of the year vs. Washington. DRC gets dinged up and goes out for 1 play. Hosley comes and and Redskins throw a 60 yard bomb against on the very next play.
That is all you need to know...
Luxury might be reading comprehension as it was stated that without a starting RT and no backup at LT it's a luxury to field a 3rd CB being the roster has two starting CB's while other positions don't even have a starter.
Your Washington example is faulty as you don't consider any other factors besides the CB. What if there was a pass rush or the offense could have held onto the ball longer? Considering the defense set records for incompetence nobody can lay claim a CB was the difference.
You do realize the draft is not just about this year, right? Getting hung up on whether or not a guy is a #3 corner is silly. .
Yes, and i did mention this and I'm certain every fan, media outlet were aware and don't need all to get lives b/c the discuss the topic. Those who continue to name call and insult might want to take their own advice.
It's a discussion among a few football fans with nut jobs like you chiming in to do nothing but insult. It's your MO and will never change. Keep insulting for all i care as you rarely discuss the topic and just make up shit.
I never bashed all these picks and have supported Reese forever. I just question what happened at #10 which is apparently enough for your type to express your MO of continual insults.
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This team has no chance of going into Seattle and winning a playoff game.
Which is what it's going to have to do, to get back the SB.
So what Red Dog said. Poorly constructed Fantasy Football team. That's what this team is.
IMO, the roster is closer to an F than the draft. Of course, the F for the roster is the direct results of past drafts which so many loved.
This front office has an arrogance about them when quotes appear including "we got the best player", "we've heard this before", etc, etc. when year after year many of e picks fail to develop and the win loss record doesn't improve.
All we can do is watch what happens b/c we all know what didn't happen.
Do you think the roster is an F right now? I think the defense has a chance to be above average. The offense has weapons and will produce. What is your point about drafting a corner? You don't want depth there? I don't care how other teams have drafted in the past, but most people believe in taking the best player available in round one. Who would you have taken? I probably would have gambled on Tunsil, but I think Apple will be a good pro. I think this draft was a step in the right direction. We have less projects and more players who are ready to ball.
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In comment 12938632 Giants2012 said:
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B/c you can't name a draft when the top CB drafted was slated as the #3 CB on a team.
lets ignore, for the moment, that people consistently misuse or misinterpret or obfuscate what number 2 WR or number 3 CB, really mean and use a depth chart reference for an on-field position. Rather, let's ask the question of how many games were lost or negatively impacted by a defensible pass not defended because the cover guy was Wade or Holsey. I'd spend a high draft pick to win games. Wouldn't you?
It's not a question of misuse, misinterpret or obfuscate what a #2 WR or #3 CBs assignment is. With a roster with so many holes you can't definitively say "well, if we had another CB we would have won". What if the Giants had a better RT, would they have controlled the football and not turned the ball over to the defense? What if a safety could help a CB, catch the football? What if a linebacker made a play? Would a better #2 receive have helped? Too many holes to make a claim any one position was the reason.
The poster i responded too claimed the Giants drafted the top CB in the draft. My question is how often has the top CB in a draft been slated as the #3 CB? From what we've read, the kid is very talented yet has a lot to learn. Learning for a rookie is true for all of them yet i don't recall a Joe Haden being slated as a #3 CB. I can't ever recall when a CB was considered the best in a draft class slated to be a #3 b/c had a lot to learn.
I like the kid like many do yet don't believe for a moment this was the player the Giants were anticipating at #10. With teams like Tennessee, Cleveland, Miami, Philly, Chicago, Seattle, etc navigating by trading up or back for players they want i question why the Giants didn't. If Floyd was so important to the Giants was the 4th Round pick really that important? Had news not leaked out would Chicago have moved up?
We can twist it 100 different ways and still conclude the kid is going to be a good player yet I'm not buying he was the main target on the Giants radar nor do i believe the Giants would have won more games last year had this kid been in besides Hosley as we witnessed mistakes/failures across the roster with the game on the line.
Do you think the roster is an F right now? I think the defense has a chance to be above average. The offense has weapons and will produce. What is your point about drafting a corner? You don't want depth there? I don't care how other teams have drafted in the past, but most people believe in taking the best player available in round one. Who would you have taken? I probably would have gambled on Tunsil, but I think Apple will be a good pro. I think this draft was a step in the right direction. We have less projects and more players who are ready to ball.
Way too many holes to fix the whole thing but they appear in much better shape than before. They have depth at DB and a nice starting DL. The extra receiver is going to be nice and could be really great if they get anything out of Cruz. The OL, well, they have three starters, two question marks and no depth. Is it a concern? Yeah.
Without repeating everything, quite a few teams navigated through the draft moving up and down. Did the Giants have their hearts set on a CB or did they talk so much the Bears jumped in front of them? I would have liked if the Giants either moved up or back b/c many were stunned by who was picked at #10. Apparently that line of thinking doesn't sit well with the same people who nothing sits well with.
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the guys who made the picks have made the picks for the last 5 years and put together a team devoid of talent? Why will this year be any different?
You still hate the Beckham pick?
Im sorry what's there record the last three years?
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In comment 12939102 Mendenhall said:
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the guys who made the picks have made the picks for the last 5 years and put together a team devoid of talent? Why will this year be any different?
You still hate the Beckham pick?
Im sorry what's there record the last three years?
So you do?
Quote: [blah, blah -- see his post, which for brevity's sake, I do not repeat.]
Great post
Could not agree more -- and join in your praise.
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In comment 12939130 Chris in Philly said:
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In comment 12939102 Mendenhall said:
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the guys who made the picks have made the picks for the last 5 years and put together a team devoid of talent? Why will this year be any different?
You still hate the Beckham pick?
Im sorry what's there record the last three years?
So you do?
Draft success isn't determined by one player. Once again the draft of 2014 from 3-7 was a bust. Similar to all the others Reese has overseen. Look at the roster.
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Im sorry what's there record the last three years?
So you do?
Draft success isn't determined by one player. Once again the draft of 2014 from 3-7 was a bust. Similar to all the others Reese has overseen. Look at the roster.
Yes, but this specific draft pick you bitched about relentlessly. Just curious if you are still furious that they drafted "another short receiver".
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In comment 12939394 Chris in Philly said:
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Im sorry what's there record the last three years?
So you do?
Draft success isn't determined by one player. Once again the draft of 2014 from 3-7 was a bust. Similar to all the others Reese has overseen. Look at the roster.
Yes, but this specific draft pick you bitched about relentlessly. Just curious if you are still furious that they drafted "another short receiver".
Don't know that I complained relentlessly, and yes I would have preferred a 6"6" RT or preferably a 6'3" WR.
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In comment 12939392 Mendenhall said:
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In comment 12939130 Chris in Philly said:
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In comment 12939102 Mendenhall said:
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the guys who made the picks have made the picks for the last 5 years and put together a team devoid of talent? Why will this year be any different?
You still hate the Beckham pick?
Im sorry what's there record the last three years?
So you do?
Draft success isn't determined by one player. Once again the draft of 2014 from 3-7 was a bust. Similar to all the others Reese has overseen. Look at the roster.
Ahh, the old "partial bust" ploy. Haven't seen that one in a while.
How many picks - let's say out of seven - does a team have to hit on to avoid the "partial bust" label? Three? Four? Five? Also, how do you factor in drafting a day one starter from a year two starter? Or a serviceable role-player from a bench-warmer?
Enlighten us, please.
Coming away with a CB was a must, and Apple fits the Giants prototype for a first round pick to a tree. Elite measurables, early entry, clean off the field, premium position.
Shepard just looks awesome. Should be an impact player from day 1.
Thompson is a the major pivot point for me. I was pretty stunned the Giants didn't grab a safety in FA, and the "vets" they have there haven't quite inspired. If Thompson can grab hold of that job day one that's a huge boost for the defense.
The last three picks are all solid depth/St guys who could easily slide into starting roles by year two or three.
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CBs on the field at once. And if someone is not, then we at least are not badly exposed with 2.
But this is being touted as a luxury by some of you on BBI?
Here is my best example as to why that is moronic. Biggest game of the year vs. Washington. DRC gets dinged up and goes out for 1 play. Hosley comes and and Redskins throw a 60 yard bomb against on the very next play.
That is all you need to know...
Luxury might be reading comprehension as it was stated that without a starting RT and no backup at LT it's a luxury to field a 3rd CB being the roster has two starting CB's while other positions don't even have a starter.
Your Washington example is faulty as you don't consider any other factors besides the CB. What if there was a pass rush or the offense could have held onto the ball longer? Considering the defense set records for incompetence nobody can lay claim a CB was the difference.
We have a starting RT. Backup LT? If we went O-line instead of CB then the argument would just flip. And it would be far worse since the 3rd CB plays about 60-70% snaps but not same for backup LT.
The Washington example is not faulty...it was the first and only play DRC wasnt on the field ajnd we were quickly exposed. You ask, what if the offense could have held the ball longer...it was the last the play of the game so what the hell does that have to do with anything. Don't just argue for argument sake...have a real debate.
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In comment 12939394 Chris in Philly said:
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In comment 12939392 Mendenhall said:
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In comment 12939130 Chris in Philly said:
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In comment 12939102 Mendenhall said:
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the guys who made the picks have made the picks for the last 5 years and put together a team devoid of talent? Why will this year be any different?
You still hate the Beckham pick?
Im sorry what's there record the last three years?
So you do?
Draft success isn't determined by one player. Once again the draft of 2014 from 3-7 was a bust. Similar to all the others Reese has overseen. Look at the roster.
Ahh, the old "partial bust" ploy. Haven't seen that one in a while.
How many picks - let's say out of seven - does a team have to hit on to avoid the "partial bust" label? Three? Four? Five? Also, how do you factor in drafting a day one starter from a year two starter? Or a serviceable role-player from a bench-warmer?
Enlighten us, please.
Think the answer is obvious. What's the record in the last 3 years? How much did they spend in free agency to make up for there poor drafting the last few years? Do they still have huge wholes on this roster?
It's a 60 min game pal. The team lost b/c of overall talent, not b/c one CB was out a play.
Point made. Let's hope this class isn't like the classes of 2012-2014.
I was somewhat unfamiliar with Apple as he wasn't on my radar. Why? Because he was expected to go later in the first round than 10. Also, he was on a loaded Ohio State defense and I keyed in on Bosa and Lee. I figured that because Apple wasn't talked about as a top 10 prospect, I shouldn't really watch him. Therefore, all of my information before he was drafted came from guys talking and tweeting about him.
After reading about him, I feel a lot better than I did on Thursday. Apple has major potential. I had Vernon Hargreaves III as my best player available at #10 (clearly the Giants weren't ok with Myles Jack's knee) and I still think Hargreaves III will be a fantastic CB in the NFL but Reese swung for the fences here and I can't blame him. Apple is a project but with the right coaching, his flaws like being Mr. Grabby can be corrected and he can end up as a high-end starter in this league. He's tall, he's fast, he's only 20 so he's a baby, he's smart and he has the right attitude. We'll see how how he ends up, but the tools are there in abundance.
2) Sterling Shepard - A
Shepard was my third best available player behind A'Shawn Robinson and Michael Thomas. That's why I didn't give this an A+: because I thought Robinson would've been a home run and I had Michael Thomas as the better WR than Shep. Having said that, Shep is one of my favorite players in this draft. He's smart, quick, tough and electric. He has excellent hands. He's a polished route runner. His character is off the charts. The only thing he doesn't have is size, which is why I had Thomas ahead of him, but so what? Jerry Rice wasn't the biggest. DeSean Jackson isn't the biggest. Steve Smith isn't the biggest. This was a fantastic pick and he'll be an amazing Giant on and off the field from day one. Such an easy player to root for.
3) Darian Thompson - B/B+
Thompson was my second best remaining FS behind Justin Simmons, but I thought Simmons was better by a fair margin. I would've liked either Simmons or LeRaven Clark in this slot. I think Clark has the tools to be a starting OT but his technique is fairly messy. Even so, he would've been a nice guy to gamble on.
Anyway, Thompson is a solid FS and I think he's better and more talented than any Safety on the roster not named Landon Collins. Excellent ball skills and size. Very smart and a leader. Deceptive speed. With the right coaching, he can be a productive centerfielder and ballhawk FS in this league.
4) BJ Goodson - B
Can't say much about him because, for the same reason as Apple, I didn't really key in on Goodson. I mean you had Lawson and Dodd on the line and Alexander, Kearse and Greene in the secondary, so I never really focused on Goodson. Only thing I knew about him is what I read from Sy. I'll trust McShay, NFL Network guys and Sy.
But I was absolutely shocked that Andrew Billings, Devontae Booker and Kenneth Dixon were still available. I would've taken one of those guys. Booker and Dixon have three-down ability and in the fourth round.
5) Paul Perkins - B
Only heard of him in passing. If we were going to take a RB at this juncture, Jordan Howard would've been a nice get. But again, I'll trust the guys who know more about this than I do. Many people love Perkins.
6) Jerell Adams - A+
Fantastic value at a position of need. Adams was Mayock's (and my) best player available. Many thought he was destined for Round 2 and AT LATEST, round 3. I have no idea why he slipped but what a fantastic get. A big, fast, strong TE with decent hands, long ams, strong blocking skills and great jumping ability. I think he starts week one.
What I would've done at the time:
1) CB Vernon Hargreaves III of Florida
2) DT A'Shawn Robinson of Alabama
3) OT LeRaven Clark of Texas Tech
4) RB Devontae Booker of Utah
5) TE Jerell Adams of South Carolina
6) WLB Travis Feeney of Washington
I was somewhat unfamiliar with Apple as he wasn't on my radar. Why? Because he was expected to go later in the first round than 10. Also, he was on a loaded Ohio State defense and I keyed in on Bosa and Lee. I figured that because Apple wasn't talked about as a top 10 prospect, I shouldn't really watch him. Therefore, all of my information before he was drafted came from guys talking and tweeting about him.
After reading about him, I feel a lot better than I did on Thursday. Apple has major potential. I had Vernon Hargreaves III as my best player available at #10 (clearly the Giants weren't ok with Myles Jack's knee) and I still think Hargreaves III will be a fantastic CB in the NFL but Reese swung for the fences here and I can't blame him. Apple is a project but with the right coaching, his flaws like being Mr. Grabby can be corrected and he can end up as a high-end starter in this league. He's tall, he's fast, he's only 20 so he's a baby, he's smart and he has the right attitude. We'll see how how he ends up, but the tools are there in abundance.
2) Sterling Shepard - A
Shepard was my third best available player behind A'Shawn Robinson and Michael Thomas. That's why I didn't give this an A+: because I thought Robinson would've been a home run and I had Michael Thomas as the better WR than Shep. Having said that, Shep is one of my favorite players in this draft. He's smart, quick, tough and electric. He has excellent hands. He's a polished route runner. His character is off the charts. The only thing he doesn't have is size, which is why I had Thomas ahead of him, but so what? Jerry Rice wasn't the biggest. DeSean Jackson isn't the biggest. Steve Smith isn't the biggest. This was a fantastic pick and he'll be an amazing Giant on and off the field from day one. Such an easy player to root for.
3) Darian Thompson - B/B+
Thompson was my second best remaining FS behind Justin Simmons, but I thought Simmons was better by a fair margin. I would've liked either Simmons or LeRaven Clark in this slot. I think Clark has the tools to be a starting OT but his technique is fairly messy. Even so, he would've been a nice guy to gamble on.
Anyway, Thompson is a solid FS and I think he's better and more talented than any Safety on the roster not named Landon Collins. Excellent ball skills and size. Very smart and a leader. Deceptive speed. With the right coaching, he can be a productive centerfielder and ballhawk FS in this league.
4) BJ Goodson - B
Can't say much about him because, for the same reason as Apple, I didn't really key in on Goodson. I mean you had Lawson and Dodd on the line and Alexander, Kearse and Greene in the secondary, so I never really focused on Goodson. Only thing I knew about him is what I read from Sy. I'll trust McShay, NFL Network guys and Sy.
But I was absolutely shocked that Andrew Billings, Devontae Booker and Kenneth Dixon were still available. I would've taken one of those guys. Booker and Dixon have three-down ability and in the fourth round.
5) Paul Perkins - B
Only heard of him in passing. If we were going to take a RB at this juncture, Jordan Howard would've been a nice get. But again, I'll trust the guys who know more about this than I do. Many people love Perkins.
6) Jerell Adams - A+
Fantastic value at a position of need. Adams was Mayock's (and my) best player available. Many thought he was destined for Round 2 and AT LATEST, round 3. I have no idea why he slipped but what a fantastic get. A big, fast, strong TE with decent hands, long ams, strong blocking skills and great jumping ability. I think he starts week one.
What I would've done at the time:
1) CB Vernon Hargreaves III of Florida
2) DT A'Shawn Robinson of Alabama
3) OT LeRaven Clark of Texas Tech
4) RB Devontae Booker of Utah
5) TE Jerell Adams of South Carolina
6) WLB Travis Feeney of Washington
I like our draft better than yours above. WR was a SERIOUS need that was filled with a pro ready great route runner. I like Perkins better than Booker as well. Clark is solid but not plug and play IMO so instead of taking a project we get a dynamic playmaking safety.
Your draft is good but ours filled immediate needs minus any projects
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1 - Eli Apple - C+ with the potential to be an A
I was somewhat unfamiliar with Apple as he wasn't on my radar. Why? Because he was expected to go later in the first round than 10. Also, he was on a loaded Ohio State defense and I keyed in on Bosa and Lee. I figured that because Apple wasn't talked about as a top 10 prospect, I shouldn't really watch him. Therefore, all of my information before he was drafted came from guys talking and tweeting about him.
After reading about him, I feel a lot better than I did on Thursday. Apple has major potential. I had Vernon Hargreaves III as my best player available at #10 (clearly the Giants weren't ok with Myles Jack's knee) and I still think Hargreaves III will be a fantastic CB in the NFL but Reese swung for the fences here and I can't blame him. Apple is a project but with the right coaching, his flaws like being Mr. Grabby can be corrected and he can end up as a high-end starter in this league. He's tall, he's fast, he's only 20 so he's a baby, he's smart and he has the right attitude. We'll see how how he ends up, but the tools are there in abundance.
2) Sterling Shepard - A
Shepard was my third best available player behind A'Shawn Robinson and Michael Thomas. That's why I didn't give this an A+: because I thought Robinson would've been a home run and I had Michael Thomas as the better WR than Shep. Having said that, Shep is one of my favorite players in this draft. He's smart, quick, tough and electric. He has excellent hands. He's a polished route runner. His character is off the charts. The only thing he doesn't have is size, which is why I had Thomas ahead of him, but so what? Jerry Rice wasn't the biggest. DeSean Jackson isn't the biggest. Steve Smith isn't the biggest. This was a fantastic pick and he'll be an amazing Giant on and off the field from day one. Such an easy player to root for.
3) Darian Thompson - B/B+
Thompson was my second best remaining FS behind Justin Simmons, but I thought Simmons was better by a fair margin. I would've liked either Simmons or LeRaven Clark in this slot. I think Clark has the tools to be a starting OT but his technique is fairly messy. Even so, he would've been a nice guy to gamble on.
Anyway, Thompson is a solid FS and I think he's better and more talented than any Safety on the roster not named Landon Collins. Excellent ball skills and size. Very smart and a leader. Deceptive speed. With the right coaching, he can be a productive centerfielder and ballhawk FS in this league.
4) BJ Goodson - B
Can't say much about him because, for the same reason as Apple, I didn't really key in on Goodson. I mean you had Lawson and Dodd on the line and Alexander, Kearse and Greene in the secondary, so I never really focused on Goodson. Only thing I knew about him is what I read from Sy. I'll trust McShay, NFL Network guys and Sy.
But I was absolutely shocked that Andrew Billings, Devontae Booker and Kenneth Dixon were still available. I would've taken one of those guys. Booker and Dixon have three-down ability and in the fourth round.
5) Paul Perkins - B
Only heard of him in passing. If we were going to take a RB at this juncture, Jordan Howard would've been a nice get. But again, I'll trust the guys who know more about this than I do. Many people love Perkins.
6) Jerell Adams - A+
Fantastic value at a position of need. Adams was Mayock's (and my) best player available. Many thought he was destined for Round 2 and AT LATEST, round 3. I have no idea why he slipped but what a fantastic get. A big, fast, strong TE with decent hands, long ams, strong blocking skills and great jumping ability. I think he starts week one.
What I would've done at the time:
1) CB Vernon Hargreaves III of Florida
2) DT A'Shawn Robinson of Alabama
3) OT LeRaven Clark of Texas Tech
4) RB Devontae Booker of Utah
5) TE Jerell Adams of South Carolina
6) WLB Travis Feeney of Washington
I like our draft better than yours above. WR was a SERIOUS need that was filled with a pro ready great route runner. I like Perkins better than Booker as well. Clark is solid but not plug and play IMO so instead of taking a project we get a dynamic playmaking safety.
Your draft is good but ours filled immediate needs minus any projects
I like taking the best player available and apparently so do the Giants, but fair enough. Difference of opinion and value.
After a pass rusher I felt CB was an important need and getting Apple was a high upside pick. Funny thing is, had Hargreaves been the pick it would have been perceived more positively from fans and "experts" alike, but if the Giants liked Apple better that's good enough for me.
While it would have been nice to add to the lines, there were only six picks to work with and we filled a bunch of needs without taking the big projects this year. Solid work.
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In comment 12938632 Giants2012 said:
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It's not a question of misuse, misinterpret or obfuscate what a #2 WR or #3 CBs assignment is. With a roster with so many holes you can't definitively say "well, if we had another CB we would have won". What if the Giants had a better RT, would they have controlled the football and not turned the ball over to the defense? What if a safety could help a CB, catch the football? What if a linebacker made a play? Would a better #2 receive have helped? Too many holes to make a claim any one position was the reason.
The poster i responded too claimed the Giants drafted the top CB in the draft. My question is how often has the top CB in a draft been slated as the #3 CB? From what we've read, the kid is very talented yet has a lot to learn. Learning for a rookie is true for all of them yet i don't recall a Joe Haden being slated as a #3 CB. I can't ever recall when a CB was considered the best in a draft class slated to be a #3 b/c had a lot to learn.
I like the kid like many do yet don't believe for a moment this was the player the Giants were anticipating at #10. With teams like Tennessee, Cleveland, Miami, Philly, Chicago, Seattle, etc navigating by trading up or back for players they want i question why the Giants didn't. If Floyd was so important to the Giants was the 4th Round pick really that important? Had news not leaked out would Chicago have moved up?
You really have some strange premises.
1.) Apple wasn't drafted to be the #3 CB. He was drafted to be the #1 CB. But he may very well start as the slot CB this year.
2.) Was there a RT at 10 that would replace Newhouse - Yes a kid with severe off the field problems that the team supposed to pick him passed and went to another and the other team (TN) that was known to be moving up to take him also passed. Both teams are known for taking players with off field problems (Balt and TN). If they passed, the Giants were also.
3.) Trade down means having a willing partner with a fair trade. It also means that the guy you want will be available at the point you trade back to. Maybe Apple was the last player graded in that tier - First or Second - and moving back would drop them to the 3rd tier. Reese already said he was the highest rated player without issues on the board.
Point is you get what you get at the position you are at. They cannot prevent teams from moving ahead. Or you can look at it this way - would you rather have Floyd or Conklin and lose the 3rd pick (have to beat what TN gave up) filling one hole or both Apple and Thompson - both needs filling two holes. Two players are better than one, especially when the top ones are equal in their tier rating. There were holes all over. So you fill the holes where you can.
Beyond that they did a good job of getting value at positions of need. OL is an obvious problem, but they still have cap money and there will certainly be some 6/1 cuts. I'd rather get good value than force the picks.
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with the exception of Ramsey the Giants "reached" for the top CB in the draft. Some of you are so funny.
How often does the top cornerback in the draft come in as the third CB on a team which set records for incompetence a year earlier?
When?
According to last year's numbers teams were in the Nickel defense 65% of the time. So I am going to say 65% of the defensive snaps.
Loved every other pick, but I may have gone Reggie Ragland at pick 2 and Braxton Miller or Carroo in the 3rd.
WR was a need to protect OBJ but I do not know how much better Shep over the rest will be. Ultimately in 2-3 years we will see.
Sel - Player - CBS GBN
010 Apple --- 020 021
040 Shepard - 059 061
071 Thompson 064 133
109 Goodson -115 N/R
149 Perkins -- 097 167
184 Adams ---- 118 117
So, from a strict value standpoint, the Giants would probably get a B- from CBS and a D from Colin and Co. But there's more to a draft class than just picking the highest-ranked propect at the latest possible pick. Overall - as Colin acknowledged on another thread - the Giants seem to have achieved what they set out to do. While they could have excited their fans by nabbing the #1 prospect with the tenth pick, an OT was not the priority (let alone one with as much baggage as Tunsil), and that choice would have left them unable to hit their real targets (CB/WR/ER), two of which they filled with young players who seem to fit their system really well. The edge-rusher thing simply wasn't in the cards: the value just wasn't there, at any of their picks.
Sel - Player - CBS GBN
N/A Lewis --- 174 134
N/A Okwara - 189 156
N/A Williams 198 132
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In comment 12939821 Anakim said:
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1 - Eli Apple - C+ with the potential to be an A
I was somewhat unfamiliar with Apple as he wasn't on my radar. Why? Because he was expected to go later in the first round than 10. Also, he was on a loaded Ohio State defense and I keyed in on Bosa and Lee. I figured that because Apple wasn't talked about as a top 10 prospect, I shouldn't really watch him. Therefore, all of my information before he was drafted came from guys talking and tweeting about him.
After reading about him, I feel a lot better than I did on Thursday. Apple has major potential. I had Vernon Hargreaves III as my best player available at #10 (clearly the Giants weren't ok with Myles Jack's knee) and I still think Hargreaves III will be a fantastic CB in the NFL but Reese swung for the fences here and I can't blame him. Apple is a project but with the right coaching, his flaws like being Mr. Grabby can be corrected and he can end up as a high-end starter in this league. He's tall, he's fast, he's only 20 so he's a baby, he's smart and he has the right attitude. We'll see how how he ends up, but the tools are there in abundance.
2) Sterling Shepard - A
Shepard was my third best available player behind A'Shawn Robinson and Michael Thomas. That's why I didn't give this an A+: because I thought Robinson would've been a home run and I had Michael Thomas as the better WR than Shep. Having said that, Shep is one of my favorite players in this draft. He's smart, quick, tough and electric. He has excellent hands. He's a polished route runner. His character is off the charts. The only thing he doesn't have is size, which is why I had Thomas ahead of him, but so what? Jerry Rice wasn't the biggest. DeSean Jackson isn't the biggest. Steve Smith isn't the biggest. This was a fantastic pick and he'll be an amazing Giant on and off the field from day one. Such an easy player to root for.
3) Darian Thompson - B/B+
Thompson was my second best remaining FS behind Justin Simmons, but I thought Simmons was better by a fair margin. I would've liked either Simmons or LeRaven Clark in this slot. I think Clark has the tools to be a starting OT but his technique is fairly messy. Even so, he would've been a nice guy to gamble on.
Anyway, Thompson is a solid FS and I think he's better and more talented than any Safety on the roster not named Landon Collins. Excellent ball skills and size. Very smart and a leader. Deceptive speed. With the right coaching, he can be a productive centerfielder and ballhawk FS in this league.
4) BJ Goodson - B
Can't say much about him because, for the same reason as Apple, I didn't really key in on Goodson. I mean you had Lawson and Dodd on the line and Alexander, Kearse and Greene in the secondary, so I never really focused on Goodson. Only thing I knew about him is what I read from Sy. I'll trust McShay, NFL Network guys and Sy.
But I was absolutely shocked that Andrew Billings, Devontae Booker and Kenneth Dixon were still available. I would've taken one of those guys. Booker and Dixon have three-down ability and in the fourth round.
5) Paul Perkins - B
Only heard of him in passing. If we were going to take a RB at this juncture, Jordan Howard would've been a nice get. But again, I'll trust the guys who know more about this than I do. Many people love Perkins.
6) Jerell Adams - A+
Fantastic value at a position of need. Adams was Mayock's (and my) best player available. Many thought he was destined for Round 2 and AT LATEST, round 3. I have no idea why he slipped but what a fantastic get. A big, fast, strong TE with decent hands, long ams, strong blocking skills and great jumping ability. I think he starts week one.
What I would've done at the time:
1) CB Vernon Hargreaves III of Florida
2) DT A'Shawn Robinson of Alabama
3) OT LeRaven Clark of Texas Tech
4) RB Devontae Booker of Utah
5) TE Jerell Adams of South Carolina
6) WLB Travis Feeney of Washington
I like our draft better than yours above. WR was a SERIOUS need that was filled with a pro ready great route runner. I like Perkins better than Booker as well. Clark is solid but not plug and play IMO so instead of taking a project we get a dynamic playmaking safety.
Your draft is good but ours filled immediate needs minus any projects
I like taking the best player available and apparently so do the Giants, but fair enough. Difference of opinion and value.
I guess the Colts think Clark is a plug and play, I
mentioned this on the SY's thread this morning.
I would have taken Clark in the 3rd.
Excluding WR, I like his picks better than the Giants picks.
The game is still won in the trenches!
Giants landed PFF's No. 3 WR prospect (Sterling Shepard), No. 3 RB (Paul Perkins) & No. 2 TE (Jerell Adams) with 2nd, 5th and 6th-rounders
Thanks!
I think Shepherd and Perkins will both be very good and fixtures for a long time.
I suspect the Giants will regret passing on Hargreaves but Apple will be solid.
Adams talent in the sixth intrigues.
I'm iffy on the two defensive players in the middle of the draft. Would prefer more athleticism but lets see.
His COD seems lacking from what I've seen. Not very agile.
Did Reese screw your wife or what? Give it a fucking rest.
Right, but in the videos I saw of him actually playing football he didn't look very agile. Hope I'm wrong. Anyway don't want to get hung up on the negative as I like this draft a lot.