Disclaimer: It is realistic if not probable that the team will make an addition or two after cuts and the possibility of a trade for Davis still lingers. I've also incorporated "11" personal and the nickel/3 safety sub packages due to the frequency with which they are utilized. So without further ado...
Slow Saturday, so I figured it could be interesting to discuss the possible lineup changes we will see Week 1. With the team rebuil...err...reloading after an unprecedented FA period and seemingly productive draft it could lead to some good debates. Instead of breaking it down as you normally would I'm going to separate positions by those that are locks, those that are up for grabs with an anticipated camp battle, and positions where a new face may eventually replace an incumbent. I've put in bold who I think are viable team captains
Offensive
Locks:
QB: Eli Manning
LT: Ereck Flowers
LG: Justin Pugh
C: Weston Richburg
RG John Jerry
WR1: Odell Beckham
WR2: Victor Cruz
WR3: Sterling Shepard
Battles
RT: Bobby Hart (winner) vs Marshall Newhouse
FB: Will Johnson (winner) vs Nikita Whitlock
Incumbents Giving Way
TE: Tye, giving way to Adams
RB: Jennings, giving way to Perkins
Rationale:
Along the OL I'm hopeful that Hart, who seems to have really dedicated himself this offseason after a decent rookie campaign (for a 7th rounder) can unseat JAG Newhouse.
Whitlock was a nice story last season with his versatility but let's be honest, if he's still seeing time at DT this season something is wrong. Further hurting his chances is the fact that Johnson a more consistent lead blocker (I personally thought Hynoski was too, FWIW). He also brings versatility to the table, and it's precisely the type McAdoo prefers, offering the ability to line up as a traditional FB while also being capable playing some H-back and even in-line TE. The Green Bay/McCarthy influence was on full display with this signing.
At RB I think they pick up where they left off last season when they finally settled on Jennings and he ran for 425 yards, half his seasons output, over the last four games. But he's far from a difference maker, and that just may be what they have in Perkins, who by all accounts was a steal in the 4th. I think the team will still utilize multiple backs, especially with Vereen and his niche role. Im also confident that Perkins will see the field early in spot duty, as early as week one. But if he adjusts well to the next level I think we'll see a flip-flop in terms of who gets the bulk of the carries, with Jennings being used to spell Perkins by mid season.
At TE Tye was a very nice surprise, earning all rookie team honors after going undrafted. Like 90% of TEs in the league today he must work on his blocking but he proved to be a reliable target with RAC ability. However Adams has all the tools to be a solid starter in this league and has prototypical size/speed for the position. Similar to Perkins, if he adjusts well to the pro game I can see him getting significant time by mid season, barring a big leap, breakout year two from Tye.
Defense
Locks
DE: JPP
DT: Jonathan Hankins
NT: Damon Harrison
DE: Olivier Vernon
WLB: JT Thomas
SAM: Devon Kennard
CB1: DRC
CB2: Jenkins
CB3: Apple (I, like many expect Apple to play outside with Jenkins sliding inside for slot duty when the package calls for 3 corners)
SS: Landon Collins
Battles:
FS: Darian Thompson (winner) vs Nat Berhe, Mykelle Thompson, and Bennett Jackson
MLB: Keenan Thompson (winner) vs Jasper Brinkley, BJ Goodson.
3rd Safety: Berhe (winner) vs Cooper Taylor
Rationale:
Despite all that's made of the scheme employing versatile safeties who can man both spots the need for a coverage safety is glaring. Berhe might be the most talented holdover but like the others lacks any kind of meaningful NFL experience and is also more of a SS-type. Darian Thompson, although a rookie, is the most athletic safety on the roster and his range, ball skills, and football IQ gives him the leg-up in this competition.
At MLB Brinkley may have the upper hand when it comes to playing in this scheme and is also more of a traditional run stopper. But he's a one dimensional, 2 down LBer who is a liability in anything other than coming downhill. Robinson is aggressive and has solid instincts. He is also versatile and can not only stay on the field on 3rd down, but can even play some OLB. Hes not as stout at the point as Brinkley or Goodson but playing behind Hank and Snacks should mitigate that deficiency. He's struggled to to stay healthy and has missed time in each of his first 4 seasons so expect to see Brinkley at some point. But I wouldn't sleep on Goodson either, and it's not out of the question to see him earn the primary backup role.
Which brings me to an outside possibility, one that IMO would be a best case scenario but is probably a year away: if Reese and company *finally* hit on a mid round LBer we might just see a LB corp of Robinson(WLB)/Goodson(MLB)/Kennard(SAM). I think that's the best case scenario but as I said, we might be a year or two away from.
Also felt it was necessary to discuss the 3rd safety, as its prominent in the D. Although Berhe may not earn the starting role he by all accounts has been working so hard for, I think there's still a role for him as a regular contributor. His downhill, hard-hitting, attacking style is a perfect match for Spagnuolo's 3rd safety spot. Line him up in the box and let him chase the ball. While he may never be a starter at this level this is the perfect role for him, and one I can see him excelling at.
So, in summation, my prediction for the week 1 lineup
Offense
QB: Manning
RB: Jennings
FB: Johnson
WR1: Beckham
WR2: Cruz
WR3: Shepard
TE: Tye
LT: Flowers
LG: Pugh
C: Richburg
RG: Jerry
RT: Hart
Defense
RDE: Vernon
DT: Hankins
NT: Harrison
LDE: JPP
WIL: Thomas
MLB: Robinson
SAM: Kennard
CB1: DRC
CB2: Jenkins
CB3: Apple (playing outside in 3 corner sets)
SS: Collins
FS: Thomas
Sub-package S: Berhe
So, what do you think? Any chance we'll see something close to this on opening day? Who do you think the starting 22 (and key sub package personnel) will be? General thoughts?
RB: Jennings/Perkins with Vareen out of backfield
FB: Johnson
WR1: OBJ
WR2: Shepard
WR3: Cruz(slot)
TE: Tye and Adams
2 possibilities
1
LT: Flowers
LG: Pugh
C: Richburg
RG: Jerry
RT: Anthony Davis
2
LT: Flowers
LG: Slauson
C: Richburg
RG: Jerry
RT: Pugh
Defense:
FS: D. Thompson
SS: Collins
CB1: DRC
CB2: Jenkins
CB3: Apple
WLB: Robinson
MIKE: Goodson
SLB: Kennard
LDE: JPP
DT: Hankins
DT: Harrison
RDE: Vernon
I think you, like many here, underestimate Tye. I think he will be the starter and will keep that job. His receiving skill are too valuable to take off the field and his blocking is likely to be good enough to keep him as the starter. Adams, given he's currently a better blocker than receiver, won't be better than the #2 TE. He'll need this year to polish his pass catching.
I agree about Robinson at MLB. However, given his injury history, Goodson or Brinkley could be starting at any time.
I'd love to see Thompson win the FS job but it's hard to step in as a starter when you are a rookie. That will be interesting.
I agree that they'll give Hart the chance to be the starting RT rather than the RG. I would be great to see that. However, a new player that isn't here yet is also a possibility.
just because they start doesnt mean we believe they do well lol...goodson starts because he is a better player than what else we have. robinsons skills translate well to play WILL. thompson is going to start because he is just a better athlete and player, doesnt mean he wont struggle, but who is better? mkyelle thompson? the 5th rounder who shouldnt have been drafted who is coming off a major injury? berhe who is really a SS moved to FS coming off a major injury or bennet jackson who is a CB moving to FS who is coming off a major injury? see my point? the FS job is his to lose IMO. again i said robinson and goodson start over the trash we currently have there. shepard is a pro ready WR who will make an impact. i had perkins splitting time with jennings thats not to insane to ask of him
a) Hart - still a question mark.
b) Tye is still a maybe -- Donnel may supplant him if healthy.
c) Jennings is always an injury issue.
d) The free safety position is very much a competition - I wouldn't write off Behre yet either
e) Robinson is an injury question at MLB
f) you are ruling out last year's #1 FB and we haven't even had a snap yet
g) Kennard -- can he stay healthy
h) who out there on that list may have a fluke injury we don;'t or can;'t foresee
you see what I mean -- I'd like to see a few snaps happen in training camp before I start making these predictions myself
g) Thomas at will - ok I think there's still some contest that's going to take place there
g) Cruz? hasn't been playing for nearly 2 years and you have him penciled in as a starter?
RB: Jennings
FB: Johnson
TE: Tye
OL: Flower Pugh Richburg Jerry Newhouse
DL: Vernon Harrison Hankins JPP
LB: Kennard Brinkley Robinson
CB: Jenkins DRC
S: Collins Thompson
I think Hart replaces Newhouse at RT and Goodson ends up beating out Brinkley later in the year as well. My bold prediction is that Perkins will be the starting RB to finish the year.
From Rotoworld: Tye emerged as an offensive weapon last season after Larry Donnell went down with a neck injury, recording 32 receptions for 368 yards and three touchdowns over the final seven games. With Donnell's future in question, Giants GM Jerry Reese said he expects Tye to "be a big piece" of the offense moving forward.
How much was Coughlin vs. McAdoo? Maybe the new guy wants to give them more of a chance early on.
a) Hart - still a question mark.
b) Tye is still a maybe -- Donnel may supplant him if healthy.
c) Jennings is always an injury issue.
d) The free safety position is very much a competition - I wouldn't write off Behre yet either
e) Robinson is an injury question at MLB
f) you are ruling out last year's #1 FB and we haven't even had a snap yet
g) Kennard -- can he stay healthy
h) who out there on that list may have a fluke injury we don;'t or can;'t foresee
you see what I mean -- I'd like to see a few snaps happen in training camp before I start making these predictions myself
g) Thomas at will - ok I think there's still some contest that's going to take place there
g) Cruz? hasn't been playing for nearly 2 years and you have him penciled in as a starter?
There's nothing Donnell does better than Tye.
1) Not catching
2) Not ball security
3) Not blocking
Donnell is my annual starter to be cut candidate. I'm think Donnell main supporter on the coaching staff isn't here anymore.
Tend to agree. All the rookies and some UDFAs should make the team, but Thompson is the only one I see starting. Apple will be the third corner.
RT Bobby Hart
TE Will Tye
MLB Kelvin Sheppard
FS Darian Thompson
In general the LBs will be a mixed bag based on down and distance.
Good thread OP.
So, I'm not expecting to see Cruz, Robinson, Behre, Donnell, or Kennard on the field much. I hope I'm wrong.
I hear you but this isn't the typical draft class of the last three to four years. No typical reaches on small school developmental players or athletes in football pads. It's by no means a stretch to think Apple will lock down the third cornerback role. In fact its expected. Perkins will be involved in the running back rotation, hes arguably the best pure runner on the roster, with Jennings providing the only counter-argument. Tye has a very good shot of holding onto the starting gig but when they go 2 TEs ny midseason there's a good shot its Adams. Same goes for Goodson. He'll start in a reserve role and work his way up. Given the propensoty for injuries and a general lack of talent (Robinson and Brinkley, respectively), he may find his way onto the field this season as well.
Im not saying they'll have 5 rookie starters, but they might have one on opening day in Thompson and by seasons end in Perkins, and several others, most notably Apple, will be a major contributor with the D lining up in some variation of the nickle about 60% of the time.
Its important to note that while a handful of rookies may see the field it isnt because they're all-world talents, but because in many cases the talent in front of them is marginal.
Adams may take over eventually, and that would be great, because Tye was a good player last year, so if Adams gets more reps then he will be very effective.
Perkins won't start or get more snaps than Jennings, barring injury. He's pretty much the same player, with less power. His only advantage is that he is younger.
Adams may take over eventually, and that would be great, because Tye was a good player last year, so if Adams gets more reps then he will be very effective.
Perkins won't start or get more snaps than Jennings, barring injury. He's pretty much the same player, with less power. His only advantage is that he is younger.
mmm i am going to disagree about perkins and jennings. Jennings isnt as complete a back as perkins is. Perkins is WAY more elusive. jennings is a one hole and go
Quote:
will be the starters and will get the majority of snaps.
Adams may take over eventually, and that would be great, because Tye was a good player last year, so if Adams gets more reps then he will be very effective.
Perkins won't start or get more snaps than Jennings, barring injury. He's pretty much the same player, with less power. His only advantage is that he is younger.
mmm i am going to disagree about perkins and jennings. Jennings isnt as complete a back as perkins is. Perkins is WAY more elusive. jennings is a one hole and go
Being a complete back means that a back can play on alk three downs and in all situations. Perkins eventually may be a complete back but in no way is he more of a complete back than Jennings. The problem with Jennings is that is is prone to injuries and getting worn down. Otherwise, he has power, vision, he can pass block, he can catch, etc. The word complete is not the right word. Maybe you are thinking of potential. Being elusive and being a one hole and go running back are two totally different things and have nothing to do with being a complete back. And, I disagree that Jennings is a one hole and go back. Jennings works well with our OL because he is patient, allows his blocks to get set up, has great vision, and has enough burst to get through the hole. I think people forget how productive Jennings has been for us when given a significant role.
Let's hope Hart can give him a run. I believe last year, Reese and Ross said they project him to G moreso than OT after the draft. And, I believe that's 100% the case. I think, sadly, the actual lock right now, is Newhouse at RT.
I don't know how true that is right now.
My point is that playing the slot is extremely difficult not just physically but mentally as well. It seems like it is a difficult position to put him in as a rookie. It doesn't mean he won't be able to handle it. It is just that the coaches at this stage of the game are going to throw shit against the wall and see what sticks. They want to see what the players are capable of handling. It is always easier to slow things down for a player as opposed to speed things up. If they just have him as an outside corner and in the preseason just try expanding his role he will be so far behind hin his development it wilk have about a zero percent chance of working. Long story short, take anything at this time of year with a grain or salt.
actually what he admitted was that he played the outside and was studying all the positions
I think Hart wins at RT.
I think Thompson wins a FS.
From Rotoworld: Tye emerged as an offensive weapon last season after Larry Donnell went down with a neck injury, recording 32 receptions for 368 yards and three touchdowns over the final seven games. With Donnell's future in question, Giants GM Jerry Reese said he expects Tye to "be a big piece" of the offense moving forward.
There is a strong chance Tye will be a damn good receiving TE for us. Extrapolate his numbers from the last 7 games over a full season and you have roughly 70 catches and 825yds. Great complementary production to OBJ.
RB - Jennings/Vereen
FB - Johnson
WR - OBJ
WR - Cruz
WR - Shepard
TE - Adams
LT - Flowers
LG - Pugh
OC - Richburg
RG - Louis Vasquez/John Jerry
RT - Anthony Davis
DE - JPP
DE - Vernon
DT - Snacks
DT - Hankins
WLB - Robinson
MLB - Goodson
SLB - Kennard
CB - DRC
CB - Jenkins
CB - Apple
FS - Darian Thompson
SS - Collins
PK - Josh Brown
P - Brad Wing
RB - Jennings/Vereen
FB - Johnson
WR - OBJ
WR - Cruz
WR - Shepard
TE - Adams
LT - Flowers
LG - Pugh
OC - Richburg
RG - Louis Vasquez/John Jerry
RT - Anthony Davis
DE - JPP
DE - Vernon
DT - Snacks
DT - Hankins
WLB - Robinson
MLB - Goodson
SLB - Kennard
CB - DRC
CB - Jenkins
CB - Apple
FS - Darian Thompson
SS - Collins
PK - Josh Brown
P - Brad Wing
i would LOVE that starting team if there were no injuries. in addition i can see perkins getting some carries
LT: Flowers
LG: Pugh
C: Richburg
RG: Jerry
RT: Anthony Davis
I like your line-up, especially Anthony Davis who as far as I know has not even applied for reinstatement in the NFL. Then there is the little matter of negotiating with the 49ers and trying to sign him. Keep dreaming though.
QB: Eli Manning
LT: Ereck Flowers
LG: Justin Pugh
C: Weston Richburg (B. Jones)
RG John Jerry
RT Robert Newhouse (Bobby Hart)
WR1: Odell Beckham
WR2: Victor Cruz
WR3: Sterling Shepard
FB: Will Johnson (Nikita Whitlock may still stick...)
TE: W. Tye (Rookie Adams)
RB: RB S. Vereen and Dwarka (Perkins backup)
You pull more stuff out of your ass than Richard Gere.
From Raanan, yesterday:
When the players took the field for practice, first-round pick Eli Apple was on the outside playing cornerback. He started where he's most familiar, much like first-round pick Ereck Flowers did last year.
There's been a lot of talk about Apple playing in the slot. After all, the Giants already have Janoris Jenkins and Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie on the outside. They could use help on the inside.
If it's going to happen, it didn't happen yet, even if they're prepping Apple for the possibility.
"I'm learning a little bit of everything," he said. "I've had a couple of meetings so far and I'm just looking at the nickel, looking at the outside corners just trying to learn everything."
Quote:
some of those guys are not going to be on the opening roster - anywhere from 3-7 of them because the questions and optimism about them have yet to be borne
a) Hart - still a question mark.
b) Tye is still a maybe -- Donnel may supplant him if healthy.
c) Jennings is always an injury issue.
d) The free safety position is very much a competition - I wouldn't write off Behre yet either
e) Robinson is an injury question at MLB
f) you are ruling out last year's #1 FB and we haven't even had a snap yet
g) Kennard -- can he stay healthy
h) who out there on that list may have a fluke injury we don;'t or can;'t foresee
you see what I mean -- I'd like to see a few snaps happen in training camp before I start making these predictions myself
g) Thomas at will - ok I think there's still some contest that's going to take place there
g) Cruz? hasn't been playing for nearly 2 years and you have him penciled in as a starter?
There's nothing Donnell does better than Tye.
1) Not catching
2) Not ball security
3) Not blocking
Donnell is my annual starter to be cut candidate. I'm think Donnell main supporter on the coaching staff isn't here anymore.
Donnell and his basketball frame is a much better redzone target.
a) Hart - still a question mark.
b) Tye is still a maybe -- Donnel may supplant him if healthy.
c) Jennings is always an injury issue.
d) The free safety position is very much a competition - I wouldn't write off Behre yet either
e) Robinson is an injury question at MLB
f) you are ruling out last year's #1 FB and we haven't even had a snap yet
g) Kennard -- can he stay healthy
h) who out there on that list may have a fluke injury we don;'t or can;'t foresee
you see what I mean -- I'd like to see a few snaps happen in training camp before I start making these predictions myself
g) Thomas at will - ok I think there's still some contest that's going to take place there
g) Cruz? hasn't been playing for nearly 2 years and you have him penciled in as a starter?
Jesus, the man's just throwing it out there. You gotta pick everything apart?
mcadoo's offense uses a fullback
QB: Eli Manning
RB: Jennings, Vereen, Perkins, Darkwa
WR: OBJ, Cruz, Shepard, Harris, Davis
TE: Tye, Donnell, Adams
DE Left to Right: JPP, Harrison, Hankins, Vernon
LB: Kennard, Brinkley, Sheppard
CB: DRC, Jenkins, Apple
SS: Collins,
Fs: Bennett Jackson
….Did a little extra
False.