NFT: A different kind of stolen valor story

but do people judge these guys that differently for say, two Bronze Stars instead of one that would make someone with his background even bother to fake a second?

I could see faking medals if you don't have any, but once you've earned some I can't see the advantage to claiming there were more.

Medals are a disservice to other veterans who also risked their life. They are a hold over from more ignorant times.

Have someone that you'd like to block out permanently? Just try HideAPoster...
http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=521248&thread_page=3 - ( New Window )

In comment 12965202 jcn56 said:

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but do people judge these guys that differently for say, two Bronze Stars instead of one that would make someone with his background even bother to fake a second? I could see faking medals if you don't have any, but once you've earned some I can't see the advantage to claiming there were more.

Sort of. Having one is like whoa! While having 2 or 3 is more like WHOA!

I agree, it seems incomprehensible, but there are such cases. Like I said, Plumley was an honest to God hero. His actions at Ia Drang are unquestioned. If he really did embellish, I have no idea why. I really hope it isn't true.

If you read the linked article, Galloway (author of We Were Soldiers Once and Young and survivor of Ia Drang) pretty much shits on the guy making the accusation. He says that Lt.Col. Moore vouched for Plumley, and that was good enough for him. Moore unfortunately has dementia now and can't clarify anything.

Joe Galloway while attending a lecture at the War College in Carlisle, Pa. I specifically asked him about Plumley and he told me that neither the book nor the movie did him justice. Said he was the bravest man he ever met. This is good enough for me.

On another note my father a WWII vet and D Day survivor has said many times that either every combat vet should receive a medal or none at all. They all risked their lives for one another and their country at one time or other. I never argued the point.

The Court simply did not want to create another exception to the First Amendment.

He's a legitimate hero either way. I'm sure the Army is going to tread very carefully in this case for that reason.

I don't know if any of you remember the story of Admiral Mike Boorda. He was the Chief of Naval Operations in the mid-90s who committed suicide when David Hackworth questioned the V (for valor) devices on his Bronze Stars. In his case, he wasn't even embellishing. He wore them in good faith as Admiral Elmo Zumwalt had verbally (but incorrectly) authorized them to Boorda during Vietnam. Sad story all around.

is a chance that he was given these awards but they where never filed with HRC since back in those days this stuff was not automated. From what I read of the guy he didn't seem like a guy that went over his records to make sure everything was up to date.

We'll see. If it turns out Plumley was in a glider on D-Day as opposed to jumping I'd call this much ado about nothing. It might have been more dangerous.

What I'm wondering about is what inspired Siddell to start digging into a guy who retired in 1974 and died 4 years ago. Not a politician or advocate, not accused of atrocities, appeared to have lived a quiet life after retirement.

.

(no offense to you Greg). At a time where paperwork was often lost (and has since been lost due to fires and such) we're really quibbling over whether Plumley had one SS or two, two BSMs or three? The proponent of this, whatever axe he has to grind, claims a guy who is a veteran of three wars is "anything but" a hero. Plumley is the epitome of a hero, and if he said he had two Silver Stars and not one I'll take his word for it.

and my records are not 100% complete and they're considering changing Plumley's headstone over his records which are probably 100 times larger than mine? Total bullshit!

The only medal/award that mattered to him was the Combat Infantry Badge - CBI

But I don't see a reason for the Army to not check it out.

I read the article Wednesday on Military.com. My in initial thought was skeptical of the accuser, but as I read on I saw enough discrepancies to believe the SGM was in the wrong. Then I read that some of the missing proof was from WWII and Korea. To me, that gave the SGM the benefit of the doubt. Many Army service records were lost to a fire in St Louis where hundreds (thousands) of Army personnel records were stored. All in paper, yet to be loaded into micro-fiche or digital formats.

I know this first hand from my attempts to research and acquire my Grandfather's Army records from WWII (MSG Army in Europe). I contacted the Army records department and received a formal reply saying most of the records were lost and the Army could only verify limited portions of my grandfathers service, namely campaign participation, but none of his individual records of promotions, qualifications, citations, and awards, etc.

In the SGM's case, the Army does not have the records to substantiate or refute the official summation of service - the DD214. If the DD214 says he earned an award or badge, then that is the official record, until sufficient evidence is presented to overturn that official record. The DD214s are also subject to incomplete and missing data, so the absence of an award or skill badge is suspicious, but hardly incriminating.

I hope the SGM's family can locate and provide the missing files to substantiate the rest of the SGM's accomplishments.

Regardless, the man is undisputedly a hero. The rest of the items of valor either enhances or diminishes that legacy.

IMO, the accuser is off target, even if the SGM did overstate and wear subsequent CIBs or Silver Stars. The accusations alone diminish the memory of a true hero (who may be flawed and human) after he is dead and buried. Bad taste.

I understand how records can be incorrect, because mine actually are. I only noticed recently, when digging out my 214 for some financial paperwork, that my Iraq service actually isn't listed on it and thus neither is my Iraq campaign medal. I returned ahead of the rest of my squadron with the advance party due to the requirement that you be in CONUS 60 days prior to your EAS, and they were still in Iraq when I checked out at admin. I'm guessing that's why.

Doesn't really matter because I'm never putting on a uniform again, but it does make me understand how a simple clerical error can cause these problems.

They are a concern in all forces today since you can earn one for everything but shit house time in todays military. Under no cicumstances should a service member wear an award not presented and noted in his records. All awards are received with orders so any discrepencies should be easily resolved. The idea that many service members are not following this article brings great disrespect to past and present service members. There was a time when if a service member had two or more rows of medals it meant something now most service members have three or four rows but much of them are for time served in war or peace areas or schools even without distinction.

In truth they could easily replace or combine many service medals and simplify the entire process but they would have to keep one or two from each branch of service to represent the past. Much like todays uniforms are still different and changing all the time do they really need so many for each branch of service? It's one military in many ways today much more than in the past but they still act as if five branches are still needed yet divided.

Agree completely, and that is one of my points / concerns with the SGM story. If the solider does not carefully read (and understand) the entries on the DD214 as he/she is exiting the service, errors can and do occur.

There were far fewer awards during the SGMs service period, and most of the discrepancies seem to trace back to WWII and Korea.

Were errors of omission made and not caught on the DD214? Without the files lost to the fire, we may never know for certain.


1973 Fire, National Personnel Records Center - ( New Window )

that Army records showed him as separated during Basic, which was news to the newly promoted E-5! Stuff happens and in particular Army stuff happens.

But I agree, what would motivate the 'accuser' to even dig into this? Doesn't go the veracity of his claim at all of course, but the motivation and inspiration is hard to understand.

but I had been compassionately reassigned to WRAMC and so never received a physical copy of the award. When I realized later it had never made it into iPerms, I reached out to the unit for assistance (I needed promotion points). Everyone had PCSed. If they can do this in the digital age, they sure as hell could do it in the age of microfiche.

At the end of the day, you're putting the onus on the surviving family members of a guy who is universally understood to be a hero to document everything on his headstone. That's fucking ridiculous.

Spent 22 years in the Army. My retirement award never reached my records. It happens.

In comment 12965269 jtfuoco said:

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is a chance that he was given these awards but they where never filed with HRC since back in those days this stuff was not automated. From what I read of the guy he didn't seem like a guy that went over his records to make sure everything was up to date.

This...even today I've had Marines earn Army medals mistakenly thinking they can wear it. Then they leave the service and realize that the award cannot be placed on their DD214 because it has to first go through USCENTCOM (MARCENT) channel to be approved by the Corps first. By the time they find out, it's been several years and no recourse to get it through. And not all Marines are knowledgeable with such administrative matters for the most part.

In comment 12965881 RC02XX said:

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In comment 12965269 jtfuoco said: Quote: is a chance that he was given these awards but they where never filed with HRC since back in those days this stuff was not automated. From what I read of the guy he didn't seem like a guy that went over his records to make sure everything was up to date. This...even today I've had Marines earn Army medals mistakenly thinking they can wear it. Then they leave the service and realize that the award cannot be placed on their DD214 because it has to first go through USCENTCOM (MARCENT) channel to be approved by the Corps first. By the time they find out, it's been several years and no recourse to get it through. And not all Marines are knowledgeable with such administrative matters for the most part.

I have no knowledge of how this works but whomever is presenting the award, wouldn't he also have a responsibility to file any appropriate paperwork to accompany it?

In comment 12965413 Dragon said:

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They are a concern in all forces today since you can earn one for everything but shit house time in todays military. Under no cicumstances should a service member wear an award not presented and noted in his records. All awards are received with orders so any discrepencies should be easily resolved. The idea that many service members are not following this article brings great disrespect to past and present service members. There was a time when if a service member had two or more rows of medals it meant something now most service members have three or four rows but much of them are for time served in war or peace areas or schools even without distinction. In truth they could easily replace or combine many service medals and simplify the entire process but they would have to keep one or two from each branch of service to represent the past. Much like todays uniforms are still different and changing all the time do they really need so many for each branch of service? It's one military in many ways today much more than in the past but they still act as if five branches are still needed yet divided.

Tell that to a group of Marines and see what the response is.

In comment 12965886 steve in ky said:

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In comment 12965881 RC02XX said: Quote: In comment 12965269 jtfuoco said: Quote: is a chance that he was given these awards but they where never filed with HRC since back in those days this stuff was not automated. From what I read of the guy he didn't seem like a guy that went over his records to make sure everything was up to date. This...even today I've had Marines earn Army medals mistakenly thinking they can wear it. Then they leave the service and realize that the award cannot be placed on their DD214 because it has to first go through USCENTCOM (MARCENT) channel to be approved by the Corps first. By the time they find out, it's been several years and no recourse to get it through. And not all Marines are knowledgeable with such administrative matters for the most part. I have no knowledge of how this works but whomever is presenting the award, wouldn't he also have a responsibility to file any appropriate paperwork to accompany it?

You would think so, but certain level awards can be approved at a lower level (battalion or brigade for the Army). Since these awards do not have to go higher for approval, the Army admin staff often do not go out of their way to get the award approved through the inter-service channel for non-Army personnel. It's relatively simple for them to go through their Army channel for their own service members, but many aren't even sure the proper process for non-Army folks attached to their command.

It happens quite often.

present an award that wasn't already approved. Maybe I'm missing something but that seems like a common sense thing.

In comment 12965460 Dunedin81 said:

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but I had been compassionately reassigned to WRAMC and so never received a physical copy of the award. When I realized later it had never made it into iPerms, I reached out to the unit for assistance (I needed promotion points). Everyone had PCSed. If they can do this in the digital age, they sure as hell could do it in the age of microfiche. At the end of the day, you're putting the onus on the surviving family members of a guy who is universally understood to be a hero to document everything on his headstone. That's fucking ridiculous.

Just to add to this...Every year when that your up for promotion they encourage you to review your records and make sure they are accurate for your board file. Every year I've reviewed them I have found some pretty massive errors so I see how easily this could of happened, especially back then.

In comment 12965886 steve in ky said:

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In comment 12965881 RC02XX said: Quote: In comment 12965269 jtfuoco said: Quote: is a chance that he was given these awards but they where never filed with HRC since back in those days this stuff was not automated. From what I read of the guy he didn't seem like a guy that went over his records to make sure everything was up to date. This...even today I've had Marines earn Army medals mistakenly thinking they can wear it. Then they leave the service and realize that the award cannot be placed on their DD214 because it has to first go through USCENTCOM (MARCENT) channel to be approved by the Corps first. By the time they find out, it's been several years and no recourse to get it through. And not all Marines are knowledgeable with such administrative matters for the most part. I have no knowledge of how this works but whomever is presenting the award, wouldn't he also have a responsibility to file any appropriate paperwork to accompany it?

Its strictly up to the S-1 personnel to make sure it gets filed with HRC. For example, I write an award for one of my Soldiers, if its an award that I can't approve then it goes up the chain and each level command has to recommend for approval or downgrade. Once it has all the approval signatures it gets awarded. At that point it is up to the units S-1 personnel to ensure or gets sent/loaded to HRC. This is also why it is imperative Soldiers keep a copy of all awards/documents they are given and constantly check their records in case the S-1 shop doesn't do their job.

Hope you and your family are doing well. My boy is growing up fast - he's prepping for Ranger School later this summer and probable deployment afterwards. He told us if he gets his tab and CIB he'll be satisfied and can then look to the next phase of his career. I like the sound of that.

In comment 12965906 steve in ky said:

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present an award that wasn't already approved. Maybe I'm missing something but that seems like a common sense thing.

The award (Commendation Medals and below) is approved and presented at a lower level instead of at the service level. This means that it gets inputted into the system by the admin section; however, when it involves someone from another service, the Army admin section doesn't have access to the other service award system. They have to do extra work to get it through that channel. So they expect that the other service member (who received the Army award) will take it upon themselves to submit it through their own service channel. However, most don't know that they have to do this. They mistakenly believe that all administrative process has been taken care of since they were presented with the award. When they are made aware of it when they are about to leave the service that the award was never approved by their own service, it's been years and too late. It happens more often than we would like to think.

In comment 12965911 JOrthman said:

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In comment 12965460 Dunedin81 said: Quote: but I had been compassionately reassigned to WRAMC and so never received a physical copy of the award. When I realized later it had never made it into iPerms, I reached out to the unit for assistance (I needed promotion points). Everyone had PCSed. If they can do this in the digital age, they sure as hell could do it in the age of microfiche. At the end of the day, you're putting the onus on the surviving family members of a guy who is universally understood to be a hero to document everything on his headstone. That's fucking ridiculous. Just to add to this...Every year when that your up for promotion they encourage you to review your records and make sure they are accurate for your board file. Every year I've reviewed them I have found some pretty massive errors so I see how easily this could of happened, especially back then.

Yep...it's incumbent upon the person going into the board to take care in looking everything over. When I had to put my Majors packet in, I had a gap in my fitness report (missing one) because one of my OIC never submitted it. Having to track that person down years later is a pain, but it's either that or don't get promoted. Thankfully even without being current on my PME, I was fortunate enough to get selected (which doesn't happen often in the Corps these days). Thankfully they do provide someone, who knows the process inside and out to act as your guide through the promotion process.

excuse my ignorance but why is a different service than their own awarding them the medal in the first place? But even so why can't whomever is in charge of awarding the medal be responsible to summit whatever paperwork required that your referring to instead of it be expected of the person removing the award? I just seems very unorganized to require a serviceman to have to follow up with paperwork for his own medals.

In comment 12965915 SwirlingEddie said:

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Hope you and your family are doing well. My boy is growing up fast - he's prepping for Ranger School later this summer and probable deployment afterwards. He told us if he gets his tab and CIB he'll be satisfied and can then look to the next phase of his career. I like the sound of that.

Hope you and your family are also well! And good for him! However, it'll get harder and harder to earn that CIB with fewer and fewer active combat opportunities. It's similar in the Corps with fewer opportunities to earn the Combat Action Ribbon (similar to the Army CIB) for most Marines. It will so for the foreseeable future (I hope).

Please tell him that while I couldn't talk him into the Corps, he's doing you, your family, and everyone else proud. And since I do have a twin brother, who is a former Army Special Forces Major (with all of his tabs and flares), I have a soft spot for the Army.

In comment 12965948 steve in ky said:

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excuse my ignorance but why is a different service than their own awarding them the medal in the first place? But even so why can't whomever is in charge of awarding the medal be responsible to summit whatever paperwork required that your referring to instead of it be expected of the person removing the award? I just seems very unorganized to require a serviceman to have to follow up with paperwork for his own medals.

Sometimes a team of Marines will be attached to support an Army unit. And while the best thing to do with regards to any awards is to coordinate with the Marines' parent command to get them submitted for Marine awards, often the Army commander takes it upon himself to submit them for awards he can or his direct higher command can approve since it's not guaranteed that the Marine command will approve any awards on their end (Marines are the most stingy about giving awards).

We would all hope that everyone is on the ball and does it right, but often in combat environment, things get lost or not thought of. And while the commander may have wanted to award the Marines with an Army award, his admin section may not have had any experience with interservice awards.

In comment 12965959 RC02XX said:

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In comment 12965948 steve in ky said: Quote: excuse my ignorance but why is a different service than their own awarding them the medal in the first place? But even so why can't whomever is in charge of awarding the medal be responsible to summit whatever paperwork required that your referring to instead of it be expected of the person removing the award? I just seems very unorganized to require a serviceman to have to follow up with paperwork for his own medals. Sometimes a team of Marines will be attached to support an Army unit. And while the best thing to do with regards to any awards is to coordinate with the Marines' parent command to get them submitted for Marine awards, often the Army commander takes it upon himself to submit them for awards he can or his direct higher command can approve since it's not guaranteed that the Marine command will approve any awards on their end (Marines are the most stingy about giving awards). We would all hope that everyone is on the ball and does it right, but often in combat environment, things get lost or not thought of. And while the commander may have wanted to award the Marines with an Army award, his admin section may not have had any experience with interservice awards.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions

So someone may have already addressed this, but every combat veteran does get medals. They are called campaign medals.

Other medals are awarded for uncommon valor, and I think it's important to distinguish those men and women who have earned them. This is not "everyone gets a trophy little league." If someone goes above and beyond the call of duty to save the lives of their brothers, we recognize them and we should. It does not detract at all from others' service. All are honored for their sacrifice and service in many ways. And yes, I am a veteran.

As far as the OP, records back then were not kept like they are now... everything was paper, and shit happens. Just because the Service potentially doesn't have an accurate file of his service, doesn't mean that he wasn't legitimately awarded.

Now everything is scanned in to a personal file and hosted digitally. Much harder to say you were awarded a medal for which there is no evidence of.

Why is this even a story? The man is no longer here and can't even give his side of the story. Does it matter the exact number of valorous medals he was officially allowed to wear? I'm sure there were other valorous acts that deserved awards but he wasn't put in for them. That happens everyday in every conflict. Medals don't signify whether you're valorous or not, it represents an incident when someone took notice and took the initiative to get the ball rolling to start the process.

What a nonstory.

doesn't agree with his book and his book doesn't agree Navy records, so it seems. Again, the man was without a doubt a hero and he's dead.
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say he was dishonorable. Of course there is nothing dishonorable about hiding behind anonymity to take potshots at a dead guy.

the Chris Kyle story is now picking up steam.

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HOUSTON (CBSNewYork/AP) — Documents show the number of medals slain Navy Seal and “American Sniper” author Chris Kyle received is different than what he indicated in his book. Navy documents obtained by an online magazine through an open records request show that Kyle earned one Silver Star and three Bronze Stars with valor. In his best-selling book, Kyle wrote that he had received two Silver Stars and five Bronze Stars. The Intercept first reported the discrepancy and posted the documents. A Navy spokeswoman confirmed the validity of the documents and says the armed services branch is investigating the discrepancy. “The Navy considers the individual service member’s official military personnel file and our central official awards records to be the authoritative sources for verifying entitlement to decorations and awards,” Cullen James, a spokesperson for the Navy Personnel Command, told The Intercept. “The form DD214 is generated locally at the command where the service member is separated. Although the information on the DD214 should match the official records, the process involves people and inevitably some errors may occur.”

Link - ( New Window )

In comment 12972162 RC02XX said:

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the Chris Kyle story is now picking up steam. Quote: HOUSTON (CBSNewYork/AP) — Documents show the number of medals slain Navy Seal and “American Sniper” author Chris Kyle received is different than what he indicated in his book. Navy documents obtained by an online magazine through an open records request show that Kyle earned one Silver Star and three Bronze Stars with valor. In his best-selling book, Kyle wrote that he had received two Silver Stars and five Bronze Stars. The Intercept first reported the discrepancy and posted the documents. A Navy spokeswoman confirmed the validity of the documents and says the armed services branch is investigating the discrepancy. “The Navy considers the individual service member’s official military personnel file and our central official awards records to be the authoritative sources for verifying entitlement to decorations and awards,” Cullen James, a spokesperson for the Navy Personnel Command, told The Intercept. “The form DD214 is generated locally at the command where the service member is separated. Although the information on the DD214 should match the official records, the process involves people and inevitably some errors may occur.” Link - ( New Window )

Check out the board of editors and missions statement of The Intercept. Sort of accuse first and investigate the discrepancies later.

BTW - Only 1 silver star and 3 bronze stars? He ain't worth shit.

Only 4 stars vs. 7? Let's ruin the guy's reputation. Kyle is so kick ass that I hope he comes out of the dirt to fuck with the Intercept.

He said 2 and 4. The fact that the Navy couldn't or wouldn't produce the documentation for two of those medals, I don't know whether that's a paperwork error or what (I doubt it's an issue with classification, though Ronnie you might know more) but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

In comment 12972185 Dunedin81 said:

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He said 2 and 4. The fact that the Navy couldn't or wouldn't produce the documentation for two of those medals, I don't know whether that's a paperwork error or what (I doubt it's an issue with classification, though Ronnie you might know more) but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

But Glenn Greenwald isn't.

In comment 12972180 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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Only 4 stars vs. 7? Let's ruin the guy's reputation. Kyle is so kick ass that I hope he comes out of the dirt to fuck with the Intercept.

the harshest critics in the latest story I read about Kyle are fellow seals. It seems like they knew he was exaggerating his medals and was asked to correct it by Navy officials multiple times.

I'm not assuming this narrative myself, why would I, I have no knowledge of it, it's well documented now and a world I admittedly don't understand.

All things being equal, Kyle having a DD214 that says he received more awards than he claimed, not less, I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. Especially when the author's claim to fame is interviewing Snowden.

and was urged to correct it, but didn't. Kyle didn't alter his records, but he went with the decorations listed in the 214 although he knew it was in error. At least, I think that's what's going on there.

Legend though he was, Kyle was not adverse to a tall tale or two - the story of sniping from the roof of the Superdome during Katrina or the would-be robber he supposedly killed at a gas station in Texas, for example. I don't know what the truth is, and The Intercept is a rag written by Jimmy Janos admirer Greenwald, so I'm not surprised that they're going after a dead man for no apparent reason. Still, it wouldn't shock me if it were true.

In comment 12972228 Dunedin81 said:

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All things being equal, Kyle having a DD214 that says he received more awards than he claimed, not less, I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. Especially when the author's claim to fame is interviewing Snowden.

First, I think the guy is a hero and should be treated as such, but it's not all anonymous sources. I don't even want to debate this, since it's irrelevant to me and like i said it's a world I never lived in, so I feel sheepish to even venture down this path.

Quote:

Navy spokeswoman Lt. Jackie Pau told CNN Kyle's official military personnel file states he received the lower counts for medals, while his discharge documents, known as a DD-214, indicated the higher numbers for both the Silver Stars and Bronze Stars, and were cited by Kyle in his book. "The Navy considers the individual service member's official military personnel file and our central official awards records to be the authoritative sources for verifying entitlement to decorations and awards," Pau told CNN. "The form DD214 is generated locally at the command where the service member is separated. Although the information on the DD214 should match the official records, the process involves people and inevitably some errors may occur. "

In comment 12972185 Dunedin81 said:

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He said 2 and 4. The fact that the Navy couldn't or wouldn't produce the documentation for two of those medals, I don't know whether that's a paperwork error or what (I doubt it's an issue with classification, though Ronnie you might know more) but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

From my experience, the idea that an award is classified is actually a weird myth. While you can provide classified information to add weight to the award, the award process itself should be unclassified. While the Navy may not be able to provide all documents (there are many documents that are used for BSM and higher awards, so some being classified is possible), it should be able to provide the citations of those awards. This is a bit weird, and I would venture that it's document error.

it's certainly possible that he embellished, but I don't trust the author's motivations and if he has a DD214 saying he got 2 of the Silver and 5 of the Bronze Star but he actually claims less than that I think it makes his account rather credible.

In comment 12972550 Dunedin81 said:

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it's certainly possible that he embellished, but I don't trust the author's motivations and if he has a DD214 saying he got 2 of the Silver and 5 of the Bronze Star but he actually claims less than that I think it makes his account rather credible.

I'm with you. I just noticed that it was in my Bing newsfeed, which means that it's trending.

to go after the record of Kyle. I mean - there are so many people out there who claimed they served in some capacity and didn't, or those who claimed they saw combat when they didn't, or those who claimed they were injured or received certain commendations and didn't, that trying to trivialize those who actually were awarded medals seems really counterproductive.

I'd rather throw scorn on the guy who went on "America's Got Talent" and claimed that he had a stutter due to an IED, but could sing beautifully.

Oh, you mean like Tom Harkin and Richard "the Dick" Blumenthal!

In comment 12972601 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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to go after the record of Kyle. I mean - there are so many people out there who claimed they served in some capacity and didn't, or those who claimed they saw combat when they didn't, or those who claimed they were injured or received certain commendations and didn't, that trying to trivialize those who actually were awarded medals seems really counterproductive. I'd rather throw scorn on the guy who went on "America's Got Talent" and claimed that he had a stutter due to an IED, but could sing beautifully.

Jealousy? Didn't the guy from Lone Survivor (Marcus Luttrell) get a lot of blowback from the military and some of his peers?

Just trying to find the motive because I agree with you.

In comment 12972606 pjcas18 said:

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In comment 12972601 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: to go after the record of Kyle. I mean - there are so many people out there who claimed they served in some capacity and didn't, or those who claimed they saw combat when they didn't, or those who claimed they were injured or received certain commendations and didn't, that trying to trivialize those who actually were awarded medals seems really counterproductive. I'd rather throw scorn on the guy who went on "America's Got Talent" and claimed that he had a stutter due to an IED, but could sing beautifully. Jealousy? Didn't the guy from Lone Survivor (Marcus Luttrell) get a lot of blowback from the military and some of his peers? Just trying to find the motive because I agree with you.

I'm not sure it's necessarily jealousy as much as it bothers some people when the "heroes" seem to exhibit lesser qualities. I don't agree with anyone going after Kyle and even Luttrell, but some take it upon themselves to go after disingenuous individuals.

DD214 (separation papers) list him with 2 silver and 6 bronze stars.

So the official paperwork says he had one more bronze star then he claimed.....