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So, who else thought Dallas f$#@!% up??

BlueGuy : 5/2/2016 12:31 pm
I'm looking at their draft and I don't see the logic here.

They could have traded back for Elliot, IMO. No facts here, I'm just thinking that #4 was way too early for Zeke. Great player, don't get me wrong. But Dallas has way too many other holes, especially on defense.

And on that note, they passed on Jalen Ramsey to take a running back when they have Morris, Mcfadden and Turbin. Wow. I'm really not getting the logic there.

Then they take Jaylon Smith in the 2nd who definitely isn't playing this year and might not be ready next year. Too many ifs to take Smith in Round 2. And Sean Lee just had another procedure so wouldn't you want to get younger and healthier??

No Gregory and probably no Lawrence would dictate them taking a DE early, right? Nope, they took a DT in the 3rd. WTF? Another headscratcher.

Then they go DE with Tapper who I think can contribute. They were fortunate he fell so far.

THEN they go QB with Prescott. That I damn sure don't get. Prescott's main knock is that he isn't super accurate. Dallas' passing game is predicated on accuracy. So you went with a version of Cam Lite? Have at it. Romo doesn't survive the season with a peanut brittle collar bone. Bet on it.

Then a CB, a safety, a RB (who I like) and a real project with the TE who has never really played football at all. I know we have similar picks in Perkins and Adams, but they seem head and shoulders above the Boys' picks.

Is Jerruh back behind the wheel? I hope so.
Agree except  
ryanmkeane : 5/2/2016 12:38 pm : link
the Jaylon Smith pick. If he returns to relatively full health, they might have gotten the best player in the draft in the 2nd round. Taking the long term view with Smith - it was a risky move but I didn't hate it. Well...I did hate it.
If Jaylon returns to form  
est1986 : 5/2/2016 12:40 pm : link
They killed it.
I think the Eagles did  
I Love Clams Casino : 5/2/2016 12:42 pm : link
I mean you look at what the Eagles did.

They had Sam Bradford, mid-career.

They sold the farm to get Wentz, and now Bradford will not rest until he's traded.

Now how much better is their team today than it was before the draft?

I get the long term notion of it, but maaaaaaan....they better hope this guy is not just good, but great.
I'm not going to kill them for staying put  
Section331 : 5/2/2016 12:44 pm : link
to draft a player they really wanted. Maybe they could have traded back, but you can't be certain Elliott would have been there. Then they lose out on Ramsey AND Elliott.

I have no insight into what team would have drafted Jaylon Smith, but I wonder if Dallas went a little high. The value of their draft, obviously, hinges on Smith getting healthy and being the same player he was pre-injury, but one has to wonder if he still would have been there in round 3.

Other than those picks, I don't see a whole lot there.
You're allowed to curse on the internet  
Giants in 07 : 5/2/2016 12:46 pm : link
Nobody will tell on you

I thought Dallas had a nice draft. Obviously contingent upon how Smith returns, but Elliott is going to be a real problem behind that line.

Was 4 too early for Elliott? Maybe. But they got their guy. Similar to the Giants and Apple at 10.
when Jaylon does  
Rory : 5/2/2016 12:47 pm : link
get back on the field its going to be quite an adjustment to what he's used to.

Recovering form an injury is one things but doing that against tougher faster stronger competition is entirely much more difficult
RE: Agree except  
Randy in CT : 5/2/2016 12:48 pm : link
In comment 12940914 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
the Jaylon Smith pick. If he returns to relatively full health, they might have gotten the best player in the draft in the 2nd round. Taking the long term view with Smith - it was a risky move but I didn't hate it. Well...I did hate it.
Jaylon Smith and "drop foot" have been mentioned in the same sentence. So yeah, any of the health risks out there that return to form would be great yet conversely, you can probably bet that JS won't.

Very risky at a time when they needed solid, healthy bodies in there.
I don't think drafting Jaylon Smith was taking the long term view  
jcn56 : 5/2/2016 12:48 pm : link
Long term applies to guys who are raw, might need time to develop. Smith's an outright risk - he might never play football. He won't play this year at all, and it's anyone's guess going beyond that.

Risk/reward - but for a team with an aging, brittle QB you wonder if the second round pick not contributing next year makes a whole lot of sense.
Turbin isn't on the Cowboys anymore.  
Mr. Bungle : 5/2/2016 12:50 pm : link
Do you mean Dunbar?
In Peter King's MMQB today  
scouser : 5/2/2016 12:50 pm : link
He states that the Cowboys tried to drop down but no one would trade with him. Similarly, he tried to get the QB Denver were after and wouldn't meet the asking price. Denver did.
My issue with Dallas draft  
Mike in NY : 5/2/2016 12:50 pm : link
Besides Smith, who could be the next Marcus Lattimore, the Elliott pick makes no sense. Don't get me wrong, I believe Elliott is the top RB in this draft by far, but with the OL they set up they could have drafted Kenneth Dixon in Round 4 and received the production they needed. Dallas draft top to bottom stinks of Jerry Jones trying to make a splash rather than trusting his scouts
Question  
scouser : 5/2/2016 12:52 pm : link
Didn't Corey Webster suffer from "drop foot"? the season(2004) before the Giants drafted him second?
I'll just reiterate..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/2/2016 12:53 pm : link
that Nicks has nerve damage and went from being an elite player to below average very quickly.
It hinges on Jaylon returning to his old form ...  
Beer Man : 5/2/2016 12:53 pm : link
If he returns to his old self, they would have walked away with two of the top ten players in the draft; which is not too shabby. I think the combination of Elliot with the Dallas O-line maybe become something special for the Cowboys. Having the return of the three headed monster should relieve some of the pressure on Romo, and reduce the number of hits he takes.
for all the dumb things  
Enzo : 5/2/2016 12:54 pm : link
Dallas, Philly, and Washington do every year they seemingly have little trouble beating us the last few years. God help us if they ever get smart.
I think they effed up  
giants#1 : 5/2/2016 12:58 pm : link
Their window is contingent on whatever Romo has left and based on his age/recent injuries that's likely closer to 1-2 years than 3-4+. So with that in mind and their 2 starting DEs suspended and other gaping holes on D, it's hard to like (as a Dallas fan) a draft that took a RB (luxury pick) and an injured LB with their top 2 picks. Especially if Smith is out all of 2016.

They are clearly planning to "help" the D by dominating the TOP as much as possible like they did with Murray in 2014, but that plan goes up in smoke if Romo misses time.
As a football fan I don't like Smith  
Mason : 5/2/2016 1:00 pm : link
Cowboys aren't in a position to pick luxury picks. Smith return is still a huge maybe and you don't know what you are getting. So if you are going to take a chance take a chance on Jack. He can step on the field now.

Where is the pass rush guy that you need and know you want have at the beginning of the season? And to be honest Sterling Shepard makes as much sense for the Cowboys as he does for the Giants. Their TE, Rico Gathers!!! Come on. And for those who still had doubts about certain drafting strategy over the years.


Quote:
#Cowboys couldn't make it to Rico Gathers' Pro Day at #Saints facility. They sent TE coach Mike Pope to work him out privately. Loved him.
5:31 PM - 30 Apr 2016
Ezekiel looks like a stud RB  
mfsd : 5/2/2016 1:14 pm : link
But I'm glad they didn't draft Ramsey
Elliot behind that OL  
Johnny5 : 5/2/2016 1:33 pm : link
Concerns me. Yes.
Elliot will be huge for them  
shabu : 5/2/2016 1:35 pm : link
Elliot will be huge for them, remember dallas in 2014 with Murray they will be a problem.
IF, IF, IF, IF!  
Big Blue '56 : 5/2/2016 1:43 pm : link
You don't draft a player if there's a strong chance he never plays a down. Certainly NOT in the second round when you have lots of needs. And, even if he does make it back, I'd be surprised if he's anywhere near the player splooged upon. You don't fuck around with possible/probable nerve damage.
I agree with OP  
allstarjim : 5/2/2016 1:45 pm : link
They took a RB with the highest draft pick they've had since 1991. Shortest positional shelf-life in the NFL, RB. Most people had Dixon and Booker as top 5 RB's in this class, me included, and they come off in the compensatory portion of the 4th round... guys that are going to be weapons out of the backfield early.

So you could've had Ramsey in the first and Myles Jack (a much better risk than Smith) in the second, both would've helped you this season, and come back and taken a RB in the 4th round that would start for you, and be very good behind that O-line.

They absolutely screwed the pooch in this draft, to Jacksonville Jaguars benefit.

The Jaguars are going to contend for a Super Bowl soon. Ramsey and Jack, added to a defense that just signed Malik Jackson, Tashaun Gipson, and Prince Amukamara. A defense that is getting the best pass rusher from last year's draft back in Dante Fowler Jr, throw in Paul Posluszny, Jonathan Cyprien... you added Sheldon Day in the draft to team with Roy Miller and Jackson at DT... and they draft three other pass rushers to compete, just needing one to pan out. And I don't think they are done, they still have a lot of money to spend.

And with the weapons they have on offense, all they needed was a defense, and boy did they impact the defense with their first 4 picks in this draft.
I think  
Miamijints : 5/2/2016 1:49 pm : link
they had a very Dallas Cowboy type draft, incredibly short-sighted and splashy. They drafted like if they were the Carolina Panthers and just needed a few players to get back in the Super bowl. I can never understand why everyone in the media or otherwise treat the Cowboys roster like it is stacked with immense talent... it is not. 3 headed monster?? Triplets are back?? This is not the 90's, you need a lot more than that. Zeke is a luxury pick, Smith is a luxury pick that not only might not ever reclaim his potential but by the time he is healthy and can be counted on, Romo will have retired and Smith will be looking at FA! I think today even without an above average addition to the right side of our line we are a more talented team. We dwarf them offensively and defensively imo.
Supposedly Balt. Tried To Trade Up To The 'Boys Spot...  
Jim in Tampa : 5/2/2016 1:50 pm : link
But they refused to tell Dallas which player they (Balt.) were going to take, so Dallas stayed put and picked their guy. It was speculated that Balt was going to take Elliott...so maybe the 'Boys couldn't have traded down.
.  
Anakim : 5/2/2016 1:51 pm : link
Um...  
allstarjim : 5/2/2016 1:52 pm : link
I'll take the third from the left?
Dallas  
stretch234 : 5/2/2016 2:06 pm : link
Last year McFadden avg 4.6 on 239 rushes and caught 40 passes, much without Romo

Is Elliott going to give you better at the expense of Ramsey or a QB - debatable

Smith is a major question. You only have him for 4 years on a contract and now lost 1 and there is great debate of him coming back at all let alone the player he was pre injury.



Jerry clearly wanted Lynch and made it know which  
Giants2012 : 5/2/2016 2:10 pm : link
I'm sure does wonders for the confidence of Dak Prescott.

RE: Jerry clearly wanted Lynch and made it know which  
Anakim : 5/2/2016 2:12 pm : link
In comment 12941211 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
I'm sure does wonders for the confidence of Dak Prescott.


Eh. I think he'll be fine. I mean the Cowboys also wanted Manziel over Zack Martin but Martin has been fine.
I actually think they did very well for themselves.  
barens : 5/2/2016 4:34 pm : link
Smith was a big risk, and I'm the exact opposite of an expert on injuries, but picking Elliott makes them very dangerous on offense. If Dez is healthy and Romo can stay upright as well, they are going to be hard to stop. The Two DL they picked are good fits for their defense, undersized and fast.
me  
chris r : 5/2/2016 4:36 pm : link
I understand Elliot to extend Romo's career but Smith is the opposite - his best days may be when Romo is retired. Doesn't make sense to me.
Dallas  
geemanfan : 5/2/2016 4:57 pm : link
Can get away with doing stupid things in the draft because the GM is never getting fired. I thought 4 was way to high for a running back and wouldn't have drafted Smith until day 3.
I give them credit for thinking outside the box a little bit  
djm : 5/2/2016 5:14 pm : link
and I have long said that a great RB is worth a high pick in the draft. But I think they were nuts to pass on Ramsey for Elliot.

Elliot at 10-15 is one thing. Elliot at 4 when an all time talent like Ramsey is there and your defense is awful? That's risky. And they just signed Alfred Morris.

Smith in round 2...we'll see...I hate to root against him but he's a Cowboy now . Fuck him.
I can't get  
Amtoft : 5/2/2016 5:45 pm : link
The passing on Ramsey. I think Elliott is amazing and will be help from day 1, but... you take Elliott a luxury if there isn't a stud like Ramsey on the board! Be honest... if you add Elliott to their team they get a little better than what they had at RB. If you add Ramsey you get a lot better at CB!
Maybe they tried to trade back, but got no  
Gussi41 : 5/2/2016 5:54 pm : link
good offers. Don't think you can trade back just for the sake of trading back. You have to get value. Second, and this is my opinion. I'm taking Elliot 9x out of 10x if i had to choose between the two. Again my humble opinion.
Highest draft pick they've had since '91  
allstarjim : 5/2/2016 6:03 pm : link
and used it on a position with the shortest shelf life.

4 of the last 15 or so RB's taken in the top dozen picks justified their draft position. There have been many can't miss RB's that either missed or were ineffectual because of the high rate of injury to RB's.

Finally, go back and read Sy's scouting report on Ramsey. If you've watched Ramsey, he does things that are eye popping.

This was a huge blunder on Dallas' part, and I enjoy that.
RE: I can't get  
barens : 5/2/2016 6:40 pm : link
In comment 12941854 Amtoft said:
Quote:
The passing on Ramsey. I think Elliott is amazing and will be help from day 1, but... you take Elliott a luxury if there isn't a stud like Ramsey on the board! Be honest... if you add Elliott to their team they get a little better than what they had at RB. If you add Ramsey you get a lot better at CB!


If We're being honest, Elliott scares me more than Ramsey. Ramsey is going to take a while to develop, and I don't think teams are fully confident yet as to whether he's a safety of CB. Elliott I believe will come in day 1 and have a big impact in every facet of the game.
I give them credit.  
compton : 5/2/2016 7:09 pm : link
They have a talented team that can get them deep into the playoffs providing Romo is healthy. With the addition of Elliott, they potentially have one of the most formidable offense in the NFC maybe even the NFL. I like the pick. They probably feel that they can compete with any team so why not take a chance on Jaylon Smith.
The one piece of imformation  
fanatic II : 5/2/2016 7:39 pm : link
that most posters are missing, is the doctor who performed the surgery on Smith is the Dallas doctor.

When asked his opinion, he told the team, in his view the knee was going to be good in the future.

Smith is actually ahead of schedule on his recovery. The nerve tendon has grown 1 inch since the surgery and needs to grow another 5 inches. The tendon grows at a rate of about 1 inch a month, so by October he should be ready for participating in workouts. He will not play this year, even though he has vowed that he will.

Next year will determine if the Dallas doctor was correct in his assessment of Smith.

Till then Dallas has selected their first pick in the 2017 draft, Jaylon Smith.
Just because something grows an inch  
djm : 5/2/2016 7:53 pm : link
Doesn't mean it's gonna grow another 5 inches....

Um... Never mind.
I agree with the OP  
PatersonPlank : 5/2/2016 9:20 pm : link
To spend a 2nd round pick on a guy who will not play this year, who you are never sure what leverage will play at again, and who has never played a down in the NFL, is crazy. Pathetic risk. Then add in the 4th a QB who will likely never make it, and may not even be a backup, is stupid.
RE: The one piece of imformation  
Patrick77 : 5/2/2016 10:03 pm : link
In comment 12942032 fanatic II said:
Quote:
that most posters are missing, is the doctor who performed the surgery on Smith is the Dallas doctor.

When asked his opinion, he told the team, in his view the knee was going to be good in the future.

Smith is actually ahead of schedule on his recovery. The nerve tendon has grown 1 inch since the surgery and needs to grow another 5 inches. The tendon grows at a rate of about 1 inch a month, so by October he should be ready for participating in workouts. He will not play this year, even though he has vowed that he will.

Next year will determine if the Dallas doctor was correct in his assessment of Smith.

Till then Dallas has selected their first pick in the 2017 draft, Jaylon Smith.


I was waiting for someone to say this. Their drafting him high makes me think they know something others don't, or at least they think they know better than other teams.
Smith is a huge gamble.  
LauderdaleMatty : 5/2/2016 10:40 pm : link
Their D is suspect at LB big time. S and CB are thin. Scans rock is their best? Gregory to me even when he comes back is a situational guy. It's like they are preying Smith comes back and totally relying on Marinelli to make chicken salad out of chicken shit again.

On O WR depth thinner than the Giants by a lot. It's really Dez and a bunch of guys easily deemed average at best. Whitten may be a sure fire HOFer but his back ups aren't much better than the Giants. He's not going to last forever . I think Elliot is a going to be very good to great behind that line but Romo is going to get hurt. Then they are fucked.

Their draft was like they are a 12-4 team with no holes. I think they fucked up big.
Only time will tell BUT  
Vanzetti : 5/2/2016 10:46 pm : link
I would be a lot more leery as a Giants fan if they had taken Jalen Ramsey and Noah Spence or Henry Hunter
It's bad enough drafting a player who had a torn ACL in college  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 5/2/2016 11:43 pm : link
and came back to play well, like the Giants did with Kenny Phillips (although I didn't think it was a mistake at the time), but this guy hasn't even successfully rehabbed from the first tear.

And then there's this:

"Anterior cruciate ligament reconstruction (ACLR) surgery is a common knee injury procedure, but the overall incidence rate of having to go through it again within 24 months is 6 times greater than someone who has never had an ACL tear, according to researchers presenting their work today at the American Orthopaedic Society for Sports Medicine's (AOSSM) Annual Meeting in Chicago, IL."

Probably a lot of us were secretly hoping that the Giants would gamble on Smith or Jack, but it would have been a mistake.
Eagles caused  
Torn Tendon : 5/3/2016 12:09 am : link
further disruption of their organization. But the Bradford mess is temporary and will at most last this season, after which it is easier to get out of his contract.

It will take a few years for them to correct the damage Chip did. It's a huge gamble with all they spent on Wentz. But from what I've rad, next year is going to be and even worse year for QBs.
RE: The one piece of imformation  
Mike in NY : 5/3/2016 5:25 am : link
In comment 12942032 fanatic II said:
Quote:
that most posters are missing, is the doctor who performed the surgery on Smith is the Dallas doctor.

When asked his opinion, he told the team, in his view the knee was going to be good in the future.

Smith is actually ahead of schedule on his recovery. The nerve tendon has grown 1 inch since the surgery and needs to grow another 5 inches. The tendon grows at a rate of about 1 inch a month, so by October he should be ready for participating in workouts. He will not play this year, even though he has vowed that he will.

Next year will determine if the Dallas doctor was correct in his assessment of Smith.

Till then Dallas has selected their first pick in the 2017 draft, Jaylon Smith.


The surgery was performed in early January, it is now early May. That means if it has grown only 1 inch, he has another 20 months before it grows the rest of the way assuming same pace of growth. Even if it does grow back, which is a big if, there is no guarantee he is the same player he was before the injury. Look what happened to Marcus Lattimore if you want a recent example. In the meantime, go back to Dallas and continue hoping Tony Romo can win a playoff game without the benefit of the officials.
I'd like to add medical opinions  
LauderdaleMatty : 5/3/2016 7:46 am : link
Are educated guess. Maybe a good guess but pretending that this doctors endorsement is something they knew and no one else did is silly. Other teams knew. Maybe Smith would have gone 4 spots later. No one knows. It was a huge risk regardless.
I don't know if they f'd up  
Scyber : 5/3/2016 10:00 am : link
but I still think Ramsey was the better pick. I know Elliot will be a good RB, but behind that line they could get good production from anyone. Their RB corp is improved, but I think their DB core would have been improved significantly more with Ramsey. The true benefit of Elliot will be in a few years when the Oline gets broken up, but by that time Romo may be gone.

As for Smith, well once again Romo's window is closing so I don't get picking a player that won't contribute at all for the first year in the 2nd round. If he returns to form then I guess it will be worth it, but that is a big IF.

I think their biggest issue is that they didn't make a play for a top QB. Its not often you are that close to the top of the draft. I realize Romo is the starter, but he hasn't exactly shown durability and he is very cuttable after 2017.
Elliott  
bc4life : 5/3/2016 11:43 am : link
makes a lot of sense - trade back, that's a big risk because I suspect other teams were looking at him. And, behind one of the best OL's in the league - get back to a dominant running game, which helps the passing game, including Romo's health.

Smith - nerve damage talk is troubling but they apparently have medical info that made them comfortable with the pick. But, they get nothing from him this year.

Could have had the QB from Memphis - that might have been their biggest gamble.
I dunno about Jaylon  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/3/2016 12:33 pm : link
but Elliot is going to be nightmare for the rest of the NFC East.
It is all about incremental gain though...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/3/2016 12:36 pm : link
How much incremental production will Elliott provide over McFadden, especially with a solid OL?

Ramsey would theoretically provide a much larger incremental upside. That's the main point here.

McFadden had a career year in 2015. If Elliott matches that, he won't really be adding anything they didn't have.
FMIC  
bc4life : 5/3/2016 1:45 pm : link
They're different types of backs - McFadden - big back who can kill you with speed if he gets a crease and some clean space. Elliott probably better at making people miss, has speed, and some power. Makes it tougher to game plan for two starter quality (at a minimum) backs with different running styles. Can be used interchangeably to keep the legs fresh and put in together - less predictable which plays are coming.
RE: FMIC  
Amtoft : 5/3/2016 7:11 pm : link
In comment 12943081 bc4life said:
Quote:
They're different types of backs - McFadden - big back who can kill you with speed if he gets a crease and some clean space. Elliott probably better at making people miss, has speed, and some power. Makes it tougher to game plan for two starter quality (at a minimum) backs with different running styles. Can be used interchangeably to keep the legs fresh and put in together - less predictable which plays are coming.


Think of it this way... Lets say both come out and be the best they could be... Would you want Dallas to have Patrick Peterson or Adrian Peterson. While a better RB makes them a little better than what they had last year, a top CB makes them much better at that position than last year.
Their D is a mess.  
LauderdaleMatty : 5/3/2016 8:13 pm : link
Their QB is a mess physically. Not worried about then long term. Long road to get to a SB IMO this year.
If the 'Boys had Demarcus Ware, Greg Hardy and Sean Lee  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 5/3/2016 8:33 pm : link
on that defense, you couldn't blame the other NFC East teams for fearing them. But all they have is Sean Lee, and he's having trouble staying on the field.
Moreover  
allstarjim : 5/3/2016 9:47 pm : link
It's not just the incremental gain of Elliott and the existing RBs on their roster, vs the incremental gain of Ramsey vs the corners/FS on their roster, it's also about how much better Elliott is than the RBs that were taken later in the draft.

Basically, Elliott has to be a hall of famer to justify this pick. If you could've gotten Ramsey, and say, Devontae Booker in the 4th round (which they could've), and say Elliott has a 1600 yard rushing season, and Booker (or Dixon or Williams, or say... Paul Perkins?) goes on to rush for even a 1400 yard season, and Ramsey is a shut down corner for the Jags, then you made a mistake.

Elliott has to far and away exceed the RB field, because the other RBs in this draft were mostly taken in the 4th round and later. And there were good talents there. And people kind of knew the RB's would drop as a position group, save Elliott and Henry.

And whoever says Ramsey is some kind of project is incorrect. Ramsey is pro ready right now. He might have a few rookie struggles, but he's the best DB on that team right now, to include Tashaun Gipson, and I'm being serious. When the Jags drafted Ramsey, it was like they were drafting Charles Woodson. Honestly, I don't remember a better DB coming out of the draft... as a prospect, you may have to go back to Deion Sanders... and Ramsey is a better tackler.

Elliott might MIGHT help out your team more this year because of the situation with Romo. But, he won't be a better player, not this year, not for his career, and the team would've been better off both this season and long term getting Ramsey and a mid-round RB (instead of the immortal Dak Prescott).

Them drafting Elliott is an enormous mistake. And just remember how dominating Reggie Bush was supposed to be and how he was going to put the Saints over the top.
Agree  
Thegratefulhead : 5/4/2016 11:33 am : link
DAllas was ninth in total rushing last year with just under 2k yds and 5th in average at 4.6 yds per attempt. this was without Romo and the box stacked against the run. With ROmo healthy it would ver reasonable to expect better than that. So Elliot is a minor upgrade. With the Romo clock ticking, Ramsey and Jack would have been way better both would have made impact this year, very happy Jerry is in that room.
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