stop making sense, from the tone of these posts, no one is interested in common sense.
Unlike the mob, I do not know what or when Joe Paterno knew what. I do know, that for those so inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, some evidence was put forward to put at least some doubt on his involvement.
However, when good people, who happened to be Penn State grads, of which I am not, were not in a rush to judge him, presented some of these arguments, people like those on this thread, screamed "cult" and shouted them down.
I would suggest if anyone is acting unreasonably, it is those who would not even allow defenders of Paterno to raise these doubts, but would immediately accept that an insurance company coming up with support showing Paterno did know about the abuse, in an attempt to save 60 million dollars is a fact............. are acting people who would destroy innocent people in the name of justice.
They are carpet bombers.
Now I will sit back and watch as they will scream me down, call me names......and show their ignorance in the process.
of the 50s, 60s and 70s when people didn't "use the F word". Nothing this terrible could have ever happened then. Sure, there was institutional discrimination against black people, gay people, women, etc. but men committing crimes they've been committing for thousands of years? No, never.
I think I prefer today's potty-mouthed, girls gone wild, twitterific, etc. world. If that's the price of the transparency that helped to expose and subsequently bury much of the bullshit that passed for self-evident in the past, then it's well worth it.
But I know several people who knew Joe. I am 75 and he was older. I suspect this is hard for many of you to understand, but in the world that we grew up in the illusion was that this didn't happen. This was a world where the F word wasn't spoken. If we heard about things like that it was in another world and it's hard to imagine a football type doing anything so hideous. Maybe the Nazi's but not a red blooded American.
Mock me all you want but Joe was a good ten years older and I think he just couldn't believe it. And I think if he had he would have done something. The demonizing that's going on here and the assumption that any decent man wouldn't have done something seems excessive.
If it can be proved that he know and did nothing to protect his program then I'll light the torches, but until then I simply choose not to believe.
I believe this. I am from Connecticut and brought up Roman Catholic my greater family ( cousins etc ) were always tight with the Church and 2 of my cousins were messed around with by Priests...
Talking to my parents and a couple other relatives about it, they all said the same thing...
It was so hard to believe it was true... no one in the family would believe it.
and letting things play out but I think suggesting that the insurance company committed perjury is a far bigger reach than suggesting Paterno knew longer than previously though given everything we know to date.
It's borderline tinfoil-hattish in its own right. $60 million (less whatever reinsurance or other risk mitigation they have in place) is a lot to pay out but it's nowhere near as damaging as committing perjury - a criminal act - would be. If they put that forward, you can bet it's legit.
and even the non-malignant ones who argue "we can't impose the death penalty because it would impact jobs" ignore the central point of this whole tragedy, which is that it was swept under the rug for precisely this reason, because football was too big, too important, too economically significant to prioritize what should have been prioritized. It's an educational institution and football is a game.
Now if JoePa knew this in '76 it goes way beyond sparing the football program embarrassment. Even firing him without explaining why, just seven or so years into his time with the University, would not have crippled either the program or the football team. It might have allowed this to keep going on, at another college or a high school or wherever he could have gotten a job, but to provide him a quarter-century or more of opportunity to molest kids is something else entirely.
anything for or against Penn State - but if this "news" was really the reason that finally got people to realize that Paterno knew, you really have to be kidding yourself. The guy ran that city for 50 years. He knew everything.
So while it's nice to "think of the old days" and say things like "it was a different time back then..." it's complete and utter bullshit. The guy knew about a sexual predator preying on young boys for 30+ years, and didn't utter a peep about it. What else is there to say?
And I never directly experienced, saw or heard of anything related to sexual abuse. In Catholic school, I and my peers used to spend a lot of time alone with our priests and there was never anything inappropriate, none of my fellow altar boys ever seemed weird or anything like that. It was overall a pretty positive experience.
It was a massive shock to me, too, when all the revelations came out. It still is but you have to go where the evidence leads you.
This is not the kind of situation where you say, "That kind of thing doesn't happen here" and keep it under wraps. Those kids needed someone to stand for them and this supposed leader of young men was more concerned with his legacy.
How can you see that happening with your own eyes, and just turn and walk away? And then, instead of calling the police, you go talk it over with your dad and then Joe Paterno?
you have every right to your opinion but those that continue to defend or "wait until all the facts come out" are going to look even dumber, when more facts actually start coming out. I'd start to pump the brakes a little bit.
Let's believe that he knew nothing of the 1998 investigation (Sandusky retired in 1999, and let's assume that was a happy coincidence).
Let's assume that he doesn't hear of the 2000 incident involving the custodian catching Sandusky with a young boy.
Without question, he is made aware in 2002 by McQueary. No report is made to the state police or any child protective agency. Sandusky loses his keys to the PSU facilities. Sandusky's charity is informed.
The investigation into Sandusky begins in '09 and charges filed in '11.
Also note that Paterno was business partners with several board members of the Second Mile charity, engaging in real estate development projects between '02 and '09.
At a minimum, starting in 2002, Joe Paterno displayed one or more of the following:
1. Mind-numbing ignorance
2. Indifference to a predator
3. Greed
4. Conspiracy
Bottom line, there is no good outcome for Joe Paterno who even admitted as he was dying from cancer that he wished he had done more.
I don't have an opinion, as stated I don't know what he knew or didn't know, or when.
If you are correct, and more and more evidence comes out that he knew of the atrocities of Sandusky, and did nothing......you will never again here me offer any suggestion in defense of him.
As to the older poster who shared that at that age the thought of what Sandusky did was inconceivable: My dad was 87 years old when he died, Italian like Paterno.....I know there is some truth in what the poster suggested, at least where my dad was concerned.,
The act of raping a child, of the same sex, did not compute. Anyone can mock this idea all they want, but this was a great generation, my dad's life is an incredible story, from poverty, WWII, to huge success in his life....they saw the world differently, some things were taboo to even speak of. It's just the way it was.
Ryann I don't know if your post was sincere or condescending, I am a grown man, successful in my own life. I am educated, deal with many people, and am well respected in my community and in my profession. It is not lightly that I make statements about sensitive issues such as the Penn State Scandal.
But in my world people do not speak with the crassness and ignorance that you see so often on BBI. I believe my point wasn't so much in defense of Paterno as it was a condemnation of the mob mentality often seen on this site.
epitomizes the complete lack of clarity that runs rampant throughout the Penn State cult:
"Unlike the mob, I do not know what or when Joe Paterno knew what. I do know, that for those so inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, some evidence was put forward to put at least some doubt on his involvement."
Bullshit. He knew and did nothing about it. Nothing. How long he knew - and if the latest reports are true - is the question and it could have been DECADES.
Instead of "giving him the benefit of the doubt" - which is completely ridiculous considering that all of this happened on his watch and he had knowledge of Sandusky's actions - you should be pissed off that your hero basically allowed this to happen ruining the lives of dozens of young people and families.
Shame on you for deciding to wear blinders where you see fit as long as it benefits your beloved Penn State. Shame on you.
I don't have an opinion, as stated I don't know what he knew or didn't know, or when.
If you are correct, and more and more evidence comes out that he knew of the atrocities of Sandusky, and did nothing......you will never again here me offer any suggestion in defense of him.
As to the older poster who shared that at that age the thought of what Sandusky did was inconceivable: My dad was 87 years old when he died, Italian like Paterno.....I know there is some truth in what the poster suggested, at least where my dad was concerned.,
The act of raping a child, of the same sex, did not compute. Anyone can mock this idea all they want, but this was a great generation, my dad's life is an incredible story, from poverty, WWII, to huge success in his life....they saw the world differently, some things were taboo to even speak of. It's just the way it was.
Ryann I don't know if your post was sincere or condescending, I am a grown man, successful in my own life. I am educated, deal with many people, and am well respected in my community and in my profession. It is not lightly that I make statements about sensitive issues such as the Penn State Scandal.
But in my world people do not speak with the crassness and ignorance that you see so often on BBI. I believe my point wasn't so much in defense of Paterno as it was a condemnation of the mob mentality often seen on this site.
But thanks for your words of caution.
, I think.
Joe I apppreciate your post, I understand your position.
But you being a nice guy, educated, and by all means well respected in your community, has absolutely zero to do with the fact that Joe Paterno protected a child rapist for many many years. While I appreciate your words and I'm not sure how they are relevant.
My post wasn't meant to be condescending. If me saying that people are basically too embarrassed or blind or stupid to realize the situation at hand is condescending to you, then so be it. I understand that.
on what a scumbag Paterno turned out to be. How much evidence do you need? It's indisputable that he knew enough to notify his "superiors" and never follow up on it, while allowing a predator to roam free on his campus. He also squelched the administration's plan to notify the Department of Welfare and the head of Sandusky's charity - actions that would've blown the lid off the whole thing. All to protect a college football program at the expense of innocent kids.
I think the one that angers me the most is when they yammer on about how Paterno "did what he was obligated to do". Hey, he (belatedly) mentioned this to Tim Curley - what the hell else do you want him to do? He's not a cop!
For seven more years, even as they forbade Sandusky from bringing boys to the State College campus, they let him use the facilities at a satellite campus to hold summer camps for the Second Mile.
And justice really can't be served it is best for people to remember and forever bring this grave injustice up to these PSU fans. It should be an embarrassment forever to be associated with that fucking school.
Forgiving or forgetting this is a fucking joke, the school should always be lambasted for this tragedy until even the most fervent, arrogant, and ignorant PSU fanboy accept that this is a gross embarrassment and there is no defense for anyone remotely involved. Until then the taunting and hate should continue for perpetuity.
Everyone outside of the College Station fanatics know he knew about this for awhile. Its time to let it go and hope a lesson has been learned by all involved
simply believe what they want to believe. You can argue with them until the end of time, present mountains of evidence, and you won't change their minds.
Paterno's defenders are of the same ilk as those that believe the moon landings were a hoax. No amount of logic will budge them.
If Joe Paterno was a teacher or the local trash collector
I get nauseous every time I ride SEPTA and I see an add for some Joe Paterno charity run. I always think how can the advertise something for him with all the crap that went down
knowledge of the abuse should be jailed. The "Paterno Legacy" on campus should be one of preventing abuse and helping those who were abused.
However, I have mixed feelings about ending the football program. I believe it punishes the wrong people.
There is a cult of denial but that's hardly unusual. My neighbor is a great guy, a PSU alum and a local attorney. I went to a Halloween party 2 years ago and he was dressed as Paterno. A woman asked about his costume and he explained it to her. She said something to the effect of "isn't he the pervert?" Of course, he defended Paterno.
I think all the coaches names should be known. Alert TMZ and let their posse follow them around non-stop. Bring it all to light b/c none of them deserve a pass.
that program needs a figurative bullet to the back of the head
All of this shit was about protecting the program. Joe Paterno, may he be burning in hell right now, and the rest of the staff abetted child rape for almost FOUR DECADES in the name of winning college football games. I don't give a shit what supposed collateral damage is unfairly caused by killing the program - these people are fucking sick, and they need to be taught a lesson. So some players are going to have to play for other schools. Boo hoo.
I can't believe how long this shit has been going on for
schools slipping envelopes of cash in kids' pockets, buying them a car, getting them a no-show job....and spending decades protecting a child rapist on the staff from being caught.
I pray that these young boys manage to have a life
Man I'm wrong a lot lately. I must be getting into BB'56 and dorgan territory.....
Unlike the mob, I do not know what or when Joe Paterno knew what. I do know, that for those so inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, some evidence was put forward to put at least some doubt on his involvement.
However, when good people, who happened to be Penn State grads, of which I am not, were not in a rush to judge him, presented some of these arguments, people like those on this thread, screamed "cult" and shouted them down.
I would suggest if anyone is acting unreasonably, it is those who would not even allow defenders of Paterno to raise these doubts, but would immediately accept that an insurance company coming up with support showing Paterno did know about the abuse, in an attempt to save 60 million dollars is a fact............. are acting people who would destroy innocent people in the name of justice.
They are carpet bombers.
Now I will sit back and watch as they will scream me down, call me names......and show their ignorance in the process.
I think I prefer today's potty-mouthed, girls gone wild, twitterific, etc. world. If that's the price of the transparency that helped to expose and subsequently bury much of the bullshit that passed for self-evident in the past, then it's well worth it.
Mock me all you want but Joe was a good ten years older and I think he just couldn't believe it. And I think if he had he would have done something. The demonizing that's going on here and the assumption that any decent man wouldn't have done something seems excessive.
If it can be proved that he know and did nothing to protect his program then I'll light the torches, but until then I simply choose not to believe.
I believe this. I am from Connecticut and brought up Roman Catholic my greater family ( cousins etc ) were always tight with the Church and 2 of my cousins were messed around with by Priests...
Talking to my parents and a couple other relatives about it, they all said the same thing...
It was so hard to believe it was true... no one in the family would believe it.
It's borderline tinfoil-hattish in its own right. $60 million (less whatever reinsurance or other risk mitigation they have in place) is a lot to pay out but it's nowhere near as damaging as committing perjury - a criminal act - would be. If they put that forward, you can bet it's legit.
Now if JoePa knew this in '76 it goes way beyond sparing the football program embarrassment. Even firing him without explaining why, just seven or so years into his time with the University, would not have crippled either the program or the football team. It might have allowed this to keep going on, at another college or a high school or wherever he could have gotten a job, but to provide him a quarter-century or more of opportunity to molest kids is something else entirely.
So while it's nice to "think of the old days" and say things like "it was a different time back then..." it's complete and utter bullshit. The guy knew about a sexual predator preying on young boys for 30+ years, and didn't utter a peep about it. What else is there to say?
It was a massive shock to me, too, when all the revelations came out. It still is but you have to go where the evidence leads you.
Unlike the mob, I do not know what or when Joe Paterno knew what.
Haha. "Look, maybe he did know, maybe he didn't...we'll never know..."
Please, spare us.
Fuck Joe Paterno and his family.
color me not surprised.
paterno's seat in hell just got lower and warmer, but who really cares?? wish he was still alive so we could do something about it...
Never, ever heard of that school..Is that like New York University in Texas?
Let's believe that he knew nothing of the 1998 investigation (Sandusky retired in 1999, and let's assume that was a happy coincidence).
Let's assume that he doesn't hear of the 2000 incident involving the custodian catching Sandusky with a young boy.
Without question, he is made aware in 2002 by McQueary. No report is made to the state police or any child protective agency. Sandusky loses his keys to the PSU facilities. Sandusky's charity is informed.
The investigation into Sandusky begins in '09 and charges filed in '11.
Also note that Paterno was business partners with several board members of the Second Mile charity, engaging in real estate development projects between '02 and '09.
At a minimum, starting in 2002, Joe Paterno displayed one or more of the following:
1. Mind-numbing ignorance
2. Indifference to a predator
3. Greed
4. Conspiracy
Bottom line, there is no good outcome for Joe Paterno who even admitted as he was dying from cancer that he wished he had done more.
There is also a California University of Pennsylvania
If you are correct, and more and more evidence comes out that he knew of the atrocities of Sandusky, and did nothing......you will never again here me offer any suggestion in defense of him.
As to the older poster who shared that at that age the thought of what Sandusky did was inconceivable: My dad was 87 years old when he died, Italian like Paterno.....I know there is some truth in what the poster suggested, at least where my dad was concerned.,
The act of raping a child, of the same sex, did not compute. Anyone can mock this idea all they want, but this was a great generation, my dad's life is an incredible story, from poverty, WWII, to huge success in his life....they saw the world differently, some things were taboo to even speak of. It's just the way it was.
Ryann I don't know if your post was sincere or condescending, I am a grown man, successful in my own life. I am educated, deal with many people, and am well respected in my community and in my profession. It is not lightly that I make statements about sensitive issues such as the Penn State Scandal.
But in my world people do not speak with the crassness and ignorance that you see so often on BBI. I believe my point wasn't so much in defense of Paterno as it was a condemnation of the mob mentality often seen on this site.
But thanks for your words of caution.
, I think.
"Unlike the mob, I do not know what or when Joe Paterno knew what. I do know, that for those so inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, some evidence was put forward to put at least some doubt on his involvement."
Bullshit. He knew and did nothing about it. Nothing. How long he knew - and if the latest reports are true - is the question and it could have been DECADES.
Instead of "giving him the benefit of the doubt" - which is completely ridiculous considering that all of this happened on his watch and he had knowledge of Sandusky's actions - you should be pissed off that your hero basically allowed this to happen ruining the lives of dozens of young people and families.
Shame on you for deciding to wear blinders where you see fit as long as it benefits your beloved Penn State. Shame on you.
He knew, did the minimum, never followed up and never asked a question and for 7 years boys lives were destroyed.
That is the absolute best case you make for Joe Paterno.
If you are correct, and more and more evidence comes out that he knew of the atrocities of Sandusky, and did nothing......you will never again here me offer any suggestion in defense of him.
As to the older poster who shared that at that age the thought of what Sandusky did was inconceivable: My dad was 87 years old when he died, Italian like Paterno.....I know there is some truth in what the poster suggested, at least where my dad was concerned.,
The act of raping a child, of the same sex, did not compute. Anyone can mock this idea all they want, but this was a great generation, my dad's life is an incredible story, from poverty, WWII, to huge success in his life....they saw the world differently, some things were taboo to even speak of. It's just the way it was.
Ryann I don't know if your post was sincere or condescending, I am a grown man, successful in my own life. I am educated, deal with many people, and am well respected in my community and in my profession. It is not lightly that I make statements about sensitive issues such as the Penn State Scandal.
But in my world people do not speak with the crassness and ignorance that you see so often on BBI. I believe my point wasn't so much in defense of Paterno as it was a condemnation of the mob mentality often seen on this site.
But thanks for your words of caution.
, I think.
Joe I apppreciate your post, I understand your position.
But you being a nice guy, educated, and by all means well respected in your community, has absolutely zero to do with the fact that Joe Paterno protected a child rapist for many many years. While I appreciate your words and I'm not sure how they are relevant.
My post wasn't meant to be condescending. If me saying that people are basically too embarrassed or blind or stupid to realize the situation at hand is condescending to you, then so be it. I understand that.
For seven more years, even as they forbade Sandusky from bringing boys to the State College campus, they let him use the facilities at a satellite campus to hold summer camps for the Second Mile.
Fuck Joe Paterno, and Fuck PEDO STATE.
It blows my mind to see people still fully immersed as football fans of that school.
It's BONKERS!
Forgiving or forgetting this is a fucking joke, the school should always be lambasted for this tragedy until even the most fervent, arrogant, and ignorant PSU fanboy accept that this is a gross embarrassment and there is no defense for anyone remotely involved. Until then the taunting and hate should continue for perpetuity.
And he owned slaves.
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Paterno's defenders are of the same ilk as those that believe the moon landings were a hoax. No amount of logic will budge them.
That's his legacy.
Lol
I hope you Joe Pa supporters are proud of yourselves. I hope your dreams are forever haunted by the sounds of children being raped.
I sure look forward to Franco Harris embarrassing himself some more.
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Allegedly! Allegedly! He made thriller! He couldn't have done that!
Also chris brown is a great dancer so he didn't hit Rihanna.
Lol
However, I have mixed feelings about ending the football program. I believe it punishes the wrong people.
There is a cult of denial but that's hardly unusual. My neighbor is a great guy, a PSU alum and a local attorney. I went to a Halloween party 2 years ago and he was dressed as Paterno. A woman asked about his costume and he explained it to her. She said something to the effect of "isn't he the pervert?" Of course, he defended Paterno.
Is that true?
Quote:
that as many as 6 PSU coaches witnessed the molestation and nobody fucking did anything.
Is that true?
How do these cultists sleep at night?
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Not young boys lives destroyed by a cult skeletons, that's just penn state..