Of course, the Giants don’t owe anybody any explanations (despite all the nay saying being heard from the press or us fans), but still, many of us wonder what they were thinking - picking Eli Apple with the 10th overall pick in the draft.
After watching Eli Apple’s 2015 “highlights” after the draft, I came away very depressed. I just seemed that any success he had was the result of an inordinate amount of holding and mugging (which is not going to fly in the NFL) ….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_Vzo_hwUUg
Which got me to thinking - “maybe he’s just doing that because his college coaches are willing to accept some of the consequences of the penalties because he’s such a good disrupter”. In some ways, his high school video really shows off his natural abilities a lot better (especially when he isn’t pressing the receiver at the L.O.S.). His most impressive play is where he catches a receiver at the one yard line and forces a fumble.
Eli Apple high school highlights ….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PJ2INwD9M0
Next, I looked at his NFL combine work-out. His natural ability is off the chart - speed, coordination, amazingly fluid turn-and-go hip motion, leaping ability. (You can hear him getting yelled at, a bit, because of technique, not because he’s not capable). I was very impressed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_ihKrFc3FU
Dave Te has provided BBI with an amazing analysis of Apple. Probably the most encouraging aspects of Apple’s play is that he’s very good at tracking the ball in the air and the speed and leaping ability to make up for mistakes
http://nfldraftreport.sportsblog.com/posts/16870661/the-nfl-draft-report-s--final-analysis--series---the-big-apple-welcomes-eli-apple-to-the-big-blue-family.html
I don’t know if he’ll ever come close to Richard Sherman, but he seems to have many of the same qualities - intelligence, strength, height and pure speed.
There’s lot to be impressed with in the following Sherman video. The most incredible thing that he does is how he “baits” receivers/QBs into thinking they’ve beaten him only to have him knock the ball away or intercept it
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/9/20/4747480/richard-sherman-nfl-darelle-revis-seahawks-cornerback
At 10 the top tier talent, by just about everyone's estimation of that grouping, was gone.
Yes, Tunsil "was there" but the giants can't really draft a guy whose Instagram account is going to be the centerpiece of an investigation into a college program with which your franchise qb's father is very closely associated.
Therefore, if you have Hargreaves as being strictly a zone cover guy at the next level, or you downgrade heavily for sub-par size, than it isn't inconceivable that Apple is the top cb on your board. Then it is is just about deciding which position group to spend your pick on as the 10th pick turned out to be the first pick taken solidly in the second level of talent. Traditionally that pick very often looks like a reach. Especially if there is someone there that has fallen or is a bit of a 'tweener(hargreaves)
Based on what I've read by Sy and Dave Te, I think this kid is gonna be money.
Imo quite simply the Giants saw more upside and potential over Hargreaves. Hargreaves maybe more nfl ready now, but Apple does have more upside, height, and speed. The fact that he is 20 years old and shows that much maturity is also a huge plus that teams really look for. Like you said yourself, you where pretty impressed what you saw from him at the combine. I'm not going to lie when I first saw him perform at the combine, I was very impressed as well and thought this guy is so natural and fluid?! Looked polished and confident, and i'm sure other teams as well as the Giants came out impressed by him and ranked him right there with Hargreaves.
His height makes him also more versatile, he can play inside or outside and match up against taller WR's. I can even see the Giants using him outside while Jenkins plays inside slot in certain matchups this year. Bottom line is they see more potential in him as being a possible shutdown corner, and they took the gamble..
Then after being angry I read Sy and Dave Te's reports. Instant calming effect. I also remember seeing Hargreaves get torched late in the year. Dave's analysis was staggeringly glowing.
The hands thing was OSU's instructions to their DBs. (remember MSU did the same thing with clutching and grabbing). It might take time to break him of the habit after 3 years at OSU. Lack of INTs - OSU's DB coach said in mam to man if you look at the QB you are beaten. So no breaking on the ball - just break up the pass.
So like any rookie, hope that he is 90% as good as his hype.
But he's the pick because the Giants got played by TN and Chi.
At 10 the top tier talent, by just about everyone's estimation of that grouping, was gone.
Yes, Tunsil "was there" but the giants can't really draft a guy whose Instagram account is going to be the centerpiece of an investigation into a college program with which your franchise qb's father is very closely associated.
Therefore, if you have Hargreaves as being strictly a zone cover guy at the next level, or you downgrade heavily for sub-par size, than it isn't inconceivable that Apple is the top cb on your board. Then it is is just about deciding which position group to spend your pick on as the 10th pick turned out to be the first pick taken solidly in the second level of talent. Traditionally that pick very often looks like a reach. Especially if there is someone there that has fallen or is a bit of a 'tweener(hargreaves)
Excellent point about Eli's ties to his old school
Hitdog new Apple was there and there was a poster who mocked Apple as a " Giant like " CB.
Apple has the size and speed, played at a high level of competition and is a passionate, clean, young football player with a ton of upside.
Plus Reese puts higher value on the CB position. It really all makes sense.
But he's the pick because the Giants got played by TN and Chi.
Except the Giants were never going to take Conklin at 10 if he was there. Floyd may have been as you look at the number of pass rushers they signed as UDFA, but Giants were not going to spend a Top 10 pick on someone they perceived as only a RT
Because beat reporters are never fed false information in order to get other teams to either 1) trade up for a player you never wanted and/or 2) trade back because they feel the Giants are not targeting their guy
So the Giants should have traded a 3rd or 4th rounder (or more if a bidding war took place) to get Conklin or Floyd even though they may have had Apple rated equally? That I would not have liked.
There's always that concern with guys that size, but frankly over the past two weeks it didn't seem like anyone was really in love with Hargraves. It's not like he was a Revis-type prospect. He wasn't.
Of course, after studying Apple's background, he came around 180 degrees and had a "duhhhh moment" and realized it should have been obvious that Eli was near the top of their board. And like so many other people that went off the rails and had meltdowns, he came around and couldn't be happier with the pick. A lot more teams had Eli high on their boards than is advertised and had we traded down (my favorite option), there is no guarantee we would have still had a shot at him. At least two other teams publically stated that he was on the top of their board including Tampa and Miami at 11 and 13, so had we traded down, we would never had gotten him.
I'm glad people are coming around and have taken a big breath and gotten beyond the shiny prizes driven by mob rule.
On the positive side, he seems to always be right by the receiver. Great speed and feet.
He was the BPA at a need position. That is how Jerry rolls. That's how we got Pugh at 19 and Flowers at 9.
The OP gives us a thoughtful review and this yogel jumps crazy....the OP didn't judge, he discussed and you come on and tell him how he should think. The OP comes off looking pretty good and you look like a pontificating jerk.
No, it's not about what they should have done. It's about what they shouldn't have done.
They should have not let the info on who they liked get out of the building. Yes, other teams can make educated guesses about who they might want, but this was being reported -- by guys like Raanan (and others) -- as: "INFO FROM GIANTS SOURCES" that the Giants coveted Floyd (and to a lesser extent Conklin) for several weeks leading up to the draft.
So much so that it was considered a fait accompli here at BBI and there were dozens of threads on Floyd as if he were inevitable.
This "info from Giants sources" was credible enough that EVEN IN TODAY'S post-draft stories, all the beat writers are still saying it was going to be Floyd or Conklin.
IMO, this info should have NEVER leaked out to the reporters to begin with. And had it not, the Giants might have gotten one of their two first choices. Instead they got Eli Apple.
Paraphasing McAdoo he said the Eli was their top rated "clean" player. Clean meaning no physical issues and / or off the field issues. McAdoo later stated that it is important for the Giants to obtain players who are "presentable and who will favorably represent the Giants in the community".
In listening to the interview it is clear that the Giants place enormous emphasis on the character of the players.
McAdoo also stated that the Giants stuck strictly to their board in their selections. The Giants selected based upon quality rather than need.
I know I'm in a smaller market here, but you rarely hear any chatter about who the Panthers are targeting that is being blared out to the public weeks ahead of teh draft. There's speculation for sure, but this year, for instance, there was no consensus of who they might select. A lot of people had them taking one of the Clemson DE's.
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So the Giants should have traded a 3rd or 4th rounder (or more if a bidding war took place) to get Conklin or Floyd even though they may have had Apple rated equally? That I would not have liked.
No, it's not about what they should have done. It's about what they shouldn't have done.
They should have not let the info on who they liked get out of the building. Yes, other teams can make educated guesses about who they might want, but this was being reported -- by guys like Raanan (and others) -- as: "INFO FROM GIANTS SOURCES" that the Giants coveted Floyd (and to a lesser extent Conklin) for several weeks leading up to the draft.
So much so that it was considered a fait accompli here at BBI and there were dozens of threads on Floyd as if he were inevitable.
This "info from Giants sources" was credible enough that EVEN IN TODAY'S post-draft stories, all the beat writers are still saying it was going to be Floyd or Conklin.
IMO, this info should have NEVER leaked out to the reporters to begin with. And had it not, the Giants might have gotten one of their two first choices. Instead they got Eli Apple.
I understand that reasoning. But who had Apple on their radar? If he was rated so high on the Giants board why did that not leak out. Did anyone hear the Giants discuss Apple? Or for that matter any of their picks? Maybe Shepard. IIRC most of the Floyd talk started when Reese visited. Not sure how that could be hidden. I think it is a little simplistic to think the Giants naively, or stupidly, leaked their 2 top choices to the media. People can believe what they want. The truth may never be known.
I know I'm in a smaller market here, but you rarely hear any chatter about who the Panthers are targeting that is being blared out to the public weeks ahead of teh draft. There's speculation for sure, but this year, for instance, there was no consensus of who they might select. A lot of people had them taking one of the Clemson DE's.
In fairness, when you're picking where the Panthers picked it's not as obvious who will be available.
It's true, the defense needs more help, but the Giants dumped "Mr. Not-Good-Enough", Rueben Randle, creating a big hole.
I just didn't see anybody in the CB position as a "top ten' candidate. The Giants, obviously were highly persuaded by their need for a third good CB, that it trumped picking Coleman. (They did manage to "hide in the weeds" and picked up the outstanding slot receiver from Oklahoma - Shephard.)
After watching a few more videos and reading what people are saying about Apple, I came away feeling a lot better about the pick.
I agree, Jon, and to some degree that's a concern of mine. He's GOT to stop holding and grabbing any time a ball is thrown in his area. He's also got to learn to look for the ball WHEN he's not grabbing. He is truly a wonderful athlete; now we have to see if he can become a top CB who actually proves deserving of, and receives, a 2nd contract from the Gmen.
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So the Giants should have traded a 3rd or 4th rounder (or more if a bidding war took place) to get Conklin or Floyd even though they may have had Apple rated equally? That I would not have liked.
No, it's not about what they should have done. It's about what they shouldn't have done.
They should have not let the info on who they liked get out of the building. Yes, other teams can make educated guesses about who they might want, but this was being reported -- by guys like Raanan (and others) -- as: "INFO FROM GIANTS SOURCES" that the Giants coveted Floyd (and to a lesser extent Conklin) for several weeks leading up to the draft.
So much so that it was considered a fait accompli here at BBI and there were dozens of threads on Floyd as if he were inevitable.
This "info from Giants sources" was credible enough that EVEN IN TODAY'S post-draft stories, all the beat writers are still saying it was going to be Floyd or Conklin.
IMO, this info should have NEVER leaked out to the reporters to begin with. And had it not, the Giants might have gotten one of their two first choices. Instead they got Eli Apple.
I understand that reasoning. But who had Apple on their radar? If he was rated so high on the Giants board why did that not leak out. Did anyone hear the Giants discuss Apple? Or for that matter any of their picks? Maybe Shepard. IIRC most of the Floyd talk started when Reese visited. Not sure how that could be hidden. I think it is a little simplistic to think the Giants naively, or stupidly, leaked their 2 top choices to the media. People can believe what they want. The truth may never be known.
because he was the safe fallback guy that would be there at 10 in a worst case scenario
Well...that's a new one.
What would you rather have?
Why should I be upset? I just think it is strange to accept a sportswriters opinion as gold.
Not that complicated.
Said you should be happy we didn't draft Floyd. Gave me a list of reason but mainly because he takes plays off.
He made me feel good. So there that.