Let's forget the fact we passed up on a potential Hall of Fame LT because he smokes pot.
Jets were looking for Tunsil. Offered same deal to TB (11th) and Saints (12th).
Why on Earth did Reese not accept this deal??
As it turns out, Treadwell, Docston and CB William Jackson were all on the board at 20.
The following players were on the board with the Jets 2nd round pick:
RG/RT Cody Whitehair
CB Mackensie Alexander
WR Tyler Boyd
FS Vonn Bell
To drop down 10 spots (after our target was off the board) we could've gotten a starting OL or secondary player. Those guys cost a fortune in premium picks or free agency. (That's called value.)
Really think Reese dropped the ball here. He just had to have Eli Apple so bad?? Or did he panic?
And this is an old story.
Jesus Christ.
I am taking the over...
However, as I've said in the last thread this similar subject, here's what I would have done (with the benefit of hindsight) without changing the Giants picks (except the 1st rounder);
Jets 1st: Darren Lee
Jets 2nd: Cody Whitehair (Vonn Bell would have been nice too)
However, they get paid to do this and I don't. 2 other teams passed up the same deal. We also now know that Apple would have likely gone to TB or Miami. Reese has been above average with 1st round picks. Although he hasn't done so well in later rounds, I think they killed it this year so I have no complaints.
Value board says they needed to offer a 2 and a 4. Also, it is possible that we had Apple so far above the other names you mentioned that getting the extra 2nd was not enough for drop in quality. Dave Te Thomas did an excellent look at the top corners that showed Jackson was by far the worst in coverage and he played lesser WR than the other top CB's. Moreover, there is no guarantee that, by altering how one team drafts, the same players would be their at 20 or the Jets 2nd Round pick. If Jets trade up for Tunsil, does Tampa take Apple or Hargreaves at 11? Dolphins at 13? You can't look at who was there with hindsight.
Because it wasn't a fair offer.
By the way, any tidbits on Davis signing? It's been over a week since the deal was imminent....
Let's sure hope he is!
not exactly a ringing endorsement that you loved the guy top 10.
And if he doesn't?
I think it was Jint Fan in Buc Land who said that Apple was Tampa's choice not Hargreaves and traded down because they thought that Tunsil was going to be a Giant so they could get an extra 4th and still get the guy they wanted. Hargreaves was only the pick AFTER Apple was gone. Are they really going to say publicly that they really wanted someone else and trades down too far?
That's basically what we passed up. And although the Giants couldn't know exactly who would be on the board they would have a pretty good idea that this was a fairly deep red Chip draft and that 1 or 2 guys in their higher tier groupings would have likely been available.
This is where relying on the chart too much doesn't really account for drafts that may be well stocked with higher value red chippers deeper into the draft.
I can understand not doing it if the target who had the really high value to you (Floyd) was not on the board. But I really don't see Apple as the type of shutdown corner that will be better than having two high caliber redchippers from the groupings mentioned above on the team.
And if Miami takes a DB at 13, they likely don't trade up for Howard in Round 2 and that plays out differently
That's basically what we passed up. And although the Giants couldn't know exactly who would be on the board they would have a pretty good idea that this was a fairly deep red Chip draft and that 1 or 2 guys in their higher tier groupings would have likely been available.
This is where relying on the chart too much doesn't really account for drafts that may be well stocked with higher value red chippers deeper into the draft.
I can understand not doing it if the target who had the really high value to you (Floyd) was not on the board. But I really don't see Apple as the type of shutdown corner that will be better than having two high caliber redchippers from the groupings mentioned above on the team.
You don't, must maybe our scouts and coaches do. Please tell me what team you scout for and how much actual film of these players have you watched?
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Does one of Lee (a 4.4 40 LB), Doctson,Treadwell,or Jackson AND one of Cody Whitehair, Carl Nassib ,Bullard, Kaufusi,Von Bell, or Tyler Boyd less than or greater than Eli Apple.
That's basically what we passed up. And although the Giants couldn't know exactly who would be on the board they would have a pretty good idea that this was a fairly deep red Chip draft and that 1 or 2 guys in their higher tier groupings would have likely been available.
This is where relying on the chart too much doesn't really account for drafts that may be well stocked with higher value red chippers deeper into the draft.
I can understand not doing it if the target who had the really high value to you (Floyd) was not on the board. But I really don't see Apple as the type of shutdown corner that will be better than having two high caliber redchippers from the groupings mentioned above on the team.
You don't, must maybe our scouts and coaches do. Please tell me what team you scout for and how much actual film of these players have you watched?
Mike, good morning..It's Jersey Joe
Plus this was a huge thread a week ago.
Stop the stupid.
I think the premise of the thread is silly, the Giants simply didn't think the offer to move back was strong enough. Period.
But do you really believe what you wrote Eric? Post-draft has Reese ever said anything other than how much they loved the player they picked. I can see a situation where Reese was unhappy with the way the draft unfolded. Two previously assumed top 10 guys didn't get selected and the Giants were the team left out, or sure the Giants could have just had Apple rated higher than most others. who knows what to believe.
my point is I don't trust almost anything that comes out of the mouths of these GMS's (any of them) post-draft.
Junk tends to be behind by at least a week.........
Because he's not getting enough attention?
Chris in Philly : 8:58 am : link : reply
from the Apple camp?
All the files are on his MaCintosh
It's not to say they might have wanted Floyd above Apple, but picking tenth in a red chip draft they had to know there was a good chance a highly rated pass rusher would be gone.
It's a coin flip imo and the giants do well with their #1 pick.
Ironically, at the time of the draft I thought I would want to either a) stay at 10 and take Doctson or b) try and trade down and take Apple, Decker or Treadwell.
Goes to show how little I know.
The Giants did the right thing in passing on him..imo
It's not to say they might have wanted Floyd above Apple, but picking tenth in a red chip draft they had to know there was a good chance a highly rated pass rusher would be gone.
Yeah, I'm not saying they didn't stick to their board, and Apple wasn't their highest remaining player, I am saying I'd be skeptical of Reese saying they felt Apple was a top 10 player.
Myles Jack and Tunsil falling I think potentially hurt the Giants and they possibly got a player they had ranked 12 or so at 10. For example.
Read every review of every player Reese drafted - even the unmitigated disasters, same theme, loved the player, drafted right where they should he should be drafted, etc.
I'd think it's more likely than not that Apple was NOT in the top 10 on the Giants draft board. Completely my opinion.
And I have zero issue with it and I think he can work out fine, just my opinion.
Previous thread on NYJ offer. - ( New Window )
What in the holy fuck?
And this is an old story.
Jesus Christ.
LOL.
because jerry said so ? if you check the value chart, its like 3 points shy of equal value.
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Because its not enough value to move from 10 to 20. Not even close actually.
And this is an old story.
Jesus Christ.
LOL.
because jerry said so ? if you check the value chart, its like 3 points shy of equal value.
Or perhaps they got a player they wanted at 10, and would have had to settle for a lesser player at 20.
What a mess.....
Link - ( New Window )
We were offered 1 draft pick. A second rounder. Are we splitting one of them by mitochondriosis?
We didn't draft Eli Apple to be a slot corner. And where are you getting three picks from?
You're undervaluing a position that played over 500 plays for this team last season, and I think you're misleading if you believe there's a glut of corners out there looking for work. Everybody's looking for corners, and the good ones are expensive.
Jack, Shepard and Bell. So actually because of FA you filled 4 positions of need instead of 2. and gotten three potentially good young players instead of 2.
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You could have picked up a slot corner in FA. There are several good ones still available and filled three holes with three good players. Eli Apple better be great not good but great or it was bad.
We didn't draft Eli Apple to be a slot corner. And where are you getting three picks from?
he's saying the first round pick from the Jets, their 2nd and the Giant 2nd.
however, a brief history of Reese's 2nd round picks would easily dispel the notion that the 2nd round is a sure thing.
and dropping back 10 spots in the first is also historically indicative of a worse player.
it's a false premise and a bad thread.
this is the only reply to area junc anyone should need to make.
Jack, Shepard and Bell. So actually because of FA you filled 4 positions of need instead of 2. and gotten three potentially good young players instead of 2.
If the Giants were craving Bell or Jack, they could have efforted to trade up in the second just like they did last year to go get collins. They've never been shy to go get a player they rate highly. Tells me they didn't value those players at hotly as fans did.
And really, I'm a Vonn Bell fan for what he did at school, but he's not a must have. He's small and limited athletically. Thompson could bear out to be exactly what they need.
I think I might have done that deal too. If Reese had pushed for the additional 4th said to make the trade up equivalent value, did the Jets stand firm?
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In comment 12956216 Danny Kanell said:
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Because its not enough value to move from 10 to 20. Not even close actually.
And this is an old story.
Jesus Christ.
LOL.
because jerry said so ? if you check the value chart, its like 3 points shy of equal value.
Or perhaps they got a player they wanted at 10, and would have had to settle for a lesser player at 20.
So what you are saying is Eli Apple is worth a 10th pick and a 2nd rounder but will not even start week 1 2016.
Its fail but no one will admit it here.
Look at Giants draft history, its a crap shoot with this staff, more picks = better.
Apple could be a great one, but saying that at this point is just drinking the blue kool aid.
We could have gotten a good FA for the slot, a good WR, Good LB and good safety. All with high ceilings. Instead we got a CB that wont play his best position and may not be ready to play the slot this year and a good WR prospect who I love.
4 holes filled potentially vs 1.5 holes filled . Thats how I see it. I liked the rest of the draft
+1
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Because its not enough value to move from 10 to 20. Not even close actually.
And this is an old story.
Jesus Christ.
LOL.
because jerry said so ? if you check the value chart, its like 3 points shy of equal value.
If by 3 points you mean at minimum an additional 4th rd pick, then yes you're right.
Because Booger McPhlegm at DraftDoody.com said that Eli Apple was not a 1st round pick (let alone top ten), and would have been available to us at #20 or even later, maybe. You can trust Booger...he has a real "nose" for the game. No one is better at sniffing out talent.
What in the holy fuck?
Lol. You'd think?
Clearly not worth dropping down that far in a mediocre 1st Round.
Just saying top 10 pick doesn't mean there was much of a difference in this draft between the 10th and the 20th pick. The stength was also recognized to be the depth which the Giants could have capitalized and chose not to.
That's why trading down beyond the 15-18 range was a very bad idea.
Just saying top 10 pick doesn't mean there was much of a difference in this draft between the 10th and the 20th pick. The stength was also recognized to be the depth which the Giants could have capitalized and chose not to.
There's a big difference between getting the CB you've graded the highest - for a variety of reasons - and settling for one with a lower grade.
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Plus this was a huge thread a week ago.
Junk tends to be behind by at least a week.........
This coming from a guy who takes every chance he can to hate his own country?
I do hate schmucks who try to ruin this board by posting false shit or intentionally trolling.
That's not "nothing but hate", it is only aimed directly at the fetid few who tear down an otherwise great place to discuss things.
It isn't prudent. It only makes complete sense in retrospect after the dust has settled. But in the real world you draft the player, you know, that you'd like to acquire?
I'd think it's more likely than not that Apple was NOT in the top 10 on the Giants draft board. Completely my opinion.
And I have zero issue with it and I think he can work out fine, just my opinion.
pj: You know the Giants don't have a "top 10" list, right? They group players of similar value into tears. So, players 8-12 could be in their 3rd tier for example.
[quote] with an offer. I think they call someone else who is before or after the Giants and more inclined to make a deal. On draft day time is very limited to make a deal, Reese is not going to be your first phone call. [/quote
If Reese was going to get what he considered a good deal, he'd do it unless he was totally locked on a player. If your the GM of a team looking to move up, you have to call your best possible trading partner no matter what. You just never know. Besides, every team has multiple folks working the phones.
Also a few Dolphin beat writers have said if Eli Apple, Myles Jack & Tunsil were all on the board they were taking Eli Apple.
More than likely after this year or next year Reese will be gone. you win games at the lOS and this year we'll probably be okay but unless they do some big moves again - next year JPP will be gone and we'll have only one good rusher and we'll probably be mediocre enough to not get another good Offensive Lineman.
No forward thinking here and it will catch up with the blundering Reese.
Reese has been largely gold in the early rounds; so if you are gonna bitch, start with Darien Thompson and Goodson and tell me who you would have taken instead...
Reese has been largely gold in the early rounds; so if you are gonna bitch, start with Darien Thompson and Goodson and tell me who you would have taken instead...
the problem has been with the overall team being pathetic for way too many years. And just because guys like Flowers and Pugh aren't busts doesn't mean we should give Reese a parade.
It's a bit frustrating on here that so many Giants fans accept failure as much as we have had to endure over the course of Eli's run. OFC the titles were incredible awesome - unreal -- but other than that- our inability to make the playoffs for the many Eli years -- it gets excused way too much. We should have done much much better in terms of getting into the playoffs, agreed?
Some of us think this draft was underwhelming for the long term. the analysts for example rate last year's pick OO as "great value." IMO he will be a bust. I'm supposed to pretend I love Reese after such crap we've had to endure? And now to hear we could have gotten another pick - another potential quality player which we've heard Reese does well enough in rounds 1 and 2?
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It's like Reese drafted Rocky Thompson or Eldrege Small or even Fredrickson with Gayle Sayers and Dick Butkus still on the board.
Reese has been largely gold in the early rounds; so if you are gonna bitch, start with Darien Thompson and Goodson and tell me who you would have taken instead...
the problem has been with the overall team being pathetic for way too many years. And just because guys like Flowers and Pugh aren't busts doesn't mean we should give Reese a parade.
It's a bit frustrating on here that so many Giants fans accept failure as much as we have had to endure over the course of Eli's run. OFC the titles were incredible awesome - unreal -- but other than that- our inability to make the playoffs for the many Eli years -- it gets excused way too much. We should have done much much better in terms of getting into the playoffs, agreed?
Some of us think this draft was underwhelming for the long term. the analysts for example rate last year's pick OO as "great value." IMO he will be a bust. I'm supposed to pretend I love Reese after such crap we've had to endure? And now to hear we could have gotten another pick - another potential quality player which we've heard Reese does well enough in rounds 1 and 2?
"I'm supposed to pretend I love Reese after such crap we've had to endure?"
Dramatic much? THE HORROR!!!!!!
This team has won 2 Super Bowls in past 10 years. No other team in the NFL can say that, yet 85% of BBI acts like they've suffered some sort atrocity.
This team was god awful in 2013, a 6 win team that was more like a 3-4 win team.
The 2015 team was a 6 win team, that was more like an 8 win team.
I thought Coughlin cost us games, and it was just time for him to go. (I was all for keeping him until Beckham game)
This team has a:
Top 5 QB
Top 2 WR
#2 WR to be excited about (SS)
3 young OL (possible 4 if Hart steps up) to build around
A top DL
Improved LB core
Top CB unit with DRC/JJ/Apple
2 young S in Collins/Thompson
This team is vastly better as of today (5/15/16), than it has been in years.
Look- I'm not thrilled with the results the past few years, but there is certainly reason to be optimistic.
BBI needs to get a fucking grip here. I get painted as a homer, but posts like this make me wonder if people actually pay attention to what's going on.
Good lord people.
It is equally frustrating on here that so many Giants fans have a lack of perspective. You'd swear we were like the Browns or Lions. You'd swear that this team is one of the worst in the league several years running.
You'd have idea that they own 2 SB's in the past 7 years and that they have 4 overall which puts them in the elite air. People gushed over the Panthers last year. People envy the Eagles playoff appearances.
I've said several times that I'd take a Super Bowl even if it meant a few years of shitty football over getting close and winning shit.
People accept failure because they are keen enough to realize that success has been with this franchise more than the others. Some here come off as if they'd rather make the playoffs every year and not win it all rather than be multiple Super Bowl champs. I'll never understand it.
You're mad that the team was bad 50 years ago? Is that it?
Serious question.
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It's a bit frustrating on here that so many Giants fans accept failure as much as we have had to endure over the course of Eli's run
It is equally frustrating on here that so many Giants fans have a lack of perspective. You'd swear we were like the Browns or Lions. You'd swear that this team is one of the worst in the league several years running.
You'd have idea that they own 2 SB's in the past 7 years and that they have 4 overall which puts them in the elite air. People gushed over the Panthers last year. People envy the Eagles playoff appearances.
I've said several times that I'd take a Super Bowl even if it meant a few years of shitty football over getting close and winning shit.
People accept failure because they are keen enough to realize that success has been with this franchise more than the others. Some here come off as if they'd rather make the playoffs every year and not win it all rather than be multiple Super Bowl champs. I'll never understand it.
this imo is blind following. A failure to accept what is evident right before their eyes. - is that we haven't won a super bowl in 4 years. It is actually two super bowls in 8 years -- not 7.
It would be okay if we had some hope for being strong in the future, but do we? Some on here seem to think that making the playoffs once in 5 years is a sign of good management because we won 1 superbowl. the problem with these fans is that they can't look farther than their toes.
We're probably not going to get a whiff of coming close to a superbowl for beyond another 2 years and all this time we had Eli and OBJ. We're letting the window slip though our fingers because of the superbowl win 4 years ago. You don't get Eli Manning's very often.
And please with some of you- can we stop about giving too much credit to reese for 87 and 91. It's laughable this was brought up on this thread. Just yet another example of BLIND BLUE. A poster says for a superbowl win he could then wait a few years for other successes- and I agree- so can I!! the fact is what this poster avoids the hard truth -- IT ALREADY HAS BEEN A FEW YEARS AND NOTHING LOKS LIKE WE"RE CLSOE IS IN SIGHT. This poster is the classic example of a fan that prefers to look at his toes instead of beyond. These type of Reese apologists are more cheerleading homers - with no timetable.
This draft doesn't put us in the hunt. And next year JPP is gone. And Eli's time clock of efficiency is ticking. We're New York fans with a Superbowl caliber QB. It is aptheti c that we're talking beyond 5 years to even have a decent shot of going back to another superbowl. the GM deserves the blame for this.
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It's a bit frustrating on here that so many Giants fans accept failure as much as we have had to endure over the course of Eli's run
It is equally frustrating on here that so many Giants fans have a lack of perspective. You'd swear we were like the Browns or Lions. You'd swear that this team is one of the worst in the league several years running.
You'd have idea that they own 2 SB's in the past 7 years and that they have 4 overall which puts them in the elite air. People gushed over the Panthers last year. People envy the Eagles playoff appearances.
I've said several times that I'd take a Super Bowl even if it meant a few years of shitty football over getting close and winning shit.
People accept failure because they are keen enough to realize that success has been with this franchise more than the others. Some here come off as if they'd rather make the playoffs every year and not win it all rather than be multiple Super Bowl champs. I'll never understand it.
this imo is blind following. A failure to accept what is evident right before their eyes. - is that we haven't won a super bowl in 4 years. It is actually two super bowls in 8 years -- not 7.
It would be okay if we had some hope for being strong in the future, but do we? Some on here seem to think that making the playoffs once in 5 years is a sign of good management because we won 1 superbowl. the problem with these fans is that they can't look farther than their toes.
We're probably not going to get a whiff of coming close to a superbowl for beyond another 2 years and all this time we had Eli and OBJ. We're letting the window slip though our fingers because of the superbowl win 4 years ago. You don't get Eli Manning's very often.
And please with some of you- can we stop about giving too much credit to reese for 87 and 91. It's laughable this was brought up on this thread. Just yet another example of BLIND BLUE. A poster says for a superbowl win he could then wait a few years for other successes- and I agree- so can I!! the fact is what this poster avoids the hard truth -- IT ALREADY HAS BEEN A FEW YEARS AND NOTHING LOKS LIKE WE"RE CLSOE IS IN SIGHT. This poster is the classic example of a fan that prefers to look at his toes instead of beyond. These type of Reese apologists are more cheerleading homers - with no timetable.
This draft doesn't put us in the hunt. And next year JPP is gone. And Eli's time clock of efficiency is ticking. We're New York fans with a Superbowl caliber QB. It is aptheti c that we're talking beyond 5 years to even have a decent shot of going back to another superbowl. the GM deserves the blame for this.
You sure have all the answers, glad your crystal ball is working so well...
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It's a bit frustrating on here that so many Giants fans accept failure as much as we have had to endure over the course of Eli's run
It is equally frustrating on here that so many Giants fans have a lack of perspective. You'd swear we were like the Browns or Lions. You'd swear that this team is one of the worst in the league several years running.
You'd have idea that they own 2 SB's in the past 7 years and that they have 4 overall which puts them in the elite air. People gushed over the Panthers last year. People envy the Eagles playoff appearances.
I've said several times that I'd take a Super Bowl even if it meant a few years of shitty football over getting close and winning shit.
People accept failure because they are keen enough to realize that success has been with this franchise more than the others. Some here come off as if they'd rather make the playoffs every year and not win it all rather than be multiple Super Bowl champs. I'll never understand it.
this imo is blind following. A failure to accept what is evident right before their eyes. - is that we haven't won a super bowl in 4 years. It is actually two super bowls in 8 years -- not 7.
It would be okay if we had some hope for being strong in the future, but do we? Some on here seem to think that making the playoffs once in 5 years is a sign of good management because we won 1 superbowl. the problem with these fans is that they can't look farther than their toes.
We're probably not going to get a whiff of coming close to a superbowl for beyond another 2 years and all this time we had Eli and OBJ. We're letting the window slip though our fingers because of the superbowl win 4 years ago. You don't get Eli Manning's very often.
And please with some of you- can we stop about giving too much credit to reese for 87 and 91. It's laughable this was brought up on this thread. Just yet another example of BLIND BLUE. A poster says for a superbowl win he could then wait a few years for other successes- and I agree- so can I!! the fact is what this poster avoids the hard truth -- IT ALREADY HAS BEEN A FEW YEARS AND NOTHING LOKS LIKE WE"RE CLSOE IS IN SIGHT. This poster is the classic example of a fan that prefers to look at his toes instead of beyond. These type of Reese apologists are more cheerleading homers - with no timetable.
This draft doesn't put us in the hunt. And next year JPP is gone. And Eli's time clock of efficiency is ticking. We're New York fans with a Superbowl caliber QB. It is aptheti c that we're talking beyond 5 years to even have a decent shot of going back to another superbowl. the GM deserves the blame for this.
If BBI had an award for posting stupid shit, You'd be a serious contender right now.
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It's a bit frustrating on here that so many Giants fans accept failure as much as we have had to endure over the course of Eli's run
It is equally frustrating on here that so many Giants fans have a lack of perspective. You'd swear we were like the Browns or Lions. You'd swear that this team is one of the worst in the league several years running.
You'd have idea that they own 2 SB's in the past 7 years and that they have 4 overall which puts them in the elite air. People gushed over the Panthers last year. People envy the Eagles playoff appearances.
I've said several times that I'd take a Super Bowl even if it meant a few years of shitty football over getting close and winning shit.
People accept failure because they are keen enough to realize that success has been with this franchise more than the others. Some here come off as if they'd rather make the playoffs every year and not win it all rather than be multiple Super Bowl champs. I'll never understand it.
this imo is blind following. A failure to accept what is evident right before their eyes. - is that we haven't won a super bowl in 4 years. It is actually two super bowls in 8 years -- not 7.
It would be okay if we had some hope for being strong in the future, but do we? Some on here seem to think that making the playoffs once in 5 years is a sign of good management because we won 1 superbowl. the problem with these fans is that they can't look farther than their toes.
We're probably not going to get a whiff of coming close to a superbowl for beyond another 2 years and all this time we had Eli and OBJ. We're letting the window slip though our fingers because of the superbowl win 4 years ago. You don't get Eli Manning's very often.
And please with some of you- can we stop about giving too much credit to reese for 87 and 91. It's laughable this was brought up on this thread. Just yet another example of BLIND BLUE. A poster says for a superbowl win he could then wait a few years for other successes- and I agree- so can I!! the fact is what this poster avoids the hard truth -- IT ALREADY HAS BEEN A FEW YEARS AND NOTHING LOKS LIKE WE"RE CLSOE IS IN SIGHT. This poster is the classic example of a fan that prefers to look at his toes instead of beyond. These type of Reese apologists are more cheerleading homers - with no timetable.
This draft doesn't put us in the hunt. And next year JPP is gone. And Eli's time clock of efficiency is ticking. We're New York fans with a Superbowl caliber QB. It is aptheti c that we're talking beyond 5 years to even have a decent shot of going back to another superbowl. the GM deserves the blame for this.
And yet you are same idiot this keeps inventing scenarios that you made up in your mind about JPP not coming back next year. How'd the hell do you know? You don't and neither does anybody else.
But....he did take LESS money to play here this year.
Now...go crawl back in your hole where you belong
And I'm sure Tunsil is a guaranteed HoFer. Just like Robert Gallery.
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In comment 12958355 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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It's a bit frustrating on here that so many Giants fans accept failure as much as we have had to endure over the course of Eli's run
It is equally frustrating on here that so many Giants fans have a lack of perspective. You'd swear we were like the Browns or Lions. You'd swear that this team is one of the worst in the league several years running.
You'd have idea that they own 2 SB's in the past 7 years and that they have 4 overall which puts them in the elite air. People gushed over the Panthers last year. People envy the Eagles playoff appearances.
I've said several times that I'd take a Super Bowl even if it meant a few years of shitty football over getting close and winning shit.
People accept failure because they are keen enough to realize that success has been with this franchise more than the others. Some here come off as if they'd rather make the playoffs every year and not win it all rather than be multiple Super Bowl champs. I'll never understand it.
this imo is blind following. A failure to accept what is evident right before their eyes. - is that we haven't won a super bowl in 4 years. It is actually two super bowls in 8 years -- not 7.
It would be okay if we had some hope for being strong in the future, but do we? Some on here seem to think that making the playoffs once in 5 years is a sign of good management because we won 1 superbowl. the problem with these fans is that they can't look farther than their toes.
We're probably not going to get a whiff of coming close to a superbowl for beyond another 2 years and all this time we had Eli and OBJ. We're letting the window slip though our fingers because of the superbowl win 4 years ago. You don't get Eli Manning's very often.
And please with some of you- can we stop about giving too much credit to reese for 87 and 91. It's laughable this was brought up on this thread. Just yet another example of BLIND BLUE. A poster says for a superbowl win he could then wait a few years for other successes- and I agree- so can I!! the fact is what this poster avoids the hard truth -- IT ALREADY HAS BEEN A FEW YEARS AND NOTHING LOKS LIKE WE"RE CLSOE IS IN SIGHT. This poster is the classic example of a fan that prefers to look at his toes instead of beyond. These type of Reese apologists are more cheerleading homers - with no timetable.
This draft doesn't put us in the hunt. And next year JPP is gone. And Eli's time clock of efficiency is ticking. We're New York fans with a Superbowl caliber QB. It is aptheti c that we're talking beyond 5 years to even have a decent shot of going back to another superbowl. the GM deserves the blame for this.
And yet you are same idiot this keeps inventing scenarios that you made up in your mind about JPP not coming back next year. How'd the hell do you know? You don't and neither does anybody else.
But....he did take LESS money to play here this year.
Now...go crawl back in your hole where you belong
And you're the same blind homer idiot that thinks a one year delay will have anything to do with the next year's decision. go keep burying your head in the sand, kid. homers like you make my skin crawl. I hate homers.
with that said- this isn't a court of law here. sure in an unusual circumstance we can land him back. suppose he has a bad year and is willing to take less for his sub-par year? He could be back under some unusual circumstances like this one and others.
but unlike you homers- I look at reality if he is good. I see a failed team over the past 4 years while the guy in charlotte is okay with giants playing like crap for even more years than the 4 because we won a superbowl in 2011. then he mentions superbowls in 1987 as if we should cheer reese for that now. these comments imo are so pathetic from so called fans like you guys.
I wonder if you kids were old enough to remember the blimp going over Giants stadium a long time ago and the fans chanting "We've had enough!" When are you going to have some guts and say you've had enough? If I'm wrong about JPP - you can gloat and tear me apart. But I see a run of additional years for our team going nowhere beyond a quick 1st round exit. And we had a championship QB and we let it slip away to no longer being close. As a fan YOU DON"T CARE?
But if I'm right, our GM has left us with just one other pass rusher. SO some of you homers say "we'll just get another one in FA." Sure (sarcasm)- we'll let JPP go and then overpay for someone who is worse? and that makes us better? Are some of you people for real?
Anyhow I posted on another thread how I would have done the draft different. A poster slams me that I didn't make the selections at the same time the draft is going on. So if JPP leaves, some of you homers will try to say the same thing if I didn't post it. I'm on record saying JPP is gone if he's good. If he's good we'd be paying too much for the DL. We're not going to do that. IMO those that disagree with this are wrong.
I'm just so disgusted that I see us being mediocre (MAyBE this year we make the playoffs and lose rd 1 then sink in year 2 because our DLINE and OLINE aren't that strong.). SO when you homers like that dude from charlotte keep babbling nonsense that 2011 wasn't that long ago and remind us all that we won in 1987- I get to watch at least another 2 years of mediocre to crap football. As a fan, I hate this while fans like you and charlotte are okay with it. that bugs me at this point. I seem to care about the team while homers like you seem to be more interested in defending this board from anyone that disagrees with you. Here's a newsflash: Its not stupid to say you think JPP is going to leave.
The egotistical nature of some fans is off the charts.
Quote:
In comment 12958419 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 12958355 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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Quote:
It's a bit frustrating on here that so many Giants fans accept failure as much as we have had to endure over the course of Eli's run
It is equally frustrating on here that so many Giants fans have a lack of perspective. You'd swear we were like the Browns or Lions. You'd swear that this team is one of the worst in the league several years running.
You'd have idea that they own 2 SB's in the past 7 years and that they have 4 overall which puts them in the elite air. People gushed over the Panthers last year. People envy the Eagles playoff appearances.
I've said several times that I'd take a Super Bowl even if it meant a few years of shitty football over getting close and winning shit.
People accept failure because they are keen enough to realize that success has been with this franchise more than the others. Some here come off as if they'd rather make the playoffs every year and not win it all rather than be multiple Super Bowl champs. I'll never understand it.
this imo is blind following. A failure to accept what is evident right before their eyes. - is that we haven't won a super bowl in 4 years. It is actually two super bowls in 8 years -- not 7.
It would be okay if we had some hope for being strong in the future, but do we? Some on here seem to think that making the playoffs once in 5 years is a sign of good management because we won 1 superbowl. the problem with these fans is that they can't look farther than their toes.
We're probably not going to get a whiff of coming close to a superbowl for beyond another 2 years and all this time we had Eli and OBJ. We're letting the window slip though our fingers because of the superbowl win 4 years ago. You don't get Eli Manning's very often.
And please with some of you- can we stop about giving too much credit to reese for 87 and 91. It's laughable this was brought up on this thread. Just yet another example of BLIND BLUE. A poster says for a superbowl win he could then wait a few years for other successes- and I agree- so can I!! the fact is what this poster avoids the hard truth -- IT ALREADY HAS BEEN A FEW YEARS AND NOTHING LOKS LIKE WE"RE CLSOE IS IN SIGHT. This poster is the classic example of a fan that prefers to look at his toes instead of beyond. These type of Reese apologists are more cheerleading homers - with no timetable.
This draft doesn't put us in the hunt. And next year JPP is gone. And Eli's time clock of efficiency is ticking. We're New York fans with a Superbowl caliber QB. It is aptheti c that we're talking beyond 5 years to even have a decent shot of going back to another superbowl. the GM deserves the blame for this.
And yet you are same idiot this keeps inventing scenarios that you made up in your mind about JPP not coming back next year. How'd the hell do you know? You don't and neither does anybody else.
But....he did take LESS money to play here this year.
Now...go crawl back in your hole where you belong
And you're the same blind homer idiot that thinks a one year delay will have anything to do with the next year's decision. go keep burying your head in the sand, kid. homers like you make my skin crawl. I hate homers.
with that said- this isn't a court of law here. sure in an unusual circumstance we can land him back. suppose he has a bad year and is willing to take less for his sub-par year? He could be back under some unusual circumstances like this one and others.
but unlike you homers- I look at reality if he is good. I see a failed team over the past 4 years while the guy in charlotte is okay with giants playing like crap for even more years than the 4 because we won a superbowl in 2011. then he mentions superbowls in 1987 as if we should cheer reese for that now. these comments imo are so pathetic from so called fans like you guys.
I wonder if you kids were old enough to remember the blimp going over Giants stadium a long time ago and the fans chanting "We've had enough!" When are you going to have some guts and say you've had enough? If I'm wrong about JPP - you can gloat and tear me apart. But I see a run of additional years for our team going nowhere beyond a quick 1st round exit. And we had a championship QB and we let it slip away to no longer being close. As a fan YOU DON"T CARE?
But if I'm right, our GM has left us with just one other pass rusher. SO some of you homers say "we'll just get another one in FA." Sure (sarcasm)- we'll let JPP go and then overpay for someone who is worse? and that makes us better? Are some of you people for real?
Anyhow I posted on another thread how I would have done the draft different. A poster slams me that I didn't make the selections at the same time the draft is going on. So if JPP leaves, some of you homers will try to say the same thing if I didn't post it. I'm on record saying JPP is gone if he's good. If he's good we'd be paying too much for the DL. We're not going to do that. IMO those that disagree with this are wrong.
I'm just so disgusted that I see us being mediocre (MAyBE this year we make the playoffs and lose rd 1 then sink in year 2 because our DLINE and OLINE aren't that strong.). SO when you homers like that dude from charlotte keep babbling nonsense that 2011 wasn't that long ago and remind us all that we won in 1987- I get to watch at least another 2 years of mediocre to crap football. As a fan, I hate this while fans like you and charlotte are okay with it. that bugs me at this point. I seem to care about the team while homers like you seem to be more interested in defending this board from anyone that disagrees with you. Here's a newsflash: Its not stupid to say you think JPPis going to leave.
Please state exactly how you know he is leaving?
State specifics..l
Quote:
In comment 12958455 phillygiant said:
Quote:
In comment 12958419 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 12958355 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Quote:
It's a bit frustrating on here that so many Giants fans accept failure as much as we have had to endure over the course of Eli's run
It is equally frustrating on here that so many Giants fans have a lack of perspective. You'd swear we were like the Browns or Lions. You'd swear that this team is one of the worst in the league several years running.
You'd have idea that they own 2 SB's in the past 7 years and that they have 4 overall which puts them in the elite air. People gushed over the Panthers last year. People envy the Eagles playoff appearances.
I've said several times that I'd take a Super Bowl even if it meant a few years of shitty football over getting close and winning shit.
People accept failure because they are keen enough to realize that success has been with this franchise more than the others. Some here come off as if they'd rather make the playoffs every year and not win it all rather than be multiple Super Bowl champs. I'll never understand it.
this imo is blind following. A failure to accept what is evident right before their eyes. - is that we haven't won a super bowl in 4 years. It is actually two super bowls in 8 years -- not 7.
It would be okay if we had some hope for being strong in the future, but do we? Some on here seem to think that making the playoffs once in 5 years is a sign of good management because we won 1 superbowl. the problem with these fans is that they can't look farther than their toes.
We're probably not going to get a whiff of coming close to a superbowl for beyond another 2 years and all this time we had Eli and OBJ. We're letting the window slip though our fingers because of the superbowl win 4 years ago. You don't get Eli Manning's very often.
And please with some of you- can we stop about giving too much credit to reese for 87 and 91. It's laughable this was brought up on this thread. Just yet another example of BLIND BLUE. A poster says for a superbowl win he could then wait a few years for other successes- and I agree- so can I!! the fact is what this poster avoids the hard truth -- IT ALREADY HAS BEEN A FEW YEARS AND NOTHING LOKS LIKE WE"RE CLSOE IS IN SIGHT. This poster is the classic example of a fan that prefers to look at his toes instead of beyond. These type of Reese apologists are more cheerleading homers - with no timetable.
This draft doesn't put us in the hunt. And next year JPP is gone. And Eli's time clock of efficiency is ticking. We're New York fans with a Superbowl caliber QB. It is aptheti c that we're talking beyond 5 years to even have a decent shot of going back to another superbowl. the GM deserves the blame for this.
And yet you are same idiot this keeps inventing scenarios that you made up in your mind about JPP not coming back next year. How'd the hell do you know? You don't and neither does anybody else.
But....he did take LESS money to play here this year.
Now...go crawl back in your hole where you belong
And you're the same blind homer idiot that thinks a one year delay will have anything to do with the next year's decision. go keep burying your head in the sand, kid. homers like you make my skin crawl. I hate homers.
with that said- this isn't a court of law here. sure in an unusual circumstance we can land him back. suppose he has a bad year and is willing to take less for his sub-par year? He could be back under some unusual circumstances like this one and others.
but unlike you homers- I look at reality if he is good. I see a failed team over the past 4 years while the guy in charlotte is okay with giants playing like crap for even more years than the 4 because we won a superbowl in 2011. then he mentions superbowls in 1987 as if we should cheer reese for that now. these comments imo are so pathetic from so called fans like you guys.
I wonder if you kids were old enough to remember the blimp going over Giants stadium a long time ago and the fans chanting "We've had enough!" When are you going to have some guts and say you've had enough? If I'm wrong about JPP - you can gloat and tear me apart. But I see a run of additional years for our team going nowhere beyond a quick 1st round exit. And we had a championship QB and we let it slip away to no longer being close. As a fan YOU DON"T CARE?
But if I'm right, our GM has left us with just one other pass rusher. SO some of you homers say "we'll just get another one in FA." Sure (sarcasm)- we'll let JPP go and then overpay for someone who is worse? and that makes us better? Are some of you people for real?
Anyhow I posted on another thread how I would have done the draft different. A poster slams me that I didn't make the selections at the same time the draft is going on. So if JPP leaves, some of you homers will try to say the same thing if I didn't post it. I'm on record saying JPP is gone if he's good. If he's good we'd be paying too much for the DL. We're not going to do that. IMO those that disagree with this are wrong.
I'm just so disgusted that I see us being mediocre (MAyBE this year we make the playoffs and lose rd 1 then sink in year 2 because our DLINE and OLINE aren't that strong.). SO when you homers like that dude from charlotte keep babbling nonsense that 2011 wasn't that long ago and remind us all that we won in 1987- I get to watch at least another 2 years of mediocre to crap football. As a fan, I hate this while fans like you and charlotte are okay with it. that bugs me at this point. I seem to care about the team while homers like you seem to be more interested in defending this board from anyone that disagrees with you. Here's a newsflash: Its not stupid to say you think JPPis going to leave.
Please state exactly how you know he is leaving?
State specifics..l
Already said it. you recognize/realize that we aren't in a court of law, right?
If he has a subpar year he can come back because his salary won't be prohibitive. If he has a good year- he is going to want to get paid to his market value. the Giants are already paying fortune for their defensive line. they aren't going to throw huge bucks at another DL player.
JPP is going to want big bucks. Shelf life for the NFL overall making big bucks is not long. He gave us one year delay. Many of you are mistakingly thinking that if he is good - out of the goodness of his heart he is going to give a big discount. Without a big discount - if he plays well- we're going to pay a huge amount of money for the O-Line? I think not.
Now that I've answered your question - may I ask you one? Since 2011 we have been pretty abysmal. One year 9-7, one year 7-9 and two 6-10's.
How many more years of not being a threat going to the superbowl (ie get in the NFC championship game or be favored to get in there) do you accept to take while having a starting QB like Manning before you blame the GM for being incompetent?
I'm like that other poster charolotte. . .. We won- 2-3 years I'm okay. But now it's year 4-- and I still see us as nothing but fodder. It's not like you can say we aren't supposed to be fodder. LAs Vegas ods indicate it. OFC we can be more -- but don't shoot the messenger if eh thinking the odds vegas is giving is about right - which means we will be nothing but fodder.
then to read some of the homers on here try to twist that and accept such mediocrity/ awful play- imo it is mind-boggling. it's as though after 2011 we've reverted back to the incompetent 70's. We've had Manning. We shouldn't be this bad over the past 4 years but imo we're going nowhere for at least 6.