NFT: Yanks talk 5-4

In comment 12945406 Jay in Toronto said:

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Bring back Dooley Womack! The name is tempting - but he had a good first year

Yes, his first full year - 1967 - on a Yankee team that lost 90 games, he was the closer and a decent one:

5-6, 2.41, 18 saves

I think he was my favorite Yankee that year ...

he was the only player worth watching. And maybe Mel Hall's jerry curl.

Pure howitzer, as good as any I've ever seen.

with that fuck ass pitching and defense.

In comment 12945411 Greg from LI said:

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even Donnie was pretty bad in 1990

Thats not he way I remember it. The trade of Al Lieter for Barfield was as bad a trade as the Yankees ever made. Barfield had one great season in Toronto in which he hit 40 home runs. When he came here he was nothing but a selfish mistake hitter. He hit his 20 or so home runs, but he struck out a lot, never could go the other way and couldn't hit worth a damn with men on base. Sound familiar ?

As for Maas he could hit right handed pitching and do nothing else. He was worse against left handed pitching than any left handed hitter they have now and he couldn't play the field at all. Mattingly was hurt much of the year and was pressing at the plate. With no protection in the lineup there was little reason for opposing pitchers to ever throw him a strike.

That was nowhere near one of the worst trades the Yankees ever made.

.246/.359/.456, 25 homers, 127 OPS+. You might not have liked him, but Barfield was pretty productive in 1990.

It wasn't the mythical "lack of protection" that killed Donnie in 1990, it was that hit back robbed him on almost all of his power.

In comment 12945516 Greg from LI said:

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That was nowhere near one of the worst trades the Yankees ever made. .246/.359/.456, 25 homers, 127 OPS+. You might not have liked him, but Barfield was pretty productive in 1990. It wasn't the mythical "lack of protection" that killed Donnie in 1990, it was that hit back robbed him on almost all of his power.

Lieter was a raw pitcher with a lot of potential, playing on a bad team. The Yankees, just as they always do shipped him out for an aging power hitter. His numbers as you quoted were decent, but when I watched him play day to day I wanted to shoot him. He was the type of guy that hit 500 ft home runs against mediocre pitching, but when he came up with the tying run on second he'd strike out or pop up. I guess these memories or so clear because we see history repeating itself.

In another parallel to today, Jim Leyritz was the Refsynder of his time. He was about the only exciting live bat on the team, but management didn't like him. He had a big mouth and he wasn't a great fielder. As a result he didn;t get much playing time and was up and down. Fortuneatly in the long run things worked out for him

In comment 12945381 Greg from LI said:

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I went to my first game in 1981, against the White Sox, and I've always remembered it because Reggie was ejected for arguing a called strike three and it made me so mad! haha

I don't know why, but I think that game rings a bell with me.

Reggie is the reason I'm a Yankees fan. I had gone 2 a game at Shea through the beach club we went to. I also met some of the Mets. That had no impact on me. In 1977 I went to my first Yankees game. Compared to Shea, Yankee Stadium was majestic and magical on its own. Then, Reggie strode to the plate and the Reg-gie chant got going. That was a huge thrill. I was hooked right then and there.

I instantly took a liking to Thurman, not knowing as a 5 year old all the crap in the locker rrom between them or between Reggie and anyone else. I just loved those 2 guys. Then there was Guidry, because I'm a lefty, and Nettles and Randolph. Those were my 5 favorites.

For many years, Reggie was passed only by Mattingly for me. Then later, Paul O'Neill and Bernie Williams rose pretty close to the top. Jorge Posada and Jeter weren't far off. But, Mattingly remains my all time favorite and at that this point I don't see that changing. Reggie would probably be my second.

In comment 12945225 BIG FRED 1973 said:

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teams but at least the games were fun to go to even though we stunk but hey we had Donnie baseball and you could get a ticket for the upper deck the day of the game and move down with no problem ,Now a days fuggettaboutit lol

No doubt-- I loved the old stadium so much -- man I miss that place. Even when the yanks were great in the late 90s early 2000s getting a cheap ticket and sneaking down to the hot seats was a breeze. Those days are over.

that makes this team uninspiring to follow. After Jeter left we have a collection of free-agents brought over to plug holes. We got screwed out of Bird this year and Severino hasn't yet delivered. The influx of homegrown talent will be essential, for me, going forward.

Not Cashman. No excuses though. My Yankees suck. Buy the old farts out of their contracts and move on. Until they are competitive again I'm not coming back to the stadium. Not that they give a crap.

has to make. And of course Headley fucks it up. It's laughable at this point. I mean, all you can do is laugh right?

Yankees being 1 hit into the 6th inning by a rookie pitcher

because there are maybe 3 people who start them and at least one of those has marginal interest in baseball right now.

Headley...dear lord.

and so he doesn't score on Gardy's hit up the middle.

Hope that doesn't bite us in the butt.

In comment 12945597 Giant John said:

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Not Cashman. No excuses though. My Yankees suck. Buy the old farts out of their contracts and move on. Until they are competitive again I'm not coming back to the stadium. Not that they give a crap.

Were you complaining when they won their last WS? No.

And the "big contract" stuff is nonsense and excuse. MLB is not the NBA. The Yankees can spend whatever they like. It is their choice to keep the payroll at 2005 levels.

a HR by 5 feet. Damn.

Finally getting to the rook though.

2-0

CC looking very AP tonight.

.

in a loooooong time. Great job big fella.

by CC tonight. Mixed it up well. Great 7 innings.

Now let's hope the Rothschild has straightened Betances out ( or rather made him less straight.)

has been promoted to AAA. I coached baseball on the varsity level at the high school he went too when he was at junior high. Great kid.

.

4th row

He can't buy a hit, and on top of that he gets fucked by the third bad ump. Horrendous call. The guy obviously just wants to get back to the hotel bar.

Didi with his first big hit in forever.

I like this no game-thread thing. It seems to be working...

The way things are going, he'll probably be out two months from this. Trainer's out looking at his elbow.

In comment 12945712 Greg from LI said:

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The way things are going, he'll probably be out two months from this. Trainer's out looking at his elbow.

Was thinking something similar.

Up by 7 runs and you walk two batters. I'd send him down, but I don't think they can.

it sucked to have to go to Betances but it's also nice to give him a chance to get in a lopsided game and get a bit of his confidence back.

We discussed this the other day about Refsnyder playing right field. When I was in my car listening to the pregame a couple of minutes before the first pitch Suzyn Waldmen made mention of the Yankees bringing up Pazos but that it was a temporary move because they play twenty straight days and depending on how CC went last night they may need and extra arm.

Well, they didn't need him because CC terrific. Suzyn then went on to say it was only temporary and that they would be bringing up a hitter from AAA. She immediately followed with, and with that in mind as we speak in Scranton Rob Refsnyder was playing right field once again, so, then she left it at that.

I don't know who or when but I feel if Hicks doesn't start to do something with the bat and soon, they'd be crazy not to give Refsnyder a shot. I know Hicks has a great arm but how long can you keep sticking with him in the lineup. He gives them nothing. Yeah once in a while he uncorks a great throw. but he's as automatic an out as Headley is.

In comment 12945728 section125 said:

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Up by 7 runs and you walk two batters. I'd send him down, but I don't think they can.

Then release him and call up Ref

that Refsnyder asked to take some reps in RF. The org had to acquiesce of course, but it's interesting that he's trying to find his own way to the majors.

In the Outfield. That's why he was converted to second base.
He can hit though he more a DH.

In comment 12945945 Shadow said:

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In the Outfield. That's why he was converted to second base. He can hit though he more a DH.

Refsnyder was converted to an infielder because they didn't think the bat would play as a corner OF. He doesn't have a huge arm (though it's not in the Ells or even Gardy class of weak) but his range and his first step are fine.

is spot on. It's not that he can't play the outfield it's exactly what Dunedin pointed out. What I find intersting is that Gardner is not your everyday, pardon the pun, garden variety corner outfielder either although he does have some pop in his bat. I think Refsnyder is comparable to Gardner in that sense.

He has hit at every level. They say if you can hit in the majors they will find a spot for you. Funny how the Yankees can't find a spot for this guy although I guess you can say they have tried. I think a lot of it has to do with the big money contracts a lot of these aging vets have that are clogging up the process.

His natural position was CF - he only played corners because at the time they still had Damon. He also stole bases.

In comment 12946092 Greg from LI said:

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His natural position was CF - he only played corners because at the time they still had Damon. He also stole bases.

Refsnyder's minor league high for SBs was a respectable 23, but it's more technique/savvy than speed. Gardner stole 58 his first full season in the minors. Gardner's bat "played" in the corner (even though he's more of a natural CF as Greg says) because he stole bases, and now it's still more or less respectable because he is a double digit HR guy.

If Gardner couldn't play center, and was merely an average outfielder (which is what I've read Refsnyder is), he would have been a fringe MLB player.

Hes killing it like Refs right now.

Doesn't anyone think Refsnyder can hit at least ten homeruns? Remember the days when middle infielders weren't thought of as powers hitters as well as shortstops. Why is it necessary for him to be a 30 homerun type of guy to play corner outfield. I think those days are long gone for the most part. Hicks hasn't been able to hit with a runner in scoring postion. He can't even get a hit when there's no one on base. Sometimes you don't need the homerun. Just a single once in awhile. I think Refsnyder is more the capable.

If they wait until sometime in June (I think) to call him up, his free agency is delayed by a year. It's the same thing the Cubs did with Kris Bryant.

Hicks hasn't done anything, but it's been 30 scattered ABs.

In comment 12946131 Greg from LI said:

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If they wait until sometime in June (I think) to call him up, his free agency is delayed by a year. It's the same thing the Cubs did with Kris Bryant. Hicks hasn't done anything, but it's been 30 scattered ABs.

The problem is there isn't a specific deadline, it's a guesstimate as to what will constitute that delay, so you'll see a lot of teams wait until sometime in June to start calling folks up.

In comment 12946122 blueblood'11 said:

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Doesn't anyone think Refsnyder can hit at least ten homeruns? Remember the days when middle infielders weren't thought of as powers hitters as well as shortstops. Why is it necessary for him to be a 30 homerun type of guy to play corner outfield. I think those days are long gone for the most part. Hicks hasn't been able to hit with a runner in scoring postion. He can't even get a hit when there's no one on base. Sometimes you don't need the homerun. Just a single once in awhile. I think Refsnyder is more the capable.

I've been beating that drum for awhile. You'll get professional ABs, patience, a little bit of pop and a little bit of speed. He's a "blender" in the MLB Network parlance, on a team that lacks them.

Boy oh boy from your lips to God's ear. So true so true.

It seems to me that Ref's fielding ineptitude is overdone. Sure he made a couple of throwing errors at third in spring training, but he had quick reflexes and got to a lot of balls. He needs more experience, but its not as if he's a butcher and god knows, we've tolerated a few of those. Last year when the Yankees favored Drew over Ref , I gave them the benefit of the doubt. Drew was an outstanding defensive second baseman and despite his low average he hit the occassional clutch home run. This year they're favoring Headley who might still be a better fielder than Ref, he's far from Graig Nettles. If they use Ref at third they can get some offense out of that position and they can always bring Headley in as a defensive replacement if they get a lead.

Lohud Yankees Blog Verified account
‏@LoHudYankees

Source says Ben Gamel is coming up to join the Yankees tonight.

Responding to a reader question about Shrek's HOF chances, Law said something like "I don't think he's a Hall of Fame player, and that's ever before we talked about the failed PED test"

That'll leave a mark.

In comment 12946743 rut17 said:

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Lohud Yankees Blog Verified account ‏@LoHudYankees Source says Ben Gamel is coming up to join the Yankees tonight.

Let's see if Girardi uses him. I suppose it is possible that Gardner is a non-go after getting hit on the elbow last night- but I strongly believe that the Yanks MUST find out what they have in their "other" prospects in 2016.

In other words, they generally know what they have in Judge, Bird and Sanchez. However, guys like Gamel can be immensely important if they demonstrate that they can be nice platoon/4th OF guys.

People forget how important it was to have a good 4th OF like Gerald Williams back in the dynasty years. If you do not have to give million dollar deals for guys who are washed up, or give up valuable backups for bench players because you have internal choices, it makes it easier to build a deep team.

I think Gamel is just the first guy they need to give an extended chance (and by extended, I mean a month or two, not 50 ABs) to. I hope Mason Williams gets some game action soon so that they can give him an extended look too- he showed so much potential before getting hurt- and could at least be a legitimate backup CF- and maybe more if last year's hitting display was for real.

The next couple would be Refsynder and Jyle Higashioka (AA C who is a top-end defensive C who while he has drawn plaudits for his hitting approach, could not get it done- until now)- if he can hit ML stuff, he could make an impressive pairing with Sanchez going forward- and allow the Yanks to leave C alone and focus resources elsewhere.

I also want them to give legitimate innings and appearances to some of the AAA guys who are currently not on the 40- but have the stuff. First on my list is Connor Mullee (facinating backstory, but now that he is healthy, putting up GREAT numbers). Others- Tyler Webb, Jonathan Holder, Matt Wotherspoon.

I really believe that the Yanks have some potential shut down relievers- but they need to get to NY, work out the initial jitters that young P have, and then show their stuff, so that the Yanks feel comfortable trading Betances and Miller, and letting Chapman walk in FA this winter.

The Yanks have the guys who can form the nucleus of a strong bench and a strong pen, and several legitimate ML hitters- but they need to get a chance. Trades of high end guys could also buttress the rebuild- especially if they can ID a legit ML 3B

Ice was gone by the dynasty years, traded with Bob Wickman to Milwaukee for Pat Listach and Graeme Lloyd. He returned for a brief stint in the early 2000s.

The dynasty teams had Bernie and O'Neill with a rotating group of OFs in LF and spelling Bernie when he was dinged up as he frequently was. Raines, Curtis, Strawberry, Ledee, Bellinger, etc.