So, BBB informs us there are 3 pretty big reveals for book readers. Really looking forward to the episode. I have seen no hints so my guesses are probably wildly inaccurate but...
1. We know the white walkers are part of the show so I guess we get confirmation that the head guy is the night's king. Bonus reveal, he was a Stark.
2. There was actually a Northern Conspiracy against the mad king
3. We find out who the son's of the harpy leader is, but for the life of me I can't figure out who it would be based on the show.
Purely guesses based on the HBO preview from last week so these aren't spoilers.
I am using the term loosely but the show is using it to tell viewers some vital information and we are also led to believe that Bran has only begun to tap into his power.
We used to learn a ton of information by scenes featuring exquisite dialogue between people like Littlefinger, Varys, Tryion, etc. We've gotten far less of that as of late.
Yeah, "mostly an observer" is probably more accurate. In the ToJ scene he yelled to his Dad and stopped in his tracks like he heard it. There's obviously more stuff like that in the books. But it's not really time travelling either.
It's more like the end of Interstellar, but without infinite bookcases and Matthew McConnaughey. Time loses it's fixed linear direction and Bran can mostly go watch what's up. So far he hasn't learned how to do much but make whispers and rustling leaves. Perhaps there will be a lot more he can do in the future.
In hindsight, the Ned TOJ scene foreshadows the HODOR scene. Taking a leap here but the difference is Bran can warg HODOR, different connection. Plus they are together at the same time in both time periods.
Another gripe - there were about 20 dragonglass spears leaning against the cave entrance wall, why not use more of those i.e. take a shot or 5 at the Night's King with em....nah lets just self-detonate our nature-bombs while we suicide by wight squad.
People seem to be loving this scene / episode, but I thought it was weak and frustrating in practically every story arc shown, and a step back from what has otherwise been a very cool and rewarding season.
Seems like it's set up perfectly for Cold Hands.
Seems much more likely that he's Coldhands, but that might be too simple and obvious for Martin's twisted mind.
1 - origin of WW
2 - Hodor
3 - ...?
Depends on how you count. The three I heard about included those two, plus the present altering the past, which had been lightly hinted - but not shown - at the ToJ. I guess you could say that's the same as #2, since Hodor's condition was caused by past and present intertwining.
I hadn't seen the leaked episode, just a general description of the "Aha!" moments for book-geeks.
Advocates of certain ToJ theories also seem to think it's a big deal that Meera is now the Last Man Standing north of the Wall. I dunno. Season 6 has brought several bad-ass chicks to the fore. They can't all be Jon Snow's sister, or the Twin that was promised, or the Third Head of the Dragon, or whatever.
Personally, I'm eager to get back to King's Landing. Even if the whole Lannister/Tyrell/Faith Militant confrontation is a futile sideshow before Winter comes, it's definitely where the best action (and acting) is.
Last week was a treasure trove: Margaery and the High Sparrow, Margaery and Loras, Tommen and the High Sparrow, Tommen and Cersei, Cersei and the Small Council. Of course, it was all largely overshadowed at the end by an implausible pig-roast and Emilia Clarke's boobs. And this week was The Walking Dead meets live-action Punch and Judy.
Next week, we can look forward to a lot of fun in King's Landing. Plus, the new Red Priestess might reinvigorate the bromance in Meereen. The Varys-Tyrion chemistry was getting a bit stale.
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We used to learn a ton of information by scenes featuring exquisite dialogue between people like Littlefinger, Varys, Tryion, etc. We've gotten far less of that as of late.
Last week was a treasure trove: Margaery and the High Sparrow, Margaery and Loras, Tommen and the High Sparrow, Tommen and Cersei, Cersei and the Small Council. Of course, it was all largely overshadowed at the end by an implausible pig-roast and Emilia Clarke's boobs. And this week was The Walking Dead meets live-action Punch and Judy.
Next week, we can look forward to a lot of fun in King's Landing. Plus, the new Red Priestess might reinvigorate the bromance in Meereen. The Varys-Tyrion chemistry was getting a bit stale.
Yeah, the stuff north of the wall is starting to runs its course which I didn't think i'd ever say. Definitely more interested in everything else which wasn't the case just 2 weeks ago.
Like, why not go back and do something useful ? Stop the children of the forest from creating the white walkers maybe? Stop Ned from being killed? Nah I got it...lets go back and make Wylis special-needs!
It's just kinda weak. Maybe ties into the new red priestesses "everything happens for a reason" speech, but I dunno. Don't like it, so far.
See I took what happened to Wylis as 3-Eyed Crow trying to show Bran how disastrous be able to interact with someone from the past can be. Bran was nearly crying when he realized what was happening to Hodor. Like he was thinking, "I did this!?" I don't think he will try to change the past anytime soon.
A second possibility is that if 3-Eyed did this only to make Wylis into s "special needs," he did it because fate needs Hodor to carry Bran all the way to the cave, and to finally hold the door against the Others to save Bran.
Saving Ned probably prevents the Starks from being deposed and destroyed, but it also would prevent Bran from making this journey to meet 3-Eyed. If Bran goes back to the past and tells himself "don't climb to that window," he never gets tossed out by Jaime, and he makes that trip to King's Landing.
Ha, I feel like they're just getting started. Benjen is a good guess to be Bran and Meera's bailout, but in light of the Wildling army, the Night's King and the undead...what would keep Benjen from returning to warn everyone all this time? He had bigger fish to fry but what?
Coldhands theory is gaining steam, but I thought there was enough in the books to make that unlikely. It would also be somewhat cheap imo that a five season wait end in undead Benjen riding a moose and serving as an escort.
We're seeing Bran's immense power but I'm interested to see how and why he uses it. So he's likely going to find out his Aunt gave birth to a Targaryen heir. Aside from telling Jon when he's finished, uh, surviving, what does he do with that information?
2. Hmmm... that pretty much takes care of it.
Why doesn't he go back to when Ned was beheaded and someone change that.
Once you have a power like this it becomes a little convenient to me about how/when it gets used.
I know it's a fantasy/adventure story and obviously not real, but I also like some level of reality in my stories where people can warg into other beings go back in time and impact the people they see in those episodes.
So one of two things is going to happen: Either Arya successfully fools Jaqen into thinking she really believes she's "no one," or she leaves the service of the many faced god and strikes out on her own, unleashing her vengeance.
So one of two things is going to happen: Either Arya successfully fools Jaqen into thinking she really believes she's "no one," or she leaves the service of the many faced god and strikes out on her own, unleashing her vengeance.
Hopefully meeting back up with Nymeria along the way..
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being a complete waste of screen time, I hugely disagree. What we saw during the play segment was that Arya will never become "no one." Despite everything she does, she can't shake her past. She can't stop being Arya Stark. She has too much hate in her, and she's too vengeful.
So one of two things is going to happen: Either Arya successfully fools Jaqen into thinking she really believes she's "no one," or she leaves the service of the many faced god and strikes out on her own, unleashing her vengeance.
Hopefully meeting back up with Nymeria along the way..
It's just Ghost and Nymeria left, right? Assuming that was really shaggydog in two weeks ago's episode.
It's just Ghost and Nymeria left, right? Assuming that was really shaggydog in two weeks ago's episode. [/quote]
Assuming Summer and Shaggydog are both truly dead (I think they are), yes.
I think it makes a lot of sense. Benjen is someone that resonates a lot more with book readers than show people, but I think it will come back to him.
And I would advise anyone to not look at IMDB cast credits...
Two, Bran is the Night's King as an adult because armed with the knowledge that the Children of the Forest created the White Walkers, adult Bran tries to stop everything as the NK before they kill everyone, or something. Neither of these theories out there on the internet today make much sense to me personally, but I have no idea anymore now that we've gone down the time travel paradox road.
Two, Bran is the Night's King as an adult because armed with the knowledge that the Children of the Forest created the White Walkers, adult Bran tries to stop everything as the NK before they kill everyone, or something. Neither of these theories out there on the internet today make much sense to me personally, but I have no idea anymore now that we've gone down the time travel paradox road.
I don't really care for either of those, especially the second one.
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do you think Coldhands will end up being Benjen? It would be cool to see Coldhands and Bran will need someone other than Meera to escort him to wherever he goes next.
I think it makes a lot of sense. Benjen is someone that resonates a lot more with book readers than show people, but I think it will come back to him.
And I would advise anyone to not look at IMDB cast credits...
Martin has said Coldhands is not Benjen Stark, though the show might take different liberties.
Robin is in charge, but he's living under the tutelage of Lord Royce and being controlled by Littlefinger.
Whatever you do, don't think of an elephant.
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I see two schools of thought out there today. Some people out there thinking, this was Bran's death scene (even if it really wasn't in present time). Meaning he's the old three-eyed raven training his younger self. In other words Max von Sydow played older adult Bran and this was it.
Two, Bran is the Night's King as an adult because armed with the knowledge that the Children of the Forest created the White Walkers, adult Bran tries to stop everything as the NK before they kill everyone, or something. Neither of these theories out there on the internet today make much sense to me personally, but I have no idea anymore now that we've gone down the time travel paradox road.
I don't really care for either of those, especially the second one.
I don't either. But I saw a post on another site today that reminded me in show Jojen Reed's introduction, Bran is trying to hit the three-eyed raven with an arrow and Jojen tells him "You can't kill it you know. Because the raven is you." In my opinion that's pretty compelling and seems difficult to explain away.
Why doesn't he go back to when Ned was beheaded and someone change that.
Once you have a power like this it becomes a little convenient to me about how/when it gets used.
I know it's a fantasy/adventure story and obviously not real, but I also like some level of reality in my stories where people can warg into other beings go back in time and impact the people they see in those episodes.
Well, first there is the whole paradox issue, if he did either of those things, then its likely he wouldn't have gone north of the wall in the first place. Which means he couldn't have fixed those issues...
The other thing (for the first question) is that I don't think Bran has seen his own past before has he? It is possible that he can't go back to where he was before.
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touch a tree and go back to when Jamie pushes him out the window and change that action?
Why doesn't he go back to when Ned was beheaded and someone change that.
Once you have a power like this it becomes a little convenient to me about how/when it gets used.
I know it's a fantasy/adventure story and obviously not real, but I also like some level of reality in my stories where people can warg into other beings go back in time and impact the people they see in those episodes.
Well, first there is the whole paradox issue, if he did either of those things, then its likely he wouldn't have gone north of the wall in the first place. Which means he couldn't have fixed those issues...
The other thing (for the first question) is that I don't think Bran has seen his own past before has he? It is possible that he can't go back to where he was before.
He wasn't in the yard at Wintefell with Hodor training with him or when he had the seizure? Hard to tell if young Bran was in any of the "flashbacks". I guess Hodor is a lot older than Bran so it wouldn't fit.
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In comment 12967759 pjcas18 said:
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touch a tree and go back to when Jamie pushes him out the window and change that action?
Why doesn't he go back to when Ned was beheaded and someone change that.
Once you have a power like this it becomes a little convenient to me about how/when it gets used.
I know it's a fantasy/adventure story and obviously not real, but I also like some level of reality in my stories where people can warg into other beings go back in time and impact the people they see in those episodes.
Well, first there is the whole paradox issue, if he did either of those things, then its likely he wouldn't have gone north of the wall in the first place. Which means he couldn't have fixed those issues...
The other thing (for the first question) is that I don't think Bran has seen his own past before has he? It is possible that he can't go back to where he was before.
He wasn't in the yard at Wintefell with Hodor training with him or when he had the seizure? Hard to tell if young Bran was in any of the "flashbacks". I guess Hodor is a lot older than Bran so it wouldn't fit.
Those flashbacks are from when Ned was a kid, so Bran can't have been there.
anyway, if the old guy is really Bran, no reason he can't go back in time to see himself younger, unless of course the writers say he can't. LOL.
All this talk of "time travel" is really misleading since technically he hasn't physically gone anywhere. I suppose he could develop some of those abilities in the future (although that would be really hokey and lame), but what evidence is there at this point to support any of it?
Intentional or coincidence?
Link to reddit. - ( New Window )
2. Hmmm... that pretty much takes care of it.
Was Bran whispering to the Mad King?
Is he responsible for the King going Mad!
Is the Raven Bran being used by the Children to destroy the kingdom?
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1. Tell Prince Rhaegar to give the damned flowers to his wife and leave Aunt Lyanna alone.
2. Hmmm... that pretty much takes care of it.
Was Bran whispering to the Mad King?
Is he responsible for the King going Mad!
Is the Raven Bran being used by the Children to destroy the kingdom?
Go back even further. Raven Bran tells the first Andals that came to westeros "Hey those Children of the Forest are going to create something that kills everyone, so go kick their ass". Which then of course causes the children of the forest to create the White Walkers to protect themselves....
Well, I managed to stay off IMDB for an hour, then caved in.
Not such a big spoiler, really. Joseph Mawle's return to the cast has been in the "It is known" category for some time. The character's name is a slight twist, I guess - it sort of splits the difference in the Benjen vs. Undead Benjen vs. Not Benjen debate.
Pretty fickle and pointless complaining.
Link - ( New Window )
Who is that? I can't make out a person there.
and not sure who you were directing your comment to, but in case it was me, I wasn't criticizing anything really, just commenting, opining, and editorializing, I have very few if any criticisms of this show.
and there was like 20 people there. were they like delegates? I saw no way that many people were making 1000 ships in less than 10 years and thousands of trees. But I have no clue how long it takes to make a boat or how many trees.
To be fair, there's already a wall. So they gotta build something. But, I promise you, nobody makes ships like Euron does. They're gonna be yuuuuge.
Imagine how crazy Bran the Builder sounded when he called on the Northmen to build a wall of ice and stone 700 feet high and 300 miles long? Of course, he never promised to get the Others to pay for it.
BTW, be careful about mentioning candidates by name. Isn't that a bannable offense now?