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Owamagbe Odighizuwa has become a very important wild card...

M.S. : 5/3/2016 11:05 pm
... for the Giants in 2017. By my count we have a total of two serious pass rushing threats on our team at defensive end and zero from the OLB position.

That's simply not enough.

Can O.O. provide a third legitimate threat?

Our team's success may well depend upon the answer to this question.
What about 2016?  
Big Blue '56 : 5/3/2016 11:10 pm : link
.
Kennard to me is just as important  
mofti : 5/3/2016 11:11 pm : link
He had 5 sacks his rookie season and showed ability to cover Tight ends, such as Clay against the bills. His health this year is just as important to us.
Questions about O2 are twofold...  
Torrag : 5/3/2016 11:12 pm : link
...first off can he stay healthy. An area he has struggled with going back to UCLA(as Kennard did at USC).

Second can he impact on the field at the NFL level. Anyones guess on this one as he redshirted his rookie season on IR.

If he isn't a contributor as a rotational DE it's going to hurt us. If he can make his presence felt we're pretty solid at the position.
RE: What about 2016?  
Boy Cord : 5/3/2016 11:14 pm : link
In comment 12943996 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
.


M.S. is strictly talking about the Super Bowl run.
Not that I disagree with your  
chopperhatch : 5/3/2016 11:16 pm : link
Premise about O². Mainly because health was and is the albatross with him. He came out as not having many "moves." But his ability to over power blockers is still there. Hopefully, he can stay healthy enough to practice, learn new moves and become a nice rotational piece.

As far as pass rushers outside of Vernon and JPP, Hankins can rush from the inside and the added beef of Harrison will open up more blitzing lanes for our lbs. I also think Collins will be utilized more as a blitzer with our secondary additions. Kennard is nice as a pass rusher. I honestly think we might be OK in this regard.
Good point  
AP in Halfmoon : 5/3/2016 11:17 pm : link
Let's hope hes healthy and effective
RE: Questions about O2 are twofold...  
chopperhatch : 5/3/2016 11:23 pm : link
In comment 12943998 Torrag said:
Quote:
...first off can he stay healthy. An area he has struggled with going back to UCLA(as Kennard did at USC).

Second can he impact on the field at the NFL level. Anyones guess on this one as he redshirted his rookie season on IR.

If he isn't a contributor as a rotational DE it's going to hurt us. If he can make his presence felt we're pretty solid at the position.


I honestly think he might be really good as an interior guy on 3rd down. Strong enough to go up against guards, his moves are "enough" in there to slip into the backfield and make a play. JPP, Diggy, Hank-dawg/Brom-dawg, Vernon with Kennard, Robinson and Collins threatening blitzes. Could be a tough defense. All of a sudden I like our depth on the back end with Thompson and maybe Jackson patrolling CF.
Pass Rush a problem  
giantstock : 5/3/2016 11:36 pm : link
I fear OO will be a bust. If that happens, and JPP goes next year, we're going o be chasing our tail with a crappy no-pass rush defense. I don't think Hankins and Snacks are answers for pass rush or consistently opening up lanes.

Should have drafted a pass rusher this draft.

With that said- if OO comes through and with the DB's and offensive skill we picked up, maybe we can be something this year and next. OP is right OO is crucial.
One of the tweets I saw out of last weeks mini-camp  
Phil in LA : 5/3/2016 11:50 pm : link
was that Owa looked "quick."
Don't forget  
allstarjim : 5/3/2016 11:50 pm : link
The roster isn't set, and the Giants still have money to spend. There are still cuts looming. And although you don't expect a lot of good players to shake loose after June 1st, there are some that do for financial reasons. At this point the Giants will be looking at depth guys, with the possible exception of a bigger expenditure for a guard or OT.

Also, Kerry Wynn shouldn't be entirely overlooked and Stansly Maponga has a chance to make the team. I'm not saying they are world beaters but you never know who is going to step up.
There are still guys out there...  
allstarjim : 5/3/2016 11:58 pm : link
Mike Devito is a name the Giants could be interested in as a veteran depth signing. Jason Jones has always fit the Giants athletic profile. I don't know if they will go for any big-ish names like that, but I don't think they are done adding at the defensive end position.
You guys give up on players  
chopperhatch : 5/4/2016 3:43 am : link
Too early. Odigizhua (?) Was projected by some (notably KWALL, lol) as a first round pick to be considered at 9 where we picked. While I didn't think he was in that realm, he is still athletically interesting and had the college tape to justify us taking him. For me, it's only health. I'm actually excited to see what he can do with a year under his belt.
RE: You guys give up on players  
Modus Operandi : 5/4/2016 4:16 am : link
In comment 12944063 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
Too early. Odigizhua (?) Was projected by some (notably KWALL, lol) as a first round pick to be considered at 9 where we picked. While I didn't think he was in that realm, he is still athletically interesting and had the college tape to justify us taking him. For me, it's only health. I'm actually excited to see what he can do with a year under his belt.


For one thing, "It's only health," is a bit misleading for a guy that missed significant time at UCLA following two hip surgeries to repaid fraying in the hip. Then he gets hurt in his first training camp. Not an ideal start to his pro career.

That's without even getting into the knocks of his game - which is to say, he has zero pass rush apart from a bull rush. He's pretty much Ogbah with health concerns.

I wouldn't have picked him. Think if you're going to take a shot on a guy with concerna, whether said concerns are on or off the field, he'd better have a damp high ceiling.

Just don't see that with OO. I know I'm in the minority here. Hope I'm wrong.
he is  
chris r : 5/4/2016 5:31 am : link
the Giants have won on the DL with depth in the past, not just a talented starting 4. They need a reserve to step up.
The same can be said for Bromley right now.  
robbieballs2003 : 5/4/2016 5:49 am : link
I think our safeties can help in this aspect too.
Maponga and Nix  
Shadow : 5/4/2016 6:08 am : link
may be wildcards in this.
Wild card?????  
ZogZerg : 5/4/2016 7:02 am : link
You guys crack me up. A high 3rd round pick that many say should have been picked higher in the draft is expected to be a STARTER and produce in the NFL. There is nothing wild about him.
Zog  
joeinpa : 5/4/2016 8:20 am : link
My sentiments exactly
NO  
Glover : 5/4/2016 8:26 am : link
He won't. He will be hurt again. Cant be counting on someone who hasn't shown much of anything. Wasted money on JPP, spent big money on Vernon, let Ayers go to the Bucs.
Signed Jenkins to big money, take the 3rd best CB instead of the 2nd best, who also happens to be a work in progress.
The Giants still have serious issues on defense.
Too many holes to fix in one offseason.
RE: NO  
x meadowlander : 5/4/2016 8:34 am : link
In comment 12944133 Glover said:
Quote:
Too many holes to fix in one offseason.
I'm not a big fan of absolutes.

Every single year, the NFL has one or two teams dramatically turn around - to me, the Giants are poised to do exactly that.

Last year's offense was certainly capable, and will almost certainly be stronger with the new additions.

Defense is staffed to be much stronger than last year as well - love the focus on DB during the offseason.

It all comes down to health, and yes - O² is a key element moving forward. I expect big things from him this season.
RE: NO  
Klaatu : 5/4/2016 8:44 am : link
In comment 12944133 Glover said:
Quote:
He won't. He will be hurt again. Cant be counting on someone who hasn't shown much of anything. Wasted money on JPP, spent big money on Vernon, let Ayers go to the Bucs.
Signed Jenkins to big money, take the 3rd best CB instead of the 2nd best, who also happens to be a work in progress.
The Giants still have serious issues on defense.
Too many holes to fix in one offseason.


Wasted money on JPP? It's a one year deal. I'm sure the Giants are anxious to see how he performs one year after the incident and subsequent surgeries. I know I am.

Sure they spent big money on Vernon. He was the best two-way DE on the market. Would you prefer that they'd re-signed Ayers? Not me.
RE: RE: NO  
UConn4523 : 5/4/2016 8:48 am : link
In comment 12944155 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 12944133 Glover said:


Quote:


He won't. He will be hurt again. Cant be counting on someone who hasn't shown much of anything. Wasted money on JPP, spent big money on Vernon, let Ayers go to the Bucs.
Signed Jenkins to big money, take the 3rd best CB instead of the 2nd best, who also happens to be a work in progress.
The Giants still have serious issues on defense.
Too many holes to fix in one offseason.



Wasted money on JPP? It's a one year deal. I'm sure the Giants are anxious to see how he performs one year after the incident and subsequent surgeries. I know I am.

Sure they spent big money on Vernon. He was the best two-way DE on the market. Would you prefer that they'd re-signed Ayers? Not me.


Haha, Robert Ayers, the JAG that got away...
coughlin a factor too  
msh : 5/4/2016 8:52 am : link
he always wanted to red shirt his rookies and they had to show him alot in practice before he gave them significant game time. we will see if macadoo maybe uses these rookies earlier than tom did ,its not a knock on coughlin just an observation that the team might blood these guys sooner now than they did previously as tom was more old school and valued more experience while macadoo seams more focused on athletic ability and getting younger
Odi has to stay healthy  
Jay on the Island : 5/4/2016 9:05 am : link
and contribute this year. He is now the #3 DE and Wynn did not build on his rookie year. After JPP and Vernon there is a severe lack of depth if Odi doesn't produce. Hopefully Okwara or Rose beat out Wynn and can add something to the pass rush.
RE: NO  
Klaatu : 5/4/2016 9:16 am : link
In comment 12944133 Glover said:
Quote:
He won't. He will be hurt again. Cant be counting on someone who hasn't shown much of anything. Wasted money on JPP, spent big money on Vernon, let Ayers go to the Bucs.
Signed Jenkins to big money, take the 3rd best CB instead of the 2nd best, who also happens to be a work in progress.
The Giants still have serious issues on defense.
Too many holes to fix in one offseason.


Sure, they signed Jenkins to big money...and said good-bye to Prince Amukamara. Jenkins has played in 60 out of a possible 64 games, as opposed to 55 out of a possible 80 for Amukamara. It's no wonder that Jenkins has more INTs and PDefs in four years than Amukamara had in five. So what, exactly, is your beef?

As for Apple vs. (I'll assume) Hargreaves, clearly the Giants took the kid who was taller, faster, and has a lot more of the proverbial "upside." Hargreaves may struggle less as a rookie, but the draft isn't just about this year, and Apple my turn out to be the better pro in the long run. That's what the Giants are banking on.

Yes, the Giants still have issues on defense, but the issues you're concerned with lack any serious foundation, in my opinion.
With the amount...  
Strip-Sack : 5/4/2016 9:23 am : link
of injured players on the Giants last year, you can say every single one of them is a wild card this year....Berhe, Jackson, Thompson, Kennard...all wild cards.
Wildcard? He's supposed to have an impact  
Giants2012 : 5/4/2016 9:23 am : link
Third round draft choices aren't supposed to be wild cards. DE's take a few years to develop and he was certainly injured as a rookie. I wouldn't call him a wildcard.
RE: Wild card?????  
Hades07 : 5/4/2016 9:37 am : link
In comment 12944087 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
You guys crack me up. A high 3rd round pick that many say should have been picked higher in the draft is expected to be a STARTER and produce in the NFL. There is nothing wild about him.
you obviously don't pay attention to the success rate of 3rd round picks league wide.
I'm not sure that OO is actually that "injury prone"  
bigbluescot : 5/4/2016 10:05 am : link
He had the hip injuries in 2013 causing him to miss his 3rd season but he played in 10 games (6 starts) in his first season forcing his way into the field as a true freshman, all 14 the second and all 13 in 2014. On the face of it he seemed pretty reliable before and after the hip injury.

Was he injured all last season?  
aquidneck : 5/4/2016 10:11 am : link
I remember he played in a few games especially on ST, but don't remember him earning much playing time on defense or making much of an impact at all when he was in there...

On one of the worst defenses in team history.

Young guy with upside still. Hoping for the best, but can't count on a major contribution.
RE: Was he injured all last season?  
Jay on the Island : 5/4/2016 10:23 am : link
In comment 12944302 aquidneck said:
Quote:
I remember he played in a few games especially on ST, but don't remember him earning much playing time on defense or making much of an impact at all when he was in there...

On one of the worst defenses in team history.

Young guy with upside still. Hoping for the best, but can't count on a major contribution.

He was on IR with the return designation. He was out most of the year.
Let me know when he gets on the field  
averagejoe : 5/4/2016 11:28 am : link
and stays on the field. The guys that can't stay out of the trainers room need to be cut.

It used to be you had to produce on the field to get the money. Now they get the money and never play.
Owa's upside  
area junc : 5/4/2016 12:38 pm : link
is a Justin Tuck-type DE. He's not quite the athlete Tuck was, not quite as big, but that's the vision with Owa
there were a handful of us detractors prior to the draft that year  
idiotsavant : 5/4/2016 12:53 pm : link
and some seemingly better DE prospects on the boards.

That said, the advent of Hank + Snacks may make a kid like this more effective, we shall see, as well, more healing time on a hip thing.

Ditto Wynn, he may have a ceiling or may have done some specialized training over the off season to surprise us...Bromley as well.

Hank/Snacks/JPP/Vernon present an opportunity for these on the bubble types that they ought to take advantage of.

RE: RE: NO  
giantstock : 5/5/2016 8:34 am : link
In comment 12944199 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 12944133 Glover said:


Quote:


He won't. He will be hurt again. Cant be counting on someone who hasn't shown much of anything. Wasted money on JPP, spent big money on Vernon, let Ayers go to the Bucs.
Signed Jenkins to big money, take the 3rd best CB instead of the 2nd best, who also happens to be a work in progress.
The Giants still have serious issues on defense.
Too many holes to fix in one offseason.



Sure, they signed Jenkins to big money...and said good-bye to Prince Amukamara. Jenkins has played in 60 out of a possible 64 games, as opposed to 55 out of a possible 80 for Amukamara. It's no wonder that Jenkins has more INTs and PDefs in four years than Amukamara had in five. So what, exactly, is your beef?

As for Apple vs. (I'll assume) Hargreaves, clearly the Giants took the kid who was taller, faster, and has a lot more of the proverbial "upside." Hargreaves may struggle less as a rookie, but the draft isn't just about this year, and Apple my turn out to be the better pro in the long run. That's what the Giants are banking on.

Yes, the Giants still have issues on defense, but the issues you're concerned with lack any serious foundation, in my opinion.


HE is wrong about some things but for one the possibility of the subject of this thread that OO may not be a player we can rely in. If he is a bust -- which is possible-- then he is exactly right pertaining to this thread.
No one can know for certain about OO. We make "guesses."

If the guy is a bust, he was right, right?
RE: RE: RE: NO  
Klaatu : 5/5/2016 10:23 am : link
In comment 12945944 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 12944199 Klaatu said:


Quote:


In comment 12944133 Glover said:


Quote:


He won't. He will be hurt again. Cant be counting on someone who hasn't shown much of anything. Wasted money on JPP, spent big money on Vernon, let Ayers go to the Bucs.
Signed Jenkins to big money, take the 3rd best CB instead of the 2nd best, who also happens to be a work in progress.
The Giants still have serious issues on defense.
Too many holes to fix in one offseason.



Sure, they signed Jenkins to big money...and said good-bye to Prince Amukamara. Jenkins has played in 60 out of a possible 64 games, as opposed to 55 out of a possible 80 for Amukamara. It's no wonder that Jenkins has more INTs and PDefs in four years than Amukamara had in five. So what, exactly, is your beef?

As for Apple vs. (I'll assume) Hargreaves, clearly the Giants took the kid who was taller, faster, and has a lot more of the proverbial "upside." Hargreaves may struggle less as a rookie, but the draft isn't just about this year, and Apple my turn out to be the better pro in the long run. That's what the Giants are banking on.

Yes, the Giants still have issues on defense, but the issues you're concerned with lack any serious foundation, in my opinion.



HE is wrong about some things but for one the possibility of the subject of this thread that OO may not be a player we can rely in. If he is a bust -- which is possible-- then he is exactly right pertaining to this thread.
No one can know for certain about OO. We make "guesses."

If the guy is a bust, he was right, right?


Sorry, but he is wrong about everything, except for the possibility that Odighizuwa may be too injury-prone to be counted on. Wow. What a bold prediction that is. It's not like we haven't seen it before with talented kids like Gerris Wilkerson and Cooper Taylor, and maybe even Devon Kennard.

But I don't like applying the "bust" label to guys that don't produce due to injuries, especially not those drafted after the first couple of rounds. To me, a "bust" is a guy who doesn't produce even though he was drafted early and had more than his share of opportunities to show that he could play. A "bust" is a guy who fails on the field, not because he couldn't get there in the first place.

Finally, his entire tone suggests a "fan" who would rather be right in his negativity, who would rather say "I told you so" instead of rooting for the laundry. I find that objectionable. Maybe you don't, but it's a free country.
RE: RE: Wild card?????  
ZogZerg : 5/5/2016 10:49 am : link
In comment 12944229 Hades07 said:
Quote:
In comment 12944087 ZogZerg said:


Quote:


You guys crack me up. A high 3rd round pick that many say should have been picked higher in the draft is expected to be a STARTER and produce in the NFL. There is nothing wild about him.

you obviously don't pay attention to the success rate of 3rd round picks league wide.



From 2013: Ravis Kelce, Tyrann Mathiew, Markus Wheaton, Keenan Allen, Jordan Reed, etc

Have all made HUGE impacts in the NFL.

You obviously don't pay attention to the success rate of 3rd round picks and the impact they can have. Get a clue!
the giants dont draft  
msh : 5/9/2016 7:05 pm : link
guys with off field issues the size of the honey badger if they did they would maybe have taken tunsil its just not the giants they like clean backgrounds and team captains the last few drafts have been better m.thompson probably the only really questionable pick the last 2 drafts and that prob had more to do with rolle leaving in FA and reaching for a safety out of need
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