and I hope he is a permanent fixture in our LB corps but I don't really see it with him. I see a good player but I don't see that explosion. You can get by if you have great instincts, tackling ability and the ability to defeat blocks. Sy said that he views him best as a WILL but from all the press releases they are saying they view him more as a MIKE. We will see.
Linebackers are a core component of special teams play
Both Unga and Herzlich seem to have the speed you want to be able to make tackles on Teams. Regardless of how sick you might be of Herzlich for whatever reason, there would be no reason to cut him if he actually provides value.
Is there any hope that Unga being an undrafted rookie actually improves and becomes a competent backup? With a years experience he should be better . Now Herz. is what he is and hopefully he can be replaced.
depending on how healthy everyone gets through camp, the additions of Robinson, Goodson, and the re-signing of Brinkley spell the end for Casillas and Unga.
Herzlich has a chance to survive if they keep 6 LB's. if they keep 7 (unlikely IMO) he has a good shot.
and I hope he is a permanent fixture in our LB corps but I don't really see it with him. I see a good player but I don't see that explosion. You can get by if you have great instincts, tackling ability and the ability to defeat blocks. Sy said that he views him best as a WILL but from all the press releases they are saying they view him more as a MIKE. We will see.
I read some comparisons to Antonio Pierce. I could be wrong but I never really saw Pierce as an explosive player either. There wasn't anything really physically, that stood out about him. He just always seemed to be in the right spot and was, generally speaking, a good tackler. He was just dependable and reliable and got the job done. I'm hopeful that Goodson can at least be that type of player.
are Kennard, Goodson and Robinson. Everything else is up in the air. Casillas, Thomas, Brinkley, Unga, Sheppard, Herzlich are likely competing for 2-3 spots.
Goodson will compete and it stands to reason he will push someone off the roster. Yes.
If Goodson is a WIL, Casillas is gone IMO.
JT Thomas is their best cover guy (which doesn't bode well) and then Goodson would be the backup and eventual starter there. Casillas would be third on the depth chart. If they keep 6 LB's Casillas is likely gone (in that scenario).
Casillas not a MIKE and doesn't fit as a SAM (like Herzlich).
that he is slow and small. I meant that he played that way. He looked lost in coverage for a guy whose strength is supposedly being fast, and he took some terrible angles in pursuit.
This was my fear with Floyd. A guy who is supposed to be fast, so people assume he's good in coverage, but his stats indicated he didn't make many plays on the ball.
Unga played like an undrafted guy, but he didn't look like a player you are going to coach up to fix his errors. It is really tough to get a 29 year old guy to learn how to best get to the ball carrier or receiving target.
is that he came on gang busters in pre-season and very the beginning of the season - but he seemed to get swallowed up as the season went on. Herz plays great special teams and is a confirmed backup and provides at least some use in both roles
I think Unga is first to go - then Herz
I wouldn't write Castillas off just yet - I want to see what he and Thomas bring this year.
RE: RE: I would guess Casillas isn't going anywhere
Goodson will compete and it stands to reason he will push someone off the roster. Yes.
If Goodson is a WIL, Casillas is gone IMO.
JT Thomas is their best cover guy (which doesn't bode well) and then Goodson would be the backup and eventual starter there. Casillas would be third on the depth chart. If they keep 6 LB's Casillas is likely gone (in that scenario).
Casillas not a MIKE and doesn't fit as a SAM (like Herzlich).
Herzlich run D is sort of underrated.
Kelvin Sheppard is a much better LB then Herzlich.
and I hope he is a permanent fixture in our LB corps but I don't really see it with him. I see a good player but I don't see that explosion. You can get by if you have great instincts, tackling ability and the ability to defeat blocks. Sy said that he views him best as a WILL but from all the press releases they are saying they view him more as a MIKE. We will see.
I read some comparisons to Antonio Pierce. I could be wrong but I never really saw Pierce as an explosive player either. There wasn't anything really physically, that stood out about him. He just always seemed to be in the right spot and was, generally speaking, a good tackler. He was just dependable and reliable and got the job done. I'm hopeful that Goodson can at least be that type of player.
Exactly. What made Pierce so good was his head. He knew exactly where to be, how to line everybody up, what plays were likely to be coming, etc. He is an exception not a rule though. I would love it if Goodson can be that Antonio Pierce for our defense.
RE: RE: RE: I would guess Casillas isn't going anywhere
Goodson will compete and it stands to reason he will push someone off the roster. Yes.
If Goodson is a WIL, Casillas is gone IMO.
JT Thomas is their best cover guy (which doesn't bode well) and then Goodson would be the backup and eventual starter there. Casillas would be third on the depth chart. If they keep 6 LB's Casillas is likely gone (in that scenario).
Casillas not a MIKE and doesn't fit as a SAM (like Herzlich).
Herzlich run D is sort of underrated.
Kelvin Sheppard is a much better LB then Herzlich.
I'm not sure Kelvin Sheppard is much better than anybody, but that's not a high bar you set.
If either Sheppard or Herzlich are starting at LB we're stuck in the same cesspool of shit at the position we've been in for years.
Goodson will compete and it stands to reason he will push someone off the roster. Yes.
If Goodson is a WIL, Casillas is gone IMO.
JT Thomas is their best cover guy (which doesn't bode well) and then Goodson would be the backup and eventual starter there. Casillas would be third on the depth chart. If they keep 6 LB's Casillas is likely gone (in that scenario).
Casillas not a MIKE and doesn't fit as a SAM (like Herzlich).
Herzlich run D is sort of underrated.
Kelvin Sheppard is a much better LB then Herzlich.
I'm not sure Kelvin Sheppard is much better than anybody, but that's not a high bar you set.
If either Sheppard or Herzlich are starting at LB we're stuck in the same cesspool of shit at the position we've been in for years.
LOL, one guy had 105 tackles last year and the other 30 tackles... Who's bar is set to high or low?
becoming a playmaker may be the single most important piece of this draft. We've been craving for a guy at LB that can be stout against the run, tackle any and everything, and cover from time to time. If he can become even just an average to above average LBer then his value compared to where he was picked would be through the roof.
was the top ST'er from a grade standpoint last year. Whether that's enough to keep him on the team, I don't know, but let's not make it seem like he's just a body out there.
will need depth at LB and Herz is a good special teamer, but I hope this spells the end of them seeing significant time.
If he cna make the starting lineup, I think Goodson will be a tackling machine inside the hash marks.
5 years in the league and he is a special teamer making 1 million dollars. Complete liability in the pass game, a target for offenses the times he was forced into play. Only on the Giants.
Brewer and David Brown. Guys who looked uncomfortable in pads...
I thought for awhile that H. would get better the further he got away from chemo. I think that's so, but not sure it's enough, but at least he'll hit someone if he gets the chance.
Herzlich is a better ST player. He's terrible when you ask him to go backward and cover but serviceable when moving forward or on occasion rushing the passer. Unga is currently the 4th best MLB on the roster. He's not fast enough to cover or strong/big enough to take on blockers.
I think either Thomas or Casillas becomes a cap casualty. Both have base salaries over $2 million and Goodson makes one of them expendable. James Morris is an after thought. Herzlich's main challenge for a roster spot is Kelvin Sheppard unless the Giants are good carrying 7.
FatMan in Charlotte : 9:30 am : link : reply
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5 years in the league and he is a special teamer making 1 million dollars.
That's actually cheap for being the team's top ST'er and a backup LB.
Fatman, I can't believe you can say that with a straight face....top ST'er? backup linebacker? He is neither....
He made a few plays against the run, but his coverage skills were a joke....If I was a QB, and I saw him on the field, I would go to his man/coverage area every time....
RE: RE: If Shephard and Robinson both make the team
is a good linebacker, but Sheppard is camp fodder.
He does nothing well, and seriously? Tackles to judge a player?
Herzlich had 50 total snaps last year. Sheppard started for the Dolphins. the only defense worse than the Giants.
Here is what PFF has to sat.
Yes 105 tackle LB indicates a guy that gets himself in position to make a lot of plays and I don't read that PFF crap. Sheppard > Herzlich and it's not close.
RE: RE: RE: If Shephard and Robinson both make the team
Brinkley is the best LB they have and you have him maybe replacing Robinson?
pj -- I don't know how strong my conviction is on this -- but I don't think Brinkley is any more than serviceable -- and Robinson has demonstrated superior MLB skills to Brinkley over his career -- the issue is his health -- I don't think you can keep 3 MLBs - one of them has to go -- the only way Goodson doesn't make it (imo) is if he's injured -- you also have Herz as a third Backup and he also plays OLB - so he's more versatile. Now if you are arguing that Brinkley can play OLB and is an upgrade over Herz -- that I'm willing to consider
is a good linebacker, but Sheppard is camp fodder.
He does nothing well, and seriously? Tackles to judge a player?
Bingo. How many of those tackles were within 8 yards of the LOS? A few years ago J. Williams was at the top of the tackle board leaders on this team, yet as I recall, many of his tackles were several yards down the field.
If he cna make the starting lineup, I think Goodson will be a tackling machine inside the hash marks.
Herzlich has a chance to survive if they keep 6 LB's. if they keep 7 (unlikely IMO) he has a good shot.
But he has a cool name and cool hair....
I read some comparisons to Antonio Pierce. I could be wrong but I never really saw Pierce as an explosive player either. There wasn't anything really physically, that stood out about him. He just always seemed to be in the right spot and was, generally speaking, a good tackler. He was just dependable and reliable and got the job done. I'm hopeful that Goodson can at least be that type of player.
in my opinion, one of them, at the very least, is gone
Goodson will compete and it stands to reason he will push someone off the roster. Yes.
But he has a cool name and cool hair....
6'1 240 isn't small, and one of his few positive attributes is is speed. He's not slow.
Goodson will compete and it stands to reason he will push someone off the roster. Yes.
If Goodson is a WIL, Casillas is gone IMO.
JT Thomas is their best cover guy (which doesn't bode well) and then Goodson would be the backup and eventual starter there. Casillas would be third on the depth chart. If they keep 6 LB's Casillas is likely gone (in that scenario).
Casillas not a MIKE and doesn't fit as a SAM (like Herzlich).
Herzlich run D is sort of underrated.
This was my fear with Floyd. A guy who is supposed to be fast, so people assume he's good in coverage, but his stats indicated he didn't make many plays on the ball.
Unga played like an undrafted guy, but he didn't look like a player you are going to coach up to fix his errors. It is really tough to get a 29 year old guy to learn how to best get to the ball carrier or receiving target.
I think Unga is first to go - then Herz
I wouldn't write Castillas off just yet - I want to see what he and Thomas bring this year.
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He's one of the better guys we have in coverage.
Goodson will compete and it stands to reason he will push someone off the roster. Yes.
If Goodson is a WIL, Casillas is gone IMO.
JT Thomas is their best cover guy (which doesn't bode well) and then Goodson would be the backup and eventual starter there. Casillas would be third on the depth chart. If they keep 6 LB's Casillas is likely gone (in that scenario).
Casillas not a MIKE and doesn't fit as a SAM (like Herzlich).
Herzlich run D is sort of underrated.
Kelvin Sheppard is a much better LB then Herzlich.
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and I hope he is a permanent fixture in our LB corps but I don't really see it with him. I see a good player but I don't see that explosion. You can get by if you have great instincts, tackling ability and the ability to defeat blocks. Sy said that he views him best as a WILL but from all the press releases they are saying they view him more as a MIKE. We will see.
I read some comparisons to Antonio Pierce. I could be wrong but I never really saw Pierce as an explosive player either. There wasn't anything really physically, that stood out about him. He just always seemed to be in the right spot and was, generally speaking, a good tackler. He was just dependable and reliable and got the job done. I'm hopeful that Goodson can at least be that type of player.
Exactly. What made Pierce so good was his head. He knew exactly where to be, how to line everybody up, what plays were likely to be coming, etc. He is an exception not a rule though. I would love it if Goodson can be that Antonio Pierce for our defense.
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In comment 12940157 aquidneck said:
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He's one of the better guys we have in coverage.
Goodson will compete and it stands to reason he will push someone off the roster. Yes.
If Goodson is a WIL, Casillas is gone IMO.
JT Thomas is their best cover guy (which doesn't bode well) and then Goodson would be the backup and eventual starter there. Casillas would be third on the depth chart. If they keep 6 LB's Casillas is likely gone (in that scenario).
Casillas not a MIKE and doesn't fit as a SAM (like Herzlich).
Herzlich run D is sort of underrated.
Kelvin Sheppard is a much better LB then Herzlich.
I'm not sure Kelvin Sheppard is much better than anybody, but that's not a high bar you set.
If either Sheppard or Herzlich are starting at LB we're stuck in the same cesspool of shit at the position we've been in for years.
I do not see 7 LB's kept unless the 7th is a pass rusher, which neither Herlich or Unga are.
Herzlich is a nice story, but not worth the spot. Unga right now is the 5th best MLB on the team - done.
he is slow as molasses and it frequently out of position
overrated ST player
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In comment 12940170 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 12940157 aquidneck said:
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He's one of the better guys we have in coverage.
Goodson will compete and it stands to reason he will push someone off the roster. Yes.
If Goodson is a WIL, Casillas is gone IMO.
JT Thomas is their best cover guy (which doesn't bode well) and then Goodson would be the backup and eventual starter there. Casillas would be third on the depth chart. If they keep 6 LB's Casillas is likely gone (in that scenario).
Casillas not a MIKE and doesn't fit as a SAM (like Herzlich).
Herzlich run D is sort of underrated.
Kelvin Sheppard is a much better LB then Herzlich.
I'm not sure Kelvin Sheppard is much better than anybody, but that's not a high bar you set.
If either Sheppard or Herzlich are starting at LB we're stuck in the same cesspool of shit at the position we've been in for years.
LOL, one guy had 105 tackles last year and the other 30 tackles... Who's bar is set to high or low?
Its obviously a big IF, but its a realistic IF.
Herzlich's size, physicality and special teams abilities give him a good shot though.
On specials, he has some value, but he is not a core essential.
An early sign that the McAdoo era is going to be better than the TC of the last 4 or 5 years is an early exit for MH.
He does nothing well, and seriously? Tackles to judge a player?
Herzlich had 50 total snaps last year. Sheppard started for the Dolphins. the only defense worse than the Giants.
Here is what PFF has to sat.
If he cna make the starting lineup, I think Goodson will be a tackling machine inside the hash marks.
5 years in the league and he is a special teamer making 1 million dollars. Complete liability in the pass game, a target for offenses the times he was forced into play. Only on the Giants.
I thought for awhile that H. would get better the further he got away from chemo. I think that's so, but not sure it's enough, but at least he'll hit someone if he gets the chance.
That's actually cheap for being the team's top ST'er and a backup LB.
Look, I wouldn't be averse to seeing Herz gone, all I'm saying is people shitting on him like he's just a body on ST are off the mark.
As long as there are no injuries.... both will be cut.
I think either Thomas or Casillas becomes a cap casualty. Both have base salaries over $2 million and Goodson makes one of them expendable. James Morris is an after thought. Herzlich's main challenge for a roster spot is Kelvin Sheppard unless the Giants are good carrying 7.
that's 4 WIL's and one SAM and 2 MIKEs, unless Goodson projects to SAM which I haven't heard (even from Sy).
unlikely.
Just my opinion, Casillas is cut before Herzlich same with Sheppard.
As long as there are no injuries.... both will be cut.
Baring injuries - I see 5 LBs hanging on:
Robinson, Goodson, Kennard, Thomas, Castillas
you need one more OLB to stick so that would rule out Unga and Herz can play OLB and plays the run well -- as well as plays special teams
my best guess is therefore:
Robinson, Goodson, Kennard, Thomas, Castillas, Herzlich
If Robinson gets injured in pre-season then Brinkley would replace him
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5 years in the league and he is a special teamer making 1 million dollars.
That's actually cheap for being the team's top ST'er and a backup LB.
Fatman, I can't believe you can say that with a straight face....top ST'er? backup linebacker? He is neither....
He made a few plays against the run, but his coverage skills were a joke....If I was a QB, and I saw him on the field, I would go to his man/coverage area every time....
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along with Brinkley, Kennard, Thomas, Casillas, and Goodson - thats 7 LBers.
As long as there are no injuries.... both will be cut.
Baring injuries - I see 5 LBs hanging on:
Robinson, Goodson, Kennard, Thomas, Castillas
you need one more OLB to stick so that would rule out Unga and Herz can play OLB and plays the run well -- as well as plays special teams
my best guess is therefore:
Robinson, Goodson, Kennard, Thomas, Castillas, Herzlich
If Robinson gets injured in pre-season then Brinkley would replace him
Brinkley is the best LB they have and you have him maybe replacing Robinson?
He does nothing well, and seriously? Tackles to judge a player?
Herzlich had 50 total snaps last year. Sheppard started for the Dolphins. the only defense worse than the Giants.
Here is what PFF has to sat.
Yes 105 tackle LB indicates a guy that gets himself in position to make a lot of plays and I don't read that PFF crap. Sheppard > Herzlich and it's not close.
Brinkley is the best LB they have and you have him maybe replacing Robinson?
pj -- I don't know how strong my conviction is on this -- but I don't think Brinkley is any more than serviceable -- and Robinson has demonstrated superior MLB skills to Brinkley over his career -- the issue is his health -- I don't think you can keep 3 MLBs - one of them has to go -- the only way Goodson doesn't make it (imo) is if he's injured -- you also have Herz as a third Backup and he also plays OLB - so he's more versatile. Now if you are arguing that Brinkley can play OLB and is an upgrade over Herz -- that I'm willing to consider
He does nothing well, and seriously? Tackles to judge a player?
Bingo. How many of those tackles were within 8 yards of the LOS? A few years ago J. Williams was at the top of the tackle board leaders on this team, yet as I recall, many of his tackles were several yards down the field.
SAM MIKE WIL
Kennard Robinson/Brinkley JT Thomas/Casillas (cut the other)
Herzlich Robinson/Brinkley Goodson (eventual starter)
Casillas or Thomas, one of them makes it. the other is cut. Whoever doesn't start out of Robinson and Brinkley the other is backup.
And Sheppard, Unga, Morris, and the other of Casillas/Thomas are fighting it out in case they keep 7 LB's.
I don't think this is a strong position (as usual) so there really isn't much difference between them.
Problem is not a lot of strong side linebackers. You can't just say put player x at SAM. Not everyone is interchangeable like that.
MIKE - Robinson/Brinkley/Goodson (one has to go)
WILL - Thomas/Castillas