[virtue signaling]Now, I have no particular problem with Caitlyn Jenner,[/virtue signaling], but I really didn't need another several months of controversy to sift through, not when our plates will be full with the DJT candidacy.
And obviously, it's not even about her - just the people who now ache to get offended every time she deigns to leave the house, but you can't help but get the sense that she's courting their ire. Also her prerogative - but the rest of us have to suffer for the resulting backlash.
And SI doesn't put actual women who are 66 years old posing nude on the cover.
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than he makes for one of the ugliest women out there.
And SI doesn't put actual women who are 66 years old posing nude on the cover.
I've got other magazines for that.
Won't use "she", though, because Caitlyn Jenner has a penis and thus isn't a woman, no matter how much he may desire to be one.
So if Caitlyn had surgery you'd begin saying 'her'?
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In comment 12946248 steve in ky said:
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than he makes for one of the ugliest women out there.
And SI doesn't put actual women who are 66 years old posing nude on the cover.
I've got other magazines for that.
Actually, it has to do with all three. What other 66 year old would SI let pose nude on the cover? Regardless of the dollars and PR.
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...political correctness. It has to do with dollars and PR.
Actually, it has to do with all three. What other 66 year old would SI let pose nude on the cover? Regardless of the dollars and PR.
Nope. PC has become the catch-all for folks with a particular viewpoint. In this case, it's an absolute misuse of the term. This is strictly commercial.
I grew up knowing Bruce Jenner, not Caitlin. So he self identifies as a woman - I identify him as an athlete.
If people in a sports forum refer to Cassius Clay or Lew Alcindor, we know exactly who they are talking about. We don't correct them in the vein of them being disrespectful.
I wish people would realize that words are mainly a means to streamline communication. When somebody says Bruce Jenner, you know who they are referring to. Isn't that the point?
Hey, if he wants to go all the way through with this and become a woman physically and legally, great. Until then, he is still a he. If it was anyone else, I also may be understanding. But, given the family this is coming from, there is always a part of me that simply believes this is all a PR stunt...like joke's on us.
Either way, this posing nude is nothing more than a stunt, as I said in the top of my post.
And I can't get that song out of my head.
- B Jenner
It's got nothing to do with PC, and seeing people try to frame it as such is dumb.
There isn't any false equivalency here of "oh we put women on the cover all the time, so we need to put a trans woman on now". A trans woman isn't being on to placate the masses. Although I could see this as Sports Illustrated trying to seem progressive and inclusive... but the fact that it's Jenner and nude just makes it so easy to see through that charade.
Want to show support for the trans community? How about a cover of a trans athlete instead?
SI is just using the "acceptance" bandwagon to sell magazines and create a stir. They don't give a shit about helping the LGBT community, and they are intentionally trying to piss people off on both "sides".
SI is now no better than Rolling Stone now.
I don't understand the mindset of someone who is trans (as presumably you don't either), and it's something I probably won't ever get. But having said that, I'm accepting of whatever an individual feels or identifies with... so if Jenner identifies as a woman and goes by Caitlyn, I'm not going to call her "him" just to spite her and prove some silly point.
It's got nothing to do with PC
Although I could see this as Sports Illustrated trying to seem progressive and inclusive...
Aren't you contradicting yourself? I don't think anyone is saying that dollar signs aren't also a motivation.
I grew up knowing Bruce Jenner, not Caitlin. So he self identifies as a woman - I identify him as an athlete.
If people in a sports forum refer to Cassius Clay or Lew Alcindor, we know exactly who they are talking about. We don't correct them in the vein of them being disrespectful.
I wish people would realize that words are mainly a means to streamline communication. When somebody says Bruce Jenner, you know who they are referring to. Isn't that the point?
Of course it's just a message board though so nobody gives a shit..I'm just speaking conceptually.
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It's got nothing to do with PC
Although I could see this as Sports Illustrated trying to seem progressive and inclusive...
Aren't you contradicting yourself? I don't think anyone is saying that dollar signs aren't also a motivation.
IMO, Political correctness doesn't mean being inclusive or forward thinking (well, it shouldn't at least). It's about going over the top to placate individuals and not offend people.
If facts are simply what we want then to be, regardless of reality, you're opening the door to some very dark paths.
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In comment 12946510 Sonic Youth said:
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It's got nothing to do with PC
Although I could see this as Sports Illustrated trying to seem progressive and inclusive...
Aren't you contradicting yourself? I don't think anyone is saying that dollar signs aren't also a motivation.
IMO, Political correctness doesn't mean being inclusive or forward thinking (well, it shouldn't at least). It's about going over the top to placate individuals and not offend people.
As any connection between Jenner and sport is decades old, I'd say this is going over the top to placate individuals.
If facts are simply what we want then to be, regardless of reality, you're opening the door to some very dark paths.
I get the analogy about the Dalai Lama bit, and it's spot on since the Dalai Lama is an actual singular person, but I don't know if it's perfectly applicable since you can't be another individual. However, "man" and "woman" are categorical, so wouldn't a better analogy be if Jenner felt he was a Buddhist, started practicing Buddhism, and people refused to call him Buddhist?
Granted the obvious hole in that logic is that religion isn't a biological attribute, which I totally understand. It's a messy comparison on both ends (since for your analogy, you referenced acting as a specific individual, and in my analogy, I wasn't speaking about a physical trait).
Not arguing with you, just sharing my perspective on it.
How many people referred to Prince as an unaudible symbol? If you grew up your entire life as Elton John's best friend, is he pissed you call him Reggie?
I only know Jenner as Bruce, and frankly most discussion I'd have of him is of accomplishments as Bruce. And there's also Greg's thing that he's still got a dick.
So he wants to be called Kaitlin. Cool. But how is it disrespectful to not call him Caitlin when having a discussion about attention whoring? I still don't call Ron Artest Metta World Peace.
You know how many people think of themselves as Christ or a God. They self identify as one, so do we have to satisfy them?
Like he said, if we abide by what people self-identify with, we open up some really dark areas.
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I get your point, but wouldn't you find it disrespectful to call someoen by the name they previously abandoned or changed?
How many people referred to Prince as an unaudible symbol? If you grew up your entire life as Elton John's best friend, is he pissed you call him Reggie?
I only know Jenner as Bruce, and frankly most discussion I'd have of him is of accomplishments as Bruce. And there's also Greg's thing that he's still got a dick.
So he wants to be called Kaitlin. Cool. But how is it disrespectful to not call him Caitlin when having a discussion about attention whoring? I still don't call Ron Artest Metta World Peace.
I also think the reason someone changed their name factors into things.
Metta World Peace and the symbol for Prince were seemingly done for attention and contractual reasons, respectively. But Jabbar, Ali, and Jenner seemed to have changed their name as an actual reflection of their identity (not that Caitlin Jenner isn't the biggest fucking attention whore on the planet and is so god damn annoying).
It's kind of like calling Karl Anthony Towns by his previous name Karl Towns Jr because you're used to it, even though he changed it because he did not want to be identified with his father.
Either way though, I'm not trying to go out of my way to give you shit for it, so apologies if it comes off that way.
Unless it's the Rock wanting to be called Dwayne Johnson. That's not happening.
People that have no relationship with him and associate him as the Olympic athlete they watched referring to him as Bruce when discussing him on some web site he will never read IMO aren't being disrespectful.
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he is NOT a she yet. Operation has not happened. Second of all, even if he did have it removed... he is one ugly bitch who would NEVER make the cover of SI if he was born a she.
SI is now no better than Rolling Stone now.
Jenner is a she. Stop trying to prove a point by calling her him. Between hormone therapy, self identification, and how Jenner lives her life, she's clearly a woman now.
I don't understand the mindset of someone who is trans (as presumably you don't either), and it's something I probably won't ever get. But having said that, I'm accepting of whatever an individual feels or identifies with... so if Jenner identifies as a woman and goes by Caitlyn, I'm not going to call her "him" just to spite her and prove some silly point.
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he is NOT a she yet. Operation has not happened. Second of all, even if he did have it removed... he is one ugly bitch who would NEVER make the cover of SI if he was born a she.
SI is now no better than Rolling Stone now.
Jenner is a she. Stop trying to prove a point by calling her him. Between hormone therapy, self identification, and how Jenner lives her life, she's clearly a woman now.
I don't understand the mindset of someone who is trans (as presumably you don't either), and it's something I probably won't ever get. But having said that, I'm accepting of whatever an individual feels or identifies with... so if Jenner identifies as a woman and goes by Caitlyn, I'm not going to call her "him" just to spite her and prove some silly point.
I miss the BBI margi.
#LIZARDLIVESMATTER
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In comment 12945925 EricJ said:
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he is NOT a she yet. Operation has not happened. Second of all, even if he did have it removed... he is one ugly bitch who would NEVER make the cover of SI if he was born a she.
SI is now no better than Rolling Stone now.
Jenner is a she. Stop trying to prove a point by calling her him. Between hormone therapy, self identification, and how Jenner lives her life, she's clearly a woman now.
I don't understand the mindset of someone who is trans (as presumably you don't either), and it's something I probably won't ever get. But having said that, I'm accepting of whatever an individual feels or identifies with... so if Jenner identifies as a woman and goes by Caitlyn, I'm not going to call her "him" just to spite her and prove some silly point.
So you agree Rachel Dolezal (sp?) is a Black woman?
No, for a couple of reasons:
1) There's no type of physical alteration that she's undertaken to become black (Jenner has already had surgery and hormone therapy, I guess she just didn't, uh, finish the job).
2) I think race and gender are different animals because there isn't as much of a mental division between races as there would be between genders.
I'm not trans, I have no idea what it feels like, but apparently it's an unmistakable deep seeded feeling that you are not the gender you were born as... deep enough that it drives people to remove themselves from their entire lives, jeopardize how society views them, and even kill themselves. I don't know from experience but it seems to go a lot deeper than just "I think I decide I'd rather be a girl!", and that doesn't seem to be as prevalent of a "phenomenon" as people who want to be a different race.
So while I get the comparisons to the "otherkin" (apparently that's the SJW tumblrina term for people who think they are animals) or people want to be another race, there's enough people with gender identity issues that this must be a real thing.
And since it has no personal affect on me, I don't really give a shit what they do as long as it makes them happy and doesn't harm anyone else.
I don't doubt their sincerity, but the sincerity of mentally ill people really doesn't mean much.
There are people who cut off fully functioning limbs because they strongly believe that they were supposed to be crippled. I fail to see any meaningful distinction between that and Caitlyn Jenner.
Many people, like One Hand Jason, arrange “accidents” to help achieve the goal. One dropped an incredibly heavy concrete block on his legs — an attempt to injure himself so bad an amputation would be necessary. But doctors saved the leg. He limps, but it’s not the disability he wanted.
Link - ( New Window )
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In comment 12945925 EricJ said:
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he is NOT a she yet. Operation has not happened. Second of all, even if he did have it removed... he is one ugly bitch who would NEVER make the cover of SI if he was born a she.
SI is now no better than Rolling Stone now.
Jenner is a she. Stop trying to prove a point by calling her him. Between hormone therapy, self identification, and how Jenner lives her life, she's clearly a woman now.
I don't understand the mindset of someone who is trans (as presumably you don't either), and it's something I probably won't ever get. But having said that, I'm accepting of whatever an individual feels or identifies with... so if Jenner identifies as a woman and goes by Caitlyn, I'm not going to call her "him" just to spite her and prove some silly point.
So you agree Rachel Dolezal (sp?) is a Black woman?
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In comment 12946516 Sonic Youth said:
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In comment 12945925 EricJ said:
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he is NOT a she yet. Operation has not happened. Second of all, even if he did have it removed... he is one ugly bitch who would NEVER make the cover of SI if he was born a she.
SI is now no better than Rolling Stone now.
Jenner is a she. Stop trying to prove a point by calling her him. Between hormone therapy, self identification, and how Jenner lives her life, she's clearly a woman now.
I don't understand the mindset of someone who is trans (as presumably you don't either), and it's something I probably won't ever get. But having said that, I'm accepting of whatever an individual feels or identifies with... so if Jenner identifies as a woman and goes by Caitlyn, I'm not going to call her "him" just to spite her and prove some silly point.
So you agree Rachel Dolezal (sp?) is a Black woman?
No, for a couple of reasons:
1) There's no type of physical alteration that she's undertaken to become black (Jenner has already had surgery and hormone therapy, I guess she just didn't, uh, finish the job).
2) I think race and gender are different animals because there isn't as much of a mental division between races as there would be between genders.
I'm not trans, I have no idea what it feels like, but apparently it's an unmistakable deep seeded feeling that you are not the gender you were born as... deep enough that it drives people to remove themselves from their entire lives, jeopardize how society views them, and even kill themselves. I don't know from experience but it seems to go a lot deeper than just "I think I decide I'd rather be a girl!", and that doesn't seem to be as prevalent of a "phenomenon" as people who want to be a different race.
So while I get the comparisons to the "otherkin" (apparently that's the SJW tumblrina term for people who think they are animals) or people want to be another race, there's enough people with gender identity issues that this must be a real thing.
And since it has no personal affect on me, I don't really give a shit what they do as long as it makes them happy and doesn't harm anyone else.
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In comment 12946516 Sonic Youth said:
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In comment 12945925 EricJ said:
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he is NOT a she yet. Operation has not happened. Second of all, even if he did have it removed... he is one ugly bitch who would NEVER make the cover of SI if he was born a she.
SI is now no better than Rolling Stone now.
Jenner is a she. Stop trying to prove a point by calling her him. Between hormone therapy, self identification, and how Jenner lives her life, she's clearly a woman now.
I don't understand the mindset of someone who is trans (as presumably you don't either), and it's something I probably won't ever get. But having said that, I'm accepting of whatever an individual feels or identifies with... so if Jenner identifies as a woman and goes by Caitlyn, I'm not going to call her "him" just to spite her and prove some silly point.
So you agree Rachel Dolezal (sp?) is a Black woman?
Was she really identifying as a Black woman or simply lying?
I believe that is what she claimed.
I say no.
I say no.
Yeah and don't get me started on that Marion Morrison fellow.