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Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise: The Giants’ top target was Georgia linebacker Leonard Floyd, and the only real debate before the draft started was between him and Michigan State offensive lineman Jack Conklin. Everything else was a contingency plan, even if they did map those out. There was strong support for Conklin, especially from some of the coaches, but there was no directive that an O-lineman had to be the pick. It was Floyd first, Conklin second, and before the draft the Giants seemed confident at least one would be there.
And when they weren’t there? I asked a team source for a reaction to the Titans and Bears both trading over the Giants for those top two targets (the Titans took Conklin at 8, the Bears took Floyd at 9). The response … well let’s just say it really isn’t suitable for a family newspaper. But suffice to say they weren’t happy. “P----ed off” is how a league source described them. They didn’t panic. Like Reese said, they had played out this scenario. Besides, I think they knew the Bears and Titans were a threat to trade up for those two. I mean, everyone knew that. But I was told that if both guys were gone they thought they’d be OK because that would mean someone else from the Top 9 would fall into their laps. Unfortunately …
- If only the Top 9 player that fell to the Giants wasn’t the gas mask-wearing, bong-smoking Laremy Tunsil, everyone’s No. 1-rated offensive lineman (pre-drug video). My understanding is that he was the top OL on the Giants’ board too, and from what I can tell he was not off their board until the bong video came out. When it did, he became untouchable for them (at least in the first round). I don’t know if ownership got involved in that call, but everyone I talked to seemed to understand ownership never would’ve allowed that pick under those circumstances.
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top two targets weeks before the draft. Everyone knew their top 2 targets which is why some of the mock drafts showed the titans jumping to #8 to grab Conklin.
Pretty pathetic Front Office/Ownership we have. I'm guessing it's one of the owners yapping to everyone and their brother.
I don't understand this line of thinking. Did the Titans and Bears not know who Floyd and Conklin were prior to our supposed leaks? Were either player not on the top of each teams draft board and instead they chose to take a lesser rated player just to stick it to the Giants?
This leak theory makes no sense. We value OT/CB/Pass Rushers and will continue to do so moving forward. So we will have this same song and dance next year.
The theory makes plenty of sense. They knew he wouldn't make it past the Giants and so they knew they had to trade up to get him. Simples.
Any word on Davis?
Elaborate. You think leaks are good?
You don't think this happens in every NFL city? Everyone knew the Cowboys loves Ellliot, everyone knew Philliy loves Wentz.
Do you honestly think it's just the Giants? Come on dude.
Conklin and Floyd were widely considered top prospects. The Giants planned for the possibility that they would both be gone. Tunsil was a curve ball, who they weren't going to draft, and they obviously liked Apple over Hargreaves.
You can't be this dense. Do you need me to eat your lunch for you?
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are fans really this stupid?
Elaborate. You think leaks are good?
What leaks?? It isn't that fucking hard to pair a need with a top player.
RT and OLB/Pasrusher we're needs...do you really think other teams needed a fucking "leak" there radar?
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are fans really this stupid?
Elaborate. You think leaks are good?
Its the notion that people knowing who we like should be some big secret we everyone knows who everyone likes. Its stupid and its a weak attempt for people that don't like Reese to formulate an argument out of thin air.
You don't like Reese, fine, people are entitled to that. But saying we have moles and rats responsible for losing the players we want is hilarious.
Another team wanted a player and gave up picks to get him. Good for them, and good for us for going with a different player who hopefully had a great career while also keeping a valuable 3rd rounder.
You don't think this happens in every NFL city? Everyone knew the Cow boys loves Ellliot, everyone knew Philliy loves Wentz.Do you honestly think it's just the Giants? Come on dude. You can't be this dense. Do you need me to eat your lunch for you?
yes, other teams manage to keep their top choices a little bit closer to the vest than the Giants. And other teams have a track record of trading down, which makes it harder to predict what they're going to do on draft day.
Are you really this unaware of these basic facts?
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You don't think this happens in every NFL city? Everyone knew the Cow boys loves Ellliot, everyone knew Philliy loves Wentz.Do you honestly think it's just the Giants? Come on dude. You can't be this dense. Do you need me to eat your lunch for you?
yes, other teams manage to keep their top choices a little bit closer to the vest than the Giants. And other teams have a track record of trading down, which makes it harder to predict what they're going to do on draft day.
Are you really this unaware of these basic facts?
You're reading straight from the BBI moron handbook aren't you?
there is nothing in his article that you haven't heard before- and its still 100 posts.
amazing
then you really are unaware of what goes on around the league with other teams. Which I guess is what happens when you read straight from the blind homer handbook.
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You're reading straight from the BBI moron handbook aren't you?
then you really are unaware of what goes on around the league with other teams. Which I guess is what happens when you read straight from the blind homer handbook.
Who's being a homer? I simply calling you out on your utterly idiotic conspiracy theory.
Do you actually think no other team knew about Floyd and/or Conklin? Do you actually think NFL teams are unable to put 2 + 2 together? Serious question.
You think Jerry Reese was standing alone at Floyd's pro day? Do you actually think someone "tipped off" the Bears that the Giants may be interested in a top pass-rusher or OL?
This isn't the charade your making it out to be. There was always a chance Floyd and/or Conklin could be gone before the pick.
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You're reading straight from the BBI moron handbook aren't you?
then you really are unaware of what goes on around the league with other teams. Which I guess is what happens when you read straight from the blind homer handbook.
What the basis of the argument then? Does every trade up mean the team that got leapfrogged had leaks? What are the rules to said leak and how will i know when one happens? Why isn't it just X team wanted Y player bad enough and give up additional picks to get him?
I'm genuinely curious.
You should be embarrassed.
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In comment 12944873 drkenneth said:
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You're reading straight from the BBI moron handbook aren't you?
then you really are unaware of what goes on around the league with other teams. Which I guess is what happens when you read straight from the blind homer handbook.
What the basis of the argument then? Does every trade up mean the team that got leapfrogged had leaks? What are the rules to said leak and how will i know when one happens? Why isn't it just X team wanted Y player bad enough and give up additional picks to get him?
I'm genuinely curious.
I never said the word "leak". What I'm saying is that this front office has been very predictable over the years (more so than others). The facts bear this out. And it's not impossible that other teams have acted on that.
yes you "called me out" but you've offered nothing that contradicts a single thing I've said other than name calling. Are you 12?
never said anything like this.
with the Giants, it sure seems like an easier equation to figure out than with other teams.
do think this front office is more or less predictable than other front offices?
nobody is arguing otherwise. You can either address what I'm saying or continue to talk in circles arguing against yourself like an idiot. Which is it?
there is nothing in his article that you haven't heard before- and its still 100 posts.
amazing
You can only stop so much stupidity.
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Who's being a homer? I simply calling you out on your utterly idiotic conspiracy theory.
yes you "called me out" but you've offered nothing that contradicts a single thing I've said other than name calling. Are you 12?
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Do you actually think no other team knew about Floyd and/or Conklin?
never said anything like this.
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Do you actually think NFL teams are unable to put 2 + 2 together? Serious question.
with the Giants, it sure seems like an easier equation to figure out than with other teams.
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You think Jerry Reese was standing alone at Floyd's pro day? Do you actually think someone "tipped off" the Bears that the Giants may be interested in a top pass-rusher or OL?
do think this front office is more or less predictable than other front offices?
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This isn't the charade your making it out to be. There was always a chance Floyd and/or Conklin could be gone before the pick.
nobody is arguing otherwise. You can either address what I'm saying or continue to talk in circles arguing against yourself like an idiot. Which is it?
Your idea that the Giants are any more or less "predictable" is silly.
Did we not know Philly was taking Wentz? Did we not know Dallas was taking Elliot? Shall I go on?
Spare me the "Giants are so predictable" lunacy. It's like you watched the draft for the first time this year.
Time will tell of course but then so did atleast 3 or 4 other teams. The guy clearly has baggage and had other concerns before the video leaked. The Giants are obviously more confident than the fans in the current state of the OL and felt that Apple was better value than gambling on what can be seen as a mentally weak player (or at the very least one who makes repeated poor decisions).
Did we not know Philly was taking Wentz? Did we not know Dallas was taking Elliot? Shall I go on?
Dont have a horse in this race but truly terrible comparisons. Eagles traded up a fortune to get to #2 to ensure they got their guy. Dallas at #4 knew they were getting their RB, wasnt a debate, so no harm leaking it and gauging their fans reaction i suppose before hand -- besides when has Dallas and their 2 playoff wins in over 20 years with Jerry Jones professing every synapse that fires into his skeletor head on his weekly radio show... been a franchise to look up to?
Say what you want about other teams probably figuring out who we wanted anyway - maybe yes, maybe no - i do know there is zero upside for all the leaks and with all due respect to hitdog and others, allowing fans and friends to know where you are leaning.
If you provided examples of the Patriots thought process leading into a draft or preseason, i might be more inclined to say 'great point' on this one.
Since they thought he was worthy of the ninth pick they were concerned other teams would take him prior to the eleventh pick. Considering the Giants need for a pass rusher(JPP on a one year deal and no proven depth) they believed the Giants would also take Floyd and made the trade.
EVERYBODY knows the Giants love pass rushers. Is that a secret? I don't see how only a leak could have produced this scenario.
Plus, why would the Bears GM just assume that the leak some beat writer heard was gospel? How would that discussion go?
"Hey, a beat reporter says the Giants are going after Floyd!! I had no idea such a thing could be true. Lets spend a 4th round pick based on that. It has to be true."
Watch Apple and the class be A-OK and Floyd be a bust and we'll probably still hear, "Yeah, but Reese wanted Floyd and Conklin".
I think a handful of posters actually devote 90% of their posts just going after the GM. Sort of fruitless when there isn't much you can do about it.
What "major question marks" are there on defense? This team should have been 8-8 LAST YEAR.
OR
Tampa did not want Floyd but did want a CB and had Apple and Hargreaves rated equal, or close enough that a 4th round pick made the deal.
Some decent to good RT's Johnson, Davis, Bulaga,James. Two multi position guys who got better Pugh and Long. I'm sure I missed one or two.
Jury still out on last year but 1 got hurt and 1 didn't play. Peat was OK and I'm not interested in a Flowers debate. A whole lot of other players who are busts or approaching the status.
What are the odds that the 5 drafted this year are going to be anything other than 1 good RT, a Guard, a forgettable player and 2 busts?
So I stopped caring when the Giants passed on Tackles or didn't draft one when I wanted.
I think a handful of posters actually devote 90% of their posts just going after the GM. Sort of fruitless when there isn't much you can do about it.
You could say that about pretty much any message board topic. You spend a lot of times, for example, going after NFL and NHL referees and their calls in games. So I ask - What can you do about it?
Also think its fair to criticize Reese and the Giants org lately. We have been pretty brutal the last 4 years despite having a healthy franchise QB the entire time. If JR wants to shut up the fans and the media, its done on the scoreboard this fall.
Maybe, just maybe, the Giants never really wanted those players and leaked those names purposefully in a mis-direction strategy...
No sense trying to convince them otherwise.
I totally agree with this. They didn't like Floyd enough to trade up to get him. I am glad about that, since I prefer Apple and the extra pick. The solid players drafted in the later rounds vindicates the G-men not being too desperate.
I've never said it isn't fair to criticize Reese. I don't understand the posters who spend 90% of their time on this site complaining only about him.
You discuss a variety of topics. If you were only posting "Reese sucks" you don't think that would be odd?
Did we not know Philly was taking Wentz? Did we not know Dallas was taking Elliot? Shall I go on?
Really? You're comparing a top of the draft QB situation to the Giants? You're so lost.
Reese has NEVER traded down. You can't get more predictable than that. Are you really unaware of this basic stuff?
Done, over and old news. Nothing can be done about it and seems to me to be a big waste of time arguing over would have, could have and should have been done. I think a better use of time is writing and commenting on who we have, strength, weakness and what we can hope for this coming season.
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Did we not know Philly was taking Wentz? Did we not know Dallas was taking Elliot? Shall I go on?
Dont have a horse in this race but truly terrible comparisons. Eagles traded up a fortune to get to #2 to ensure they got their guy. Dallas at #4 knew they were getting their RB, wasnt a debate, so no harm leaking it and gauging their fans reaction i suppose before hand -- besides when has Dallas and their 2 playoff wins in over 20 years with Jerry Jones professing every synapse that fires into his skeletor head on his weekly radio show... been a franchise to look up to?
Say what you want about other teams probably figuring out who we wanted anyway - maybe yes, maybe no - i do know there is zero upside for all the leaks and with all due respect to hitdog and others, allowing fans and friends to know where you are leaning.
If you provided examples of the Patriots thought process leading into a draft or preseason, i might be more inclined to say 'great point' on this one.
Very much agree. Philly moves from what? 15 to 2 before the draft? What other position is worth that movement? Cowboys were linked to two players really at 4. So no reason why you couldn't narrow it down when Eagles moved to 2.
But at the same rate, we had the Giants narrowed down to really 5 players:
Hargreaves
Conklin
Floyd
Treadwell
Stanley
To be fair, when the two players most linked to the Giants were taken, NOBODY had us taking Apple.
I think we scored when the Bears took Floyd and left us with a young possible superstar in Apple. Reminds me a lot of Terrell Thomas minus the injuries.
Here are things I was aware of simply from reading OTHER media reports on OTHER teams heading up to the NFL draft...
1) Dallas wanted Elliot or Ramsey. Dallas had been talking about Elliot for weeks leading up to the draft.. What cemented the Elliot choice was the Eagles trading up to #2 to get Wentz. The Cowboys had been talking to Cleveland as well. Philly had a better offer.
2) San Diego was NEVER going to take an OT. They have A LOT of money invested in the OT position already and anyone taken would have had to play guard.. You dont take a guard @ #3. The only surprise was that they took Bosa when it was thought they would take Buckner..
3) The Ravens were rumored to like Staley better than Tunsil because he is a better run blocker.
4) Tampa Bay had been mocked to take either Leonard Floyd or a CB in almost every mock draft I saw. There was ZERO guarantee that Floyd would have been there if Tampa had stayed put. Now after the draft there were reports that Tampa liked Apple slight better than Hargreaves but would have been happy with either. So they could easily move down a bit and get what they wanted.
5) The Niners were not taking Lynch.. I read they wanted Buckner. Chip Kelly knows the player and they could team him with Armstead his college teammate.
6) Chicago had been hot for Floyd and he was the most consistent player being mocked to them and tied to them leading up to the draft.
7) The Titans had been rumored for WEEKS that they wanted to trade BACK into the top ten and get a tackle. It was reported before I EVER saw a published media report that the Giants wanted Conklin that the Titans wanted Conklin to play RT because they didnt want to move Taylor Lewan.. in fact when the trade happened I told my Dad who I was watching the draft with that it was a move for Conklin. And I saw this reported way before I saw reports about Conklin
And thats what I knew from being a guy who just sits and reads as much as he can.. Now lets talk about a few OTHER details.. here is one it seems BBI ignores completely..
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AGENTS TALK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Are we so clueless that we dont realize that the players AGENTS maneuver and manufacture this stuff to get their players picked where they want them to go? Are we so clueless that we dont believe that the players agent is telling Chicago that if you want Floyd you better trade up to get him because the Giants have shown a ton of interest.. which gets Floyd taken EARLIER.. which means MORE MONEY ??
Are we actually this clueless that we dont realize this goes on?
I mean really did Philly trade up not knowing which QB they would get when they were BOTH represented by the SAME agent ?? Really ????
I mean really if can sit here and sift through stuff on the internet and get a reasonable idea which teams like which player especially in picks 1-10 do we honesty think there are these HUGE draft leaks all over the place??
So let me get this straight.. The Giants spend MILLIONS of dollars in scouting and reports etc etc etc and looking at film.. and travelling around the country.. and talking to coached.. and players.. and hiring investigators to dig into backgrounds.. and medical checks.. and doing interviews.. and Senior Bowl.. and Combine.. and Pro Days.. etc etc etc.. and WEEKS putting together a draft board.. and running simulated mock drafts.. and even planning for the possibility that NONE of the players they they have highly rated would be available...
and TWO players get taken and the Giants PANIC ?? really ???
Ridiculous..
Is anyone who actually watches the Giants surprised that they took a younger.. taller.. bigger.. longer armed.. faster corner? who plays better in aggressive press man coverage?? (which by the way it seems Spags prefers) and who projects to be better on the outside that Hargreaves who allowed 16.5 yards per catch when one of the WORST things about the Giants is the YPC they give up??? Especially with DRC heading into the 30 plus years ???
I mean really..... We cant be THIS dense..
So, the Giants did do the right thing.
My first reaction was disappointment over not going for Corey Colman, but they did more than "just fine" with Shepard.
They made a long-term judgement call taking Apple and not Hargreaves (who is NFL ready, right now). I just don't think I would have been so "wise" after looking at Hargreaves' highlight video, for example.
Hargreaves looks like Spiderman in those videos, but Reese has to rely on his scouts and make an educated PROJECTION. I'm sure Hargreaves will make a huge splash in the NFL, while Apple learns and matures slowly; and that is what will make it painful.
But then what if Apple "gets it" quickly and is able to slow down the big receivers (that can hurt you the most) - that's the perfect scenario, isn't it?
I think it was on WFAN where McAdoo commented about the draft that he couldn't help "falling in love" with the talents of particular players, but when selection time came, he reminded himself that what was on the draft board were the results of a lot of preparation, hard work and analysis.