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NFT: Softball video

blueblood'11 : 5/3/2016 8:03 am
Saw this on YouTube. McKinney girls softball vs. Wylie in Texas. If you type in McKinney vs. Wylie girls softball it will come up. Not sure how to add it as a link. Guess I need a tutorial.

It's the bottom of the last inning. Two outs and bases are loaded. Wylie is at bat and losing 6-4. It's the district championship game. Ground ball is hit to short. She tosses the ball to second baseman who clearly beats the runner to the bag. If you pause it several times as the ball is on its way to the second basemen, you have to really look close and hard because the ball is a bit difficult to see, it appears to beat the runner as well. It was bang bang but I thought the runner was out as well.

Mckinney goes into a wild celebration thinking they game is over. The Wylie coaches realize the umpire did not call the runner out at second and three runners scurry home giving Wylie the win and the championship.

Not that it matters for anything other then the girls who had their hearts crushed by a dubious call. But If anyone is interested take look at the video and tell me what you think. Just thought it was something a bit offbeat to take a look at and get some opinions on it.
Here ya go  
Gman11 : 5/3/2016 8:10 am : link
.
Da link - ( New Window )
Look at the umpire  
Gman11 : 5/3/2016 8:13 am : link
situated to the left of second base. He signals out. He raises his hand and makes an out gesture. There is no way that he signals safe. This isn't like football where if there is no whistle you keep playing. The ump has to signal out or safe, not just stand there like a dope.

He signals out. This is crazy.
no he signaled  
mdthedream : 5/3/2016 8:17 am : link
save but its a sucky call.
that's a safe call at 2nd base  
theold5j : 5/3/2016 8:17 am : link
the umpire raises both arms to signal safe
The ump clearly calls the runner safe  
Keith : 5/3/2016 8:18 am : link
but it looks like a ridiculous call. The girl looked out by 2 feet and even the runner sliding into second knew it. Then the girl throws the ball home to nobody which led to the final run. Terrible call by the ump.
I think the 2Bmen  
I Love Clams Casino : 5/3/2016 8:19 am : link
straddled the bag but didn't touch it...obviously hard to tell from that video, but the ump had the angle....his arms go up to signal safe.

Not sure I see the issue
The catcher who was celebrating could have just covered  
Keith : 5/3/2016 8:21 am : link
home too, but she had a massive brainfart and looked lost. They had a chance to stop the last run at home but she was lost in the middle. Sucks, but they'll all learn a lesson from this, especially the ones playing at the next level.
Stupid defense  
Giants2012 : 5/3/2016 8:21 am : link
Two went for the ball behind home plate and neither covered. Meanwhile, the rest of the team just watched.
I don't watch baseball any more  
Gman11 : 5/3/2016 8:21 am : link
but since when is raising your arms a safe call? To me, the safe call has always been crossing your arms (like an incomplete pass call) or holding your arms to the side (like you're coming in for a landing).
He did do that,  
Keith : 5/3/2016 8:23 am : link
it's just hard to see because of the angle. The only way that's not an awful call is if the 2nd baseman is off the bag, which we clearly can't see from this camera angle. I'd love to hear the ump explain why he called her safe.
RE: I don't watch baseball any more  
I Love Clams Casino : 5/3/2016 8:27 am : link
In comment 12942372 Gman11 said:
Quote:
but since when is raising your arms a safe call? To me, the safe call has always been crossing your arms (like an incomplete pass call) or holding your arms to the side (like you're coming in for a landing).


a fist punch is "out" or a thumb over the shoulder....one hand is involved....

with "safe", both arms in the same movement outstretched away from the body, no matter how high.

whatever the movement was in this video, it certainly, without a doubt on Gods green earth, wasn't "out"
RE: He did do that,  
madgiantscow009 : 5/3/2016 8:32 am : link
In comment 12942375 Keith said:
Quote:
it's just hard to see because of the angle. The only way that's not an awful call is if the 2nd baseman is off the bag, which we clearly can't see from this camera angle. I'd love to hear the ump explain why he called her safe.


I can't see how you can tell.
The catch  
madgiantscow009 : 5/3/2016 8:38 am : link


could be a tie, I can't really see the base.

I knows it's hard to see  
blueblood'11 : 5/3/2016 8:38 am : link
But the ump wasn't exactly on top of the play either. He was more in the hole at short and so for him to be able to tell whether she was on the bag or not I think might be hard to tell. The second basemen was definitely there way before the runner. And as Keith posted the runner thought she was out too. To me it looked lke the ump flipped a coin and heads she's out tail she's safe. The coin came up tails.
You can see the base in the start of the video  
Keith : 5/3/2016 8:41 am : link
as the runner is standing on it. If you follow that spot, the runner looks out easily, we just can't see her feet.
RE: I knows it's hard to see  
madgiantscow009 : 5/3/2016 8:42 am : link
In comment 12942415 blueblood'11 said:
Quote:
But the ump wasn't exactly on top of the play either. He was more in the hole at short and so for him to be able to tell whether she was on the bag or not I think might be hard to tell. The second basemen was definitely there way before the runner. And as Keith posted the runner thought she was out too. To me it looked lke the ump flipped a coin and heads she's out tail she's safe. The coin came up tails.


I still don't see how she was there way before the runner. The girl at 2nd could also be reacting to the reaction of the other team, so to say she knew she was out is just a guess.
I think you're reaching.  
Keith : 5/3/2016 8:46 am : link
As a runner, you know. If she was safe or thought she was, she would have reacted completely differently. She clearly got beat by the ball and clearly thought she was out. I'd guess(it's still just a guess based on the angle), that the ump blew the call and was magnified by the players not being in that moment and finishing big the game.
RE: I think you're reaching.  
madgiantscow009 : 5/3/2016 8:48 am : link
In comment 12942431 Keith said:
Quote:
As a runner, you know. If she was safe or thought she was, she would have reacted completely differently. She clearly got beat by the ball and clearly thought she was out. I'd guess(it's still just a guess based on the angle), that the ump blew the call and was magnified by the players not being in that moment and finishing big the game.


definitely not "clearly" either way. The base is also 15" wide. Not enough evidence to overturn the call, plus the other team had every opportunity to get the other outs.
Here's how I know she was out  
blueblood'11 : 5/3/2016 8:51 am : link
Watch closely as the runner slides. Prior to that look at the ball as the second basemen catches it. After she catches the runner is still into her slice. She then pops up after she hits the bag. It's that slight separation that exists between the catch and as she is sliding right before she hits the base and pops. She has to be out or she would have popped before the catch was being made. It also validates that the shortstop was on the bag because the runner hit right at that same spot the shortstop fielded the throw.
Add to that  
blueblood'11 : 5/3/2016 8:59 am : link
The second baseman as she catches the ball is already celebrating as the runner is still on the ground right before before she pops up. It's a split second but I think it's there to see. Plus, the runner can't pop up unless she hits the bag. It think that alone cements it for me.
OMG  
Giants2012 : 5/3/2016 8:59 am : link
The ump called safe and the defense stopped playing. End of story.

One thing is obvious  
Keith : 5/3/2016 9:00 am : link
Every single person on that steel saw the girl was out. That tells me all I need to know.
RE: One thing is obvious  
Giants2012 : 5/3/2016 9:14 am : link
In comment 12942458 Keith said:
Quote:
Every single person on that steel saw the girl was out. That tells me all I need to know.


Then you're like the team that stopped playing. Learn the game. Had this been a regular season game this fiasco likely wouldn't have happened. The team stopped playing. You have to keep your head. Did anybody look at the umpire in the frame besides the one fella in the stands extending his arms? Nobody reacted to the ump. Nobody.
Giants  
blueblood'11 : 5/3/2016 9:30 am : link
You make a valid point. But you see shit lke that happen atthe pro level too. It was premature of the team to celebrate the way they did but I think it was a clear indication that the runner was probably clearly out and the ump blew it. As a result the team celebrated what they thought was a slam dunk out end of game but the ump had other ideas.
RE: Giants  
Giants2012 : 5/3/2016 10:12 am : link
In comment 12942518 blueblood'11 said:
Quote:
You make a valid point. But you see shit lke that happen atthe pro level too. It was premature of the team to celebrate the way they did but I think it was a clear indication that the runner was probably clearly out and the ump blew it. As a result the team celebrated what they thought was a slam dunk out end of game but the ump had other ideas.


The ump had other ideas? He made a call. It was a close play. We can't tell if the 2nd baseman was off the bag. Nobody watched the umpire. I coached 11/12 ry olds for 11 years. You watch the ump. Last play of a championship, play to 1st base and my team didn't jump for joy until the ump makes the call. A spark can cause a forest fire. If it's in your favor, take advantage and if it's not, keep your head and put out the spark.

That team not only stopped playing but was lost on how to cover home plate. Two girls went after the ball and nobody covered home. The players just watched. They weren't celebrating, they just watched. That's not the ump, it's the players. It's a choke.
Out at second  
Cruzin : 5/3/2016 10:17 am : link

Ump blew the call

Team blew the game

Life lesson hopefully learned
To me, it's really as simple as that.  
Keith : 5/3/2016 10:24 am : link
Ump blew it, girls compounded the mistake, hopefully they learn a lesson.
Giants  
blueblood'11 : 5/3/2016 10:26 am : link
Again I agree. I coached too. But sometimes the unthinkable happens and that you can't coach. I was watching MLB the other night and I can't recall the game but there was a play where the runnners got all fouled up because of what appeared to be a clear cut circumstance and the umpires call was not very demonstrative and it lead to a double play. Sometimes the pros get caught up in the action too. I just think it was fairly clear on the video the fielder, the throw and the ball beat the runner and the girls reacted to the second basemans jump for joy thinking she beat the runner. But you are without a doubt correct. Until that out sign is given its not a sure thing.
This is 2016..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/3/2016 10:29 am : link
- Ump blew the game
- Girls blew the aftermath
- Parents sue to overturn the loss
- Opposing parents sue to invalidate the previous ruling
- Story gets featured on Dateline, 20/20 and Unsolved Mysteries
- Kim Khardashian throws out the first pitch next time the two teams play
Giants  
blueblood'11 : 5/3/2016 10:33 am : link
To say the umpire had other ideas I guess was the wrong phrase to use but you know what I mean. His eyes were telling him she was safe when most everyone else's eyes were telling them she was out and then that led to the shit hitting the fan. Hard lesson to learn.
RE: Giants  
Giants2012 : 5/3/2016 10:35 am : link
In comment 12942643 blueblood'11 said:
Quote:
Again I agree. I coached too. But sometimes the unthinkable happens and that you can't coach. .


I'm just amazed some just blame the ump. A player on the mound grabs the ball and throws the ball to home plate with nobody there rather than just run to home plate so nobody else scores. Then, she just stands there. One player retrieves the ball and the catcher, who was aware enough to grab her mitt charges towards home plate. Rather than stop at home plate for the toss she runs right past home plate. So two players are behind home plate, one is standing on the mound and majority are just watching.

What a mess.
RE: This is 2016..  
Cruzin : 5/3/2016 10:37 am : link
In comment 12942651 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
- Ump blew the game
- Girls blew the aftermath
- Parents sue to overturn the loss
- Opposing parents sue to invalidate the previous ruling
- Story gets featured on Dateline, 20/20 and Unsolved Mysteries
- Kim Khardashian throws out the first pitch next time the two teams play


You forgot the second baseman suing the umpire for emotional distress after she got trashed on Facebook for celebrating early.
RE: This is 2016..  
Giants2012 : 5/3/2016 10:40 am : link
In comment 12942651 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
- Ump blew the game
- Girls blew the aftermath
- Parents sue to overturn the loss
- Opposing parents sue to invalidate the previous ruling
- Story gets featured on Dateline, 20/20 and Unsolved Mysteries
- Kim Khardashian throws out the first pitch next time the two teams play


Spot on except a few shrinks pass out free samples of Prozac, fill up their schedule with distraught ballplayers and the insurance pays for it.
Correction, the left fielder was the only player  
Giants2012 : 5/3/2016 10:43 am : link
who watched the ump. Watch the left fielder.
Giants  
blueblood'11 : 5/3/2016 10:44 am : link
Look, it was bedlam that turned into a nightmare. You can't coach what happened on that field. Yeah the girls blew it but first they assumed the game was over and most of them were starting towards the center of the field to celebrate. I think half of them probably weren't aware of what the hell was going on in the first place. Why are they still running when the game is over. In there mind they're they just won a championship and now they have to process what is occurring when they don't even know why it's occuring.
Pretty crazy series of events  
illmatic : 5/3/2016 11:08 am : link
She looked out at second but it's hard to tell from that angle in a youtube video. Then the ump gives a call that doesn't look very emphatic. But his arms seem to go straight out to the sides to signal safe. Why the defense wasn't watching for that, I don't know. You have to assume a bad call could happen on a close play.

Then the left fielder is the only one paying attention. She runs to cover third and another fielder throws the ball home with nobody covering it, so the left fielder runs all the way to the backstop to get the ball. But she can't even tag the runner going home out because the catcher is blocking her path, causing her to go around the catcher and she's barely late in getting to the runner at home. Looks like she might have been able to get her if the catcher wasn't just standing there. Just wacky.
If her foot is on the base when she catches the ball,  
Beezer : 5/3/2016 11:35 am : link
THAT seems to beat the slide, but it's impossible to tell from that video exactly where the base is.

And yeah ...  
Beezer : 5/3/2016 11:36 am : link
good, bad or otherwise, that ump clearly calls the runner safe at second.
This is why  
fireitup77 : 5/3/2016 12:24 pm : link
you don't go for the lead runner in softball. The base runner gets to leave as the pitch leaves the pitchers hand. She has a running head start. The shortstop has to go to first in that situation.
RE: RE: This is 2016..  
Matt M. : 5/3/2016 2:25 pm : link
In comment 12942675 Cruzin said:
Quote:
In comment 12942651 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


- Ump blew the game
- Girls blew the aftermath
- Parents sue to overturn the loss
- Opposing parents sue to invalidate the previous ruling
- Story gets featured on Dateline, 20/20 and Unsolved Mysteries
- Kim Khardashian throws out the first pitch next time the two teams play



You forgot the second baseman suing the umpire for emotional distress after she got trashed on Facebook for celebrating early.
Thank you FatMan. there aren't enough of your good old posts like this anymore. You nailed this.
I don't know how anyone can say whether the runner was clearly  
Matt M. : 5/3/2016 2:30 pm : link
safe or out. You can't see the bag (you can only guess where it is), the quality of the video is grainy, etc. There are a couple of things that are clear. The umpire called the runner safe and one guy in the stands is yelling, "He called her safe!" over and over. There is an older man that comes into the right of the frame clearly confused, but it is not clear which team he is rooting for. Even watching the LF doesn't really clear anything up immediately.

The ump may or may not have blown the call. You can't tell. Regardless, the team in the field blew the game by allowing all 3 baserunners to score. They put Chuck Knoblauch to shame. The C/P had the worst brain fart by both going for the ball and neither covering the plate. Then even when the ball is retrieved, they didn't go after the runner with any sense of urgency.
Matt M  
blueblood'11 : 5/3/2016 3:12 pm : link
I think if you pause it and take it as close to frame by frame as you can it is clear the ball beats the runner to the bag. The question is where was the bag. When the runner hits the bag and pops up it is pretty certain that that is where the second baseman fielded the shortstops throw. To me that Indicates she was probably on the bag when she took the throw.

Like I said before there was so much confusion that ensued I don't think most of the McKinney girls first, knew what was going on. And secondly, when they started to figure it out it was too late and even then most of them still looked confused as to what was happening.

Last thing from me  
blueblood'11 : 5/3/2016 5:13 pm : link
I went on my computer to look at a bigger image. Then I used my mouse to click frame by frame rather then pausing the video as much as possible to see what actually happened. I then used a magnifying glass to further enlarge the image. What I found was that this play wasn't nearly as close at it would appear.

For one thing both of the runners shins and feet were tucked behind here hamstrings as she slide. They didn't come forward until she went into her slideand did not come forward immediately as she was sliding. Once she extended her legs to touch the bag the second baseman had already caught the ball.

Secondly, as the runner engaged the bag she was right on top of where the fielder was as she was holding her hands up in celebration before she left the bag.

Third, the umpire clearly hesitates and doesn't immediatley make the call as the fielder starts her celebration. I know I know, play to the whistle, the last second, the final out call. The kids blew it but that umpire really blew it. Plus he was in very bad position to make that call.
If you had to magnify it that much  
Giants2012 : 5/3/2016 5:19 pm : link
it is close.

An instant replay in football doesn't appear close if magnified. The kids blew it not the ump.
No  
blueblood'11 : 5/3/2016 5:31 pm : link
The video is so small it doesn't show how close it was or wasn't. It wasn't that close. Try it yourself. I'm sure you'll find the same result. Yes the kids blew it but the ump did not have a good moment there either.
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