Please STOP with the OL bashing

A big need for a RT. I think they will get one? Either via the draft or trade. I think this was the plan all along.

Section131 : 11:01 am
1. They only had 6 picks to play with

What does that have to do with the OL? If they had 7 would they have gone for an OLman?

2. This line was EIGTH in the NFL last year in offense

The line was not 8th in offense....Eli and OBj were...

3. Bobby Hart has a role on the right side somehow

At best, he is a backup.....

4. The offseason isn't finished yet

That I agree with.....there is the possibility of a June 1st cut, a late camp cut, or even a trade.....but we aren't going to make a move unless it is an upgrade.....

With all the holes on the team, several were not going to be filled by FAcy and the draft......and is it realistic to think that all 6 draftees become starters? We will be lucky if we get two.....while the others may not start, they may grow into a starting role, or be upgrades to some of the backups now in place.....

This was a good draft, in the sense that these guys, for the most part, don't look like projects.....they look like they can contribute and make plays....

We have to hope with a healthy ankle, we see improvement from Flowers....that Pugh can stay healthy.....That Richburg is the rock of this line.....maybe Jerry/Newhouse get better.....maybe, as you hope, Hart is the answer.....maybe we get lucky and someone falls into our lap......

You can't fix everything in one season....sometimes you have to take the lesser of two evils.....but this team looks like it is going to be fun to watch this year, if everything pans out right....

I'm not the only one taking this stance so save the "dumb shit" comments as it's obvious critical thinking is low on your priority list and need a big hug of positive reinforcement your team is great.

Remember the Dream team in Philly, etc. Forget them right, the Giants are awesome is all that sinks into heads like yours.

i think at least 4 will start whether or not they are quality starters remains to be seen.

shepard, goodson, thompson, perkins will see significant time this year

apple will too because drc tpically cannot stay healthy...
and truthfully TE seems to be wide open, who knows what adams ceiling is, he could be playing sooner than later. we took no projects in this draft and some guys are extremely polished for their age. shepard i think makes an IMMEDIATE imapct as in week 1

Giants2012 : 11:48 am : link : reply
Darkwa has better foot speed than both Ahmad Bradshaw and Brandon Jacobs. The backs need holes to run through.

he couldn't stay on the field.....he would have a good series, and then get nicked up....one time it was his back, I forgot what the others were....

We needed another RB......Hopefully, Perkins is that guy....

In comment 12938687 Giants2012 said:

Quote:

I'm not the only one taking this stance so save the "dumb shit" comments as it's obvious critical thinking is low on your priority list and need a big hug of positive reinforcement your team is great. Remember the Dream team in Philly, etc. Forget them right, the Giants are awesome is all that sinks into heads like yours.

who said the team is great? and NOBODY shares your opinion. yes people say the OL is in trouble myself included knows we need help but you havent said ONE positive thing yet and I dont think ANYBODY here feels all negative. you didnt even acknowledge the improvement on defense layughing at someone when they said the defense appears fixed. again youre negative as hell and thats fine, but dont for a minute act like the giants arent improved and havent filled holes

Neither did i yet Aren't we saying that every year though? Every year the team fills two holes and gets three more.

i am done here, you are just negative about EVERYTHING. do you have ANY positives to offer the convo? do you like ANYONE the giants drafted? talking about fucking foot speed of a RB, perkins was a late round pick and we got VERY good value there, everyone seems to think it but you point out ANY negative. didnt perkins have the top elusiveness rating? yea his foot speed sucks though i agree

Is going to see major time irregardless of drc getting hurt or not? Teams are in 3 wrsets 65% of the time. A good third cb, is required. He's going to play alot.

about Oline weaknesses are entirely valid. To express them is not bashing. Many here recall painfully well, the ineptitude of the 2013 season, where the Oline were consistently trampled in the first 6 games. Eli had no time to throw. The OL has improved since, but you can’t blame fans for wanting excellence.

For example, to question the choice of Eli Apple in the first is entirely valid. He's not likely to start. Decker and Tunsil were available, and likely will start, and statistically will have longer NFL careers than Apple. It's entirely debatable and valid to question these choices.

In comment 12938692 Doomster said:

Quote:

Giants2012 : 11:48 am : link : reply Darkwa has better foot speed than both Ahmad Bradshaw and Brandon Jacobs. The backs need holes to run through. he couldn't stay on the field.....he would have a good series, and then get nicked up....one time it was his back, I forgot what the others were.... We needed another RB......Hopefully, Perkins is that guy....

This^^^

In comment 12938708 Gregorio said:

Quote:

about Oline weaknesses are entirely valid. To express them is not bashing. Many here recall painfully well, the ineptitude of the 2013 season, where the Oline were consistently trampled in the first 6 games. Eli had no time to throw. The OL has improved since, but you can’t blame fans for wanting excellence. For example, to question the choice of Eli Apple in the first is entirely valid. He's not likely to start. Decker and Tunsil were available, and likely will start, and statistically will have longer NFL careers than Apple. It's entirely debatable and valid to question these choices.

1. yes its valid but to be negative about EVERY pick is silly

2. apple will start teams play a lot of 3 and 4 wides...

3. the OL value wasnt there, they dont want tunsil because of off field shit plus they dont want to move flowers...

RE: I never thought every hole would be filled this year.
Giants2012 : 11:56 am : link : reply
Neither did i yet Aren't we saying that every year though? Every year the team fills two holes and gets three more.

We sign players like Beason, have too many players who can't stay on the field, and because of too many bad seasons of drafting.....

This team roster has been made over, new HC, new OC, Spags has some horses to work with....if things pan out, and we get lucky with fewer injuries, we can turn this around...

In comment 12938692 Doomster said:

Quote:

Giants2012 : 11:48 am : link : reply Darkwa We needed another RB......Hopefully, Perkins is that guy....

For you and blue

The problem is they keep drafting the same positions and not developing players. Hart might be the first pick after Round 2 the team has developed in years. Unless you want to include Kuhn.

They drafted Williams, signed Vereen, signed Jennings, brought in Darkwa and still need another HB?

There is nobody here from the 2012 draft class and only two have been productive from the 2013 class. Only two see the field on a regular basis from 2014.

Reese is on notice for a reason and last i checked the Skins and Boys don't appear as incompetent as years ago while the franchise QB is aging. Meanwhile, don't worry about the right side of the OL? How about not giving the front office the benefit of doubt and I've been as big a Reese supporter as any.

when Larry went down with an injury. Donnell has some talent but blocking is not one of them. Tye is no powerhouse blocker but at least he attempts to make contact with a edge rusher.

Gregorio : 12:00 pm : link : reply
For example, to question the choice of Eli Apple in the first is entirely valid. He's not likely to start. Decker and Tunsil were available, and likely will start, and statistically will have longer NFL careers than Apple. It's entirely debatable and valid to question these choices.

Can you guarantee Decker/Tunsil will start, and at what level?

Did you see or DB's last year? What happened when DRC went out of the game? What happened when Prince was lost? Who was our nickel/slot corner? Apple is needed.....the only debate is, was he was a better pick than the 7 guys picked after him....and only time can answer that....

In comment 12938708 Gregorio said:

Quote:

about Oline weaknesses are entirely valid. To express them is not bashing. Many here recall painfully well, the ineptitude of the 2013 season, where the Oline were consistently trampled in the first 6 games. Eli had no time to throw. The OL has improved since, but you can’t blame fans for wanting excellence. For example, to question the choice of Eli Apple in the first is entirely valid. He's not likely to start. Decker and Tunsil were available, and likely will start, and statistically will have longer NFL careers than Apple. It's entirely debatable and valid to question these choices.

+1

Great post. Maybe a few other will read it and maybe understand.

In comment 12938687 Giants2012 said:

Quote:

I'm not the only one taking this stance so save the "dumb shit" comments as it's obvious critical thinking is low on your priority list and need a big hug of positive reinforcement your team is great. Remember the Dream team in Philly, etc. Forget them right, the Giants are awesome is all that sinks into heads like yours.

You and others would be pissed off about the lack of a No 2 receiver if the Giants picked a OT in round 2 and not Shepard. You come off as someone who prefers to be angry rather than not.

The Giants had a ton of holes after the season, more that one season could fix. If you agree with this why can't you say anything good of the progress made? Are all holes fixed? Of course not. But it certainly appears that they have closed quite a few.

And yes, I know they haven't played a game yet and how this teams comes together is important. And yes Philly had the Dream Team and yes the rookies are unproven.

I don't recall one positive post from you. If you can't find any reason not to have hope that things are better this year I'd suggest you do one or more of the following.
Take a pill.
Stop being involved with the Giants. Stop posting/reading/caring. It obviously gives you no pleasure.
Keep it to yourself.

Create a separate thread for yourself. Most of your complaints are for past years and cannot be undone. It is time to move on.

In comment 12938735 therealmf said:

Quote:

In (1) You and others would be pissed off about the lack of a No 2 receiver if the Giants picked a OT in round 2 and not Shepard. You come off as someone who prefers to be angry rather than not. (2) The Giants had a ton of holes after the season, more that one season could fix. If you agree with this why can't you say anything good of the progress made? Are all holes fixed? Of course not. But it certainly appears that they have closed quite a few. (3) I don't recall one positive post from you. If you can't find any reason not to have hope that things are better this year I'd suggest you do one or more of the following.

1 - please don't speak for me as it's obvious you are only guessing and reading my comments here. I just saw Cam Newtown almost win a Super Bowl without Benjamin and mediocre receivers. I didn't want a receiver yet understand why they drafted one.

2. The Giants, like every offseason, had to fill holes and did. Like every year for the past four years they fill holes and then create more. It's clear the cap dollars accumulated b/c the team was creating more holes than they were filling.

3. It's obvious you only read this this and honestly, I've never even heard of you.

Tunsil, Stanley, Conklin and Decker, the other OT were not plug and play. Many like Spriggs had strength issues and are slated to be redshirted. They couldn't draft Tunsil (obviously), Stanley and Conklin were gone. Unless they reach for Decker, the OL wouldn't factor into 2016 anyway outside of competitive depth. I hate reaching for players, that's a recipe for disaster.

So it makes sense what they did, I don't think they were avoiding OL per se but perhaps they felt, this guy is not helping us this year anyhow, we'll secure a vet for RT. From JR's responses, I feel 100% that they will make some trade/signing to get help there. A vet that can play right away. Will it be a young stud like Conklin, obviously not. But they can upgrade Newhouse.

In comment 12938741 Giants2012 said:

Quote:

In comment 12938735 therealmf said: Quote: In (1) You and others would be pissed off about the lack of a No 2 receiver if the Giants picked a OT in round 2 and not Shepard. You come off as someone who prefers to be angry rather than not. (2) The Giants had a ton of holes after the season, more that one season could fix. If you agree with this why can't you say anything good of the progress made? Are all holes fixed? Of course not. But it certainly appears that they have closed quite a few. (3) I don't recall one positive post from you. If you can't find any reason not to have hope that things are better this year I'd suggest you do one or more of the following. 1 - please don't speak for me as it's obvious you are only guessing and reading my comments here. I just saw Cam Newtown almost win a Super Bowl without Benjamin and mediocre receivers. I didn't want a receiver yet understand why they drafted one. 2. The Giants, like every offseason, had to fill holes and did. Like every year for the past four years they fill holes and then create more. It's clear the cap dollars accumulated b/c the team was creating more holes than they were filling. 3. It's obvious you only read this this and honestly, I've never even heard of you.

1- Fine, I think most of us did. But Carolina is a running team with a very strong defense, so I don't understand the implied comparison.

2- Again you are using the past to to justify your present view.

3- I don't know you either. But I have seen a number of your posts and the ones I've seen are negative.

In comment 12938743 Jim in Forest Hills said:

Quote:

Tunsil, Stanley, Conklin and Decker, the other OT were not plug and play. Many like Spriggs had strength issues and are slated to be redshirted. They couldn't draft Tunsil (obviously), Stanley and Conklin were gone. Unless they reach for Decker, the OL wouldn't factor into 2016 anyway outside of competitive depth. I hate reaching for players, that's a recipe for disaster. So it makes sense what they did, I don't think they were avoiding OL per se but perhaps they felt, this guy is not helping us this year anyhow, we'll secure a vet for RT. From JR's responses, I feel 100% that they will make some trade/signing to get help there. A vet that can play right away. Will it be a young stud like Conklin, obviously not. But they can upgrade Newhouse.

How dare you make sense of OL question.

In comment 12938639 Section131 said:

Quote:

I mean why even root for this team?

He pulled the same crap on Mets' threads, mocking Sandy Alderson at every opportunity, then strangely disappeared when they started winning. He's a one-trick pony whose trick grew tired long ago.

In comment 12938773 Section331 said:

Quote:

In comment 12938639 Section131 said: Quote: I mean why even root for this team? He pulled the same crap on Mets' threads, mocking Sandy Alderson at every opportunity, then strangely disappeared when they started winning. He's a one-trick pony whose trick grew tired long ago.

Oh you are so full of it. Claiming Flores was not a SS sent your type into meltdown mode and look what happened. The entire city was after Aldersson until the Cespedes trade while your type preached 90 wins for a team that couldn't even score. You're like Flores, a bench warmer poster

Believe me, I never claimed Flores was a good fit at SS, quite the opposite actually. But, as with most of your threads, don't let facts get in the way of your rant.

I was in the 82-85 range until the mid-season moves. I don't know who you have me confused for, but I stand by my statement. There's nothing wrong with criticizing Alderson (or Reese for that matter), but for you, it was incessant and tiring.

In comment 12938789 Section331 said:

Quote:

Believe me, I never claimed Flores was a good fit at SS, quite the opposite actually. But, as with most of your threads, don't let facts get in the way of your rant.

You're so full of it. I questioned Flores and Alderson and that's it. You're just a prick who chimes without any facts. Go ride the bench

in another thread just yesterday? Does the 12 in your handle represent your age? Grow up dude.

In comment 12938801 Section331 said:

Quote:

in another thread just yesterday? Does the 12 in your handle represent your age? Grow up dude.

That was me. He then called out another poster for name calling which was kinda hilarious.

No gray area ever with some people. Either this team goes 16-0 or 0-16. The OL is still a work in progress while we upgraded other units. Defense is why we missed the playoffs last year, not or lackluster run game. Do some of you even watch?

In comment 12938801 Section331 said:
[quote] in another thread just yesterday? Does the 12 in your handle represent your age? Grow up dude. [/quote

Go to the Mets thread and post with Z all day and night. He'll give your the cheerleading you need b/c you can't think. Get lost

It's valid to criticize the failure to address the OL but the talent wasn't there. Tunsil? He's an injury flag and a character flag. Decker? Most would've considered him a huge reach at 10. There was a huge drop off in talent after Stanley/Conklin and I'm glad Reese didn't force the pick.

The Giants had a ton of holes and addressed almost all of them with players that can impact immediately. The Giants have the most talent they've had in the secondary with DRC/Jenkins, and draft picks invested in Collins/Thompson/Apple. The DL is slim on depth but has premium starting talent with JPP/Vernon/Hankins/Harrison. The LB corps has athleticism and potential with Kennard/Robinson/Goodson. On paper this D should go from the worst to above average overnight.

Offensively, the Giants have a franchise QB with a top 3 WR. They added arguably the most pro ready WR in Sheppard. They got a steal in Adams who was the most athletic TE in the draft from a SEC program. They added a playmaker to the RB mix. 3/5 of the OL is stocked with talent.

High character guys with no injury issues. Productive players from big time programs. This team should be in the playoffs if they have better injury luck, even with weakness on the right side of the OL.

@ giants2012 telling others they cant think.

you clearly have ZERO idea how this game works. The giants have filled many needs and the positivity that fans have is just as justified as your hate for seemingly every move the giants make. we filled needs you want to hate on every pick...we had 6 picks we cant get EVERYTHING. outside the top few tackles NONE of them are plug and play, all seem to need work and/or are projects. that doesnt help us NOW. what helped us now are the picks they made filling immediate needs. offseason isnt even over. you must be a real joy to be around IRL. such a positive human being lol

again...what route would you have taken?

In comment 12938837 JohnVB said:

Quote:

It's valid to criticize the failure to address the OL but the talent wasn't there. Tunsil? He's an injury flag and a character flag. Decker? Most would've considered him a huge reach at 10. There was a huge drop off in talent after Stanley/Conklin and I'm glad Reese didn't force the pick. The Giants had a ton of holes and addressed almost all of them with players that can impact immediately. The Giants have the most talent they've had in the secondary with DRC/Jenkins, and draft picks invested in Collins/Thompson/Apple. The DL is slim on depth but has premium starting talent with JPP/Vernon/Hankins/Harrison. The LB corps has athleticism and potential with Kennard/Robinson/Goodson. On paper this D should go from the worst to above average overnight. Offensively, the Giants have a franchise QB with a top 3 WR. They added arguably the most pro ready WR in Sheppard. They got a steal in Adams who was the most athletic TE in the draft from a SEC program. They added a playmaker to the RB mix. 3/5 of the OL is stocked with talent. High character guys with no injury issues. Productive players from big time programs. This team should be in the playoffs if they have better injury luck, even with weakness on the right side of the OL.

+1

this sums up everything I have said/believe

In comment 12938869 BleedBlue said:

Quote:

@ giants2012 telling others they cant think. you clearly have ZERO idea how this game works. The giants have filled many needs and the positivity that fans have is just as justified as your hate for seemingly every move the giants make. we filled needs you want to hate on every pick...we had 6 picks we cant get EVERYTHING. outside the top few tackles NONE of them are plug and play, all seem to need work and/or are projects. that doesnt help us NOW. what helped us now are the picks they made filling immediate needs. offseason isnt even over. you must be a real joy to be around IRL. such a positive human being lol again...what route would you have taken?

Thanks Troll, some nice half ass research there. That post he made was after pick 1 and before Round 2 when many news outlets, etc were all questioning what happened at #10.

If you like right side of the OL then good for you. Quite a few find it unsettling being the project has been underway since 2012.

In comment 12938887 Giants2012 said:

Quote:

In comment 12938869 BleedBlue said: Quote: @ giants2012 telling others they cant think. you clearly have ZERO idea how this game works. The giants have filled many needs and the positivity that fans have is just as justified as your hate for seemingly every move the giants make. we filled needs you want to hate on every pick...we had 6 picks we cant get EVERYTHING. outside the top few tackles NONE of them are plug and play, all seem to need work and/or are projects. that doesnt help us NOW. what helped us now are the picks they made filling immediate needs. offseason isnt even over. you must be a real joy to be around IRL. such a positive human being lol again...what route would you have taken? Thanks Troll, some nice half ass research there. That post he made was after pick 1 and before Round 2 when many news outlets, etc were all questioning what happened at #10. If you like right side of the OL then good for you. Quite a few find it unsettling being the project has been underway since 2012.

am a troll? lol thats hilarious. I HAVE SAID MULTIPLE times i am not happy about the right side but i dont bash EVERY giants pick like you bc youre a miserable prick.

again what would YOU have done in the draft since EVERY pick was bad, in those spots all things considered who do you take instead?

Blank off

I never bashed all the picks like you claim. You're an idiot and that half ass research proves you're a troll.

In comment 12938901 Giants2012 said:

Quote:

Blank off I never bashed all the picks like you claim. You're an idiot and that half ass research proves you're a troll.

what research wtf are you talking about lmao...

go back and reread your posts.

you bitched about perkins, you bitched about D thompson, you bitched about apple, you literally complain about everything...

FOR THE 100TH time....who ould YOU have taken?

Start for the beginning of the thread or get lost.

In comment 12938909 Giants2012 said:

Quote:

Start for the beginning of the thread or get lost.

LOL youre silly man.

I have been posting on this board for a while and I am nowhere near a troll. its funny though how the person actually trolling tries to turn it around and call others a troll. have a good day man, your football knowledge is nonexistent

In comment 12938917 BleedBlue said:

Quote:

In comment 12938909 Giants2012 said: Quote: Start for the beginning of the thread or get lost. LOL youre silly man. I have been posting on this board for a while and I am nowhere near a troll. its funny though how the person actually trolling tries to turn it around and call others a troll. have a good day man, your football knowledge is nonexistent

Ditto - go preach how the "defense is fixed" and be a hypocrite by claiming the FS is an instant upgrade in one post followed by it takes rookies time to develop. You're all over the place and a troll.

and for the record I would have grabbed Tunsil, pot gas-mask and all. However I don't dislike the Apple pick, and I agree with all the rest of the picks. I don't think the value was there for us on the OL in Rds2, 3, and so on. Shepard, Thompson, and Goodson were the best picks we could have made.

SO we need to improve RT, but I don't thin kits right to bash this draft for not doing it. We improved CB, S, WR, and LB, all areas of need too. It wasn't all going to happen at once, and I'm glad they didn't skip Goodson (for example) just to take some RT who wasnt' going to make it anyway.

I do think Newhouse is better at RT then our 3rd WR was (Shepard will replace), our slot corner was (Apple), about the same as our current FS, and he's definitely better than whoever our 3rd starting linebacker is (who hopefully Goodson replaces).

So I agree with the picks from that point too.

In comment 12938930 Giants2012 said:

Quote:

In comment 12938917 BleedBlue said: Quote: In comment 12938909 Giants2012 said: Quote: Start for the beginning of the thread or get lost. LOL youre silly man. I have been posting on this board for a while and I am nowhere near a troll. its funny though how the person actually trolling tries to turn it around and call others a troll. have a good day man, your football knowledge is nonexistent Ditto - go preach how the "defense is fixed" and be a hypocrite by claiming the FS is an instant upgrade in one post followed by it takes rookies time to develop. You're all over the place and a troll.

lol i didnt say rookies take time to develop that was someone else...but it is a true statement lol

In comment 12938930 Giants2012 said:

Quote:

In comment 12938917 BleedBlue said: Quote: In comment 12938909 Giants2012 said: Quote: Start for the beginning of the thread or get lost. LOL youre silly man. I have been posting on this board for a while and I am nowhere near a troll. its funny though how the person actually trolling tries to turn it around and call others a troll. have a good day man, your football knowledge is nonexistent Ditto - go preach how the "defense is fixed" and be a hypocrite by claiming the FS is an instant upgrade in one post followed by it takes rookies time to develop. You're all over the place and a troll.

Hahaha freaking out again... what is it that you said psychopath? To he honest i just think you are stupid and have zero knowledge of football rather than being a psychopath.

instead of flowers-pugh-richburg-jerry-newhouse would you get on board with flowers-jerry-richburg-hart-pugh? Basically putting Pugh back at RT for the season.

how often, in terms of the percentage of defensive snaps, the Giants played a 3rd cornerback (recent years)?

In comment 12939648 Gregorio said:

Quote:

how often, in terms of the percentage of defensive snaps, the Giants played a 3rd cornerback (recent years)?

I don't know about the Giants, specifically, but the league average for nickel/sub-packages is around 65%, because offenses are trotting out 3 WRs at the same rate. It's around 30% for 4 WRs. Today, at minimum, you need three starting-caliber CBs.

Add to that the fact that the draft is primarily about the future, not just to fill immediate needs. When you factor in the uncertainty surrounding DRC's future with the team after 2016, drafting a top-tier CB this year makes a whole lot of sense.

In comment 12939917 Klaatu said:

Quote:

In comment 12939648 Gregorio said: Quote: how often, in terms of the percentage of defensive snaps, the Giants played a 3rd cornerback (recent years)? I don't know about the Giants, specifically, but the league average for nickel/sub-packages is around 65%, because offenses are trotting out 3 WRs at the same rate. It's around 30% for 4 WRs. Today, at minimum, you need three starting-caliber CBs. Add to that the fact that the draft is primarily about the future, not just to fill immediate needs. When you factor in the uncertainty surrounding DRC's future with the team after 2016, drafting a top-tier CB this year makes a whole lot of sense.

I don't know the exact percentage the Giants play, but my
guess would be at least 60% of the time. Expect the
'Apple of your eye' to see plenty of playing time.
Interesting thread, geez.

to replace Newhouse this line will be fine..

In comment 12939648 Gregorio said:

Quote:

how often, in terms of the percentage of defensive snaps, the Giants played a 3rd cornerback (recent years)?

Not sure but we know the team used 3 safeties for a while and had success years ago.