NFT: E-Cigarettes to be Subject to Sweeping Federal Rules

These things have become too popular - for smokers looking to quit I can understand taking some risks, but it seems like nonsmokers are taking to them, and with no regulation on what goes into them who knows what they're exposing themselves to.

And indisputably less dangerous than smoking, so yeah, let's make it next to impossible to bring them to market!

Your tax dollars at work.

but in pure form doesn't post the significant health risks associated with 'tobacco'. The chemicals used to process the leaf for cigarette manufacture should in no way be confused with regulations for e-cigs. This is one more way to demonize and scare people to raise money for politicians re-elections.

E-cig was extremely helpful in quitting smoking, I couldn't have done it without them.



But I'm in the minority that I used it to quit smoking, and then stopped using it, like a nicotine patch, you don't just keep wearing the patch forever.



I also didn't have one of those giant boxes where you breath out huge clouds of smoke, or do it in public places, I still treated it like smoking a cigarette.

the same folks who want to decriminalize weed (not that I disagree with that) want to subject vaping to all manner of regulation.

risk of using e-cigarettes at high voltages. The high voltage releases more formaldehyde from the solution (if I remember the levels measured were 10 times that of one traditional cigarette).

Of course formaldehyde is only one of the cocktail of nasties in a traditional cigarette.

and information potential benefits, harms, and risks should be broadly disseminated.

Beyond that, I'm real good with buyer beware and little more. The main argument on smoking itself has circumvented the personal choice and responsibility part to second-hand exposure. My limited knowledge of e-cigs is that the same argument is not applicable and people just go with the reflexive evil mindset. I say smoke 'em, if you got 'em.

A local kid had an e-cig explode in his face yesterday. Same thing happened to the brother of a friend of mine. This guy had a good part of his ear and jaw blown off. Certainly more of a battery issue but still should be dealt with.

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“At last, the Food and Drug Administration will have basic authority to make science-based decisions that will protect our nation’s youth and the public health from all tobacco products, including e-cigarettes, cigars and hookah,” Harold P. Wimmer, president of the American Lung Association, said in a statement.

There is no tobacco in e-cigarettes. None, zip, zero, zilch.

are small businesses, rarely juggernauts and possessing little clout, and so the reflexive instinct is to crush them with regulation.

Everywhere you look in Richmond there are vape shops.

but the handful with which I am familiar are run on a part-time basis by people who are dabbling in entrepreneurship. Generally speaking that's a tendency that should be encouraged. Increasingly their volume of paperwork by a couple orders of magnitude seems likely to pull in the opposite direction.

something you are vaporizing into your lungs should be regulated.

(which aren't regulated but should be, IMO).

All too often, you're sold one thing, and you're really getting something entirely different, with all sorts of additives/chemicals that you had no idea were part of the product. I'm all for buyer beware, but there should be a mechanism to prevent a seller from misrepresenting what he's selling me. If I want to ingest yak bone dust, so be it - but the seller shouldn't be able to bury it in a dozen other chemicals that I'm unaware of.

In comment 12946364 Greg from LI said:

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Quote: “At last, the Food and Drug Administration will have basic authority to make science-based decisions that will protect our nation’s youth and the public health from all tobacco products, including e-cigarettes, cigars and hookah,” Harold P. Wimmer, president of the American Lung Association, said in a statement. There is no tobacco in e-cigarettes. None, zip, zero, zilch.

I'm sure they know that. Stigmatization is a huge part of the overall strategy and here it's an attempt to muddy everything to keep attention on the great evil.

They acknowledged that vaping is not risk-free, but said "•However, the hazard to health arising from long-term vapour inhalation from the e-cigarettes available today is unlikely to exceed 5% of the harm from smoking tobacco."
Link - ( New Window )

Requiring that they account for the ingredients is reasonable. However requiring they test any possible long term outcomes (scientific data) is typical government overreach on small business.

Reminds me of the regulations a few years back that because of China exporting toys with high lead content they passed a law requiring ingredient testing from all businesses making any children's toys or clothing which killed off a lot of small business that handmade things in this country and weren't a lead problem to begin with.

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Perhaps the biggest proposed change would require producers of cigars and e-cigarettes to register with the F.D.A., provide the agency with a detailed accounting of their products’ ingredients, and disclose their manufacturing processes and scientific data

now use them. Not aware of one person who picked it up for a new hobby. I'm sure that may change over time, and they do taste a lot better than cigs, so I could see people starting with them, but they are a god send.

And it is so easy to reduce the nicotine dosage. i personally think it is one of the greatest (non-medical) inventions of my lifetime.

And it seems the medical community in the UK agrees.
Link - ( New Window )

big tobacco, with the buckets of money they throw at politicians via their lobbyists, wins again. I don't want to hear about the "health implications." There are plenty of doctors who have researched this subject, and plenty of trials undertaken that prove that ecigarettes are SUBSTANTIALLY less harmful than tobacco. This is all about money, folks. Not about your health, my health or the health of the hipsters. Money.

E-cigs are way safer for smokers than traditional cigarettes. The Tobacco lobby is the ones pressing for all this legislation against them. Sure E-cigs should be regulated in some similar fashion to that of cigarettes, especially marketing wise i suppose. However, e-cigs are growing and are becoming the most effective cessation device for current tobacco smokers.

that they are losing because people quit smoking. That's what it's about, that is always what it is about.

In comment 12946438 NorwoodWideRight said:

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big tobacco, with the buckets of money they throw at politicians via their lobbyists, wins again. I don't want to hear about the "health implications." There are plenty of doctors who have researched this subject, and plenty of trials undertaken that prove that ecigarettes are SUBSTANTIALLY less harmful than tobacco. This is all about money, folks. Not about your health, my health or the health of the hipsters. Money.

Is Big Tobacco not involved in selling e-cigs? And why would the supportive quotes and proponents be the head of the American Lung Association? Are they in cahoots with Big Tobacco?

Ima wave the bloody shirt again, but the notion that a kid at 29 Palms or Irwin can go to battle but he can't buy a pack of smokes is fucking asinine.

but wtf is up with this crusade against E-Cigs? Politicians looking to ban them and harm the industry, when they are clearly better than cigarettes.

In comment 12946334 Dunedin81 said:

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the same folks who want to decriminalize weed (not that I disagree with that) want to subject vaping to all manner of regulation.

You notice that too.

In comment 12946527 Dunedin81 said:

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Ima wave the bloody shirt again, but the notion that a kid at 29 Palms or Irwin can go to battle but he can't buy a pack of smokes is fucking asinine.

Or have a beer while on liberty, even in countries where the law allows it.

e-cigarette market.

It's health crusaders who can't view the risk associated with these products on a continuum - e-cigs are clearly less harmful than regular cigarettes, so let's recognize that some percentage of adults are going to switch (but not quit), and society is more healthy on the margin.

Nope, tobacco and smoking are evil and must be regulated on the path to being eradicated....

Nothing. Because my lungs need less to filter rather than more.

Big tobacco doesn't have a corner on the market. Because it's largely unregulated, there is too much competition eating into their profits. Why do you think there's 1-2 vapor shops in every town? Regulation would benefit big tobacco, not harm them. Small companies and manufacturers, of which there are literally thousands, can't afford the application, licensing and testing fees to comply. By backing this legislation, they effectively price out the competition.

for example, there are multiple convenience stores in each town selling cigarettes - the bulk of the profit pool lies with the manufacturer, not the retailer.

Why don't they just get sold in convenience stores?

And liquid on the market is not the tobacco companies.

has a 35% share of the market, blu (owned by Imperial) has another 25%. Logic has a 20% share, and they are owned by Japan Tobacco...Altria has some small share (5%) with MarkTen.

The rest is NJoy and smaller manufacturers - but the fact remains that "Big Tobacco" dominates the e-cigarette market.

They don't know if e cigs are healthier because no one knows what's in them. Sure there's nicotine, but there's other things as well and no one knows what. According to them the early studies done in 2009 show some, but not all, brands to contain carcinogens. If they are safe then great and leave them be, but if not then you have another thread

As of 2015, big tobacco had only 35% market share. It's been in a steady state of decline since 2013. No way do they control that much if the market. Either that's old data or flawed.

In comment 12946632 Rob in CT/NYC said:

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has a 35% share of the market, blu (owned by Imperial) has another 25%. Logic has a 20% share, and they are owned by Japan Tobacco...Altria has some small share (5%) with MarkTen. The rest is NJoy and smaller manufacturers - but the fact remains that "Big Tobacco" dominates the e-cigarette market.

Are e-cigarettes and vapes considered the same thing?

It accounts only for self contained and disposable (cartridge based) ecigarettes, which are no longer popular, and haven't been for years.

Vapor shops don't sell those. Only convenience stores and gas stations do.

I'm telling you, they are heavily losing out on market share and want this regulation to pass.

as lobbyists?

In comment 12946618 ron mexico said:

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Why don't they just get sold in convenience stores?

It's pretty much entered the realm of hobbyists. People build their own devices, tanks, coils, modify their setups, create their own juices... People also like to sample out different flavors before they buy them. A lot of these stores are also part lounges, where people take a gander at the list of flavors, try 3-4 out, buy some, shoot the shit, alter their devices, and swap with others.

I worked at Guitar Center when I was younger and I swear it seems like it's almost the same thing.

In comment 12946675 Bill L said:

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as lobbyists?

So you're saying they both can't back this legislation and have separate agendas? Dude, that's some seriously naive thinking. They also had a hand in sqashing the snus movement prior to the ecigarette movement, and letters and memos released prove that's a fact.

Either you guys are misinformed about what's really going in in the industry or naive.

which may be causing the confusion - e-cigarettes, for which my data is correct as of the last quarterly reports for the tobacco manufacturers (I think Vuse was closer to 40% share of market), are one, but there things like personal vaporizers and vapors which is much more fragmented.

In comment 12946690 Rob in CT/NYC said:

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which may be causing the confusion - e-cigarettes, for which my data is correct as of the last quarterly reports for the tobacco manufacturers (I think Vuse was closer to 40% share of market), are one, but there things like personal vaporizers and vapors which is much more fragmented.

This legislation applies to both. The latter market you mention is the bigger of the two.

In comment 12946364 Greg from LI said:

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Quote: “At last, the Food and Drug Administration will have basic authority to make science-based decisions that will protect our nation’s youth and the public health from all tobacco products, including e-cigarettes, cigars and hookah,” Harold P. Wimmer, president of the American Lung Association, said in a statement. There is no tobacco in e-cigarettes. None, zip, zero, zilch.

You should be happy they are regulating them as tobacco products. The original plan was to regulate them as drug delivery devices, which would have a much higher safety standard.

In comment 12946639 Larry in Pencilvania said:

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They don't know if e cigs are healthier because no one knows what's in them. Sure there's nicotine, but there's other things as well and no one knows what. According to them the early studies done in 2009 show some, but not all, brands to contain carcinogens. If they are safe then great and leave them be, but if not then you have another thread

Read the RCP report. The American Lung Association knows where its bread is buttered.

I'm headed to Mobile AL for a few days. Then a day on the north shore of Lake Ponchartrain and a day in New Orleans. I've been to a few of the well known french quarter stops but if anybody knows of any less famous spots I might try I'd appreciate it.

sorry don't know how I did that

by Dr. Michael Siegel, Professor in the Department of Community Health Sciences.
FDA E-Cigarette Deeming Regulations are a Disaster for Public Health - ( New Window )

Still don't think the tobacco companies won't profit from this (twofold, mind you -- they will be the only ones left standing offering more expensive ecigarette solutions while driving others back to smoking)?

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Without question, the FDA has done a huge favor for the continued strength of cigarette consumption in the United States. It has blocked what would otherwise been a wonderful opportunity to develop a strong competitor to tobacco cigarettes that could have eventually eroded the cigarette market by nearly 50%, resulting in what could have been literally a public health miracle in terms of the number of lives saves and diseases and suffering averted.

At many genes related to the immune system. It could be that the health effects are different from cigs and not currently known.