Not because he's a good GM, because he isn't. Because he'd hire Bill Belichick as his head coach.
Seriously, though, Kevin Colbert. The Steelers do an impressive job of retooling every few years, and they're never out of the hunt for long. Ozzie Newsome would be my runner up.
Not really. Now, the Steelers always had their own idiosyncratic front office structure. Colbert was hired in 2000 as "Director of Football Operations" but didn't have the GM title until 2010. Assuming that he had GM powers since 2000, though, the Steelers only have had one losing season under him, 2003. Ten playoff seasons, five nonplayoff seasons - but 8-8 or 9-7 in four of those five. Only missed the playoffs in consecutive seasons once, in 2012-13. Oh yeah, and three Super Bowls and two titles.
Newsome took over in 2002. Eight playoff seasons, seven nonplayoff seasons, one title. Had a few really bad years though - 5-11 last year, 5-11 in 2007, 6-10 in 2005. They've both done well, but I'd say your comment applies more to Newsome than Colbert.
but I think the best scouting department in the NFL belongs to the Bengals. They have been a great at drafting and developing home grown talent into solid contributors. The Seahawks and Packers are up there as well.
I agree if Marc Ross was let go and the Giants upgraded the position then I think people would appreciate Reese more. Has he made mistakes in free agency? Absolutely but everyone including the great Ozzie Newsome has as well.
He would have a job the next day. He's very underrated.
Not many GMs get to keep their jobs when they havent put together a 10 win roster since 2010. Not sure anyone is 'underrating' him -- there are legitimate questions as to whether Gettleman and Accorsi drove a big part of those two championships and the fact remains that we havent won nearly enough division titles considering Eli's remarkable health for over a decade now.
Jerry Reiss who has no clue how to work a draft and maximize value e.c. He's never traded down in 72 picks. Not once. Amazing. Here's a recent quote from ESPN.
"That is where they New York Giants have found themselves. They are in desperation mode. The players they drafted since Jerry Reese became general manager in 2007 combined to make 164 starts throughout the NFL last season. That was 18 fewer than any other team's picks and 95 fewer than the league average. The Giants just watched two-time Super Bowl champion Tom Coughlin become the first coach in team history to finish below .500 in three consecutive full seasons."
So hiring him would rest on the question of how much longer can he coach at a high level. He's 64.
Corey Dillon, Randy Moss, Rodney Harrison, Junior Seau,Danny Woodhead etc. I wouldn't call that mediocre.
the way he was able to bring in Revis to win a title, trade for Talib, dish Richard Seymour (though that might have been a year too soon), Logan Mankins, trade for Welker (a 7th and a 2nd?), and his drafting of players like Gronk, Jamie Collins, McCourty, Edelman, etc.
People say Belichick the GM had made Belichick the coach's job harder, and I believe that to a point, because he does some off-beat stuff, but he's also done a lot of good, and it definitely helps that he's shopping for the groceries and cooking the meal.
Jerry Reiss who has no clue how to work a draft and maximize value e.c. He's never traded down in 72 picks. Not once. Amazing. Here's a recent quote from ESPN.
"That is where they New York Giants have found themselves. They are in desperation mode. The players they drafted since Jerry Reese became general manager in 2007 combined to make 164 starts throughout the NFL last season. That was 18 fewer than any other team's picks and 95 fewer than the league average. The Giants just watched two-time Super Bowl champion Tom Coughlin become the first coach in team history to finish below .500 in three consecutive full seasons."
How many times do we have to hear some jackass lamenting about never trading down for the sake of trading down?
or not, just put together a winning roster. however it needs to be done.
What some people admire about Belichick is when he makes a mistake, he gets creative to rectify it.
Chandler Jones - cut bait, trade him for a pick and a highly drafted, equally troubled, guard.
Dominique Easley isn't working out, they cut him, didn't keep a roster spot and inactivate him every week, cut bait and move on.
takes guts and job security.
And nowhere in this thread does it say anyone wants to fire Reese, the OP asked who the best GM is. If you think it's Reese say so, otherwise other people have their own opinions.
I heard Joe Banner go on and on about him and all the stuff he's accomplished the other day on Andrew Brandt's first "Business of Football" podcast. Count me as an Elway believer after hearing that case made for him. Andrew Brandt w/ Joe Banner- check it out - ( New Window )
Belichick, Ted Thompson, Ozzie Newsome and John Elway.
It might be hard to separate the "cooking from the grocery shopping" with Belichick, but putting out competitive teams for 15+ years, making the playoffs almost every year, 6 Super Bowl appearances and 4 Super Bowl wins put him at the top IMHO.
If Bill Belichick is mediocre as a GM, what does that make Reese?
He is way over rated. Every year he drafts loads of defensive players and they still are not good on D. How is his OL. Without Rodgers a QB gets killed there. I don't care how many draftees are on that roster it is not good
Newsome has had some really questionable drafts lately as well as some major FA misses
To me both teams had superior coaching staffs
Elway right now is the best
Elways draft's and FA classes the last 5 years are tops
'11 & '12 draft picks - Von Miller, Orlando Franklin, Julius Thomas, Derek Wolfe, Osweiler, Hillman, Malik Jackson, Danny Trevathan.
Free agents - Ware, TJ Ward, E. Sanders, Talib, D. Stewart, obviously Peyton.
Add in some other guys they probably got a little lucky with like Chris Harris, CJ Anderson and Brandon Marshall. Pretty damn good body of work.
Even though it's popular to knock Belichek the GM vs. Belichek the coach I think he's also hands down the best at manipulating the draft, and most recently he's done well retooling their defense after many years of falloff (Jamie Collins, Logan Ryan, Chandler Jones prior to the trade, Devin Mccourtney, Hightower, Butler).
Steve Keim and Mccagnan have only been GMs for a few yars but they have both been pretty impressive so far.
Reggie McKenzie is high on the list. No results yet to put him in the upper eschelon, but he inherited a boatload of shit (talent-wise as well as cap wise) and now has that team on what looks to be an awesome trajectory.
His career as a GM is an enigma. Up to the 2011 SB, he'd have to be one of the best. Then, he has 3 horrible drafts plus CAP issues after winning the SB and for that time period, a bad job. Starting in 2013, he's had good drafts and this year had and spent some serious money. We'll see. I still maintain that as flawed a team as the Giants were last year, with better coaching they could have won a weak division and if Eli gets into the playoffs, anything could happen,
The real trick for evaluating some of the GMs is how the team performs when the star player, usually the franchise QB retires. Let's see how Denver does next year and NE without Brady and Pitt without Ben and GB without Rodgers. And, if he lasts that long, NY without being Eli.
His career as a GM is an enigma. Up to the 2011 SB, he'd have to be one of the best. Then, he has 3 horrible drafts plus CAP issues after winning the SB and for that time period, a bad job. Starting in 2013, he's had good drafts and this year had and spent some serious money. We'll see. I still maintain that as flawed a team as the Giants were last year, with better coaching they could have won a weak division and if Eli gets into the playoffs, anything could happen,
The real trick for evaluating some of the GMs is how the team performs when the star player, usually the franchise QB retires. Let's see how Denver does next year and NE without Brady and Pitt without Ben and GB without Rodgers. And, if he lasts that long, NY without being Eli.
This is just my theory, but I think SB 46 was a gift and a curse. That SB lulled our FO and coaching staff into thinking that we had enough talent to compete. I also think there's a chance that winning a 2nd SB gave Coughlin a little more clout in the war room, and that might be a reason why our drafts suffered in the mid to late rounds.
coach that you can say has just as much power in the FO as the GM, because he is also the GM(duh, just saying, though). Other coaches obviously have say, as they should, but if the coach isn't the GM, the GM has more say than any coach.
Elway, Schneider, Keim and Gettleman are all off to great starts.
Keep in mind, though: judging them at this point is like judging Reese after SB LXVI. To truly get the measure of a GM in the cap era, you have to see how he performs through a couple of contract cycles. Even then, there's a huge element of dumb luck.
Aaron Rodgers can cover up a lot of mistakes made in constructing a roster.
What's funny is that I bet Jerry Reese would be a lot of posters answers if he were GM somewhere else with the same exact results.
Eli is no slouch. and I doubt we'd be fawning much over a GM of another team that had missed the playoffs 4 straight years despite having a franchise QB. In fact most of them would be on the open market since the Giants are one of the more patient organizations around.
the GM has the easiest job in the business because Belichick the coach is the most adaptable coach in the game, scheme and personnel-wise (or at least is up there with anyone). As such, he no longer has to find valuable players, at a value, who also fit a rigid system, but rather find valuable pieces and then make a scheme work from there.
Aaron Rodgers can cover up a lot of mistakes made in constructing a roster.
What's funny is that I bet Jerry Reese would be a lot of posters answers if he were GM somewhere else with the same exact results.
Eli is no slouch. and I doubt we'd be fawning much over a GM of another team that had missed the playoffs 4 straight years despite having a franchise QB. In fact most of them would be on the open market since the Giants are one of the more patient organizations around.
I love Eli as much as anyone but he's not on Rodgers' level.
And the grass is always greener. If Reese was in Pittsburgh people would just say "the guy was GM for two Championship teams.. he had a couple of bad drafts but injuries have ruined that team in recent years" . Guaranteed.
There are very few franchises that have been able to maintain a stable level of competitive football for a sustained period of time.
Since Pittsburgh hasn't missed the postseason 4 straight years in the Big Ben era (and the Super Bowl 9-7 team 8 times out of 10 doesn't make the playoffs with that record most seasons)
Perhaps we should compare Reese to the recent saints teams and drafts.
And yes he was a part of the 07 run but he wasn't at the helm. Perhaps you should hold the 90s and early 00s against him too to be consistent.
Anyway this should definitely be a make or break year for Reese. The past 4 years has been pretty bad and Eli deserves better
Seriously, though, Kevin Colbert. The Steelers do an impressive job of retooling every few years, and they're never out of the hunt for long. Ozzie Newsome would be my runner up.
but even with the "next 5 years" qualifier I'm afraid I wouldn't trust Polian.
He's a hall-of-famer, I'd hire Belichick, Colbert or Newsome.
Not really. Now, the Steelers always had their own idiosyncratic front office structure. Colbert was hired in 2000 as "Director of Football Operations" but didn't have the GM title until 2010. Assuming that he had GM powers since 2000, though, the Steelers only have had one losing season under him, 2003. Ten playoff seasons, five nonplayoff seasons - but 8-8 or 9-7 in four of those five. Only missed the playoffs in consecutive seasons once, in 2012-13. Oh yeah, and three Super Bowls and two titles.
Newsome took over in 2002. Eight playoff seasons, seven nonplayoff seasons, one title. Had a few really bad years though - 5-11 last year, 5-11 in 2007, 6-10 in 2005. They've both done well, but I'd say your comment applies more to Newsome than Colbert.
I agree if Marc Ross was let go and the Giants upgraded the position then I think people would appreciate Reese more. Has he made mistakes in free agency? Absolutely but everyone including the great Ozzie Newsome has as well.
If we have another losing season, I'd have no problem if he was fired. at that point he's properly rated as an unemployed GM.
Corey Dillon, Randy Moss, Rodney Harrison, Junior Seau,Danny Woodhead etc. I wouldn't call that mediocre.
Not many GMs get to keep their jobs when they havent put together a 10 win roster since 2010. Not sure anyone is 'underrating' him -- there are legitimate questions as to whether Gettleman and Accorsi drove a big part of those two championships and the fact remains that we havent won nearly enough division titles considering Eli's remarkable health for over a decade now.
Jerry Reiss who has no clue how to work a draft and maximize value e.c. He's never traded down in 72 picks. Not once. Amazing. Here's a recent quote from ESPN.
"That is where they New York Giants have found themselves. They are in desperation mode. The players they drafted since Jerry Reese became general manager in 2007 combined to make 164 starts throughout the NFL last season. That was 18 fewer than any other team's picks and 95 fewer than the league average. The Giants just watched two-time Super Bowl champion Tom Coughlin become the first coach in team history to finish below .500 in three consecutive full seasons."
GB fans dont like Ted at all. He refuses to spend on the FA market which frustrates them.
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So hiring him would rest on the question of how much longer can he coach at a high level. He's 64.
Corey Dillon, Randy Moss, Rodney Harrison, Junior Seau,Danny Woodhead etc. I wouldn't call that mediocre.
the way he was able to bring in Revis to win a title, trade for Talib, dish Richard Seymour (though that might have been a year too soon), Logan Mankins, trade for Welker (a 7th and a 2nd?), and his drafting of players like Gronk, Jamie Collins, McCourty, Edelman, etc.
People say Belichick the GM had made Belichick the coach's job harder, and I believe that to a point, because he does some off-beat stuff, but he's also done a lot of good, and it definitely helps that he's shopping for the groceries and cooking the meal.
Bill B trades a lot, and BBI loves that shit, so some herextra conflate that with being a good GM. It doesnt.
Greg is right. Great coach. All time great. Very mediocre GM.
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and I would keep him around
Jerry Reiss who has no clue how to work a draft and maximize value e.c. He's never traded down in 72 picks. Not once. Amazing. Here's a recent quote from ESPN.
"That is where they New York Giants have found themselves. They are in desperation mode. The players they drafted since Jerry Reese became general manager in 2007 combined to make 164 starts throughout the NFL last season. That was 18 fewer than any other team's picks and 95 fewer than the league average. The Giants just watched two-time Super Bowl champion Tom Coughlin become the first coach in team history to finish below .500 in three consecutive full seasons."
How many times do we have to hear some jackass lamenting about never trading down for the sake of trading down?
Bill B trades a lot, and BBI loves that shit, so some herextra conflate that with being a good GM. It doesnt.
Greg is right. Great coach. All time great. Very mediocre GM.
He did not sign Moss or Dillon as free agents. he traded for both.
They traded a 2nd round pick for Dillon, which of course they got in a trade with someone else. and a 4th for Moss.
Both steals.
And I think Thompson is overrated too
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Didn't draft Moss, Dillon Harrison, et al. He signed them as FAs. Drafting the core that put the Patriots on the map was done by his predecessor.
Bill B trades a lot, and BBI loves that shit, so some herextra conflate that with being a good GM. It doesnt.
Greg is right. Great coach. All time great. Very mediocre GM.
He did not sign Moss or Dillon as free agents. he traded for both.
They traded a 2nd round pick for Dillon, which of course they got in a trade with someone else. and a 4th for Moss.
Both steals.
You're right. And both players original teams couldn't wait to get rid of them.
What some people admire about Belichick is when he makes a mistake, he gets creative to rectify it.
Chandler Jones - cut bait, trade him for a pick and a highly drafted, equally troubled, guard.
Dominique Easley isn't working out, they cut him, didn't keep a roster spot and inactivate him every week, cut bait and move on.
takes guts and job security.
And nowhere in this thread does it say anyone wants to fire Reese, the OP asked who the best GM is. If you think it's Reese say so, otherwise other people have their own opinions.
Andrew Brandt w/ Joe Banner- check it out - ( New Window )
It might be hard to separate the "cooking from the grocery shopping" with Belichick, but putting out competitive teams for 15+ years, making the playoffs almost every year, 6 Super Bowl appearances and 4 Super Bowl wins put him at the top IMHO.
If Bill Belichick is mediocre as a GM, what does that make Reese?
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GB fans dont like Ted at all. He refuses to spend on the FA market which frustrates them.
Based on frequency of playoff trips, he must be doing a nice job with his drafts then don't you think?
(hint: the answer is "yes")
Newsome has had some really questionable drafts lately as well as some major FA misses
To me both teams had superior coaching staffs
Elway right now is the best
Free agents - Ware, TJ Ward, E. Sanders, Talib, D. Stewart, obviously Peyton.
Add in some other guys they probably got a little lucky with like Chris Harris, CJ Anderson and Brandon Marshall. Pretty damn good body of work.
Even though it's popular to knock Belichek the GM vs. Belichek the coach I think he's also hands down the best at manipulating the draft, and most recently he's done well retooling their defense after many years of falloff (Jamie Collins, Logan Ryan, Chandler Jones prior to the trade, Devin Mccourtney, Hightower, Butler).
Steve Keim and Mccagnan have only been GMs for a few yars but they have both been pretty impressive so far.
Carroll isn't the GM. They work closely together to find players that fit their system. They have an identity. Like Little Bill, and Ozzie.
What's funny is that I bet Jerry Reese would be a lot of posters answers if he were GM somewhere else with the same exact results.
The real trick for evaluating some of the GMs is how the team performs when the star player, usually the franchise QB retires. Let's see how Denver does next year and NE without Brady and Pitt without Ben and GB without Rodgers. And, if he lasts that long, NY without being Eli.
and Reese is better without Ross
The real trick for evaluating some of the GMs is how the team performs when the star player, usually the franchise QB retires. Let's see how Denver does next year and NE without Brady and Pitt without Ben and GB without Rodgers. And, if he lasts that long, NY without being Eli.
This is just my theory, but I think SB 46 was a gift and a curse. That SB lulled our FO and coaching staff into thinking that we had enough talent to compete. I also think there's a chance that winning a 2nd SB gave Coughlin a little more clout in the war room, and that might be a reason why our drafts suffered in the mid to late rounds.
What's funny is that I bet Jerry Reese would be a lot of posters answers if he were GM somewhere else with the same exact results.
Eli is no slouch. and I doubt we'd be fawning much over a GM of another team that had missed the playoffs 4 straight years despite having a franchise QB. In fact most of them would be on the open market since the Giants are one of the more patient organizations around.
Quote:
Aaron Rodgers can cover up a lot of mistakes made in constructing a roster.
What's funny is that I bet Jerry Reese would be a lot of posters answers if he were GM somewhere else with the same exact results.
Eli is no slouch. and I doubt we'd be fawning much over a GM of another team that had missed the playoffs 4 straight years despite having a franchise QB. In fact most of them would be on the open market since the Giants are one of the more patient organizations around.
I love Eli as much as anyone but he's not on Rodgers' level.
And the grass is always greener. If Reese was in Pittsburgh people would just say "the guy was GM for two Championship teams.. he had a couple of bad drafts but injuries have ruined that team in recent years" . Guaranteed.
There are very few franchises that have been able to maintain a stable level of competitive football for a sustained period of time.
Perhaps we should compare Reese to the recent saints teams and drafts.
And yes he was a part of the 07 run but he wasn't at the helm. Perhaps you should hold the 90s and early 00s against him too to be consistent.
Anyway this should definitely be a make or break year for Reese. The past 4 years has been pretty bad and Eli deserves better