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Benton: Did Reese Outsmart Most by Selecting Eli Apple?

gidiefor : Mod : 5/13/2016 11:16 am
Quote:
Stats from Pro Football Focus and NFL Draft Report show that in 13 games last season, Hargreaves was targeted 53 times. On those 53 targets, he gave up 29 receptions for 451 yards and two touchdowns. That also accounts for a quarterback accuracy of nearly 55% and an average yards per catch of 15.55 (8.51 per target).

Those aren’t terrible numbers, but that’s where the vast difference between Apple and Hargreaves begins. Comparatively, Apple was targeted 67 times in his 13 games last season, giving up only 14 receptions for 104 yards and 0 touchdowns. That also equals a completion percentage of 20.9 percent, second only to Mackensie Alexander (16.95 percent), and an average yards per catch of 7.43 (1.55 per attempt, which was the lowest of any draft-eligible cornerback).

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RE: He outsmarted them so much  
Rflairr : 5/13/2016 9:11 pm : link
In comment 12957091 PA Giant Fan said:
Quote:
That teams jumped in front of the Giants to pick someone other then Apple....


Yeah the Titans and Bears. Not exactly teams with GMs with proven track records.
RE: RE: ESPN showed a number of negative playes by Hargreaves  
barens : 5/13/2016 10:50 pm : link
In comment 12956676 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
In comment 12956657 ZogZerg said:


Quote:


when he was drafted. They showed a couple where he quit on the play. Not a good look.

There was absolutely no way of telling if he was expecting help deep in that play...just saying.



Plus he quit & was beaten like a drum in an entire game (Citrus Bowl).


What Torrag said  
Bluesbreaker : 5/14/2016 10:14 am : link
It remains to be seen ...
Hargreaves is a fucken baller ..
I am sure BSPN can compile a Negative tape
on any Draft Choice not named LT.
I hope Apple turns out to be a shut down all pro
but I sure don't see it on the tape thats
available to all us arm chair GM's
If he isn't holding he is face guarding and
doesn't look at all fluid going after the ball .
Oh and his tackling leaves much to be desired .
Apple  
Dragon : 5/14/2016 10:14 am : link
Is going to experience some growing pains as all rookies do. I don't care about the guys the media says we wanted I wanted Apple at that point in the draft with a bit of Tunsil risk factor to great. I've said it several times this kid checks all the boxes we look at I n the first round at a position of need. Will he be Revis maybe not but even Revis gets beaten he just needs to be the best Eli Apple NYG CB he can be. He holds a bit to much needs to tackle better is lacking some experience is there anything else missing? Apple is just beginning to learn all of the tricks of his trade but he has every tool you could ask for to mold into a very good player.
Bluesbreaker  
XBRONX : 5/14/2016 10:28 am : link
Tell us about the video where Apple has the receivers well covered and the QB doesnt throw it his way.
area junc  
XBRONX : 5/14/2016 10:52 am : link
You talk about turnovers. Vernon had one interception the last eight games of last year. Watch the video of that one INT against Georgia so we can laugh together.
RE: Apple has almost  
sam the rifle : 5/14/2016 11:30 am : link
In comment 12956607 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
incredible hips for a corner his size. He flips them like nickel, but he's full sized. I don't think you can teach that. And he's only 20.


You could see it at the Combine drills. Apple was as smooth & fluid as a cheetah. To me he was very impressive & I was really excited when the Giants drafted him.
Eli  
JPinstripes : 5/14/2016 11:39 am : link
will be fine.
RE: It's been funny to see posters make themselves look silly  
sb from NYT Forum : 5/14/2016 12:17 pm : link
In comment 12956758 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
for hating the pick simply because Apple wasn't as much of a big name as Hargreaves.


Seems a no brainer. Between two first round CBs, you take the taller faster one.

I just hope McAdoo's staff is better at teaching and developing talent. Coughlin's seemed more "just execute your assignments" type staff.
I would have taken Hargreaves over Apple, or Tunsil,  
BlueLou : 5/14/2016 1:54 pm : link
but no way do I think I know more than the Giants' pro talent evaluators. If Reese has done anything at all right, it's his first and second round draft picks with the exception of Randle, who I didn't like right when they drafted him. I liked Sanu more, and he didn't turn into any hot thing either...
BTW. I liked Hargreaves more as a free safety to make use of his skill  
BlueLou : 5/14/2016 1:56 pm : link
facing the QB. Reminds me of Earl Thomas.
I was shocked by the pick  
Fish : 5/14/2016 2:53 pm : link
Reese fooled me and everyone else. After reading everything about Apple on BBI I have made a decision Apple is our OBJ on defense. Going to be an awesome draft choice for us.
Always hear  
Fish : 5/14/2016 2:58 pm : link
If tunsil is an all pro well what if he is Robert gallery then Apple will be a great pick. Same with Floyd, what if Floyd is Clint Sintim. On paper people think tunsil is next Orlando pace and Floyd is next great LB. No one knows.
RE: turnovers  
speedywheels : 5/14/2016 3:36 pm : link
In comment 12957023 area junc said:
Quote:
the problem is - the NFL game is about turnovers. Hargreaves takes the ball, Apple doesn't.


When is the Davis deal happening?!?!
RE: RE: turnovers  
Fish : 5/14/2016 3:53 pm : link
In comment 12957731 speedywheels said:
Quote:
In comment 12957023 area junc said:


Quote:


the problem is - the NFL game is about turnovers. Hargreaves takes the ball, Apple doesn't.



When is the Davis deal happening?!?!


At 20 years old maybe he turns into a turnover guy or maybe he takes away half the field like Revis. I'd take either.
RE: I am usually critival of Reese  
Randy in CT : 5/14/2016 3:54 pm : link
In comment 12956710 Paulie Walnuts said:
Quote:
but he picked the right guy, I didnt want Hargreaves
this entire draft is growing on me
Slappy, I agree with you.
RE: turnovers  
David in LA : 5/14/2016 4:03 pm : link
In comment 12957023 area junc said:
Quote:
the problem is - the NFL game is about turnovers. Hargreaves takes the ball, Apple doesn't.


That's all moot if you also give up big plays by taking risks. We already have a risk taker in Janoris Jenkins, we don't need 2.

What's the latest info from Baalke? Clown.
The draft really mystifies me. Or I should say people's reactions  
j_rud : 5/14/2016 5:17 pm : link
mystify me. If you're a football fan who follows the game and watches the draft every year then you should know there are only two certainties you can take away from it: the teams boards differ greatly from the prevailing media wisdom, and regardless of pre-draft opinion you ever know who will be a star and who will be a bust. Every year we see "sure-things" struggle and unexpected prospects tearing it up as surprise starters. Guys with "absolutely no chance of falling out of the top 10 inevitably do. And guys with all kinds of flags or concerns about measurables end up on the All Rookie team. It happens year in, year out. And it basically means that we as fans know next to nothing about a prospect or draft class as a whole.

Yet every year we see people doing their Chicken Little routine, guaranteeing the team will regret ______, Player X will be a star while Player Y is a guaranteed bust. And they say these things with a certainty usually reserved for death and taxes. You would think people would learn. You would think common sense would prevail. And alas, you'd be wrong. Cuz like a Grandpop used to say, "Jason, the thing about common sense is that it isn't all that common..."
RE: The draft really mystifies me. Or I should say people's reactions  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/14/2016 5:25 pm : link
In comment 12957789 j_rud said:
Quote:
mystify me. If you're a football fan who follows the game and watches the draft every year then you should know there are only two certainties you can take away from it: the teams boards differ greatly from the prevailing media wisdom, and regardless of pre-draft opinion you ever know who will be a star and who will be a bust. Every year we see "sure-things" struggle and unexpected prospects tearing it up as surprise starters. Guys with "absolutely no chance of falling out of the top 10 inevitably do. And guys with all kinds of flags or concerns about measurables end up on the All Rookie team. It happens year in, year out. And it basically means that we as fans know next to nothing about a prospect or draft class as a whole.

Yet every year we see people doing their Chicken Little routine, guaranteeing the team will regret ______, Player X will be a star while Player Y is a guaranteed bust. And they say these things with a certainty usually reserved for death and taxes. You would think people would learn. You would think common sense would prevail. And alas, you'd be wrong. Cuz like a Grandpop used to say, "Jason, the thing about common sense is that it isn't all that common..."


I agree. The best is these handful of seasons we see a bunch of posts being made about how good each of those drafts will be, and we've seen the results of that.
Well said  
Fish : 5/14/2016 5:31 pm : link
j_rud
RE: Apple  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/14/2016 5:40 pm : link
In comment 12957556 Dragon said:
Quote:
Is going to experience some growing pains as all rookies do. I don't care about the guys the media says we wanted I wanted Apple at that point in the draft with a bit of Tunsil risk factor to great. I've said it several times this kid checks all the boxes we look at I n the first round at a position of need. Will he be Revis maybe not but even Revis gets beaten he just needs to be the best Eli Apple NYG CB he can be. He holds a bit to much needs to tackle better is lacking some experience is there anything else missing? Apple is just beginning to learn all of the tricks of his trade but he has every tool you could ask for to mold into a very good player.

Did you ever learn about run-on sentences in school or is this just a stream of consciousness are we supposed to decode your post because you're too lazy to write properly can you try to do better?
I just watched  
Fish : 5/14/2016 5:56 pm : link
Something on Stef curry. Come out of college all the pundits said he was small and players like Brandon Jennings, Teague had more upside. All the pundits are adamant when they speak which leads one to believe the crap they are spewing.
RE: RE: Apple has almost  
NYDCBlue : 5/15/2016 1:30 pm : link
In comment 12957602 sam the rifle said:
Quote:
In comment 12956607 Phil in LA said:


Quote:


incredible hips for a corner his size. He flips them like nickel, but he's full sized. I don't think you can teach that. And he's only 20.



You could see it at the Combine drills. Apple was as smooth & fluid as a cheetah. To me he was very impressive & I was really excited when the Giants drafted him.


Guys, it sure does not show on that Giants.com video with Apple and Thompson doing DB drills at rookie minicamp. I was shocked at just how much smoother the Safety third rounder looked in every aspect of the drill. Worst of all, he even back pedaled slower than the safety. Apple covered less ground during the drill. He as less far down field. Thompson, who was described as stiff in the hips by the draft bloviators was also much smoother flipping his hips, turning, and chasing the ball over his head.
RE: RE: RE: Apple has almost  
drkenneth : 5/15/2016 2:12 pm : link
In comment 12958267 NYDCBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 12957602 sam the rifle said:


Quote:


In comment 12956607 Phil in LA said:


Quote:


incredible hips for a corner his size. He flips them like nickel, but he's full sized. I don't think you can teach that. And he's only 20.



You could see it at the Combine drills. Apple was as smooth & fluid as a cheetah. To me he was very impressive & I was really excited when the Giants drafted him.



Guys, it sure does not show on that Giants.com video with Apple and Thompson doing DB drills at rookie minicamp. I was shocked at just how much smoother the Safety third rounder looked in every aspect of the drill. Worst of all, he even back pedaled slower than the safety. Apple covered less ground during the drill. He as less far down field. Thompson, who was described as stiff in the hips by the draft bloviators was also much smoother flipping his hips, turning, and chasing the ball over his head.


You got all this, from a Giants.com video? You serious?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Apple has almost  
NYDCBlue : 5/15/2016 5:00 pm : link
In comment 12958301 drkenneth said:
Quote:
In comment 12958267 NYDCBlue said:


Quote:


In comment 12957602 sam the rifle said:


Quote:


In comment 12956607 Phil in LA said:


Quote:


incredible hips for a corner his size. He flips them like nickel, but he's full sized. I don't think you can teach that. And he's only 20.



You could see it at the Combine drills. Apple was as smooth & fluid as a cheetah. To me he was very impressive & I was really excited when the Giants drafted him.



Guys, it sure does not show on that Giants.com video with Apple and Thompson doing DB drills at rookie minicamp. I was shocked at just how much smoother the Safety third rounder looked in every aspect of the drill. Worst of all, he even back pedaled slower than the safety. Apple covered less ground during the drill. He as less far down field. Thompson, who was described as stiff in the hips by the draft bloviators was also much smoother flipping his hips, turning, and chasing the ball over his head.



You got all this, from a Giants.com video? You serious?


Am I having a heart attack? No? But it is pretty much all the video of them in Giants action we have, and there wasn't much else to talk about.... Sure I hyped it up a little, but this is a discussion forum. Maybe Apple was not going all out? Who knows.... Just bringing up what I noticed.
Xbronx  
Bluesbreaker : 5/16/2016 12:06 pm : link
Bluesbreaker
XBRONX : 5/14/2016 10:28 am : link : reply
Tell us about the video where Apple has the receivers well covered and the QB doesnt throw it his way.

The Debate will be three years down the Road
Between Apple and Hargraves I Agree that when
they went at Apple many times he was Right there
to Defend But it seemed nearly every time there
was Questionable Holding Questionable illegal Contact
and Pass Interference .
What I Don't see are Forced Turnovers by Fumbling
or Interception's .
I Don't see a Good Tackler . What I do See is
a Guy who Doesn't Stick his Nose in Run Defense
who actually back pedals to avoid contact .
He isn't a Revis , not even close Revis is
very good in Run support .
However to his Credit most of the time he is in
the WR hip Pocket but doesn't have his eye
on the Ball He seems to Rely on the WR Eyes and
Movement's to break up the Play .
NFL Mock Data Base that Lists Mock Draft Picks
to every Notable Football expert in the Country
we are talking about up to 300 and I moticed
Only one of them Mock Apple at #10
That Certainly Tells me he very well could be
a reach at #10 and to me If your picking the
10th best player in the Country he damn well
should start and be an Above Average Player
at his Position .
Lastly I live and Die with the Giants
He Apple seems to be a Good Kid and I hope
he succeeds .
I think Hargreaves is a Baller and would have been
a Perfect Fit in the Slot thats very inportant
in Todays Game .
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