Eli Apple Lands On Pro Football Focus 16 Worst Pickss List

Thanks

Pack it in folks!

Why you shouldn't really care about draft grades:

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Bad Moves: 2nd and 3rd round picks were duds: DE Osi Umenyiora and TE Vashante Shicarore should have TV and radio announcers baffled for years. They did not address their OT need.

Walter Football - ( New Window )

also wrote an article about Aaron Rodgers having a "bad game" when he threw 5 tds and 0 picks on mnf. Haven't taken them seriously since

The quote for the link was culled from the article.

how can that player make a worst pick list?

Only because it doesn't match up with preconceived lists on player values.

And my understanding Tampa wanted him as well and felt the Giants was taking Tunsil. The Dolphins wanted him.....and the Steelers had him as the #1 corner....which I would view as more important than off viewpoint

but the more I read about the kid and his family, he seems very easy to root for. Seems overall like a good person. I hope he has a lot of success for the Gmen.

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and you are left wondering, do THESE people do much of the same homework the OTHER folks do? The ones who say that while the pick may have seemed surprising on the surface, it makes sense, and here's why?

is some analysts grade CBs based solely on plays targeted and others on every play. While it is probably true that the other two were better (slightly) on targeted plays, Eli is much better in preventing the QB from even throwing at him. If you take the receiver out of the play that's a win. It will not show up in stats however. It also reduces your INTs etc. that people fall in love with. But it is effective defense.

At the end of the day, it doesn't much matter what anyone thinks. Eli is a Giant and he will either be good or not.

would have picked Hargreaves, but that is certainly a bad conclusion by PFF.

But we liked Floyd too who has a high bust/boom/average aspect.

I'll say this though--with Hargreaves still on the board, they liked Apple better. It wasn't a guess. It wasn't based on ignorance. It's what they believe to be correct.

about reactions like this.
There are tons of people, with direct NFL/NCAA personnel experience and without, and the general consensus was that Hargreaves was the best CB, or second best next to Ramsey.
Reese may be right or he may be wrong by taking height and upside over the level of experience Hargreaves already has.
Does anyone think the Giants got a steal with Apple? Could turn out that way 2-3 years from now, but how will it work in 2016? Since he will be playing. Not everyone has a great feeling about a #10 pick who is not considered "plug and play".

... I only believe the stuff I like. :-)

Such as, they had Sterling Shephard ranked 18th overall, and they had 2nd round grades on Paul Perkins and Jerell Adams. Oh, and if not for his 40 time at the Combine, Darian Thompson may have snuck into the 1st round.

Watching NFLN and PFT grade the draft, two "experts" said that Apple would start opposite Jenkins. Ummm...okay.

With the CB situation I'll leave the decision to Jerry Reese, who has played, coached and scouted the position for years. He wanted the bigger CB -- probably thinking about the larger WRs in the division.

Will make for an interesting grading exercise in 2 or 3 years, when we see how these CB's develop.

Giants have picked their share of busts too, Giants drafted need and Apple was overvalued on the day of the draft @ 10.

Really has no bearing on if Apple becomes a great corner or not, Giants got their guy and now time will tell the tale.

In comment 12946061 Named Later said:

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With the CB situation I'll leave the decision to Jerry Reese, who has played, coached and scouted the position for years. He wanted the bigger CB -- probably thinking about the larger WRs in the division. Will make for an interesting grading exercise in 2 or 3 years, when we see how these CB's develop.

Reese was a coach ?

In comment 12946003 Beezer said:

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and you are left wondering, do THESE people do much of the same homework the OTHER folks do? The ones who say that while the pick may have seemed surprising on the surface, it makes sense, and here's why?

The amazing thing to me is that so many of these people actually make money/earn a living by producing these random bits of whimsy.

about Eli Apple, the more I like the pick. He's only 20 yrs old, he's a football/film junkie who wants and expects to be great, works his ass off and displays an innate confidence without a whiff of the fakeness/insecurity of someone like Norman for example. To me, he seems to be OBJ like for the defense...not saying he's on OBJ's talent level but all the above traits are exactly what make OBJ great as opposed to very good. The first thing he thought of when picked by the Giants was OBJ as he can't wait to practice against the best to improve HIS game....I'll take players like that on my team any day of the week.

In comment 12946068 shabu said:

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In comment 12946061 Named Later said: Quote: With the CB situation I'll leave the decision to Jerry Reese, who has played, coached and scouted the position for years. He wanted the bigger CB -- probably thinking about the larger WRs in the division. Will make for an interesting grading exercise in 2 or 3 years, when we see how these CB's develop. Reese was a coach ?

He was an assistant coach before he became a scout for the Giants.

(instead of 6'3" Sean Smith or other candidates) so that wouldn't suggest a bias against shorter CBs as such.

But the signing of Jenkins in March is an event that changed the landscape between the time of the reported early Giants' interest in Hargreaves and the time of the draft.

Having committed to Jenkins, I suspect the Giants didn't want bookend 5'10" CBs for the future. If they had not signed Jenkins (for whatever reason) and had signed a taller CB (or no CB) in FA instead, then they might have looked at the Hargreaves/Apple decision differently.

Ultimate ceiling has got to be part of a valuation process.

I look at it this way. It is all up to Apple. If he works his ass off, training and in games like Revis back when, (I know, no one worked like Revis back when) he is Revis.

PFF writes an opinion to sell news. Writers got to write something or they go out of business. They pull stuff out of their ass and call it news. They have no clue how the players were analyzed by real professionals rather than other beat writers who are all persuaded by fan mocks and other beat writers who feed off each other by copying each other and modifying their take to appear original.

Apple is a great pick and a great person to have on the team. He will be a mainstay of the Giants deep corner defense for years to come. Shutdown corners are not a dime a dozen, they are a rare find. And Apple will be a shutdown corner.

Giants will have the last laugh. Of that I am certain.

I buy here is the slot argument. But the Giants drafted a future starting CB and in that sense I'm ok with it.

In comment 12945999 Curtis in VA said:

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Almost exactly as they described Apple. "Too young, too raw...."

Hargreaves is the better player right now, Apple has the potential to be the better player down the road. He's bigger, more athletic, and he's only 21.

In comment 12946195 Greg from LI said:

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Hargreaves is the better player right now, Apple has the potential to be the better player down the road. He's bigger, more athletic, and he's only 21.

20

Until August 9th

;-)

In comment 12946040 The Original G Man said:

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... I only believe the stuff I like. :-) Such as, they had Sterling Shephard ranked 18th overall, and they had 2nd round grades on Paul Perkins and Jerell Adams. Oh, and if not for his 40 time at the Combine, Darian Thompson may have snuck into the 1st round.

That is exactly how I feel. It is nice being a fan and having the flexibility to be inconsistent in your logic.

the road when Apple's already played. people have very short memories around here.

is eerily similar to aaron ross, who we picked to play the slot Spags first year here. Ross had never in his life played slot CB and was a complete teardown/rebuild on technique coming from Texas but he played slot day 1.

he went right back to the well w/another big rookie slot CB the next year in T2. all 3 of these guys are similar body types who started in the slot as rookies.

Apple will do the same. Spags will have him sprinting at the QB and being physical

In comment 12946305 area junc said:

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is eerily similar to aaron ross, who we picked to play the slot Spags first year here. Ross had never in his life played slot CB and was a complete teardown/rebuild on technique coming from Texas but he played slot day 1. he went right back to the well w/another big rookie slot CB the next year in T2. all 3 of these guys are similar body types who started in the slot as rookies. Apple will do the same. Spags will have him sprinting at the QB and being physical

One thing that sticks in my craw is the idea that "player A is just like player B from the past". It's asinine to think that people and players are NOT individuals. No one is the same as someone else - different parents, different upbringing, different skill set...the list is endless.

Eli Apple is NOT Aaron Ross. Not that Ross was a bad player and had it not been for his injuries, perhaps he would have excelled even more.

But the fact remains, each player is unique and brings a unique set of skills because of their background, their personal motivation, their athleticism, and a thousand other things.

It's okay to hate on Apple. There are a lot of fans who need to vent negativity so that if a player does not work out, they can slap their chest and proclaim their superior intellect. I know some people on other web sites that call themselves "Giants fans", yet bitch, moan, complain, proclaim players busts before they step on the field and only say something positive when a player becomes a pro bowl star (LT, Strahan, OBJ, etc.). Everyone else sucks and if we had a good GM and coach, we would draft an entire team of the best players in the NFL at every position, win every game by 60 points, and win the Super Bowl every year. Anything less - they bitch, and bitch, and bitch and complain non stop. Those kind of fans aren't fans, they're cancers to the team and are clueless how difficult it is to build a winning team at all.

Those 14 year olds at it again?

In comment 12946101 jcn56 said:

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In comment 12946068 shabu said: Quote: In comment 12946061 Named Later said: Quote: With the CB situation I'll leave the decision to Jerry Reese, who has played, coached and scouted the position for years. He wanted the bigger CB -- probably thinking about the larger WRs in the division. Will make for an interesting grading exercise in 2 or 3 years, when we see how these CB's develop. Reese was a coach ? He was an assistant coach before he became a scout for the Giants.

Where I didn't know that's cool.

In comment 12945968 I Love Clams Casino said:

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Thanks Pack it in folks!

Oh not Pro Football Focus. Now I have to be negative about the Giants and base my view off of people who will look dumb when the Giants make the playoffs

In comment 12946112 Bob in Newburgh said:

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Ultimate ceiling has got to be part of a valuation process. I look at it this way. It is all up to Apple. If he works his ass off, training and in games like Revis back when, (I know, no one worked like Revis back when) he is Revis.

You are all guessing at the future of a player Giants drafted... you have NO iDEA if his ceiling is higher than anyone...

Nor do the Giants, i mean please. I know we all want to stand by our Giants but there is nothing to know until the guy plays.

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In comment 12946428 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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Are you nuts? Except for the fact that Apple is taller, heavier, and four years younger than Ross at the time they were drafted, they're exactly the same!

is Pro Football Focus? Never heard of them and could give a shit what they think.

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I don't think Apple is like ross at all. Ten Ton Hammer : 11:56 am : link : reply

You lack insider status to know this. I bet it is imminent that there will be a report calling Ross and Apple clones.

ETA on that, area junk???

Each was more physical but far less athletic and less fast than Apple.

My concerns with Apple are whether he can be taught to defend without holding, and to find the ball in the air instead of only play the man. He's just a kid, though, so I'm hopeful on both accounts.

Aaron Ross
6004 193
40: 4.54
Bench: 17
3-Cone: 6.67

Terrell Thomas
6004 202
40: 4.45
Bench: 14
3-Cone: 7.07

Ali Apple
6005 199
40: 4.40
Bench: 13
3-Cone: DNP

All 3 came out of college with a reputation as physical, sound tacklers.

Yea, sure, nothing similar about any of them! lmao

To be determined where Apple will play. Don't just assume Apple will go in the slot.

6-1
200 lbs
4.47 40
6.97 3-cone
36" VJ
18 reps

OMG, another "eerily similar" DB! It's like...like...like they're coming out of a Stephen King novel!

outfits like PFF will look at how the draft occurred relative to their predictions and proclaim in regards to the differences that "The pros got it wrong!" rather than ask "How did we get it wrong?"

Insistence on one's cleverness is more marketable and important than actually being correct. There is little room for humility and self-analysis in this business apparently, and thus little room for learning, growth and wisdom too. Which is why I pay equally little attention to PFF and most other "draft experts".

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Tired of these bad grades and negatives. Let's see how he plays.

Sounds like a pornstar.

Hating on PFF is all the craze now a days but its not like they make an unfair point.

They clearly stated Apple isn't a bad player the Giants just passed on better options. And an argument could be made that Hargreaves is a better player and a better fit for now, in the slot.

There were also better talents available in Tunsil and Jack but they had their issues.

For me, I like Apple the prospect. I can live with the pick.. But I would've drafted Tunsil had I been in their shoes. You have to be willing to take gambles from time to time. That was the gamble I would've taken.

Aaron Ross was not a draft to play slot corner. He played LCB. Madison played right until Webster took the right spot away in 2008. Ross missed most of the 2009 season with an injury. TT stepped in and stepped up and kept the job until getting injured himself in 2010.

on obvious star talents like Hargreaves, Tunsil, and Jack for a youngster like Apple.


And ya gotta love the name; made for NY.

In comment 12946509 area junc said:

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Aaron Ross 6004 193 40: 4.54 Bench: 17 3-Cone: 6.67 Terrell Thomas 6004 202 40: 4.45 Bench: 14 3-Cone: 7.07 Ali Apple 6005 199 40: 4.40 Bench: 13 3-Cone: DNP All 3 came out of college with a reputation as physical, sound tacklers. Yea, sure, nothing similar about any of them! lmao

On film Apple's game does remind me of TT pre injury and that would be a good thing. I don't see the Ross comp at all. Apple is a 4.40 guy, Ross had no long speed at all.

Just how do they know?

Can you rent that crystal ball?

they'd be getting a bunch of love on this thread.