for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Last Chance for Eli to Solidify Legacy

Cruzin : 5/15/2016 12:39 pm
Eli Manning has been a little brother, a Super Bowl MVP, a punchline, a Hall of Famer and an afterthought. Ten years into his roller-coaster career, I wrote that Manning was about to settle his legacy once and for all.

The two regular seasons since then have been the highest-rated, losingest, least celebrated and most spectacular of his career.

While he and Odell Beckham Jr. re-wrote history together, their New York Giants turned in forgettable back-to-back six-win seasons. Somehow, Manning made his all-over-the-place legacy even more complex and uncertain.




Meanwhile, his contemporaries in quarterbacking greatness added Pro Bowls, postseason triumphs and Super Bowl w to their alrMeanwhile, his contemporaries in quarterbacking greatness added Pro Bowls, postseason triumphs and Super Bowl wins to their already lengthy resumes. When we talk about the greats of this era—Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger and, of course, his older brother—Manning is losing a battle with Tony Romo to be the "Oh, and [that guy]" belatedly thrown in the conversation.eady lengthy resumes. When we talk about the greats of this era—Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger and, of course, his older brother—Manning is losing a battle with Tony Romo to be the "Oh, and [that guy]" belatedly thrown in the conversation.

Manning's reputation has been nearly the inverse of his big brother's: He's a streaky, up-and-down passer in the regular season who always seems to come up huge in the playoffs. After his second Super Bowl victory, many wondered if Eli might be the better of the two.

Though the notion is still brought up every once in a while, it's done with more of a wink each time—and given his elder brother's ring-capped run of statistical success in Denver, it's impossible to make a serious argument for the younger brother.

Lonk - ( New Window )
Apologies for not checking the CD for skips  
Cruzin : 5/15/2016 12:43 pm : link

in the 4th paragraph. Technical difficulties with my copy and paste.
He's a great, non-stat QB who despite  
Big Blue '56 : 5/15/2016 12:44 pm : link
being possibly hamstrung by one of, if not, the most complex run O in the league for 10 years and STILL managed to win it all twice in two of the most clutch playoff runs in HISTORY...

And to think I wanted him gone several times before he won me over for good starting with the 2007 season-finale against the undefeated Pats..
RE: He's a great, non-stat QB who despite  
Big Blue '56 : 5/15/2016 12:45 pm : link
In comment 12958207 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
being possibly hamstrung by one of, if not, the most complex run O in the league for 10 years and STILL managed to win it all twice in two of the most clutch playoff runs in HISTORY...

And to think I wanted him gone several times before he won me over for good starting with the 2007 season-finale against the undefeated Pats..


And this "not-stat" QB may wind up in the upper echelon of all-time stats after all is said and done
This is an enormous season in Eli's career  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 5/15/2016 12:50 pm : link
He needs to carry us to the playoffs .
People used to question Jeter's greatness, too.  
bceagle05 : 5/15/2016 12:51 pm : link
People are idiots.
I think there is as much pressure on Spags  
Jay on the Island : 5/15/2016 12:57 pm : link
as there is on Eli. There is enough talent on defense that should equate to a top 10-15 defense. If they can finish in that range and Eli plays as well as he did last year then they should easily get into the playoffs. Spags needs some of that 2007-2008 magic because there are no excuses after the additions of Vernon, Harrison, Jenkins, Apple, Robinson, Goodson, Thompson, Sheppard, and the healthy returns of Hankins, Kennard, Berhe, Jackson, Thompson, and JPP.
He could retire tomorrow  
SanFranNowNCGiantsFan : 5/15/2016 1:01 pm : link
& his legacy will be 2 Super Bowls, a ton of clutch plays, & a class act who represented his franchise well.

Not a bad legacy.
I doubt 2016  
mrvax : 5/15/2016 1:04 pm : link
will be Eli's last chance. He has not "lost a step" at all yet.

No excuses though. Barring the crazy injuries, this team has plenty of talent (on paper) to get the job done and at least make the playoffs.
RE: He's a great, non-stat QB who despite  
CaptSehorn : 5/15/2016 1:08 pm : link
In comment 12958207 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
being possibly hamstrung by one of, if not, the most complex run O in the league for 10 years and STILL managed to win it all


I disagree. With regard to the Gilbride offense, I subscribe to the Italian super car analogy. When it's running in tune, it's a thing of beauty. Unrivaled performance. However this is a fragile thing, and once a part or two fails , you can't go anywhere.

There are many valid criticisms of the KG offense, but when it was clicking (as it was on those SB runs) it was hard to defend. The option routes flummoxed some very good defenses. They didn't win in spite of it, on the contrary it was a driver of success.
Eli Manning  
spike : 5/15/2016 1:12 pm : link
is also Iron Man.

Ok, not Tony Stark but still 2nd only to Favre
If Eli  
PaulN : 5/15/2016 1:16 pm : link
Can stay healthy, and that is a big if, I think he has 3-5 real good years left in him. I agree this is a huge year for Eli, but it is a huge year for the Giants franchise.

They need to get into the playoffs, I love Tom but he should have been gone two years ago, but I completely understand ownerships reluctance to letting him go. Even this season after 2 6 win seasons there was plenty of complaints about it and a lot of Reese hatred over it.

It is about time that this team had some luck with injuries, and I hope they have some luck with this head coach hire, they deserve that much. I also think that Spags has a lot on the line too, like others feel.

All this points to a hopeful season. I am more excited about this season then I have been for a few seasons now. I like that the Giants took a chance and picked up some young and talented free agents, I like this draft very much, and I also like some of the undrafted free agents the team brought in.

I have high hopes that this head coach has a really good idea of exactly how he wants to run this offense, I believe he will lean on Spags to run this defense, and I think Reese had a lot to prove this off season and worked really hard to make it a success, let's hope this all adds up to some significant progress.
RE: RE: He's a great, non-stat QB who despite  
Big Blue '56 : 5/15/2016 1:21 pm : link
In comment 12958241 CaptSehorn said:
Quote:
In comment 12958207 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


being possibly hamstrung by one of, if not, the most complex run O in the league for 10 years and STILL managed to win it all



I disagree. With regard to the Gilbride offense, I subscribe to the Italian super car analogy. When it's running in tune, it's a thing of beauty. Unrivaled performance. However this is a fragile thing, and once a part or two fails , you can't go anywhere.

There are many valid criticisms of the KG offense, but when it was clicking (as it was on those SB runs) it was hard to defend. The option routes flummoxed some very good defenses. They didn't win in spite of it, on the contrary it was a driver of success.


Perhaps I should have expounded more..I loved KG's offense..I'm just trying to point out that statistically, it wasn't conducive to cumulative stats, imv..For example, when you throw many intermediate to long passes in lieu of safe and short routes, safety valves and screens, you're not going to help your stat page completion-wise. You're also going to chance/throw more picks, also affecting one's stat page..
RE: RE: RE: He's a great, non-stat QB who despite  
Jay on the Island : 5/15/2016 1:29 pm : link
In comment 12958254 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 12958241 CaptSehorn said:


Quote:


In comment 12958207 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


being possibly hamstrung by one of, if not, the most complex run O in the league for 10 years and STILL managed to win it all



I disagree. With regard to the Gilbride offense, I subscribe to the Italian super car analogy. When it's running in tune, it's a thing of beauty. Unrivaled performance. However this is a fragile thing, and once a part or two fails , you can't go anywhere.

There are many valid criticisms of the KG offense, but when it was clicking (as it was on those SB runs) it was hard to defend. The option routes flummoxed some very good defenses. They didn't win in spite of it, on the contrary it was a driver of success.



Perhaps I should have expounded more..I loved KG's offense..I'm just trying to point out that statistically, it wasn't conducive to cumulative stats, imv..For example, when you throw many intermediate to long passes in lieu of safe and short routes, safety valves and screens, you're not going to help your stat page completion-wise. You're also going to chance/throw more picks, also affecting one's stat page..

You are absolutely right there is no way Eli was going to have a high completion percentage in Gilbride's offense because of the high number of deep passes that were called.
RE: RE: RE: He's a great, non-stat QB who despite  
CaptSehorn : 5/15/2016 1:31 pm : link
In comment 12958254 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 12958241 CaptSehorn said:


Quote:


In comment 12958207 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


being possibly hamstrung by one of, if not, the most complex run O in the league for 10 years and STILL managed to win it all



I disagree. With regard to the Gilbride offense, I subscribe to the Italian super car analogy. When it's running in tune, it's a thing of beauty. Unrivaled performance. However this is a fragile thing, and once a part or two fails , you can't go anywhere.

There are many valid criticisms of the KG offense, but when it was clicking (as it was on those SB runs) it was hard to defend. The option routes flummoxed some very good defenses. They didn't win in spite of it, on the contrary it was a driver of success.



Perhaps I should have expounded more..I loved KG's offense..I'm just trying to point out that statistically, it wasn't conducive to cumulative stats, imv..For example, when you throw many intermediate to long passes in lieu of safe and short routes, safety valves and screens, you're not going to help your stat page completion-wise. You're also going to chance/throw more picks, also affecting one's stat page..


Gotcha, completely agree. Plus OL that can't sustain protection on 7 step drop, wrs that make incorrect reads and leave ab out to dry, etc etc. Not conducive to gaudy stats.
Huh? Eli's legacy is already secure as a great QB  
dpinzow : 5/15/2016 1:42 pm : link
2 Super Bowl MVPs. The only change that would occur if he won a third SB would be a change from "top 30" QB of all time to "top 10 QB of all time"
Back to the OP, I can definitely see another chance  
Jimmy Googs : 5/15/2016 1:46 pm : link
for Eli to make it back to the dance before he is done.

But does he have another "playoff run" in him to bring home his 3rd Lombardi?

Looking forward to seeing receiving options open up all over the field for him this season with OBJ, Shepard, Cruz, Pierce, Vareen and Jennings creating havoc...
My bad...make that Perkins  
Jimmy Googs : 5/15/2016 1:48 pm : link
.
And then next year will be his last chance  
AP in Halfmoon : 5/15/2016 1:52 pm : link
And then the year after, etc. Eli's legacy will be fine
Big  
Toth029 : 5/15/2016 2:42 pm : link
Ben is a great player but why he's constantly lumped in with someone who hasn't been as erratic is hilarious. He's had a collection of the top receivers and defenses for his whole career.
He's already got WAY better stats than most people realize  
David B. : 5/15/2016 3:04 pm : link
His numbers are already in the top 20 of all time, and before he's done, he's gonna be in the top 10. These are HOF numbers WITHOUT the 2 SB MVPs. In fact, he already has better stats than many QBs in the HOF, but by the time he's done, he's gonna have top 10 numbers in Yards, TDs and every other important stat. As for the INTs, there are guys in the HOF with similar INT numbers. Favre threw a shitload.

They may make him wait, but Eli IS going to be in the HOF. His numbers will be undeniable.

None of this is going to matter to the haters, but a 3rd SB would either shut them up, or make their grips be more laughable .
Another reason why the Giants  
prdave73 : 5/15/2016 3:22 pm : link
Need to fortify the right side of the Oline..
I am an Eli fan...  
EricJ : 5/15/2016 3:29 pm : link
and even though I have documented his weaknesses (mobility, occasional bone head games), he is the best QB we have had in my lifetime.

Eli is not a QB that can put a team on his shoulders and pull them through a season, into the playoffs and win a Championship. He DOES need the other parts around him. There is nothing wrong with that because in the end every QB needs that too.

What Eli is.... is cool under pressure which helps him to be able to take advantage of those moments when he, his team and his coaches put him in position to be able to make that special play.

We saw that Eli simply cannot get it done when he has no defense and a piss poor O-line. That is not a knock because no QB in history was going to win with our team the past couple of years.
RE: I am an Eli fan...  
Devon : 5/15/2016 4:03 pm : link
In comment 12958351 EricJ said:
Quote:
and even though I have documented his weaknesses (mobility, occasional bone head games), he is the best QB we have had in my lifetime.

Eli is not a QB that can put a team on his shoulders and pull them through a season, into the playoffs and win a Championship. He DOES need the other parts around him. There is nothing wrong with that because in the end every QB needs that too.

What Eli is.... is cool under pressure which helps him to be able to take advantage of those moments when he, his team and his coaches put him in position to be able to make that special play.

We saw that Eli simply cannot get it done when he has no defense and a piss poor O-line. That is not a knock because no QB in history was going to win with our team the past couple of years.


Except Eli did this as much as almost any QB has.

I can be critical of him and his flaws (or perhaps better put realistic about how he's perceived), but how he'll never get the real credit he deserves for 2011 even from Giant fans is some shit.

RE: RE: I am an Eli fan...  
EricJ : 5/15/2016 4:32 pm : link
In comment 12958385 Devon said:
Quote:
In comment 12958351 EricJ said:


Quote:


and even though I have documented his weaknesses (mobility, occasional bone head games), he is the best QB we have had in my lifetime.

Eli is not a QB that can put a team on his shoulders and pull them through a season, into the playoffs and win a Championship. He DOES need the other parts around him. There is nothing wrong with that because in the end every QB needs that too.

What Eli is.... is cool under pressure which helps him to be able to take advantage of those moments when he, his team and his coaches put him in position to be able to make that special play.

We saw that Eli simply cannot get it done when he has no defense and a piss poor O-line. That is not a knock because no QB in history was going to win with our team the past couple of years.



Except Eli did this as much as almost any QB has.

I can be critical of him and his flaws (or perhaps better put realistic about how he's perceived), but how he'll never get the real credit he deserves for 2011 even from Giant fans is some shit.


First of all, in the sentence just prior I said Eli was the best QB the Giants have had in my lifetime. Now, since you brought up 2011.... the Giants did not have WRs and a running game? They had no defense? This is not to say that those other facets carried Eli. My point was that he is not a QB that can put it all on his shoulders and carry them through. He sure tries but when he does not have quality around him then he cannot do it. The past two years are the perfect example. Like I said... not many QBs can.
In 2011  
dep026 : 5/15/2016 4:37 pm : link
we had the 32 ranked rushing attack and 25th ranked defense.
RE: I am an Eli fan...  
SethFromAstoria : 5/15/2016 4:48 pm : link
In comment 12958351 EricJ said:
Quote:
and even though I have documented his weaknesses (mobility, occasional bone head games), he is the best QB we have had in my lifetime.

Eli is not a QB that can put a team on his shoulders and pull them through a season, into the playoffs and win a Championship. He DOES need the other parts around him. There is nothing wrong with that because in the end every QB needs that too.

What Eli is.... is cool under pressure which helps him to be able to take advantage of those moments when he, his team and his coaches put him in position to be able to make that special play.

We saw that Eli simply cannot get it done when he has no defense and a piss poor O-line. That is not a knock because no QB in history was going to win with our team the past couple of years.


As you said its no knock. I'll take it further and highly disagree witn your first point. Mainly, no QB can "Singlehandedly" do anything, howeverm opposite to your point, I think Eli is one of the only QB's who can come close due to his ice cold, lack of fear and welcoming of 4th quarter pressure. In fact last year, he almost won numerous games nearly on his own and the D let him down each time. Think there must have been at least 3 times. And he had one offensive weapon. And everyone knew he was passing.
Worst run game in the NFL, most pressures allowed, and a 27th ranked  
Devon : 5/15/2016 4:51 pm : link
defense. The only SB winner to ever give up more points than they scored (and they were top ten in scoring).

The only thing the 2011 team was indisputably good at was throwing the ball out of three WR sets (best in the NFL at it) and even that was somewhat mitigated by a coaching staff that didn't want to play that way -- which is partly why Eli set the all time record for fourth quarter comebacks that season.

The defense definitely went on a supremely well timed, even if bizarre hot streak at the end, but Manning still set records for passing that postseason to follow. And, yes, they had a damn fine WR trio then, which certainly played a large role in what Eli was able to do that season, but what you're throwing out there as something Eli couldn't do, is almost exactly what he largely did then -- even if it's not something repeatable for him or almost any QB.
Eli has a chance to win another superbowl in these next five seasons.  
jsuds : 5/15/2016 5:47 pm : link
He can probably win two more and with this offseason the Giants look to be on track to give Eli his opportunity.

I think this season he has a chance for 5000/50. That should get him at minimum an MVP.

And it will shut up most, not all, of the haters.
One of the best in the league  
Giant John : 5/15/2016 5:51 pm : link
Already HOF material.
Eli  
Dragon : 5/15/2016 7:46 pm : link
Is who he is nothing more can be said or written about that from the start of his career. Some love him, like him, hate him, question his talent and many just don't buy the hype Giants fans and the whole world fall somewhere in those groups. How many more years or Super Bowls he has will help his numbers but he is playing in a era where some of the greatest QB's of all time are also playing.

Will he win another super bowl maybe but I don't think he needs to be the ring leader this team is being built to help him carry the load. I've heard our offense being talked about as frightening before just want to see much more consistency. If he can just lead this offense to an every game of 27-30 points weekly being in the metropolis of the world will help his legacy or whatever you want to call it. He may not shine like the Big Apple but he has not done anything to tarnish the game or himself to this point.
If Eli has a terrible interception-filled season,  
CT Charlie : 5/15/2016 7:59 pm : link
and his career ends a year from now, most current NFL fans will write him off as a streaky player who got lucky a couple of times. Still, ten years from now he'd be widely regarded as one of the top QB's of his time, and in twenty years people will still be looking at clips of his SuperBowl heroics and they'll know more about his games than Peyton's.
Eli's legacy will only grow....I suspect we will be full throttle  
George from PA : 5/15/2016 8:19 pm : link
Last year, we settled to take the air out of the ball after taking leads.....to run out the clock.....which cost us.

McAdoo Green Bay background......gives me the feeling Eli will break his season marks.....
My take  
RetroJint : 5/15/2016 8:36 pm : link
The Giants aren't close to contending for another Super Bowl. They have a chance maybe 2 years out. That still works in Eli's timeline in that I think he has 3 years remaining, provided he doesn't sustain a serious injury. His legacy is solidified regardless of what happens in those 3 seasons. He will make the Hall of Fame. I am a huge fan. And always will be.
Now onto some of the commentary. When considering HOF credentials, I like the concept first presented by Bill James for Cooperstown. There are three tiers of status, with the A tier being the most accomplished, the elite. B is for the medium-tier choices, just as deserving as the As, but not quite as dominate. Lastly there is the C tier. These guys get in on the basis of accumulated stats built over long, healthy careers. They were never considered to be among the two or three best at their positions for any part of their career. Their election is the most contentious, given that their selections tend to have "coat tails," meaning they open the door for players of similar abilities, some of whom might truly not be deserved of induction.

To me, Eli is a C Tier HOFer. He has what Sir Lawrence Olivier described as the "Footlight Sense.". This means the ability to rise to greatness in the most dramatic of moments. That's Eli. But his greatness is situational, not constant. Frankly, he screws up quite a bit. In a manner that a guy like Aaron Rodgers rarely does.

Time to dispel two shibboleths. 1. Coughlin and Gilbride retarded Eli's growth. Coughlin and Gilbride were enormous offensive coaching talents who enabled Eli's career rather than impeded it. It would be a cheap ploy to tell you to ask Eli what he thinks about them. You know what his response would be. Just keeping him off the ground when they were employing him in the Coryell Vertical system was an achievement that cannot be overemphasized, especially given Eli's total lack of mobility.

2. In " this" offense under "this" coach, Manning's stats have been cleaned up just as have those of 20+ other quarterbacks in the league, in what has become the Gentleman's Club of 92% pass-rating efficiency. The dink-down offense has supplanted the running game in today's NFL. You see it all the time: Third and 11, check-down, catch and run, play gains 7 yards. In other words, unsuccessful play, but the QB's stat line is enhanced.

Look at the passing rating of current members of HOF QBs and compare them with today. I give the Jets credit for recognizing that Fitzpatrick is basically an average talent who accumulated harvest-type numbers because of the system he was in. His skill-set is middling. The Jets, who are making loads of smart decisions, wouldn't be intimidated into giving him a rich deal.

It is also erroneous to state that the NFL is in an era of offensive explosion. It is not. Short passing touchdowns have merely replaced rushing touchdowns. It is true that points per game per team reached an all-time high of just under 24, which is 3 points higher than the historic total over what can be called the modern or non fat-football era of league history. But most of that is attributed to the insane long-distance accuracy of today's field goal kickers. When an opponent reaches your 35, you can expect that you've already surrendered 3 points.

Bullet points:

1. Eli is going to the Hall of Fame. 2. He will most likely not win another Super Bowl. 3. During his acceptance speech, he will lavish rich praise on Gilbride and Coughlin, who were two of the seminal offensive minds of their generation. 4. His winning percentage suffered because the roster around him was hollowed out. 5. 07 & 11 were two of the most beautiful gifts ever given to me. I am forever thankful to this great Giant.
RE: My take  
dep026 : 5/15/2016 9:10 pm : link
In comment 12958595 RetroJint said:
Quote:
The Giants aren't close to contending for another Super Bowl. They have a chance maybe 2 years out. That still works in Eli's timeline in that I think he has 3 years remaining, provided he doesn't sustain a serious injury. His legacy is solidified regardless of what happens in those 3 seasons. He will make the Hall of Fame. I am a huge fan. And always will be.
Now onto some of the commentary. When considering HOF credentials, I like the concept first presented by Bill James for Cooperstown. There are three tiers of status, with the A tier being the most accomplished, the elite. B is for the medium-tier choices, just as deserving as the As, but not quite as dominate. Lastly there is the C tier. These guys get in on the basis of accumulated stats built over long, healthy careers. They were never considered to be among the two or three best at their positions for any part of their career. Their election is the most contentious, given that their selections tend to have "coat tails," meaning they open the door for players of similar abilities, some of whom might truly not be deserved of induction.

To me, Eli is a C Tier HOFer. He has what Sir Lawrence Olivier described as the "Footlight Sense.". This means the ability to rise to greatness in the most dramatic of moments. That's Eli. But his greatness is situational, not constant. Frankly, he screws up quite a bit. In a manner that a guy like Aaron Rodgers rarely does.

Time to dispel two shibboleths. 1. Coughlin and Gilbride retarded Eli's growth. Coughlin and Gilbride were enormous offensive coaching talents who enabled Eli's career rather than impeded it. It would be a cheap ploy to tell you to ask Eli what he thinks about them. You know what his response would be. Just keeping him off the ground when they were employing him in the Coryell Vertical system was an achievement that cannot be overemphasized, especially given Eli's total lack of mobility.

2. In " this" offense under "this" coach, Manning's stats have been cleaned up just as have those of 20+ other quarterbacks in the league, in what has become the Gentleman's Club of 92% pass-rating efficiency. The dink-down offense has supplanted the running game in today's NFL. You see it all the time: Third and 11, check-down, catch and run, play gains 7 yards. In other words, unsuccessful play, but the QB's stat line is enhanced.

Look at the passing rating of current members of HOF QBs and compare them with today. I give the Jets credit for recognizing that Fitzpatrick is basically an average talent who accumulated harvest-type numbers because of the system he was in. His skill-set is middling. The Jets, who are making loads of smart decisions, wouldn't be intimidated into giving him a rich deal.

It is also erroneous to state that the NFL is in an era of offensive explosion. It is not. Short passing touchdowns have merely replaced rushing touchdowns. It is true that points per game per team reached an all-time high of just under 24, which is 3 points higher than the historic total over what can be called the modern or non fat-football era of league history. But most of that is attributed to the insane long-distance accuracy of today's field goal kickers. When an opponent reaches your 35, you can expect that you've already surrendered 3 points.

Bullet points:

1. Eli is going to the Hall of Fame. 2. He will most likely not win another Super Bowl. 3. During his acceptance speech, he will lavish rich praise on Gilbride and Coughlin, who were two of the seminal offensive minds of their generation. 4. His winning percentage suffered because the roster around him was hollowed out. 5. 07 & 11 were two of the most beautiful gifts ever given to me. I am forever thankful to this great Giant.


I dont think there is a single point anyone can dispute. Well done and agree 110%.
Do you have to have any recognized skill or knowledge to  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 5/15/2016 9:12 pm : link
write for the Bleacher Report? "Besides covering the NFL for Bleacher Report, I keep my own Lions blog, The Lions in Winter. " There is expertise.

It sometimes seems like two drunks arguing in a bar except that there is only one drunk mumbling.
So dep, let me get this straight  
Cruzin : 5/15/2016 9:39 pm : link
One posters states

"Frankly, he [Eli] screws up quite a bit, in a manner that Aaron Rodgers rarely does."

And you agree 110%.

Another poster says yesterday,

Eli's been as bad as he has been good and will never be in Aaron Rodgers' class.

And that's a ridiculous statement?

Depspicable Me! Looks like the Minion has begun to backpedal.
RE: In 2011  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/15/2016 11:47 pm : link
In comment 12958405 dep026 said:
Quote:
we had the 32 ranked rushing attack and 25th ranked defense.

+1
x1MM
Eli carried this team to the title in 2011  
Optimus-NY : 5/16/2016 12:45 am : link
Period.
RE: He's a great, non-stat QB who despite  
chris r : 5/16/2016 1:52 am : link
In comment 12958207 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
being possibly hamstrung by one of, if not, the most complex run O in the league for 10 years and STILL managed to win it all twice in two of the most clutch playoff runs in HISTORY...



So the Giants made a mistake in keeping a two time SB winning offense coordinator because it hamstrung them? Were you saying this at the time, calling for Gilbride's firing?
RE: So dep, let me get this straight  
dep026 : 5/16/2016 8:12 am : link
In comment 12958625 Cruzin said:
Quote:
One posters states

"Frankly, he [Eli] screws up quite a bit, in a manner that Aaron Rodgers rarely does."

And you agree 110%.

Another poster says yesterday,

Eli's been as bad as he has been good and will never be in Aaron Rodgers' class.

And that's a ridiculous statement?

Depspicable Me! Looks like the Minion has begun to backpedal.


Really? You are going to compare you moronic posting to that of what retro just spouted? All I did was take a piece of your foolishness "eli has been as bad as he has been good" and laughed at how fucking stupid it was for you to say that. If you think Eli has had as many bad games/plays as he had good ones - then you truly are mentally challenged. And by calling me a minion (a child-like reference from a child-like poster) just shows why you have been booted many times from this board.

Please tells us. Did you beg, cry, or pay Eric to let you back in? We all know how much of a bitch you are - so Iam going with a combo of all 3.
re: 2011  
Britt in VA : 5/16/2016 8:57 am : link
NFL All Time Record 14 4th Quarter TD Passes
7 Fourth Quarter Comebacks
And to give some context to those 7 4th quarter comebacks....  
Britt in VA : 5/16/2016 9:11 am : link
we only had 9 regular season wins.

Think about that for a minute when you're wondering if Eli could put a team on his back and carry them.
RE: Eli Manning  
Scyber : 5/16/2016 9:14 am : link
In comment 12958243 spike said:
Quote:
is also Iron Man.

Ok, not Tony Stark but still 2nd only to Favre


Technically his streak is currently #3 behind Favre and Peyton. 24 more starts and he will be in the #2 spot. #1 active streak though.
RE: RE: So dep, let me get this straight  
Cruzin : 5/16/2016 9:27 am : link
In comment 12958799 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 12958625 Cruzin said:


Quote:


One posters states

"Frankly, he [Eli] screws up quite a bit, in a manner that Aaron Rodgers rarely does."

And you agree 110%.

Another poster says yesterday,

Eli's been as bad as he has been good and will never be in Aaron Rodgers' class.

And that's a ridiculous statement?

Depspicable Me! Looks like the Minion has begun to backpedal.



Really? You are going to compare you moronic posting to that of what retro just spouted? All I did was take a piece of your foolishness "eli has been as bad as he has been good" and laughed at how fucking stupid it was for you to say that. If you think Eli has had as many bad games/plays as he had good ones - then you truly are mentally challenged. And by calling me a minion (a child-like reference from a child-like poster) just shows why you have been booted many times from this board.

Please tells us. Did you beg, cry, or pay Eric to let you back in? We all know how much of a bitch you are - so Iam going with a combo of all 3.


Your inconsistency is a telltale sign of your insecurity as a poster. You are coming around though, even though both posters said essentially the same thing, at least you recognized one version of Eli not being in Rodgers' class. With practice, someday you may comprehend more than half of what you read. I'm rooting for you.

Love,
slefrak
I don't agree with that at all.  
Curtis in VA : 5/16/2016 9:39 am : link
His legacy is already solidified. Anything else at this point is gravy.

In 10 years when people look back on his career, they will see a 2 time Super Bowl MVP. Thats all anyone will care about.
RE: RE: RE: So dep, let me get this straight  
dep026 : 5/16/2016 9:42 am : link
In comment 12958876 Cruzin said:
Quote:
In comment 12958799 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 12958625 Cruzin said:


Quote:


One posters states

"Frankly, he [Eli] screws up quite a bit, in a manner that Aaron Rodgers rarely does."

And you agree 110%.

Another poster says yesterday,

Eli's been as bad as he has been good and will never be in Aaron Rodgers' class.

And that's a ridiculous statement?

Depspicable Me! Looks like the Minion has begun to backpedal.



Really? You are going to compare you moronic posting to that of what retro just spouted? All I did was take a piece of your foolishness "eli has been as bad as he has been good" and laughed at how fucking stupid it was for you to say that. If you think Eli has had as many bad games/plays as he had good ones - then you truly are mentally challenged. And by calling me a minion (a child-like reference from a child-like poster) just shows why you have been booted many times from this board.

Please tells us. Did you beg, cry, or pay Eric to let you back in? We all know how much of a bitch you are - so Iam going with a combo of all 3.



Your inconsistency is a telltale sign of your insecurity as a poster. You are coming around though, even though both posters said essentially the same thing, at least you recognized one version of Eli not being in Rodgers' class. With practice, someday you may comprehend more than half of what you read. I'm rooting for you.

Love,
slefrak


Never once have I claimed Eli to be as good or better than Rodgers. But you have said Eli has had as many bad games and plays as good ones. So go fuck yourself on the doorknob of your parents basement door.

Again, what did it take for you to be able to come and post here again under your 5th? 6th? 7th handle? We arent judgemental. I am sure you did whatever it took. NTTAWT.
RE: I don't agree with that at all.  
dep026 : 5/16/2016 9:43 am : link
In comment 12958901 Curtis in VA said:
Quote:
His legacy is already solidified. Anything else at this point is gravy.

In 10 years when people look back on his career, they will see a 2 time Super Bowl MVP. Thats all anyone will care about.


False. He has had as many bad games as good ones...


- Rocky
.  
Cruzin : 5/16/2016 10:01 am : link

Come on big boy  
dep026 : 5/16/2016 10:17 am : link
you can tell us. What did it take for you to let Eric grant you another reprieve.
I think Eli's legacy is solidified.  
Glover : 5/16/2016 10:33 am : link
He will end his career with more passing yards than Warren Moon, likely more than Elway, with 2 SB MVPs, and his legacy is not solidified? Of course he has to stay healthy for 2 more seasons to do that, but he will, even if what has not happened in 15 years happens (Eli unable to play), he will throw for 8k yards over the next 4 seasons. If he passes Elway on the all time passing list, he is first ballot. If he retired today he may not be 1st ballot, but he would get in. One more SB is a double lock.
This ....  
Bluesbreaker : 5/16/2016 11:19 am : link
Another reason why the Giants
prdave73 : 5/15/2016 3:22 pm : link : reply
Need to fortify the right side of the Oline..

Curtis well Put !!!

We can Win the Big One this Year ...
To sit there and say Eli will never win another
isn't exactly going out on a Limb . Sure plenty
of things have to go our way and I think we are
over due for a Season of Health ..
A Draft that intentionally has 4 Starers by
year end . Eli is no spring Chicken but
his Smarts his Lifestyle and his Skills
will take him to another Lomabardi .
The Only Pick I still can't put my head around
is Eli Apple I have watched every Moment of
football tape i could find . He looks to be a Poor
Tackler , he is not a Ball Hawk and he could be
a Penalty Machine If It's not Holding its
Ilegal Contact He seems to rely on mimicking
the WR and Guessing when and where the Ball is .
RE: I don't agree with that at all.  
BillKo : 5/16/2016 12:34 pm : link
In comment 12958901 Curtis in VA said:
Quote:
His legacy is already solidified. Anything else at this point is gravy.

In 10 years when people look back on his career, they will see a 2 time Super Bowl MVP. Thats all anyone will care about.


Exactly.

The one thing about sports is, things get remembered a bit differently (usually positive) than how they are interpreted during current times.

Case in point: Phil Simms. Man, he always took a beating. Now, everyone loves the guy. Fact is, he was always a really good QB.

RE: My take  
HomerJones45 : 5/16/2016 12:43 pm : link
In comment 12958595 RetroJint said:
Quote:
The Giants aren't close to contending for another Super Bowl. They have a chance maybe 2 years out. That still works in Eli's timeline in that I think he has 3 years remaining, provided he doesn't sustain a serious injury. His legacy is solidified regardless of what happens in those 3 seasons. He will make the Hall of Fame. I am a huge fan. And always will be.
Now onto some of the commentary. When considering HOF credentials, I like the concept first presented by Bill James for Cooperstown. There are three tiers of status, with the A tier being the most accomplished, the elite. B is for the medium-tier choices, just as deserving as the As, but not quite as dominate. Lastly there is the C tier. These guys get in on the basis of accumulated stats built over long, healthy careers. They were never considered to be among the two or three best at their positions for any part of their career. Their election is the most contentious, given that their selections tend to have "coat tails," meaning they open the door for players of similar abilities, some of whom might truly not be deserved of induction.

To me, Eli is a C Tier HOFer. He has what Sir Lawrence Olivier described as the "Footlight Sense.". This means the ability to rise to greatness in the most dramatic of moments. That's Eli. But his greatness is situational, not constant. Frankly, he screws up quite a bit. In a manner that a guy like Aaron Rodgers rarely does.

Time to dispel two shibboleths. 1. Coughlin and Gilbride retarded Eli's growth. Coughlin and Gilbride were enormous offensive coaching talents who enabled Eli's career rather than impeded it. It would be a cheap ploy to tell you to ask Eli what he thinks about them. You know what his response would be. Just keeping him off the ground when they were employing him in the Coryell Vertical system was an achievement that cannot be overemphasized, especially given Eli's total lack of mobility.

2. In " this" offense under "this" coach, Manning's stats have been cleaned up just as have those of 20+ other quarterbacks in the league, in what has become the Gentleman's Club of 92% pass-rating efficiency. The dink-down offense has supplanted the running game in today's NFL. You see it all the time: Third and 11, check-down, catch and run, play gains 7 yards. In other words, unsuccessful play, but the QB's stat line is enhanced.

Look at the passing rating of current members of HOF QBs and compare them with today. I give the Jets credit for recognizing that Fitzpatrick is basically an average talent who accumulated harvest-type numbers because of the system he was in. His skill-set is middling. The Jets, who are making loads of smart decisions, wouldn't be intimidated into giving him a rich deal.

It is also erroneous to state that the NFL is in an era of offensive explosion. It is not. Short passing touchdowns have merely replaced rushing touchdowns. It is true that points per game per team reached an all-time high of just under 24, which is 3 points higher than the historic total over what can be called the modern or non fat-football era of league history. But most of that is attributed to the insane long-distance accuracy of today's field goal kickers. When an opponent reaches your 35, you can expect that you've already surrendered 3 points.

Bullet points:

1. Eli is going to the Hall of Fame. 2. He will most likely not win another Super Bowl. 3. During his acceptance speech, he will lavish rich praise on Gilbride and Coughlin, who were two of the seminal offensive minds of their generation. 4. His winning percentage suffered because the roster around him was hollowed out. 5. 07 & 11 were two of the most beautiful gifts ever given to me. I am forever thankful to this great Giant.
Great post. Couldn't agree more.
Back to the Corner