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Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise: The Giants’ top target was Georgia linebacker Leonard Floyd, and the only real debate before the draft started was between him and Michigan State offensive lineman Jack Conklin. Everything else was a contingency plan, even if they did map those out. There was strong support for Conklin, especially from some of the coaches, but there was no directive that an O-lineman had to be the pick. It was Floyd first, Conklin second, and before the draft the Giants seemed confident at least one would be there.
And when they weren’t there? I asked a team source for a reaction to the Titans and Bears both trading over the Giants for those top two targets (the Titans took Conklin at 8, the Bears took Floyd at 9). The response … well let’s just say it really isn’t suitable for a family newspaper. But suffice to say they weren’t happy. “P----ed off” is how a league source described them. They didn’t panic. Like Reese said, they had played out this scenario. Besides, I think they knew the Bears and Titans were a threat to trade up for those two. I mean, everyone knew that. But I was told that if both guys were gone they thought they’d be OK because that would mean someone else from the Top 9 would fall into their laps. Unfortunately …
- If only the Top 9 player that fell to the Giants wasn’t the gas mask-wearing, bong-smoking Laremy Tunsil, everyone’s No. 1-rated offensive lineman (pre-drug video). My understanding is that he was the top OL on the Giants’ board too, and from what I can tell he was not off their board until the bong video came out. When it did, he became untouchable for them (at least in the first round). I don’t know if ownership got involved in that call, but everyone I talked to seemed to understand ownership never would’ve allowed that pick under those circumstances.
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In Round 2, the discussion centered around the man they took, Oklahoma WR Sterling Shepard, and Alabama LB Reggie Ragland, who went one pick later to the Bills, according to a team source. The Giants had a very high grade on Shepard, though, and there were linebackers they liked that they thought they could get in later rounds (including Clemson’s B.J. Goodson, whom they took in the fourth).
Pretty pathetic Front Office/Ownership we have. I'm guessing it's one of the owners yapping to everyone and their brother.
In time this may be a blessing, especially with Floyd. He was easily the most controversial player with ties to the top 10/15 in regards to how he would fit in an adapt to the NFL.
Pretty pathetic Front Office/Ownership we have. I'm guessing it's one of the owners yapping to everyone and their brother.
I don't understand this line of thinking. Did the Titans and Bears not know who Floyd and Conklin were prior to our supposed leaks? Were either player not on the top of each teams draft board and instead they chose to take a lesser rated player just to stick it to the Giants?
This leak theory makes no sense. We value OT/CB/Pass Rushers and will continue to do so moving forward. So we will have this same song and dance next year.
Colin's explanation is a lot less lascivious but more cogent.
Colin's explanation - ( New Window )
Pretty pathetic Front Office/Ownership we have. I'm guessing it's one of the owners yapping to everyone and their brother.
You're a dope. Do you actually pay attention? Funny how we knew the Cowboys loved Elliot, the Eagles wanted Wentz, Gof was going #1.
Stop saying stupid things.
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top two targets weeks before the draft. Everyone knew their top 2 targets which is why some of the mock drafts showed the titans jumping to #8 to grab Conklin.
Pretty pathetic Front Office/Ownership we have. I'm guessing it's one of the owners yapping to everyone and their brother.
You're a dope. Do you actually pay attention? Funny how we knew the Cowboys loved Elliot, the Eagles wanted Wentz, Gof was going #1.
Stop saying stupid things.
It's getting old
The reality is Conklin and Floyd were picked right where they should have been because they are good players.
So if you think Reese blew it - then you would trade BJ Goodson and Eli Apple for Conklin or Floyd?
That was my first thought. Colin said the Giants really weren't interested in Conklin, and Ralph said they were. Go figure.
Personally - just knowing the Giants MO, corner over RT if rankings are similar seems like a no-brainer, they'd take the corner every time.
A. Spell my name right.
B. Your obsession with me is a little creepy. It's clear that I've gotten under your skin. That happens when you're wrong and hate to admit it. Move on.
I and everybody else must have missed the press conference where that happened.
Taking Apple fills a position of need and makes it obvious he was higher on the Giants board than Hargreaves. Apple has a tremendous upside and is DRC's replacement in a year or two. Good solid pick at a position of need.
That's literally how the scenario would have to play out for it to hold any water.
Compare the level of risk. One is a top 10 pick and one is an undrafted FA who the team isn't tied to for 4+ years.
What "rapist" are you referring to?
One requires an investment of millions of dollars, and one is completely disposable?
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is that the Giants will sign an apparently rapist, Lewis, but won't draft a pot smoker.
What "rapist" are you referring to?
Lewis, the UDFA, discussed at the end of the article.
Ozzie Newsome went on record saying that they had Tunsil ranked lower (their main targets were Ramsey and Stanley) before the video came out.
There was quite a bit of baggage there - public statements about taking payments, firing financial advisors, his stepfather suing - not to mention quite a few injuries. Could be he wasn't ranked as highly by GMs as by draftniks.
That's literally how the scenario would have to play out for it to hold any water.
Not really.
its not that the other teams didn't know about the players, its that they knew the giants targeted them and they need to jump ahead of us to get them.
If it wasn't so obvious, the bears might have stayed put at 11 and the Giants would have Floyd.
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Amtoft and johnnyc know more about football and what really happened more than the Giants
A. Spell my name right.
B. Your obsession with me is a little creepy. It's clear that I've gotten under your skin. That happens when you're wrong and hate to admit it. Move on.
You're the man!!!! Nobody knows more than you on draft day, after the pick of course. We're all idiots but you
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In comment 12944457 jeff57 said:
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is that the Giants will sign an apparently rapist, Lewis, but won't draft a pot smoker.
What "rapist" are you referring to?
Lewis, the UDFA, discussed at the end of the article.
Got it. Big difference, don't you think? Word was that there were other issues with Tusil as well.
The reality is Conklin and Floyd were picked right where they should have been because they are good players.
So if you think Reese blew it - then you would trade BJ Goodson and Eli Apple for Conklin or Floyd?
Lol so true. It's because people are delusional enough to think that they are as much in the know as Front Offices in the NFL just because "insider information" on Twitter. There are more ways for people to get a sense of whom a team likes than an Ian Rappaport tweet. Also, if the Giants WERE interested in Conklin & Floyd, why would it be difficult for us to accept that other teams would have the same interest, therefore trading up to secure their guy. Why is it difficult for people to believe that Reese and company knew this was a possibility and opted to stay put because Apple was of similar value to the two? The Giants always put players in tiers; don't you think that if Eli Apple was truly below value to the Giants, they wouldn't have traded down (a la the Kiwi year) for their next tier of players? It's the relentless arrogance of posters who feel like they have a true sense of what happens based on asshat intel and insider tweets alone.
Don't think that's the concern at all. The concern is that the player will do something stupid and take himself off the field.
I just think they didnt expect both.
IIRC, JR said there were discussions about trade, likely OUT of 10, but the offers werent enough. I have the feeling one was Tenn. looking to swap, get 10, take Conklin, for the 15 and a 3rd, JR likely wanted a 2nd or even both, so they stayed and took the CB.
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In comment 12944438 Giants2012 said:
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Amtoft and johnnyc know more about football and what really happened more than the Giants
A. Spell my name right.
B. Your obsession with me is a little creepy. It's clear that I've gotten under your skin. That happens when you're wrong and hate to admit it. Move on.
You're the man!!!! Nobody knows more than you on draft day, after the pick of course. We're all idiots but you
The only person coming off like an idiot here is you. Move on, kid.
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that Reese is amazing. So amazing that he finds all these players no one has ever heard of in the 1st round and has such high grades on them that once hearing about said leaks these other inferior GM's have absolutely no choice but to take the player Reese wants/thinks is best.
That's literally how the scenario would have to play out for it to hold any water.
Not really.
its not that the other teams didn't know about the players, its that they knew the giants targeted them and they need to jump ahead of us to get them.
If it wasn't so obvious, the bears might have stayed put at 11 and the Giants would have Floyd.
When aren't we interested in an Edge Rusher, CB, or OT? That's my point.
Ehh, SD knew the 2 picks going ahead of them and got to pick whoever they wanted after that. They got to do whatever they wanted and really lucked out being able to get their #1 ranked player without breaking a sweat.
So let me get this straight: You think the Giants told reporters who they wanted? Is that really what your're going with?
Well, first things first. He's not a convicted rapist. He was acquitted of one charge, and a mistrial was declared on the second.
Let's not portray this as if they're hiring Rae Carruth. And, yes it does matter that he's an undrafted free agent. He makes no money, has no guarantee, and they can cut him if they don't like the color of his shirt. They're giving him a thin chance.
Yes.
Pretty pathetic Front Office/Ownership we have. I'm guessing it's one of the owners yapping to everyone and their brother.
Yeah well, everyone wants Asshat info. Isn't great they got it and lost 2 players we wanted. I honestly do not believe they wanted an OL. That said we picked Apple now move on I like the kid. Let us see what happens.
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Does it right. I didn't like their player in Bosa, but they shut their mouth and no one knows what they are going to do. If we keep our mouth shut I don't think two teams trade in front of us. I'm glad as I didn't want Floyd but it's not good business to keep letting the reporters know who you are going to pick.
So let me get this straight: You think the Giants told reporters who they wanted? Is that really what your're going with?
Eric knew we were taking David Wilson. Someone from the org had to tell him.
Even though, I suspect our top target was J. Ramsey.
Floyd and Conklin were legit top 15 picks at worst. The whole fucking planet knew this.
What do you think happened? The rest of the league found out the Giants liked these two, and move them up their boards?
Again, this shit isn't tough to figure out. There's no conspiracy here.
9 players were going to get drafted before the Giants pick.
It's shocking that this needs to be explained.
His name was Janzen Jackson.
His name was Janzen Jackson.
Thanks for throwing some more stupid on the pile.
Even though, I suspect our top target was J. Ramsey.
Didn't Reese say he wanted Heyward Bey over Nicks too?
Amen brother. I prefer Apple. I thought in the scenario that unfolded Hargreaves should be the pick. They had a higher grade on Apple and that's good enough for me. They are the pros.
It is disturbing and disappointing how every year the Giants targeted players are apparently well known to all allowing teams to trump us by moving around the board.
Amen brother. I prefer Apple. I thought in the scenario that unfolded Hargreaves should be the pick. They had a higher grade on Apple and that's good enough for me. They are the pros.
It is disturbing and disappointing how every year the Giants targeted players are apparently well known to all allowing teams to trump us by moving around the board.
Like Odell Beckham?
His name was Janzen Jackson.
.
A lot of debate about the guy. Great athlete but those highlights did not exactly proclaim him a 4-3 OLB. Not sure what he is but would guess a 3-4 OLB is a better fit. Should be interesting what he turns out to be.
So fucking what? What is this, minority report? You can't predict the future.
Yeah,who could predict that some of these guys the Giants are bringing in would stay the same.Will Hill is another.They are always signing players with baggage as undrafted free agents.
Vacchiano cites sources in the draft room.
I don't understand how there's a choice of who to believe.
I find it hard to believe, even with today's technology, that a leak occurred. The circle must have been tight. If someone was paid for inside info I think they would have weeded him/her out by now and terminated them
It's possible but highly unlikely.
ALL LEAKS MUST BE SEALED!
if they kept their mouth shut about Floyd they'd have him right now. It's that simple.
Conklin obviously impressed Solari but we weren't getting him.
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top two targets weeks before the draft. Everyone knew their top 2 targets which is why some of the mock drafts showed the titans jumping to #8 to grab Conklin.
Pretty pathetic Front Office/Ownership we have. I'm guessing it's one of the owners yapping to everyone and their brother.
You're a dope. Do you actually pay attention? Funny how we knew the Cowboys loved Elliot, the Eagles wanted Wentz, Gof was going #1.
Stop saying stupid things.
We knew the Rams were taking Goff, No one could do anything about it.
We knew the Eagles were taking Wentz, no one could do anything about it.
We knew the Cowboys were in love with the RB. Cowboys leak their board as well. But, no one was trading to #3 to grab the RB, and if they did, they had the pick they should have taken.
So what's your fucking point dr Douche-bag? This was not the same situation the Giants were in at #10. Lots of movement can happen with teams jumping in front, especially when Cleveland made it clear they wanted to trade back.
Of course teams may speculate what other teams may be drafting and they may make moves because of that, but the Giants make it way too easy for teams to plan what they want to do on draft day.
People who think these leaks don't matter just don't get it and it was on full display on Thursday night.
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...for jumping up to grab Floyd.'
.
A lot of debate about the guy. Great athlete but those highlights did not exactly proclaim him a 4-3 OLB. Not sure what he is but would guess a 3-4 OLB is a better fit. Should be interesting what he turns out to be.
Agree, just doesn't seem to fit into the D and way too many questions about him. We'll see, maybe he'll turn out to great.
When they have to have a guy, they trade to get him.
When they're comfortable with a handful of guys, they pick the one that falls to them.
Fans love to believe the story that most fits their emotion with the team at the time.
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top two targets weeks before the draft.
I and everybody else must have missed the press conference where that happened.
I think it was just you.
How I remember it:
Maclin
Heyward Bey
Nicks
Britt (perhaps off the board or down a round)
Harvin was supposed to go off first and I don't remember if Reese had interest or no desire to move up for him.
Al Davis does what he does, Harvin slides, Eagles trade up (Reese does not) and everyone in here debates the Britt/Nicks thing for a while.
Members of BBI can speculate, what the teams ahead of the Giants are looking for, and might draft....and have a pretty good idea, of what might be available, when it's the Giants turn.....
This is not rocket science.....it's pretty straight forward...
Does anyone truly believe, that Eli
Apple was the #1 player on the Giant board? Or #2 for that matter? He was the product of what can go wrong when certain players are picked that you don't project to be picked, and also of what can happen when teams, with similar needs, are willing to trade up and get a guy that they think will start for them, even if it means sacrificing a pick....
If we got Conklin, think he would be a starter?
If we got Floyd, think he would be a starter?
In both cases, I think it's safe to say yes.....these were needs for the Titans and Bears, and they will start for each team....and they were willing to trade up to get them....
After Conklin was lost, think Reese knew the Bears might trade up? He wouldn't be a good GM, if he didn't....
So now, Reese has to weight the current situation....who is #1 left on our board, Floyd or Apple.....if it was Floyd, and he really wanted him, he could have done the same thing the Bears did.....if Apple was #1, it becomes moot.....
But the Bears got their starter, and the Giants didn't, at least not right away.....
Reese made the decision to keep his draft picks, and not move up.....maybe he only rated Floyd slightly over Apple.....
Fact is two teams traded up to get their guy.....
And while I feel, this was a good draft, we will be lucky to get major contributions from our first two picks.....Apple, if asked to start due to an injury, has a ways to go....he is not going to get away with the hand contact he was used to doing in College....but if he gets significant playing time during the season, he can become, more of a factor down the stretch......more than Apple, Shepard has to make an even bigger leap....he was the fifth WR chosen, from a field of WR's that wasn't that strong.....it's almost imperative, that he replaces Randle, especially if Cruz has problems....
The rest, we have to hope, are major upgrades to what we had on the field last season, either as starters or backups and being the first off the bench......and once again only time will tell....
But to suggest that an NFL team, can not figure out, what teams ahead of them will do/pick, borders on stupidity....
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top two targets weeks before the draft. Everyone knew their top 2 targets which is why some of the mock drafts showed the titans jumping to #8 to grab Conklin.
Pretty pathetic Front Office/Ownership we have. I'm guessing it's one of the owners yapping to everyone and their brother.
I don't understand this line of thinking. Did the Titans and Bears not know who Floyd and Conklin were prior to our supposed leaks? Were either player not on the top of each teams draft board and instead they chose to take a lesser rated player just to stick it to the Giants?
This leak theory makes no sense. We value OT/CB/Pass Rushers and will continue to do so moving forward. So we will have this same song and dance next year.
The theory makes plenty of sense. They knew he wouldn't make it past the Giants and so they knew they had to trade up to get him. Simples.
Any word on Davis?
Elaborate. You think leaks are good?
You don't think this happens in every NFL city? Everyone knew the Cowboys loves Ellliot, everyone knew Philliy loves Wentz.
Do you honestly think it's just the Giants? Come on dude.
Conklin and Floyd were widely considered top prospects. The Giants planned for the possibility that they would both be gone. Tunsil was a curve ball, who they weren't going to draft, and they obviously liked Apple over Hargreaves.
You can't be this dense. Do you need me to eat your lunch for you?
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are fans really this stupid?
Elaborate. You think leaks are good?
What leaks?? It isn't that fucking hard to pair a need with a top player.
RT and OLB/Pasrusher we're needs...do you really think other teams needed a fucking "leak" there radar?
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are fans really this stupid?
Elaborate. You think leaks are good?
Its the notion that people knowing who we like should be some big secret we everyone knows who everyone likes. Its stupid and its a weak attempt for people that don't like Reese to formulate an argument out of thin air.
You don't like Reese, fine, people are entitled to that. But saying we have moles and rats responsible for losing the players we want is hilarious.
Another team wanted a player and gave up picks to get him. Good for them, and good for us for going with a different player who hopefully had a great career while also keeping a valuable 3rd rounder.
You don't think this happens in every NFL city? Everyone knew the Cow boys loves Ellliot, everyone knew Philliy loves Wentz.Do you honestly think it's just the Giants? Come on dude. You can't be this dense. Do you need me to eat your lunch for you?
yes, other teams manage to keep their top choices a little bit closer to the vest than the Giants. And other teams have a track record of trading down, which makes it harder to predict what they're going to do on draft day.
Are you really this unaware of these basic facts?
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You don't think this happens in every NFL city? Everyone knew the Cow boys loves Ellliot, everyone knew Philliy loves Wentz.Do you honestly think it's just the Giants? Come on dude. You can't be this dense. Do you need me to eat your lunch for you?
yes, other teams manage to keep their top choices a little bit closer to the vest than the Giants. And other teams have a track record of trading down, which makes it harder to predict what they're going to do on draft day.
Are you really this unaware of these basic facts?
You're reading straight from the BBI moron handbook aren't you?
there is nothing in his article that you haven't heard before- and its still 100 posts.
amazing
then you really are unaware of what goes on around the league with other teams. Which I guess is what happens when you read straight from the blind homer handbook.
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You're reading straight from the BBI moron handbook aren't you?
then you really are unaware of what goes on around the league with other teams. Which I guess is what happens when you read straight from the blind homer handbook.
Who's being a homer? I simply calling you out on your utterly idiotic conspiracy theory.
Do you actually think no other team knew about Floyd and/or Conklin? Do you actually think NFL teams are unable to put 2 + 2 together? Serious question.
You think Jerry Reese was standing alone at Floyd's pro day? Do you actually think someone "tipped off" the Bears that the Giants may be interested in a top pass-rusher or OL?
This isn't the charade your making it out to be. There was always a chance Floyd and/or Conklin could be gone before the pick.
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You're reading straight from the BBI moron handbook aren't you?
then you really are unaware of what goes on around the league with other teams. Which I guess is what happens when you read straight from the blind homer handbook.
What the basis of the argument then? Does every trade up mean the team that got leapfrogged had leaks? What are the rules to said leak and how will i know when one happens? Why isn't it just X team wanted Y player bad enough and give up additional picks to get him?
I'm genuinely curious.
You should be embarrassed.
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In comment 12944873 drkenneth said:
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You're reading straight from the BBI moron handbook aren't you?
then you really are unaware of what goes on around the league with other teams. Which I guess is what happens when you read straight from the blind homer handbook.
What the basis of the argument then? Does every trade up mean the team that got leapfrogged had leaks? What are the rules to said leak and how will i know when one happens? Why isn't it just X team wanted Y player bad enough and give up additional picks to get him?
I'm genuinely curious.
I never said the word "leak". What I'm saying is that this front office has been very predictable over the years (more so than others). The facts bear this out. And it's not impossible that other teams have acted on that.
yes you "called me out" but you've offered nothing that contradicts a single thing I've said other than name calling. Are you 12?
never said anything like this.
with the Giants, it sure seems like an easier equation to figure out than with other teams.
do think this front office is more or less predictable than other front offices?
nobody is arguing otherwise. You can either address what I'm saying or continue to talk in circles arguing against yourself like an idiot. Which is it?
there is nothing in his article that you haven't heard before- and its still 100 posts.
amazing
You can only stop so much stupidity.
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Who's being a homer? I simply calling you out on your utterly idiotic conspiracy theory.
yes you "called me out" but you've offered nothing that contradicts a single thing I've said other than name calling. Are you 12?
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Do you actually think no other team knew about Floyd and/or Conklin?
never said anything like this.
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Do you actually think NFL teams are unable to put 2 + 2 together? Serious question.
with the Giants, it sure seems like an easier equation to figure out than with other teams.
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You think Jerry Reese was standing alone at Floyd's pro day? Do you actually think someone "tipped off" the Bears that the Giants may be interested in a top pass-rusher or OL?
do think this front office is more or less predictable than other front offices?
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This isn't the charade your making it out to be. There was always a chance Floyd and/or Conklin could be gone before the pick.
nobody is arguing otherwise. You can either address what I'm saying or continue to talk in circles arguing against yourself like an idiot. Which is it?
Your idea that the Giants are any more or less "predictable" is silly.
Did we not know Philly was taking Wentz? Did we not know Dallas was taking Elliot? Shall I go on?
Spare me the "Giants are so predictable" lunacy. It's like you watched the draft for the first time this year.
Time will tell of course but then so did atleast 3 or 4 other teams. The guy clearly has baggage and had other concerns before the video leaked. The Giants are obviously more confident than the fans in the current state of the OL and felt that Apple was better value than gambling on what can be seen as a mentally weak player (or at the very least one who makes repeated poor decisions).
Did we not know Philly was taking Wentz? Did we not know Dallas was taking Elliot? Shall I go on?
Dont have a horse in this race but truly terrible comparisons. Eagles traded up a fortune to get to #2 to ensure they got their guy. Dallas at #4 knew they were getting their RB, wasnt a debate, so no harm leaking it and gauging their fans reaction i suppose before hand -- besides when has Dallas and their 2 playoff wins in over 20 years with Jerry Jones professing every synapse that fires into his skeletor head on his weekly radio show... been a franchise to look up to?
Say what you want about other teams probably figuring out who we wanted anyway - maybe yes, maybe no - i do know there is zero upside for all the leaks and with all due respect to hitdog and others, allowing fans and friends to know where you are leaning.
If you provided examples of the Patriots thought process leading into a draft or preseason, i might be more inclined to say 'great point' on this one.
Since they thought he was worthy of the ninth pick they were concerned other teams would take him prior to the eleventh pick. Considering the Giants need for a pass rusher(JPP on a one year deal and no proven depth) they believed the Giants would also take Floyd and made the trade.
EVERYBODY knows the Giants love pass rushers. Is that a secret? I don't see how only a leak could have produced this scenario.
Plus, why would the Bears GM just assume that the leak some beat writer heard was gospel? How would that discussion go?
"Hey, a beat reporter says the Giants are going after Floyd!! I had no idea such a thing could be true. Lets spend a 4th round pick based on that. It has to be true."
Watch Apple and the class be A-OK and Floyd be a bust and we'll probably still hear, "Yeah, but Reese wanted Floyd and Conklin".
I think a handful of posters actually devote 90% of their posts just going after the GM. Sort of fruitless when there isn't much you can do about it.
What "major question marks" are there on defense? This team should have been 8-8 LAST YEAR.
OR
Tampa did not want Floyd but did want a CB and had Apple and Hargreaves rated equal, or close enough that a 4th round pick made the deal.
Some decent to good RT's Johnson, Davis, Bulaga,James. Two multi position guys who got better Pugh and Long. I'm sure I missed one or two.
Jury still out on last year but 1 got hurt and 1 didn't play. Peat was OK and I'm not interested in a Flowers debate. A whole lot of other players who are busts or approaching the status.
What are the odds that the 5 drafted this year are going to be anything other than 1 good RT, a Guard, a forgettable player and 2 busts?
So I stopped caring when the Giants passed on Tackles or didn't draft one when I wanted.
I think a handful of posters actually devote 90% of their posts just going after the GM. Sort of fruitless when there isn't much you can do about it.
You could say that about pretty much any message board topic. You spend a lot of times, for example, going after NFL and NHL referees and their calls in games. So I ask - What can you do about it?
Also think its fair to criticize Reese and the Giants org lately. We have been pretty brutal the last 4 years despite having a healthy franchise QB the entire time. If JR wants to shut up the fans and the media, its done on the scoreboard this fall.
Maybe, just maybe, the Giants never really wanted those players and leaked those names purposefully in a mis-direction strategy...
No sense trying to convince them otherwise.
I totally agree with this. They didn't like Floyd enough to trade up to get him. I am glad about that, since I prefer Apple and the extra pick. The solid players drafted in the later rounds vindicates the G-men not being too desperate.
I've never said it isn't fair to criticize Reese. I don't understand the posters who spend 90% of their time on this site complaining only about him.
You discuss a variety of topics. If you were only posting "Reese sucks" you don't think that would be odd?
Did we not know Philly was taking Wentz? Did we not know Dallas was taking Elliot? Shall I go on?
Really? You're comparing a top of the draft QB situation to the Giants? You're so lost.
Reese has NEVER traded down. You can't get more predictable than that. Are you really unaware of this basic stuff?
Done, over and old news. Nothing can be done about it and seems to me to be a big waste of time arguing over would have, could have and should have been done. I think a better use of time is writing and commenting on who we have, strength, weakness and what we can hope for this coming season.
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Did we not know Philly was taking Wentz? Did we not know Dallas was taking Elliot? Shall I go on?
Dont have a horse in this race but truly terrible comparisons. Eagles traded up a fortune to get to #2 to ensure they got their guy. Dallas at #4 knew they were getting their RB, wasnt a debate, so no harm leaking it and gauging their fans reaction i suppose before hand -- besides when has Dallas and their 2 playoff wins in over 20 years with Jerry Jones professing every synapse that fires into his skeletor head on his weekly radio show... been a franchise to look up to?
Say what you want about other teams probably figuring out who we wanted anyway - maybe yes, maybe no - i do know there is zero upside for all the leaks and with all due respect to hitdog and others, allowing fans and friends to know where you are leaning.
If you provided examples of the Patriots thought process leading into a draft or preseason, i might be more inclined to say 'great point' on this one.
Very much agree. Philly moves from what? 15 to 2 before the draft? What other position is worth that movement? Cowboys were linked to two players really at 4. So no reason why you couldn't narrow it down when Eagles moved to 2.
But at the same rate, we had the Giants narrowed down to really 5 players:
Hargreaves
Conklin
Floyd
Treadwell
Stanley
To be fair, when the two players most linked to the Giants were taken, NOBODY had us taking Apple.
I think we scored when the Bears took Floyd and left us with a young possible superstar in Apple. Reminds me a lot of Terrell Thomas minus the injuries.
Here are things I was aware of simply from reading OTHER media reports on OTHER teams heading up to the NFL draft...
1) Dallas wanted Elliot or Ramsey. Dallas had been talking about Elliot for weeks leading up to the draft.. What cemented the Elliot choice was the Eagles trading up to #2 to get Wentz. The Cowboys had been talking to Cleveland as well. Philly had a better offer.
2) San Diego was NEVER going to take an OT. They have A LOT of money invested in the OT position already and anyone taken would have had to play guard.. You dont take a guard @ #3. The only surprise was that they took Bosa when it was thought they would take Buckner..
3) The Ravens were rumored to like Staley better than Tunsil because he is a better run blocker.
4) Tampa Bay had been mocked to take either Leonard Floyd or a CB in almost every mock draft I saw. There was ZERO guarantee that Floyd would have been there if Tampa had stayed put. Now after the draft there were reports that Tampa liked Apple slight better than Hargreaves but would have been happy with either. So they could easily move down a bit and get what they wanted.
5) The Niners were not taking Lynch.. I read they wanted Buckner. Chip Kelly knows the player and they could team him with Armstead his college teammate.
6) Chicago had been hot for Floyd and he was the most consistent player being mocked to them and tied to them leading up to the draft.
7) The Titans had been rumored for WEEKS that they wanted to trade BACK into the top ten and get a tackle. It was reported before I EVER saw a published media report that the Giants wanted Conklin that the Titans wanted Conklin to play RT because they didnt want to move Taylor Lewan.. in fact when the trade happened I told my Dad who I was watching the draft with that it was a move for Conklin. And I saw this reported way before I saw reports about Conklin
And thats what I knew from being a guy who just sits and reads as much as he can.. Now lets talk about a few OTHER details.. here is one it seems BBI ignores completely..
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AGENTS TALK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Are we so clueless that we dont realize that the players AGENTS maneuver and manufacture this stuff to get their players picked where they want them to go? Are we so clueless that we dont believe that the players agent is telling Chicago that if you want Floyd you better trade up to get him because the Giants have shown a ton of interest.. which gets Floyd taken EARLIER.. which means MORE MONEY ??
Are we actually this clueless that we dont realize this goes on?
I mean really did Philly trade up not knowing which QB they would get when they were BOTH represented by the SAME agent ?? Really ????
I mean really if can sit here and sift through stuff on the internet and get a reasonable idea which teams like which player especially in picks 1-10 do we honesty think there are these HUGE draft leaks all over the place??
So let me get this straight.. The Giants spend MILLIONS of dollars in scouting and reports etc etc etc and looking at film.. and travelling around the country.. and talking to coached.. and players.. and hiring investigators to dig into backgrounds.. and medical checks.. and doing interviews.. and Senior Bowl.. and Combine.. and Pro Days.. etc etc etc.. and WEEKS putting together a draft board.. and running simulated mock drafts.. and even planning for the possibility that NONE of the players they they have highly rated would be available...
and TWO players get taken and the Giants PANIC ?? really ???
Ridiculous..
Is anyone who actually watches the Giants surprised that they took a younger.. taller.. bigger.. longer armed.. faster corner? who plays better in aggressive press man coverage?? (which by the way it seems Spags prefers) and who projects to be better on the outside that Hargreaves who allowed 16.5 yards per catch when one of the WORST things about the Giants is the YPC they give up??? Especially with DRC heading into the 30 plus years ???
I mean really..... We cant be THIS dense..
So, the Giants did do the right thing.
My first reaction was disappointment over not going for Corey Colman, but they did more than "just fine" with Shepard.
They made a long-term judgement call taking Apple and not Hargreaves (who is NFL ready, right now). I just don't think I would have been so "wise" after looking at Hargreaves' highlight video, for example.
Hargreaves looks like Spiderman in those videos, but Reese has to rely on his scouts and make an educated PROJECTION. I'm sure Hargreaves will make a huge splash in the NFL, while Apple learns and matures slowly; and that is what will make it painful.
But then what if Apple "gets it" quickly and is able to slow down the big receivers (that can hurt you the most) - that's the perfect scenario, isn't it?
I think it was on WFAN where McAdoo commented about the draft that he couldn't help "falling in love" with the talents of particular players, but when selection time came, he reminded himself that what was on the draft board were the results of a lot of preparation, hard work and analysis.