More than likely this year or next Giants will "crash-and-burn." Don't think Jerry has a clue. Here is how it should have broken out:
1--- OT -- Tunsil
2--- DE/T-- Jonathan Bullard
3--- CB Kendall Fuller
4-- WR Pharoah Cooper
5--- OLB Jatavis Brown
6--- FS Deandre Houston-Carson
Like, do you know the team you root for or not?
With Tunsil: I blush at a good number of clearly stupid decisions and actions of mine in my late teens and early 20s, some made a number of years older than Tunsil's errors.
If someone had paid you under the table would you have brought it up voluntarily on the night of the draft?
I don't get why Jack made the confession. He would have be smarter to keep it as a rumor. Some teams admitted they weren't sure until he gave his own medicals to the world.
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You guys are going to LOVE Shepard...honestly he is the one pick I wouldn't even negotiate giving up. You want to say tunsil or vh3 over apple fine but no way to either of your picks over shep. He fills an immediate need and will be our biggest Contributor of all rookies
I love the Shepard pick. It's an A pick. What would've made it an A+ pick, IMO, is if we took A'Shawn Robinson or Michael Thomas.
- I guess my question is why, with this many known flags, some of which you raise I had not known about, Tunsil remained like a rock at the top of the pundits' ratings (only relatively late dropping below the QBs). But that's beside the point: I acknowledge why the Giants passed, and it's as defensible as was their pick of Apple after Floyd and Conklin were gone, but I'm not sure it's a slam dunk either way.
I guess the real question is whether what seem to be a series of poor judgments by LT, albeit each of "arguably" minor gravity, should be aggregated into criminalizing his actions.
- njm, dumb, lack of smarts and judgment, clearly, and that is now known about him, but does it fundamentally alter the profile of a guy who needed a well deserved smack upside the head to say, "grow up, already"?
- Jon, that was actually what weighed most with me in the Giants' decision: but would there not in your judgment be some merit to consider moving EF to the right side, where not a few here believe is his best position? Quite obviously, Flowers is a football player with a lot of pride i his work, his results, otherwise he would not have insisted on playing at reduced effectiveness through the high ankle sprain. But if he were to excel on the right side, would leaving LT be such a negative if the Giants thought Tunsil was a more natural LT?
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In comment 12939900 BleedBlue said:
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You guys are going to LOVE Shepard...honestly he is the one pick I wouldn't even negotiate giving up. You want to say tunsil or vh3 over apple fine but no way to either of your picks over shep. He fills an immediate need and will be our biggest Contributor of all rookies
I love the Shepard pick. It's an A pick. What would've made it an A+ pick, IMO, is if we took A'Shawn Robinson or Michael Thomas.
Going with the Giants' team of evaluators over you. No offense?
HOW DARE YOU!
Round 3—Don’t know why you bring up his brother. Anyhow CB is a need and Fuller is among the fastest corners in the draft if healthy. He is supposed to be ready and imo too talented to pass up if he is healthy. He went in the 3rd round anyways. SO if he is ready he would have been real good value in 3rd round.
Round 4—I don’t understand why you are so concerned with Cooper’s height but not Shepard’s. Cooper is slightly taller and runs almost just as fast. The Giants could have gotten strong 4th round value here.
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Bullard - I think he's a 3-4 end, and I don't think he's a special talent, I could be wrong.
Fuller - I think he's overrated, again, I could be wrong. But he does have the medical flag and the Giants got a clean player in the 3rd with respects to medical and character.
Cooper - the thing is, Cooper ran a 4.63 at his Pro Day, you typically add about .05 to get his true combine speed, so that's the 4.7 range. Even if you stick with the 4.63 number apples to apples to Shepard, it's a significant difference. He also has smaller hands at only 9 1/8th", Shepard's is 9 3/4". He's not a leaper, his vert was only 31 inches. At the combine, that was close to last. Shepard's was 41 inches... that's an enormous difference, Shepard had the biggest leap at the combine. Cooper is a gamer, but so is Shepard, and Shepard gets a lot more separation. Across the board Shepard is better, by a wide margin. Cooper is a limited athlete who is slot only with no real deep speed, and he's going to struggle to separate. You bet on him because of his mentality and toughness, but not at the expense of getting a better, cleaner player like we did with Goodson.
Given that, and it seems the front office is locked into the same track, I just don't think they were really looking at LTs, especially after the gas mask chaos.
Let's see where we are in a year or two.
Add it all up and it suggests they're ok continuing on the value route to finding a RT upgrade with EF entrenched at LT, imv.
You had a first this year. Literally, there is breaking news about a prospect who already had character concerns come out minutes before the draft. I can't blame teams who thought it was bizarre and didn't have the time to dig deeper. Like I said, if this is just about the stupid actions of a kid and somebody knows 100% that's what it is, he probably gets picked by Baltimore. But you take what happened on draft day with the rumors he was going to fall based on character even prior to the video. add in the fact he's tied to a teammate on a night of questionable actions, his domestic dispute with his step dad, his injury history, the illegal benefits situation, plus the leaked text messages of trying to extort more money for a $300+ electric bill and you have a long list of things to check out.
If anything, I'm more pissed that his stupidity got the Ravens to pass on him, which means we probably lost out on Conklin.
I can't believe the number of posters who are acting like passing on Tunsil is criminal. It is defended very easily.
It doesn't make one iota difference if it is criminal or not criminal. This was a good opportunity to get him. Who is going to be the better player, Apple or Tunsil? I say Tunsil. Who can help us protect our star QB better- a good defense because of Apple's play or a better Oline because of Tunsil's play? Tunsil.
Anyhow the draft isn't about one player.
Next year where will we be if JPP leaves which by all accounts he will? Right now how confident are you in OO? What happens next year a the D-Line?
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I'm not saying one way or another how bad Tunsil's flags are. I'm defending against the criticism that not taking him is a colossal error.
You had a first this year. Literally, there is breaking news about a prospect who already had character concerns come out minutes before the draft. I can't blame teams who thought it was bizarre and didn't have the time to dig deeper. Like I said, if this is just about the stupid actions of a kid and somebody knows 100% that's what it is, he probably gets picked by Baltimore. But you take what happened on draft day with the rumors he was going to fall based on character even prior to the video. add in the fact he's tied to a teammate on a night of questionable actions, his domestic dispute with his step dad, his injury history, the illegal benefits situation, plus the leaked text messages of trying to extort more money for a $300+ electric bill and you have a long list of things to check out.
If anything, I'm more pissed that his stupidity got the Ravens to pass on him, which means we probably lost out on Conklin.
I can't believe the number of posters who are acting like passing on Tunsil is criminal. It is defended very easily.
It doesn't make one iota difference if it is criminal or not criminal. This was a good opportunity to get him. Who is going to be the better player, Apple or Tunsil? I say Tunsil. Who can help us protect our star QB better- a good defense because of Apple's play or a better Oline because of Tunsil's play? Tunsil.
Anyhow the draft isn't about one player.
Next year where will we be if JPP leaves which by all accounts he will? Right now how confident are you in OO? What happens next year a the D-Line?
By all accounts JPP will leave next year? Based on what...your imagination?
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In comment 12940725 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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I'm not saying one way or another how bad Tunsil's flags are. I'm defending against the criticism that not taking him is a colossal error.
You had a first this year. Literally, there is breaking news about a prospect who already had character concerns come out minutes before the draft. I can't blame teams who thought it was bizarre and didn't have the time to dig deeper. Like I said, if this is just about the stupid actions of a kid and somebody knows 100% that's what it is, he probably gets picked by Baltimore. But you take what happened on draft day with the rumors he was going to fall based on character even prior to the video. add in the fact he's tied to a teammate on a night of questionable actions, his domestic dispute with his step dad, his injury history, the illegal benefits situation, plus the leaked text messages of trying to extort more money for a $300+ electric bill and you have a long list of things to check out.
If anything, I'm more pissed that his stupidity got the Ravens to pass on him, which means we probably lost out on Conklin.
I can't believe the number of posters who are acting like passing on Tunsil is criminal. It is defended very easily.
It doesn't make one iota difference if it is criminal or not criminal. This was a good opportunity to get him. Who is going to be the better player, Apple or Tunsil? I say Tunsil. Who can help us protect our star QB better- a good defense because of Apple's play or a better Oline because of Tunsil's play? Tunsil.
Anyhow the draft isn't about one player.
Next year where will we be if JPP leaves which by all accounts he will? Right now how confident are you in OO? What happens next year a the D-Line?
By all accounts JPP will leave next year? Based on what...your imagination?
Common sense.
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In comment 12942127 giantstock said:
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In comment 12940725 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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I'm not saying one way or another how bad Tunsil's flags are. I'm defending against the criticism that not taking him is a colossal error.
You had a first this year. Literally, there is breaking news about a prospect who already had character concerns come out minutes before the draft. I can't blame teams who thought it was bizarre and didn't have the time to dig deeper. Like I said, if this is just about the stupid actions of a kid and somebody knows 100% that's what it is, he probably gets picked by Baltimore. But you take what happened on draft day with the rumors he was going to fall based on character even prior to the video. add in the fact he's tied to a teammate on a night of questionable actions, his domestic dispute with his step dad, his injury history, the illegal benefits situation, plus the leaked text messages of trying to extort more money for a $300+ electric bill and you have a long list of things to check out.
If anything, I'm more pissed that his stupidity got the Ravens to pass on him, which means we probably lost out on Conklin.
I can't believe the number of posters who are acting like passing on Tunsil is criminal. It is defended very easily.
It doesn't make one iota difference if it is criminal or not criminal. This was a good opportunity to get him. Who is going to be the better player, Apple or Tunsil? I say Tunsil. Who can help us protect our star QB better- a good defense because of Apple's play or a better Oline because of Tunsil's play? Tunsil.
Anyhow the draft isn't about one player.
Next year where will we be if JPP leaves which by all accounts he will? Right now how confident are you in OO? What happens next year a the D-Line?
By all accounts JPP will leave next year? Based on what...your imagination?
Common sense.
Great non answer
Basically you are talking out of your ass again
There are no signs either way
You have no idea what will happen nor does anyone else
Tunsil?
C'mon man.
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In comment 12942128 phillygiant said:
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In comment 12942127 giantstock said:
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In comment 12940725 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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I'm not saying one way or another how bad Tunsil's flags are. I'm defending against the criticism that not taking him is a colossal error.
You had a first this year. Literally, there is breaking news about a prospect who already had character concerns come out minutes before the draft. I can't blame teams who thought it was bizarre and didn't have the time to dig deeper. Like I said, if this is just about the stupid actions of a kid and somebody knows 100% that's what it is, he probably gets picked by Baltimore. But you take what happened on draft day with the rumors he was going to fall based on character even prior to the video. add in the fact he's tied to a teammate on a night of questionable actions, his domestic dispute with his step dad, his injury history, the illegal benefits situation, plus the leaked text messages of trying to extort more money for a $300+ electric bill and you have a long list of things to check out.
If anything, I'm more pissed that his stupidity got the Ravens to pass on him, which means we probably lost out on Conklin.
I can't believe the number of posters who are acting like passing on Tunsil is criminal. It is defended very easily.
It doesn't make one iota difference if it is criminal or not criminal. This was a good opportunity to get him. Who is going to be the better player, Apple or Tunsil? I say Tunsil. Who can help us protect our star QB better- a good defense because of Apple's play or a better Oline because of Tunsil's play? Tunsil.
Anyhow the draft isn't about one player.
Next year where will we be if JPP leaves which by all accounts he will? Right now how confident are you in OO? What happens next year a the D-Line?
By all accounts JPP will leave next year? Based on what...your imagination?
Common sense.
Great non answer
Basically you are talking out of your ass again
There are no signs either way
You have no idea what will happen nor does anyone else
Well, not sure that they can put a franchise tag on JPP next offseason... I'm a big believer that he will perform well. If he does, he will be looking for a big contract, one the Giants are likely not going to be inclined to give him, since they are already paying Vernon the richest deal in history for a DE, and will have OBJ's new contract looming. There is only so much you can do under the cap... unless JPP doesn't perform well this season, or is injured much of the year, it could lower his value, but I seriously think even in that case, another team will throw dollars at him that the Giants would not, to take a chance on his talent. Hopefully Owa has a great year, and I hope the Giants hit big on OL and DL in the 2017 draft!
Bullard in Round 2 is a meh pick. Boom or bust type. Sheppard is going to have the better career.
As far as Fuller goes they couldn't wait until Round 3 to draft a quality CB. Anyone can look back at the draft and say 'see we could have gotten 'X'. That's not how it works in real time.