More than likely this year or next Giants will "crash-and-burn." Don't think Jerry has a clue. Here is how it should have broken out:
1--- OT -- Tunsil
2--- DE/T-- Jonathan Bullard
3--- CB Kendall Fuller
4-- WR Pharoah Cooper
5--- OLB Jatavis Brown
6--- FS Deandre Houston-Carson
Bullard is okay but not most pressing need we got a very good wr in second.
Just delete this thread
2) DT A'Shawn Robinson of Alabama
3) OT LeRaven Clark of Texas Tech
4) RB Devontae Booker of Utah
5) TE Jerell Adams of South Carolina
6) WLB Travis Feeney of Washington
I love the Shepard pick. It's an A pick. What would've made it an A+ pick, IMO, is if we took A'Shawn Robinson or Michael Thomas.
2) DT A'Shawn Robinson of Alabama
3) OT LeRaven Clark of Texas Tech
4) RB Devontae Booker of Utah
5) TE Jerell Adams of South Carolina
6) WLB Travis Feeney of Washington
So you wanted to take Adams one round higher than we actually took him? Brilliant.
2--- DE/T-- Jonathan Bullard - I don't get this pick at all. Not a true 4-3 and I can't tell you what is special about him. I can tell you exactly what is special about Shepard, and go on and on about it.
3--- CB Kendall Fuller - Why? If his brother wasn't in the NFL, would he be a 3rd rounder? I don't think he's that good of a player, personally. I haven't seen it, and he's a medical flag, too. Thompson wasn't my preferred choice, because he honestly is a sloppy tackler. And you look at Justin Simmons, who was available, and he just doesn't have that issue at all. But the guy had 19 interceptions, so hopefully that production is translatable. Better pick and at a need position than Fuller, anyway.
4-- WR Pharoah Cooper - I liked Cooper because he has the dog mentality. But an undersized receiver who doesn't fly and is going to have problems getting separation downfield? I just don't know if he'll make as big an impact in the NFL. I have some doubts about him and I hope I'm wrong, because I really like his game and his toughness. What I do know is BJ Goodson is a linebacker's linebacker. He is a leader, he is physically tough, has great power and football IQ, and is probably going to have a long, productive career.
5--- OLB Jatavis Brown - I got nothing on this guy.
6--- FS Deandre Houston-Carson - or this guy.
But in both Perkins and Adams, I like the picks and thing both are very likely to contribute in big ways to our team.
If it was me picking, I probably would've gone Tunsil, Michael Thomas, Nick Vannett, Rashard Robinson, Jonathan Williams, and then probably Charone Peak or Harlan Miller.
I'm glad the Giants got the players they got, and I'm confident their group of players will outperform my group of players. (Except for Vannett... he's going to Gronk it up in the NFL! :P)
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1) CB Vernon Hargreaves III of Florida
2) DT A'Shawn Robinson of Alabama
3) OT LeRaven Clark of Texas Tech
4) RB Devontae Booker of Utah
5) TE Jerell Adams of South Carolina
6) WLB Travis Feeney of Washington
So you wanted to take Adams one round higher than we actually took him? Brilliant.
Idiot, I didn't know he would've been taken a round earlier. Many didn't. In fact, most didn't.
That's because Ohio State had such inconsistent QB play and the offense centered around Zeke. I really think that given Thomas' abilities, if he had a decent QB throwing to him, he would be a fantastic WR.
Reese: Hmm... what you think, Mr. Mara
J. Mara: Is that the guy I just saw with the darth vader mask and marijuana utensil on tv?
Ross: Um... yeah.
Mara: Well..nope. Who else you got?
2--- DE/T-- Jonathan Bullard - I don't get this pick at all. Not a true 4-3 and I can't tell you what is special about him. I can tell you exactly what is special about Shepard, and go on and on about it.
3--- CB Kendall Fuller - Why? If his brother wasn't in the NFL, would he be a 3rd rounder? I don't think he's that good of a player, personally. I haven't seen it, and he's a medical flag, too. Thompson wasn't my preferred choice, because he honestly is a sloppy tackler. And you look at Justin Simmons, who was available, and he just doesn't have that issue at all. But the guy had 19 interceptions, so hopefully that production is translatable. Better pick and at a need position than Fuller, anyway.
4-- WR Pharoah Cooper - I liked Cooper because he has the dog mentality. But an undersized receiver who doesn't fly and is going to have problems getting separation downfield? I just don't know if he'll make as big an impact in the NFL. I have some doubts about him and I hope I'm wrong, because I really like his game and his toughness. What I do know is BJ Goodson is a linebacker's linebacker. He is a leader, he is physically tough, has great power and football IQ, and is probably going to have a long, productive career.
5--- OLB Jatavis Brown - I got nothing on this guy.
6--- FS Deandre Houston-Carson - or this guy.
But in both Perkins and Adams, I like the picks and thing both are very likely to contribute in big ways to our team.
If it was me picking, I probably would've gone Tunsil, Michael Thomas, Nick Vannett, Rashard Robinson, Jonathan Williams, and then probably Charone Peak or Harlan Miller.
I'm glad the Giants got the players they got, and I'm confident their group of players will outperform my group of players. (Except for Vannett... he's going to Gronk it up in the NFL! :P)
First round pick Tunsil – I think the kid just made stupid mistake. IMO definitely worth the gamble.
Round 2 Bullard- he gets in the backfield. He can be a disrupter in a 4-3 DE. I hear some say only 3-4 but others say he is a 4-3 guy. From what I’ve seen the guy is very quick for his size.
Round 3—Don’t know why you bring up his brother. Anyhow CB is a need and Fuller is among the fastest corners in the draft if healthy. He is supposed to be ready and imo too talented to pass up if he is healthy. He went in the 3rd round anyways. SO if he is ready he would have been real good value in 3rd round.
Round 4—I don’t understand why you are so concerned with Cooper’s height but not Shepard’s. Cooper is slightly taller and runs almost just as fast. The Giants could have gotten strong 4th round value here.
I thought the draft was poor. They may over-achieve a bit this year if Eli doesn't get killed. And when JPP leaves next year and if O.O. doesn't produce - we're going to get burned with a weak pass rush. That's why Bullard is so important. He'll get in the backfield as an end with a year under his belt.
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1--- OT -- Tunsil - when you make a pick, you are hiring the person, bringing THE PERSON into your building, to be your employee, to interact with your other employees. And in terms of a first rounder, the cost of picking the wrong PERSON can be very steep. All things (off the field) being equal, my pick would've been Tunsil as well. But he was not a clean player, and the bottom line is that we aren't true stakeholders that get damaged if he is the wrong person you bring in to your building.
2--- DE/T-- Jonathan Bullard - I don't get this pick at all. Not a true 4-3 and I can't tell you what is special about him. I can tell you exactly what is special about Shepard, and go on and on about it.
3--- CB Kendall Fuller - Why? If his brother wasn't in the NFL, would he be a 3rd rounder? I don't think he's that good of a player, personally. I haven't seen it, and he's a medical flag, too. Thompson wasn't my preferred choice, because he honestly is a sloppy tackler. And you look at Justin Simmons, who was available, and he just doesn't have that issue at all. But the guy had 19 interceptions, so hopefully that production is translatable. Better pick and at a need position than Fuller, anyway.
4-- WR Pharoah Cooper - I liked Cooper because he has the dog mentality. But an undersized receiver who doesn't fly and is going to have problems getting separation downfield? I just don't know if he'll make as big an impact in the NFL. I have some doubts about him and I hope I'm wrong, because I really like his game and his toughness. What I do know is BJ Goodson is a linebacker's linebacker. He is a leader, he is physically tough, has great power and football IQ, and is probably going to have a long, productive career.
5--- OLB Jatavis Brown - I got nothing on this guy.
6--- FS Deandre Houston-Carson - or this guy.
But in both Perkins and Adams, I like the picks and thing both are very likely to contribute in big ways to our team.
If it was me picking, I probably would've gone Tunsil, Michael Thomas, Nick Vannett, Rashard Robinson, Jonathan Williams, and then probably Charone Peak or Harlan Miller.
I'm glad the Giants got the players they got, and I'm confident their group of players will outperform my group of players. (Except for Vannett... he's going to Gronk it up in the NFL! :P)
First round pick Tunsil – I think the kid just made stupid mistake. IMO definitely worth the gamble.
It's not your team and you won't be personally responsible for paying him and having him represent your organization to your fan base.
1 10 Eli Apple | CB, Ohio State
2 40 Sterling Shepard | WR, Oklahoma
3 71 Jonathan Bullard | DL, Florida
4 109 B.J. Goodson | ILB, Clemson
5 149 Paul Perkins | RB, UCLA
6 184 Jerell Adams | TE, South Carolina
There are a lot of names you could plug in at 71, although the best values in that round may have been DTs and developmental LOTs. Whether those picks (or Bullard) make sense depends on how much value you attach to Thompson as a potential upgrade over the current mess at FS.
I don't buy your premise that Fuller replaces Apple at a bargain price. Even the worst write-ups for Apple rated him a first round pick, albeit a raw one. Fuller's knee dropped him all the way to #84. There's no way to know when - or whether - he will come all the way back.
Overall, even with the benefit of hindsight, it's hard to improve much on what the Giants did. They weren't taking Tunsil, and they graded Apple higher than Hargreaves, so that takes care of round one. After that, it seems like a well-constructed draft class. And as for the other big need, there was never good value on the board at ROT.
Agreed. And he'll come cheap cause his entire wardrobe consists of underwear.
Of course if their picks turn out to be not quite as good they probably won't bring it up ;>)
Also, it doesn't count unless you made the picks in "real time" as the players came off the board. (I'm pretty sure Anakim did, but I'm not sure about the rest of you.)
Obviously it's a lot easier to make the picks after the fact when you see where all the players were actually picked.
No wonder once the draft is over we are like "Jesus, let the preseason get here ASAP!!!"
1 10 Eli Apple | CB, Ohio State
2 40 Sterling Shepard | WR, Oklahoma
3 71 Jonathan Bullard | DL, Florida
4 109 B.J. Goodson | ILB, Clemson
5 149 Paul Perkins | RB, UCLA
6 184 Jerell Adams | TE, South Carolina
There are a lot of names you could plug in at 71, although the best values in that round may have been DTs and developmental LOTs. Whether those picks (or Bullard) make sense depends on how much value you attach to Thompson as a potential upgrade over the current mess at FS.
I don't buy your premise that Fuller replaces Apple at a bargain price. Even the worst write-ups for Apple rated him a first round pick, albeit a raw one. Fuller's knee dropped him all the way to #84. There's no way to know when - or whether - he will come all the way back.
Overall, even with the benefit of hindsight, it's hard to improve much on what the Giants did. They weren't taking Tunsil, and they graded Apple higher than Hargreaves, so that takes care of round one. After that, it seems like a well-constructed draft class. And as for the other big need, there was never good value on the board at ROT.
I mentioned before the draft started I would have taken Bullard in Round 2. When he went in round 3, there wasn't any DE's available I would have taken. SO yeah I still thought they should have taken Bullard. The others above him in my view were gone. I also went with an OT in Round 1 and in Round 3 I went with a CB. And in round 4 a WR but Cooper was better than what I had. I'm very surprised he was there.
As far as your comment - Fuller vs Apple-- it's not Fuller vs Apple it's Tunsil vs Apple. IMO Tunsil will be better football player than Apple and he'll do the most important thing for the Giants and that is to protect our star QB the next several years.
And a further point on Bullard. JPP is gone next year. JPP is gone next year. What if OO is a bust? What type of a pass rush are we going to have? It's not like in year 1 you draft a rookie De and he'll magically be a good pas rusher. Possible -- but if you get Bullard you have TWO options that ONE (Bullard or OO) can be legit player.
2. Jason Spriggs | OT, Indiana. Jones and Newhouse, do I need to say anything more.
3. Devontae Booker | RB, Utah.
4. Andrew Billings | DT, Baylor. I do love Goodson with this pick but just not able to pass on Billings.
5. B.J. Goodson | ILB, Clemson. Just hope that he will still be here.
6. DeAndre Houston-Carson | FS, William & Mary. Know that this was a deep draft for safeties and felt like the Giants could have waited. Houston-Carson was the prize just waiting for the Giants.
Idiot, I didn't know he would've been taken a round earlier. Many didn't. In fact, most didn't.
Don't bother, they just sit around and ridicule everybody's opinion which differs from them as if the Giants drafted exactly who they wanted in each round.
You were great breaking down a lot of info over the past month.
allstarjim lays out the downside of the off-field doubts and questions, but by pick #10, Tunsil's agent was out with the facts that this was a two-year old video and that his client had tested clean in all of the administered drug tests. We're talking marijuana here, folks, weed, which it has been estimated 65% of the college student world tokes, at some time or other.
Contrast that with the putative Round 1OL last year whom no one would touch until Dallas signed him as an UDFA and (as I recall) stepped in as a starter mid-season. Wasn't that a homicide/murder probe? Someone was dead.
Or even our beloved Ahmad Bradshaw--we all loved this guy's heart and fire and talent--who dropped to pick #250 in the 7th for a stupid error in judgment for stealing a VCR, the season before the draft, not two years before. The argument there, a valid one for sure, is that he went 7th and Tunsil was in the conversation10th overall. Legit debate.
allstarjim, even after outlining the case against Tunsil, said he would have probably picked him anyway. This was a guy who was rated as anywhere from the first to the fourth most talented guy in the entire draft, at a position of need--and the Flowers-Tunsil position debate would have played out and the Giants would be the stronger for it, on offense.
The pillorying of Tunsil for this, especially in light of the circumstances in which it arose of a vindictive family member who wanted to destroy his stepson (if it was the stepfather who hacked the a/c), was hysterical and brutal, and an opportunity to take advantage. The Giants chose to turn a blind eye to assessing inconceivable opportunity and a level headed balancing of the circumstances vs. being swayed by the hysteria of the moment, imo. For a two-year old bong session?
Stop lying. I don't have other threads. Stop it. You don't like my picks fine. Before the draft I had said Stanley, Bullard, Hoawrd, Burbrdige, Schobert and Tavon Young. Everything played differently. I just believe we had chance to get two real good bigs in rounds 1 and 2 and it would have covered us the following year.
Stop lying. How many handles do you have?
I imagine Tunsil will go on to have a great career in the NFL....but he is never going to live down that video. I would have been embarrassed if the team I follow had drafted him at 10.
allstarjim lays out the downside of the off-field doubts and questions, but by pick #10, Tunsil's agent was out with the facts that this was a two-year old video and that his client had tested clean in all of the administered drug tests. We're talking marijuana here, folks, weed, which it has been estimated 65% of the college student world tokes, at some time or other.
Contrast that with the putative Round 1OL last year whom no one would touch until Dallas signed him as an UDFA and (as I recall) stepped in as a starter mid-season. Wasn't that a homicide/murder probe? Someone was dead.
Or even our beloved Ahmad Bradshaw--we all loved this guy's heart and fire and talent--who dropped to pick #250 in the 7th for a stupid error in judgment for stealing a VCR, the season before the draft, not two years before. The argument there, a valid one for sure, is that he went 7th and Tunsil was in the conversation10th overall. Legit debate.
allstarjim, even after outlining the case against Tunsil, said he would have probably picked him anyway. This was a guy who was rated as anywhere from the first to the fourth most talented guy in the entire draft, at a position of need--and the Flowers-Tunsil position debate would have played out and the Giants would be the stronger for it, on offense.
The pillorying of Tunsil for this, especially in light of the circumstances in which it arose of a vindictive family member who wanted to destroy his stepson (if it was the stepfather who hacked the a/c), was hysterical and brutal, and an opportunity to take advantage. The Giants chose to turn a blind eye to assessing inconceivable opportunity and a level headed balancing of the circumstances vs. being swayed by the hysteria of the moment, imo. For a two-year old bong session?
Thank you!!
I think what you'll find here is the ones more vicious on this thread didn't want an OT - so anyone that brings it up - they blast away.
But there are quite a few other people who said that video is most likely from the past 6 months. Either way, it goes to a continued string of poor decision making. Leaving a traceable trail when asking for $$, having video doing things you shouldn't, having a domestic situation.
You add it all up, and it isn't just about pot, which seems to be the easy answer everyone wants. Hell, there are still a lot of people here who have the moronic stance that Will Hill was let go because of pot.
The pillorying of Tunsil for this, especially in light of the circumstances in which it arose of a vindictive family member who wanted to destroy his stepson (if it was the stepfather who hacked the a/c), was hysterical and brutal, and an opportunity to take advantage. The Giants chose to turn a blind eye to assessing inconceivable opportunity and a level headed balancing of the circumstances vs. being swayed by the hysteria of the moment, imo. For a two-year old bong session?
Time will tell. I have to think research was done by teams and this was not the only red flag but who knows. It's not like he slipped too far as Miami took him.
Is this a hyperbole Warren Sapp situation or closer to the self destructive Manziel type? Time will tell.
And I love the idea that they didnt want to take a player who will be under investigation regarding payments from Ole Miss because Eli is from that school. That might have been the funniest/dumbest thing I have heard yet about this whole thing.
The Giants didnt take him because they never take anyone with any kind of perceived red flag. But they will stand by a guy who blows his hand off and then pay him 10 mill the next season. He won't play with fireworks again, but Tunsil is sure to be caught on video smoking a bong again.
The Giants have probably hurt themselves by not taking players with perceived red flags (that are not real bad character guys), than they have helped themselves by avoiding them. Bromley was a character guy wasnt he?
Bradshaw and Austin are two to come immediately to mind, as well as UDFA's like Will Hill.
But again - if you think Tunsil dropped just because of pot, you probably think Hill was cut just because of pot too. Can't really get through to that crowd for some strange reason.
And I love the idea that they didnt want to take a player who will be under investigation regarding payments from Ole Miss because Eli is from that school. That might have been the funniest/dumbest thing I have heard yet about this whole thing.
The Giants didnt take him because they never take anyone with any kind of perceived red flag. But they will stand by a guy who blows his hand off and then pay him 10 mill the next season. He won't play with fireworks again, but Tunsil is sure to be caught on video smoking a bong again.
The Giants have probably hurt themselves by not taking players with perceived red flags (that are not real bad character guys), than they have helped themselves by avoiding them. Bromley was a character guy wasnt he?
Glover -- you probably beat the Giants up over the Marvin Austin Pick -- didn't you?
And I love the idea that they didnt want to take a player who will be under investigation regarding payments from Ole Miss because Eli is from that school. That might have been the funniest/dumbest thing I have heard yet about this whole thing.
The Giants didnt take him because they never take anyone with any kind of perceived red flag. But they will stand by a guy who blows his hand off and then pay him 10 mill the next season. He won't play with fireworks again, but Tunsil is sure to be caught on video smoking a bong again.
The Giants have probably hurt themselves by not taking players with perceived red flags (that are not real bad character guys), than they have helped themselves by avoiding them. Bromley was a character guy wasnt he?
1. Bromley was not an investment of a first round pick. He was a 3rd rounder.
2. JPP is a proven talent who made the team better with one hand last season. The Giants have the money to spend...so they did.
3. Apple should be a good player for this team.
If Apple busts and Tunsil goes on to a great career then you can come back and crow. Apple was a good safe pick with a high upside in a position of need. Tunsil was a risky pick with a high upside in a position of need. Tunsil's wounds are self inflicted by his own lack of judgement.
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this is that Reese bashing troll that has had several handles including Gutless Puke. How many times do you have to get banned before you give up?
Stop lying. I don't have other threads. Stop it. You don't like my picks fine. Before the draft I had said Stanley, Bullard, Hoawrd, Burbrdige, Schobert and Tavon Young. Everything played differently. I just believe we had chance to get two real good bigs in rounds 1 and 2 and it would have covered us the following year.
Stop lying. How many handles do you have?
How about you stop lying? You registered an March and have posted in 2 threads.
Troll on Gutless Puke!
You're
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Tunsil's agent was out with the facts that this was a two-year old video and that his client had tested clean in all of the administered drug tests.
But there are quite a few other people who said that video is most likely from the past 6 months. Either way, it goes to a continued string of poor decision making. Leaving a traceable trail when asking for $$, having video doing things you shouldn't, having a domestic situation.
You add it all up, and it isn't just about pot, which seems to be the easy answer everyone wants. Hell, there are still a lot of people here who have the moronic stance that Will Hill was let go because of pot.
Correct. For the people who say "it's only marijuana", what about talking about illegal cash payments on the night of the draft? And he's going to pick up a complicated NFL offense right away?
To say this is about pot really ignores everything else at play.
His injury history on the other hand..........
The Giants didnt take him because they never take anyone with any kind of perceived red flag
Bradshaw and Austin are two to come immediately to mind, as well as UDFA's like Will Hill.
But again - if you think Tunsil dropped just because of pot, you probably think Hill was cut just because of pot too. Can't really get through to that crowd for some strange reason.
FMiC,
I hated the Austin pick from the get-go, so perhaps that makes my stance on Tunsil inconsistent as well as indefensible. Arguably, I think we can agree, that the value proposition was not as strong for the former as it was for the latter, but putting that aside:
As I recall Austin was barred for his senior year by a school not really know for its ethical approach to athletes and eligibility (the facts blur in my memory, but I think it's close to true).
With Tunsil: I blush at a good number of clearly stupid decisions and actions of mine in my late teens and early 20s, some made a number of years older than Tunsil's errors.
I'm inclined to agree with you that this is more than about pot, but I'm not sure that it's more than about being young, immature, thinking one is immortal and beyond being held responsible for thoughtless or even calculated actions. He evidently thought he was beyond reproach even as he made, what his camp would hope, what he now realizes were poor decisions.
Nothing is so sobering in life, at any point, as to be exposed, whether to family, work colleagues, or in excruciatingly public manner onstage at the NFL Draft, as having been arrogant and irresponsible.
But these will be unknowables for a year or two.
You had a first this year. Literally, there is breaking news about a prospect who already had character concerns come out minutes before the draft. I can't blame teams who thought it was bizarre and didn't have the time to dig deeper. Like I said, if this is just about the stupid actions of a kid and somebody knows 100% that's what it is, he probably gets picked by Baltimore. But you take what happened on draft day with the rumors he was going to fall based on character even prior to the video. add in the fact he's tied to a teammate on a night of questionable actions, his domestic dispute with his step dad, his injury history, the illegal benefits situation, plus the leaked text messages of trying to extort more money for a $300+ electric bill and you have a long list of things to check out.
If anything, I'm more pissed that his stupidity got the Ravens to pass on him, which means we probably lost out on Conklin.
I can't believe the number of posters who are acting like passing on Tunsil is criminal. It is defended very easily.