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WaPo poll-90% of American Indians not offended by "Redskins"

Greg from LI : 5/19/2016 10:31 am
Quote:
Among the Native Americans reached over a five-month period ending in April, more than 7 in 10 said they did not feel the word “Redskin” was disrespectful to Indians. An even higher number — 8 in 10 — said they would not be offended if a non-native called them that name......

Across every demographic group, the vast majority of Native Americans say the team’s name does not offend them, including 80 percent who identify as politically liberal, 85 percent of college graduates, 90 percent of those enrolled in a tribe, 90 percent of non-football fans and 91 percent of those between the ages of 18 and 39.

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RE: the name has been around forever  
T-Bone : 5/19/2016 2:55 pm : link
In comment 12964026 Zebrka said:
Quote:
why change it now? I'm 76 years old and you woulda been laughed at for mentioning this in my day


LOL! Well you're getting laughed at today.
Yeah!!  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/19/2016 2:56 pm : link
Those dame colleges!!

Wait - a talking college? Now that's the shit.
I'm guessing being laughed at isn't a novel thing for him  
Greg from LI : 5/19/2016 2:56 pm : link
.
RE: the name has been around forever  
Sonic Youth : 5/19/2016 2:57 pm : link
In comment 12964026 Zebrka said:
Quote:
why change it now? I'm 76 years old and you woulda been laughed at for mentioning this in my day
black people also had to use separate water fountains back in your day also, I don't think it's really a good barometer for how modern society should function...

Greg my bad lol I was typing that post on the subway and rushing.

The word bindi is both the word for the dot and okra.

Honestly though, I'm not as in tune or familiar with my indian heritage as I should be, I'm probably a pretty awful resource
RE: RE: RE: I'm just going to pass along what my Navajo friend has told me  
Mark C : 5/19/2016 2:57 pm : link
In comment 12963939 JimboWHO said:
Quote:
In comment 12963902 Mark C said:


Quote:


In comment 12963712 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


Most Indians don't give a shit one way or the other - don't love the name, don't hate it either, don't really care. Many of them roll their eyes at the idea of white people getting bent out of shape about the names of sports teams while ignoring the many very serious problems present in a lot of their communities. There is a small, noisy activist contingent that does care. Few Indians pay them much mind, either.

Again, that's just what I've been told anecdotally by a friend who is full Navajo and lives in New Mexico in a region that is largely Indian.




The way I interpret what your Navajo friend is saying is that most Indians attitude is, essentially: "This is your problem, White people, not ours. You deal with it. And how you choose to deal with it is on you, not on us." In comparison to all of the other fucked up things we've done to Indian people and culture , this one seems trivial to many of them.

But using that piece of information as justification for perpetuating the common usage of a racial slur is also fucked up. In fact, it's an indication of just how deep our fuckeduppedness goes.

And you know what else is fucked up? The very prevalent notion in our society today that morality and ethics should be shaped by polling data.



I 'm curious as to why you feel you have to "interpret" in the worst way possible, what a Navajo has said?


I don't know what you mean by "in the worst way possible". But let me see if I can satisfy your curiosity... I wasn't interpreting what a Navajo said. I was interpreting what his friend said he said about what he thinks most Indians he knows think about the subject. In order for that statement to have any meaning or relevance, I'd say that a fair amount of interpretation is warranted. And the bulk of my interpretation is based on the poster's own words: "Many of them roll their eyes at the idea of white people getting bent out of shape about the names of sports teams while ignoring the many very serious problems present in a lot of their communities."

You see? I hear that as: How you (White people) choose to define us, doesn't define us, it defines you. And besides, we have other things to worry about.
so many tutiton dollars spent and so little learned  
Zebrka : 5/19/2016 2:58 pm : link
Let me guess, you all took a social problems class in '89 and learned oh so much and now you're proud you sent your little girl and boy to be brainwashed by the school systems because a bunch of rowdy hipy liberal teaches say so!!
RE: Yes you must brush up on all your Indian culture or  
Sonic Youth : 5/19/2016 2:59 pm : link
In comment 12964037 Zebrka said:
Quote:
you're a racist, so the colleges say these days

Lol where the fuck did you get that idea? Idk, maybe greg would just like to learn a ltitle about the cultures of some of his kids parents?

My grand daughter graduated school  
Zebrka : 5/19/2016 3:01 pm : link
and I asked her what she said and she said absolutely nothing!!! it was all racial issues, feminism and holocaust. Didn't they learn all of this in high school? Why not learn about something important like rocket science or mathmathetics?

in a class in 2013 im like what did you learn today and she said "we discussed the n word" and im like what the fuck? im aying for this fucking bullshit
how does shadow and zebrka manage to post so often simultaneously  
GMenLTS : 5/19/2016 3:01 pm : link
while being the same person?

Today's mystery.
Being 76..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/19/2016 3:02 pm : link
were all colleges the same in your day?

I mean, I went to school for Electrical engineering, while my wife went to school for Business Management. Back in your day, the girls had to go to women's colleges, people wore suits to go to class, and the blacks were the janitors.

I don't even know where the Indians were. Probably smoking a peace pipe.

76 years old and still a moron. Your colleges sucked.
LOL!!!  
Route 9 : 5/19/2016 3:02 pm : link
Zebrka. Go get em, baby!!! Your words cut like a knife!
RE: so many tutiton dollars spent and so little learned  
Sonic Youth : 5/19/2016 3:02 pm : link
In comment 12964049 Zebrka said:
Quote:
Let me guess, you all took a social problems class in '89 and learned oh so much and now you're proud you sent your little girl and boy to be brainwashed by the school systems because a bunch of rowdy hipy liberal teaches say so!!
no, I was born in 1989 lol.

When the fuck did education become a negative? It's funny, because considering the fact you ostensibly didn't go to college, and couplEd with how stupid your posts are, you're unknowingly a fantastic example of WHY someone should go to college so do they don't the way you do at 76
Oh so you're already brainwashed and you have no chance  
Zebrka : 5/19/2016 3:06 pm : link
Now those feminists who were 20 in 69 are now 40 teaching you about how worthless you are because you are a man. For 40 fucking years I worked at the bowling alley and I learned more from pepole than the bullshit you college kids learn about today, a bunch of white guilt drivel!!!!

the babies of today at 23 graduate school with nothing important learned, did you know womens studies is a major? what the fuck can they do with that....keep sending your kids to college thats what they want you to think youre learning something and you're considered "smart!!"

aha  
Greg from LI : 5/19/2016 3:06 pm : link
So you're not an Indian version of a Plastic Paddy, huh? heh
20 in 69 and now they're 40, huh  
Greg from LI : 5/19/2016 3:07 pm : link
Who taught you math?
I'm just saying when you were born  
Zebrka : 5/19/2016 3:08 pm : link
!!!!
This has got to be an attempt at parody, right?  
Bill L : 5/19/2016 3:08 pm : link
.
Rocket Science 101  
Big Al : 5/19/2016 3:09 pm : link
was a required freshman course in my day just about the time the "hipers" started to pollute our society.
I was..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/19/2016 3:09 pm : link
thinking you might be a trendsetter, but you are just a lowly, fucking pinsetter....
I'm saying education is important  
Zebrka : 5/19/2016 3:10 pm : link
because I was forced to leave school when I was 15 years old to help support my family and I never got an education, so thats why i valued it. When I heard my children and granddaughters were going to college, i was happy for them, except when I heard about the useless college courses they took with a feminist/racial issue background
I tell you...  
T-Bone : 5/19/2016 3:10 pm : link
it's always been hilarious to me when a thread has a clear divide on a subject and the two sides discuss (or argue if you want) the topic versus one another... until some guy comes in and displays a level of ignorance that neither side is feeling and EVERYONE turns on him.

Too funny!
RE: My grand daughter graduated school  
Sonic Youth : 5/19/2016 3:10 pm : link
In comment 12964055 Zebrka said:
Quote:
and I asked her what she said and she said absolutely nothing!!! it was all racial issues, feminism and holocaust. Didn't they learn all of this in high school? Why not learn about something important like rocket science or mathmathetics?

in a class in 2013 im like what did you learn today and she said "we discussed the n word" and im like what the fuck? im aying for this fucking bullshit
uh, you realize it's your daughter that picked her own classes, right?

That post crossed the stupidity level into possible troll territory. Not sure of he's a real poster
Boneman, we should all treasure these kinds of unifying moments  
Greg from LI : 5/19/2016 3:11 pm : link
.
I'm actually jealous of Zebrka  
Route 9 : 5/19/2016 3:12 pm : link
Forget school, I wanna work in a bowling alley for 40 years
RE: Boneman, we should all treasure these kinds of unifying moments  
T-Bone : 5/19/2016 3:12 pm : link
In comment 12964082 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.


It's a beautiful thing man... a beautiful thing....
I do think that there's a point ot be made  
Bill L : 5/19/2016 3:12 pm : link
about having narrower and more focused curricula and a greater emphasis on courses that help you succeed career-wise.
Greg..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/19/2016 3:12 pm : link
how the fuck do you think I feel? I was born in 1969 and the fucking feminists are now half my age!!
RE: I'm saying education is important  
David in LA : 5/19/2016 3:12 pm : link
In comment 12964078 Zebrka said:
Quote:
because I was forced to leave school when I was 15 years old to help support my family and I never got an education, so thats why i valued it. When I heard my children and granddaughters were going to college, i was happy for them, except when I heard about the useless college courses they took with a feminist/racial issue background


Please, no one buys that a slug like yourself actually procreates. You're some lowlife living in mom's basement. The only children you've had were the ones you jerked off into a tissue with.
No at her school you are required a certain type of credit course  
Zebrka : 5/19/2016 3:13 pm : link
Chinese Culture, Black culture, Asian Culture, women something...EVERYONE has to take at least two or three of these courses!!!
Depends on Whether the Sample is Representative  
OntheRoad : 5/19/2016 3:14 pm : link
RE: 504 people sampled. So, this means pretty much dog squat

In comment 12963423 kicker said:
Quote:
That's LESS than one-hundredth of one percent.

Unless you think that this sample size is meaningful, you may want to rethink your conclusion...


If the sample is random, 500 is plenty big enough to draw a rough conclusion.
RE: aha  
Sonic Youth : 5/19/2016 3:15 pm : link
In comment 12964067 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
So you're not an Indian version of a Plastic Paddy, huh? heh
Not gonna lie, I had to the Google that lol. But yeah, I'm not really sure, I don't really try t fake it to family members or other indian people, as I pretty much own the fact that while I know a little about my heritage, I'm jersey to the core as far as subcultures go (for better or for worse lol)
David  
Zebrka : 5/19/2016 3:15 pm : link
No, lol. That's my 29 year old grandson and believe me, there are desperate women out there to fuck his 230 pound ass. (They're called single moms)
I feel like there's...  
Chris in Philly : 5/19/2016 3:19 pm : link
like 10 handles on this thread that are shared by 2-3 people.
RE: Depends on Whether the Sample is Representative  
kicker : 5/19/2016 3:20 pm : link
In comment 12964092 OntheRoad said:
Quote:
RE: 504 people sampled. So, this means pretty much dog squat

In comment 12963423 kicker said:


Quote:


That's LESS than one-hundredth of one percent.

Unless you think that this sample size is meaningful, you may want to rethink your conclusion...



If the sample is random, 500 is plenty big enough to draw a rough conclusion.


No; no it's not. Highly unlikely that the sample distribution is the same as the population distribution, namely because they relied on whomever answered the phone. That, by itself, skews randomization, and makes the probability that the distributions converge near 0.

Randomization is necessary, but not sufficient for, a causal interpretation.
RE: David  
therealmf : 5/19/2016 3:22 pm : link
In comment 12964096 Zebrka said:
Quote:
No, lol. That's my 29 year old grandson and believe me, there are desperate women out there to fuck his 230 pound ass. (They're called single moms)


I think if they want to fuck his ass they're called homosexuals. NTTIAWWT
kicker youd be the first to  
Zebrka : 5/19/2016 3:23 pm : link
pull up these same "skewed numbers" or whatever you are saying to point out something that you agree with. I bet it.
RE: I feel like there's...  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 5/19/2016 3:24 pm : link
In comment 12964103 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
like 10 handles on this thread that are shared by 2-3 people.


I got that feeling too.
kicker has..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/19/2016 3:26 pm : link
been pretty consistent about stats. Not sure though, because he is a college grad who might have been taught be a bunch of fucking feminists bad at math.

Man. I feel almost 76 now....
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Sonic Youth  
NYDCBlue : 5/19/2016 3:28 pm : link
In comment 12963907 BMac said:
Quote:
In comment 12963896 Sonic Youth said:
[quote]

Sonic, ignore the braying jackass. All he wants is the attention he isn't getting anywhere else.


I second this statement.
Is anyone else reading Leon's posts  
RB^2 : 5/19/2016 3:29 pm : link
in a Russian accent?
RE: RE: Im in love with the notion of a Russian  
Deej : 5/19/2016 3:33 pm : link
In comment 12963669 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 12963661 Deej said:


Quote:


Renaissance fair. Mostly because I picture the whole country either dressed to the 9s or in a black t-shirt and jeans.



From my admittedly limited experiences with Russian nationals, I picture crew-cut men wearing track suits drinking from morning until whenever they pass out.


That too. It bridges the gap.

So do the Russians do war re-enactments? Are there Russian furries?
RE: Is anyone else reading Leon's posts  
MadPlaid : 5/19/2016 3:38 pm : link
In comment 12964130 RB^2 said:
Quote:
in a Russian accent?

I was. A little. Greg did it for me with his mentioning borscht.
So, I met this girl and she looked like a Native American...  
Klaatu : 5/19/2016 3:39 pm : link
So I said, "Navajo?"
And she said, "No. New Jersey Ho."
RE: Is anyone else reading Leon's posts  
BMac : 5/19/2016 3:47 pm : link
In comment 12964130 RB^2 said:
Quote:
in a Russian accent?


If indeed he's from Kiev, then he's Ukrainian.
RE: I feel like there's...  
Vin R : 5/19/2016 3:48 pm : link
In comment 12964103 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
like 10 handles on this thread that are shared by 2-3 people.



Whaaaaat?!


not necessarily  
Greg from LI : 5/19/2016 3:48 pm : link
13% of Kiev's population is Russian
RE: RE: Depends on Whether the Sample is Representative  
Carson53 : 5/19/2016 3:48 pm : link
In comment 12964107 kicker said:
Quote:
In comment 12964092 OntheRoad said:


Quote:


RE: 504 people sampled. So, this means pretty much dog squat

In comment 12963423 kicker said:





Quote:


That's LESS than one-hundredth of one percent.

Unless you think that this sample size is meaningful, you may want to rethink your conclusion...



If the sample is random, 500 is plenty big enough to draw a rough conclusion.



No; no it's not. Highly unlikely that the sample distribution is the same as the population distribution, namely because they relied on whomever answered the phone. That, by itself, skews randomization, and makes the probability that the distributions converge near 0.

Randomization is necessary, but not sufficient for, a causal interpretation.



It was also done by telephone (at the bottom of the link provided), maybe Congress was also doing some
fundraising too. Yep, they have to do that these days,
but I am using a sarcasm font, as in joke.
RE: not necessarily  
BMac : 5/19/2016 3:51 pm : link
In comment 12964159 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
13% of Kiev's population is Russian


They live in Ukraine, therefore I regard them as Ukrainian (but I get your point). What I'd like to know is how Leon pronounces Kiev.
typical. 90% of Native Americans not offended, but 90% of  
Victor in CT : 5/19/2016 4:14 pm : link
white Liberals are. So of course, let's force everyone else to comply with the the white liberals.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I'm just going to pass along what my Navajo friend has told me  
JimboWHO : 5/19/2016 4:14 pm : link
In comment 12964047 Mark C said:
Quote:
In comment 12963939 JimboWHO said:


Quote:


In comment 12963902 Mark C said:


Quote:


In comment 12963712 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


Most Indians don't give a shit one way or the other - don't love the name, don't hate it either, don't really care. Many of them roll their eyes at the idea of white people getting bent out of shape about the names of sports teams while ignoring the many very serious problems present in a lot of their communities. There is a small, noisy activist contingent that does care. Few Indians pay them much mind, either.

Again, that's just what I've been told anecdotally by a friend who is full Navajo and lives in New Mexico in a region that is largely Indian.




The way I interpret what your Navajo friend is saying is that most Indians attitude is, essentially: "This is your problem, White people, not ours. You deal with it. And how you choose to deal with it is on you, not on us." In comparison to all of the other fucked up things we've done to Indian people and culture , this one seems trivial to many of them.

But using that piece of information as justification for perpetuating the common usage of a racial slur is also fucked up. In fact, it's an indication of just how deep our fuckeduppedness goes.

And you know what else is fucked up? The very prevalent notion in our society today that morality and ethics should be shaped by polling data.



I 'm curious as to why you feel you have to "interpret" in the worst way possible, what a Navajo has said?



I don't know what you mean by "in the worst way possible". But let me see if I can satisfy your curiosity... I wasn't interpreting what a Navajo said. I was interpreting what his friend said he said about what he thinks most Indians he knows think about the subject. In order for that statement to have any meaning or relevance, I'd say that a fair amount of interpretation is warranted. And the bulk of my interpretation is based on the poster's own words: "Many of them roll their eyes at the idea of white people getting bent out of shape about the names of sports teams while ignoring the many very serious problems present in a lot of their communities."

You see? I hear that as: How you (White people) choose to define us, doesn't define us, it defines you. And besides, we have other things to worry about.


I don't want to split hairs and I don't think I am here. I want you to realize why I asked the question. What you originally said was:

"The way I interpret what your Navajo friend is saying is that most Indians attitude is, essentially: "This is your problem, White people, not ours. You deal with it. And how you choose to deal with it is on you, not on us." In comparison to all of the other fucked up things we've done to Indian people and culture , this one seems trivial to many of them."

Although now you are saying you were interpreting the poster's version of what the Navajo said that's not what you originally wrote.

I asked about you interpreted in "the worst way possible" because your interpretation leads you to conclude that the Navajo indicated that "it's your problem" and 'given how you've screwed us in the past we'll be watching how you handle this.' I don't see anything of the sort.

You say there's a need for interpretation. I say the Navajo's words are crystal clear; both he and his friends just don't care. Yeah he also says they have bigger problems but there's no indication from the poster that the Navajo blames those problems on white people.
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