What's the Deal with Orleans Darkwa?

My impression of him is he is a very tough runner who isn't very tough.

What I mean by that is he is punishing runner for a few snaps, but he seems to get nicked up pretty quickly.

Bad luck?

Regardless, he has an uphill fight on his hands to make this team. Unlike most on BBI, I think the organization is still higher on Andre Williams.

In comment 12947491 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

My impression of him is he is a very tough runner who isn't very tough. What I mean by that is he is punishing runner for a few snaps, but he seems to get nicked up pretty quickly. Bad luck? Regardless, he has an uphill fight on his hands to make this team. Unlike most on BBI, I think the organization is still higher on Andre Williams.

I think I recall you mentioning that before, but I believe I've also seen it elsewhere. Too bad if he's a talented guy betrayed by his own body. Some smaller backs seem to know how to play the game hard and still stay healthy, evidently others don't. Tiki was pretty small when he started, though I'd bet he was a lot heavier than listed after Coughlin got here. Tony Dorsett was another smaller back who took care of himself, only taking hits when the situation demanded. But Walter Payton was no bigger than Darkwa and ran hard all the time, finishing every run with a pop. Would be nice if the coaches could think of a way to allow him to stay healthy, and still be effective.

He's never had a heavy workload here. Coaches can't do more than that.

Look, we don't want to use 4 or 5 running backs on gameday regardless. It's going to be Jennings, Vereen, and probably Perkins as the big 3 rotation.

But I'm not sure they're done with Williams yet. And if Rainey can stick as returner, even he might get dressed if another back is hurting.

if Perkins picks things up quick enough.

But yes, his carries/injuries ratio is not what it needs to be to make it in the NFL. Shame, because as you say, he looks pretty good when he's not getting hurt.

In comment 12947512 Milton said:

Quote:

But yes, his carries/injuries ratio is not what it needs to be to make it in the NFL. Shame, because as you say, he looks pretty good when he's not getting hurt.

Ah, just googled Darkwa, and now I see that S&C stands for either strength and conditioning or strippers and coke.

In comment 12947509 chris r said:

Quote:

if Perkins picks things up quick enough.

Sorry, but I'll have to disagree. I think Vareen is the only back that is safe. He's too versatile to be at risk.

In comment 12947509 chris r said:

Quote:

if Perkins picks things up quick enough.

Lol. Good one.

I just hope we finalized that Johnson is the FB. A real physical run blocker on this team that has been missing since Hedgecock. No more whiffs by FBs.

Defensive end

In comment 12947522 chopperhatch said:

Quote:

In comment 12947509 chris r said: Quote: if Perkins picks things up quick enough. Lol. Good one.

Try mounting an argument if you're capable.

In comment 12947521 Bleedin Blue said:

Quote:

In comment 12947509 chris r said: Quote: if Perkins picks things up quick enough. Sorry, but I'll have to disagree. I think Vareen is the only back that is safe. He's too versatile to be at risk.

He's not versatile. He's a passing down player only.

Vereen was second on the team with receptions last year but if you wanna cut him, cool.

I don't get what's to loses by trying to let Vereen run the ball. We ran Andre Williams into the line for 2 yards so many times last season, would it kill us to see if Vereen could actually run the ball?

I get that he probably looks like shit running it in practice being that neither the Pats nor Giants ever really fed him the ball as a runner for as long as he's been in the league, but it couldn't have gotten any worse than last year.

Either way, thank god we drafted Perkins.

In comment 12947540 Route 9 said:

Quote:

Vereen was second on the team with receptions last year but if you wanna cut him, cool.

I said I could see him cut not that I want him to be cut. Being second best on the Giants last year isn't a big achievement - see Randle, Reuben who is no longer on the team.

Meh. I don’t like the comparison to Randle, he was so disappointing in his career as a whole, the inconsistency and had many opportunities to be the a viable number two with Cruz out for nearly 2 years. Vereen on the other hand, was productive enough for his role in one year and even topped his numbers in New England. I think the Giants just had enough of Randle’s shit. That's why he is gone and never saw a second contract.

I do hope Perkins is RB2

In comment 12947544 Route 9 said:

Quote:

Meh. I don’t like the comparison to Randle, he was so disappointing in his career as a whole, the inconsistency and had many opportunities to be the a viable number two with Cruz out for nearly 2 years. Vereen on the other hand, was productive enough for his role in one year and even topped his numbers in New England. I think the Giants just had enough of Randle’s shit. That's why he is gone and never saw a second contract.

The point is him being second in receptions isn't a great endorsement because the Giants had no receiving talent after OBJ.

Anyway, he's a good receiver but he's not very explosive and isn't a good runner.

In comment 12947546 Route 9 said:

Quote:

I do hope Perkins is RB2

At some point next year

Most closely resembles Vereen among the Giants' roster RBs. But it's more likely by far PP pushes Darkwa off the roster, rather than Vereen, in 2016 anyway.

And it's way to early to know if PP is an upgrade over any of the Giants' current RBS; currently defacto he carries a 5th round grade!

Our best back and an invaluable weapon in the MacDoo scheme who helps take the pressure off OBJ and get him open, who would leave dead money, who we invested a fortune on.
It's not that some dolt can write such things it's on us that we read them.

Has not taken hold of the opportunity he was given just minor nicks which keep holding him back. The talent is there but the production is greatly lacking sounds like 95% of the roster strange is it not. Let's not kid ourselves we really don't have a special RB not even Vareen who is good but not great at what he does. I will give him credit for proving Eli can complete passes to backs other than Tiki. Jennings can't stay on the field and lacks special skills across the board but shined for several weeks when it really did not matter sound familiar. Williams is someone who is going in the wrong direction since a very nice rookie preseason another head scratcher.

Paul Perkins has by most accounts already become the best HB on the team who has not even worn a Giants uniform yet. This team has a long way to go both talent and depth wise and for whatever reasons just can't get a break for the most part. Right now we could say PP and Vereen are locks to make the team but the rest are in the show me what you can do stage for sure at HB.

But the coaches see him every day in practice, so I assume if they are looking in another direction, then they are not seeing enough out of him.

only because he can be used as a Wr and 3rd down back. The problem with Vareen his he can't run the ball very well. I think looking at this Darka is not going to make it esp seeing he is hurt.

he's a Swiss Army knife that wasn't fully used last year. He will likely be more ingrained in McAdoos offense now that he fully runs the team.

I'm certainly not cutting him over Darkwa either.

With his versatility, he puts pressure on defenses. You want as many people like that as possible.

Darkwa does not. I still think the Giants see something in Williams to not get rid of him

Shane Vereen is one of the best players on this team. He's perfect for the West Coast Offense.

our backup RBs?

In comment 12947491 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

My impression of him is he is a very tough runner who isn't very tough. What I mean by that is he is punishing runner for a few snaps, but he seems to get nicked up pretty quickly. Bad luck? Regardless, he has an uphill fight on his hands to make this team. Unlike most on BBI, I think the organization is still higher on Andre Williams.

I think so as well. Reese has said he gives draft picks every chance to fail. Williams was a fourth round pick that everybody wanted. “Finding Giants” shows the entire Giants staff holding their collective breaths on draft day, hoping that he falls to them. Reese even investigated moving up to the first pick in the fourth round, but the price was too high. Williams has no wiggle, but if he gets past the LOS he punishes people.

In comment 12947505 TC said:

Quote:

In comment 12947491 Eric from BBI said: Quote: My impression of him is he is a very tough runner who isn't very tough. What I mean by that is he is punishing runner for a few snaps, but he seems to get nicked up pretty quickly. Bad luck? Regardless, he has an uphill fight on his hands to make this team. Unlike most on BBI, I think the organization is still higher on Andre Williams. I think I recall you mentioning that before, but I believe I've also seen it elsewhere. Too bad if he's a talented guy betrayed by his own body. Some smaller backs seem to know how to play the game hard and still stay healthy, evidently others don't. Tiki was pretty small when he started, though I'd bet he was a lot heavier than listed after Coughlin got here. Tony Dorsett was another smaller back who took care of himself, only taking hits when the situation demanded. But Walter Payton was no bigger than Darkwa and ran hard all the time, finishing every run with a pop. Would be nice if the coaches could think of a way to allow him to stay healthy, and still be effective.

I remember an article way back about Tiki Barber highlighting a new workout regimen. Part of that highlighted something he trained on (maybe with a martial arts guy) about absorbing hits. It focused on making his movements more fluid, and instead of fully absorbing a hit, learning to bounce off a hit. Something along those lines. I remember that particular year being a breakout year for him.

In comment 12947491 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

My impression of him is he is a very tough runner who isn't very tough. What I mean by that is he is punishing runner for a few snaps, but he seems to get nicked up pretty quickly. Bad luck? Regardless, he has an uphill fight on his hands to make this team. Unlike most on BBI, I think the organization is still higher on Andre Williams.

Obviously the team was higher on Williams, he was a drafted player! Where are you getting "he is punishing runner for a few snaps, but he seems to get nicked up pretty quickly"? He has a fracture and was pulled from practise as a precaution to prevent further injury. He has only carried the ball 45 times with the Giants, last year only 36 times with a 4.3 YPC, he was only targeted 5 times last year while catching 3 with a 10.3/YPR. You might want to consider, he is our fastest RB, he catches the ball, makes would-be tacklers miss and is productive carrying the ball based on his limitted opportunities. Check the facts before making wild ascertions!

Because I watch the games and a lot of times he came off the field limping after 3-4 carries.

I highly doubt he will make the roster. His talent definitely is "make it" talent, but the amount of time's he gets injured vs. the amount of plays he is on the field doesn't bode well for him.

It's not like Jennings who also gets hurt, but that's after a lot of action.

I definitely agree with Eric.

What is beneficial about Darkwa, from what I remember is he plays special teams. So Does Jennings, So Does Vereen and Perkins is making the team. To me Perkins and Vereen are sure things on the roster. The rest of the guys are in a battle.

in a thread a couple days ago.

outside of Vereen, it is damn tough to know what we have the RB's. The run blocking was so poor last year that I can't tell whose skill set is a fit. Darkwa is a hard runner, but even he struggled to find holes with that line.

Honestly, I think Jennings behind just a semi-decent run blocking line is a solid #1. I think Williams is a poor back, but it is tough to confirm when the right side of the line sometimes outright whiffed on blocks.

Vereen isn't getting cut.

He's a key cog in this offense. You need a 3DRB who can run every route out of the backfield and even the slot and Vereen fits that mold perfectly. He's one of the best pass catching RB's in football.

will be closer to GB's and what McAdoo is accustomed to, so, a player like Vereen may be more productive.

Williams is not a bad athlete. I wouldn't write him off just yet. I can see him being a 80 yard or more back in this offense.

A high powered passing game will loosen things up in the running game. I hope he continued to work on his receiving chops in the off season.

In comment 12947647 I Love Clams Casino said:

Quote:

In comment 12947505 TC said: Quote: In comment 12947491 Eric from BBI said: Quote: My impression of him is he is a very tough runner who isn't very tough. What I mean by that is he is punishing runner for a few snaps, but he seems to get nicked up pretty quickly. Bad luck? Regardless, he has an uphill fight on his hands to make this team. Unlike most on BBI, I think the organization is still higher on Andre Williams. I think I recall you mentioning that before, but I believe I've also seen it elsewhere. Too bad if he's a talented guy betrayed by his own body. Some smaller backs seem to know how to play the game hard and still stay healthy, evidently others don't. Tiki was pretty small when he started, though I'd bet he was a lot heavier than listed after Coughlin got here. Tony Dorsett was another smaller back who took care of himself, only taking hits when the situation demanded. But Walter Payton was no bigger than Darkwa and ran hard all the time, finishing every run with a pop. Would be nice if the coaches could think of a way to allow him to stay healthy, and still be effective. I remember an article way back about Tiki Barber highlighting a new workout regimen. Part of that highlighted something he trained on (maybe with a martial arts guy) about absorbing hits. It focused on making his movements more fluid, and instead of fully absorbing a hit, learning to bounce off a hit. Something along those lines. I remember that particular year being a breakout year for him.

It was all the running up the Ramapo Mountains with Greg Comella.

In comment 12947801 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

I was waiting for that..

no more no less

situation alone means veeren is safe this year too much dead cap to cut him,as the primary receiving RB on the team,williams isnt a real pass catcher,jennings is pretty good catching the ball but he is the primary back so they tend to limit his pass catching attempts

jennings is the defacto starter totally safe
veeren is the primary pass catcher of the group safe
perkins looks like he will be short yardage/3rd down
williams is the best of rest despite the hate alot of fans have for him (unfairly mostly) the team is high on him still so he makes the team

that leaves 2 spots (maybe 3 if they use rainey as the ST kick/punt returner) and 4 running backs paul perkins,orleans darkwa,andre williams and bobby rainey playing for those slots

perkins looks like he will become the short yardage/3rd down back with the OL still a mess they need his elusiveness there so that leaves a 3 way shoot out between williams,darkwa and rainey for the last roster slot

williams is probably the best of those 3 so expect he gets the last slot,rainey could make the team on ST outside of the RB corp and would also give them some injury cover.

depends how they view the special teams play of guys like davis and harris in the WR corp likely they could use harris on kick returns and rainey could be used for punt returns unless geremy davis beats him out?

for the first time in a few years there is competition for most positions on the team,unfortunately this will lead to some tough choices at cuts time

In comment 12947827 Victor in CT said:

Quote:

no more no less

You must be talking about Williams, Darkwa doesn't get much
of an opportunity to prove if he is a JAG.
He can cut back and has some vision, Williams has neither.

You look at a team like Seattle for example, an UDFA proved
he can play at RB...You know what, they got rid of a
3rd Rd. pick. The Giants don't do things like that,
one of their issues.

who runs with heart. But he might be one of those guys whose bodies can't the punishment his mind can. ( bob sanders, RG3 kind of guys)

In comment 12947569 BlueLou said:

Quote:

Most closely resembles Vereen among the Giants' roster RBs. But it's more likely by far PP pushes Darkwa off the roster, rather than Vereen, in 2016 anyway. And it's way to early to know if PP is an upgrade over any of the Giants' current RBS; currently defacto he carries a 5th round grade!

Yes he was drafted in the 5th round, but isn't it the meme here that you don't draft RBs/RTs early? Could be the "scale" changes for some positions.
I love it that he has signed already. Shows his focus is "getting on the field".

Vereen could be a surprise cut.

The 27-year-old guy who's shifty, can block a little, and catches passes in a passing league on a passing team with a passing coach ... is going to be a surprise cut.

I thought Darkwa was good last year, most of us were clamoring for him to get more snaps.

Rashad turned it on late and got the majority of carries and I was not aware of Darkwa having injury issues...

A bit shocked thinking he will not remain with the giants this year.

Sure he's a good pass catcher, but he's no Darren Sproles or Reggie Bush.

The biggest reason he might survive cuts is his salary.

Darkwa is a fourth string RB for a handful of reasons.

If they can properly utilize the top 3, and get an offense that can become more consistent in sustaining drives, the RB position becomes a non-story.

Here's a breakdown of how overrated Vereen is by fans (by the numbers, of course).

Vereen (27 years old) in 2015

59 catches
495 yards
(8.4 average)
4 TDs

61 carries
260 yards
(4.3 average)

+++

Sproles (32 years old) in 2015
55 catches
388 yards
(7.1 average)
1 TD

83 carries
317 yards
(3.8 average)

+++

Bush (31 years old) combined 2015 and 2014
44 catches
272 yards
(6.2 average)
0 TDs

84 carries
325 yards
(3.6 average)

+++

Some of you guys are a little bit cray-cray this morning.

Going to see a few surprises. Maybe PP and Vereen In a two back set. With Cruz, OBJ and SS Good luck

Giants like darkwa don't trust him in passing downs and as Eric said he's a tough runner who gets banged up. Williams is the opposite. Plays specials. Durable and can block a little and is same cost as darkwa. Darkwa will be cut and by the time camp opens up Jennings will be the 1 and get most of the carries. Perkins will spell him along with vereen and Williams won't see the field unless there's an injury.

In comment 12948003 Beezer said:

Quote:

Here's a breakdown of how overrated Vereen is by fans (by the numbers, of course). Vereen (27 years old) in 2015 59 catches 495 yards (8.4 average) 4 TDs 61 carries 260 yards (4.3 average) +++ Sproles (32 years old) in 2015 55 catches 388 yards (7.1 average) 1 TD 83 carries 317 yards (3.8 average) +++ Bush (31 years old) combined 2015 and 2014 44 catches 272 yards (6.2 average) 0 TDs 84 carries 325 yards (3.6 average) +++ Some of you guys are a little bit cray-cray this morning.

Beez, come on. I obviously meant in their primes. Its a bit unfair to compare a 27 year old with two players over 30 and just about forked.

Sproles and Bush in their prime were dynamic. Vereen is not. He is a good pass catcher with some shiftiness but he's not really anything special.

I had high hopes for him, still do. Wish him the best.

If Perkins can play a full package, Jennings is Toast. Salary is an obvious considerations, and the RB's will be the most generic considerations because ytou can plug and play different combos.

In comment 12947491 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

...Regardless, he has an uphill fight on his hands to make this team. Unlike most on BBI, I think the organization is still higher on Andre Williams.

I certainly hope this isn't the case. Without an offensive line capable of parting the Red Sea, Andre Williams is pretty much 2 yards and a cloud and dust.