So week after week we get told to make a no spoiler thread and then we get called stupid when we do? Got it. There's a thread a few spots down for you to play in.
So week after week we get told to make a no spoiler thread and then we get called stupid when we do? Got it. There's a thread a few spots down for you to play in.
You mean no Book Spoilers
Not Episode spoilers for those who haven't seen it.
So week after week we get told to make a no spoiler thread and then we get called stupid when we do? Got it. There's a thread a few spots down for you to play in.
You mean no Book Spoilers
Not Episode spoilers for those who haven't seen it.
He obviously means no book spoilers OR spoilers based on speculation by book readers about plot details not introduced on the show. This is discussed weekly.
I absolutely love this show and have been thrilled with this season so far, but this episode just didn't register for me.
I found the Iron Islands storyline kind of boring. Balon's brother was just kind of introduced from out of nowhere, kills Balon, just shows up in the middle of the "election" and then Theon and his sister flee with a ton of ships during the coronation ceremony?
Is there a cure for greyscale or not? Dany's command to "find a cure" outweighs Jorah's survival motivation?
The Children throwing thermal detonators? Hodor getting his "name" by being warged by Bran in two time periods at once? I think the final scene was trying to live up to Hardhomme. But it didn't for me.
I don't know. Maybe I need to digest the episode and hear other fans' thoughts. But even some of the lines, like the priestess referring to Dany "crucifying the Masters for their sins," just seemed a bit lazy and un-GoT like.
Still a great show, though. Already looking forward to next week.
Yara and Theon left by themselves. They took a large part of the fleet. They had supporters. I got the feeling that the crowd was split and half went with them.
We've seen it THREE times now in his flash backs. They are beating us over the head with it. I think it's awesome that he sort of created a time loop with Hodor from such an amazing event that takes place at the time of his death.
What was Littlefinger trying to imply by "reminding" Sansa that Jon is her half brother? At first you wouldmthinkmthere as additional conversation between the two that we didn't see but that doesn't explain why Brienne is in the dark about the lie.
It all leaves me wondering how much Sansa really has (or hasn't) changed from the spoiled, Jon hating brat of a child she was. Or I'm completely wrong and it's for some selfless reason, perhaps something to protect Jon? Totally lost on that but very interested...
And how about the recent trend of Sansa becoming the biggest badass in the family while Jon broods and mopes.
She's tough, but her strategic thinking might be a little cloudy. When you're offered the Knights of the Vale, you take them. Can't trust Littlefinger? No problem: take his ass hostage and have your loyal Queensguard kill him at the first sign of betrayal.
Is that why she lied to Jon about meeting with Littlefinger? She didn't want to tell him she had just blown off the help of the biggest, best army north of the Trident on principle?
RE: Bing lingering question mark...why did Sansa lie to Jon? Â
What was Littlefinger trying to imply by "reminding" Sansa that Jon is her half brother? At first you wouldmthinkmthere as additional conversation between the two that we didn't see but that doesn't explain why Brienne is in the dark about the lie.
It all leaves me wondering how much Sansa really has (or hasn't) changed from the spoiled, Jon hating brat of a child she was. Or I'm completely wrong and it's for some selfless reason, perhaps something to protect Jon? Totally lost on that but very interested...
"So...turns out they're all set here. Let's head back to the Vale now. Anybody want to stop for ice cream on the way home?"
Listen to what she told little finger. She still feels it?
Ramsey's child is in her.
Ahhh, very good. Gotta be honest, wasn't sure how long ago it as and I thought she was just implying that he was really rough with her. A pregnancy never occurred to me.
Know what I think she should do? Take care of it. I won't say it for all the little baby ears in here, but it rhymes with "shmashmortion". I'm just saying, she should go to Mole Town and get a shmashmortion at the shmashmortion clinic.
The faceless men are good, evil, or simply mercenaries.
One thing that I never understood (or perhaps failed to pick up on) -- way back when Arya first encounters Jaqen Haegar (yes, I'm sure my spelling is all fucked up), what is he in captivity for? Did he commit a crime? Or are we supposed to assume he put himself there via faceless man skills to make her acquaintance?
They follow the many face God. This God is cool with them all being assassins and killing for money? WTF? I get it. Death comes to us all. Still doesn't seem right.
Listen to what she told little finger. She still feels it?
Ramsey's child is in her.
Ahhh, very good. Gotta be honest, wasn't sure how long ago it as and I thought she was just implying that he was really rough with her. A pregnancy never occurred to me.
Know what I think she should do? Take care of it. I won't say it for all the little baby ears in here, but it rhymes with "shmashmortion". I'm just saying, she should go to Mole Town and get a shmashmortion at the shmashmortion clinic.
My interpretation was that the writers chose the language to lead speculation that she's pregnant, but that Sansa the character doesn't know she is. She just things she feels all fucked up and broken from being abused and raped.
The faceless men are good, evil, or simply mercenaries.
One thing that I never understood (or perhaps failed to pick up on) -- way back when Arya first encounters Jaqen Haegar (yes, I'm sure my spelling is all fucked up), what is he in captivity for? Did he commit a crime? Or are we supposed to assume he put himself there via faceless man skills to make her acquaintance?
Yeah, I'm pretty lost about the Faceless Men. How can you claim to be doing a Gods will when anyone can come to you and pay you to off someone, for as simple a (perceived) slight as someone being a better actor? Not only is that petty and counterintuitive to how "important" their work is, but that entire 8-10 minute scene with the play was an absolute waste of time compared to the rest of the episode.
As for Jaqen, I have to think he allowed himself to be caught. He wouldn't be very good at what he does if he ended up in a dungeon, and the worst of dungeons at that.
1) Has the show really gone into depth about the children of the forest? No right? Just that they are part of the "original people" of the land? Why are they protecting/helping Bran?
2) The man who was stabbed and became the king white walker - do we know who he is, or is it speculation at this point?
3) The hodor thing was a bit confusing, but I guess it will get explained as the show goes along. Is bran "changing" the past? Or is the present and past linked, and occurring simultaneously? The fact that up into this point he has only said the word "hodor," means that Bran warging into him happened in the future..
In comment 12967393 Anando said:
[quote] 1) Has the show really gone into depth about the children of the forest? No right? Just that they are part of the "original people" of the land? Why are they protecting/helping Bran?
2) The man who was stabbed and became the king white walker - do we know who he is, or is it speculation at this point?
3) The hodor thing was a bit confusing, but I guess it will get explained as the show goes along. Is bran "changing" the past? Or is the present and past linked, and occurring simultaneously? The fact that up into this point he has only said the word "hodor," means that Bran warging into him happened in the future.. [/quote
1) The show has not gone into depth about the background of the children other than to say they were the first inhabitants of Westeros before man arrived from Essos. I believe they help/serve the Three Eyed a Raven/Bran because they share the greensight as well as the old gods and have similar aims.
2) no indication has been given as to the identity of the first white walker. It could just be someone they took captive during the war. Or you could rationalize that it had to be someone important/powerful to become such a powerful being. Will either know shortly and it will be explained or we never hear of it again and will know it's a relevant.
3) Time is a flat circl...ahhh shit, wrong show...
I think the land travel is more astounding these last few episodes:
So Theon just went, say, from halfway to the wall from Winterfell to Pyke in an episode? Littlefinger takes a leisurely stroll from the Eyrie to Mole Town (near Castle Black)?
Didn't it take months for King Robert to travel from King's Landing to Winterfell? Has Sansa been holed up at Castle Black that long? If so, it took them that long to realize they're outnumbered and need to go raise troops?
Sansa lying is an example of her making this too personal, Â
which is understandable, but often leads to serious problems for people on this show. Letting Littlefinger walk seems like a massive mistake on her part. I can easily see him trying to get back in the Lannisters' good graces.
Sansa not letting Brienne blow Littlefinger away Â
seemed a bit unbelievable. I mean, why not? She knows his ambitions and that he's the de facto commander of a large army joining the fray. She said herself that Littlefinger knew Ramsay was a monster.
"George R.R. Martin is a bit of a New York Giants fan, who knew? After losing a bet that the Dallas Cowboys would not have a better season than the Giants, he had to include a character named Petrek whose family crest was similar to the Cowboys star." GoT and the GMEN! - ( New Window )
"George R.R. Martin is a bit of a New York Giants fan, who knew? After losing a bet that the Dallas Cowboys would not have a better season than the Giants, he had to include a character named Petrek whose family crest was similar to the Cowboys star." GoT and the GMEN! - ( New Window )
That scene was a flashback, probably supposed to have taken place ~10,000 years prior. It's possible it was someone of Stark lineage, but it was definitely not Benjen.
"George R.R. Martin is a bit of a New York Giants fan, who knew? After losing a bet that the Dallas Cowboys would not have a better season than the Giants, he had to include a character named Petrek whose family crest was similar to the Cowboys star." GoT and the GMEN! - ( New Window )
Yes, it's widely reported. The giant who was at Hardhomme and who helped save Jon's friends a few episodes at Castle Black is named Wun Wun, in honor of Phil Simms (who wore #11).
I think the land travel is more astounding these last few episodes:
So Theon just went, say, from halfway to the wall from Winterfell to Pyke in an episode? Littlefinger takes a leisurely stroll from the Eyrie to Mole Town (near Castle Black)?
Didn't it take months for King Robert to travel from King's Landing to Winterfell? Has Sansa been holed up at Castle Black that long? If so, it took them that long to realize they're outnumbered and need to go raise troops?
I noticed how fast people seem to be moving now too. I think it too months for Robert to move with a full court. Carts of supplies, people on foot etc.
The other thing to consider is that we have no idea how fast their ships are. 19th century clipper ships could do 400-500 miles a day.
As much as I was disappointed with last season, I have been equally impressed with this season.
So here's my speculation on Hodor becoming a simpleton: Bran being a warg- allows him to enter the mind of simple creatures: birds, dire wolves, etc. Entering into Hodor’s mind to control him in the present was fine because it was not more complex that warging into a bird or a wolf (and hopefully someday a dragon). But did entering into the mind of someone with normal abilities as Bran did to Hodor in the past drive Hodor from being the normal, kind stable boy to a simpleton? Of course this event is looped in time.
Anyway I for one loved the use of the present linked to the past.
but i'm not really feeling the time travel angle. No idea if this is GRRM's vision, but I feel like its a really lame/convenient way to tell the story, makes me wonder how much other stuff they will explain with it.
The episode was full of some pretty good moments, capped off with the Hodor/time reveal, but I really hope the story doesn't start revolving around altering time.
but i'm not really feeling the time travel angle. No idea if this is GRRM's vision, but I feel like its a really lame/convenient way to tell the story, makes me wonder how much other stuff they will explain with it.
The episode was full of some pretty good moments, capped off with the Hodor/time reveal, but I really hope the story doesn't start revolving around altering time.
I agree, I'm fine as a one off thing. But it adds another layer of complexity to an already complex show if it's going to be recurring.
Also, what value does knowing the Children of the Forest creating the White Walkers add? Is there something more to that?
almost irrelevant if Bran and/or anyone else has that kind of power. Its all just eye candy if Bran ends up being this kind of force who can alter time. I really hope I am wrong and they scale back on that story line, but i'm starting to have my doubts especially how much they've accelerated the pace to fit the whole story in. Time travel can basically makes any story line end at any moment with a plausible reason.
time travel is Deus ex Machina and generally kinda weak / lazy Â
Minor annoyance of mine is the sudden rates of travel. People are getting around much more quickly.
You answered your own question. The rates of travel alone shows me things are being sped up because it all needs to fit; why else do it? We used to have subplots during someone's journey from Winterfell to the Wall, and that just hasn't happened much, if at all this season.
I don't know why people get offended or need some info on others thinking the show is being rushed.
Nothing's changed with the source content, and the length of the series is the same( unlike Rome, who had to condense the 2nd and 3rd season into one).
Just saw ten minutes of a Shakespearean play, Jorah leaving for the 3rd time, another Red Lady making a speech, Jon doing nothing but finally mounting his horse, etc.
... and could travel openly during the day, Sansa, Brienne and Pod could probably reach Castle Black (6-700 miles north of Winterfell) in well under a month - say three weeks. In the meantime, Littlefinger has sailed up to Runestone to visit Royce and Robin, then continued up the coast - probably to near Eastwatch - and then inland to Mole's Town for their rendezvous. Considering the progress Arya and Bran have made in their training, and the density of developments in King's Landing and the Dothraki Sea, I don't think the pace of travel is that improbable.
The reason so much time was spent on the Kingroad in Season 1 was that the show needed to acquaint a new audience with the time, place and characters. Did you really want another five-episode meander through the countryside with Brienne and Pod?
Interstellar-like garbage, I'll be very, very disappointed.
The story is best with pinches of supernatural fantasy here and there with a consistent focus on the strengths and flaws of human character, especially in positions of power. I'm not digging these Children of the Forest. They look lame, act lame, and (so far) serve a lame purpose in the storyline.
It seems like the lazy way out of a jam, by the author.
What were the rules of the smoke baby that killed Renly? I'd argue that was an infinitely larger crock of horseshit than this. That was the only way Stannis could defeat Renly.
Nothing's changed with the source content, and the length of the series is the same( unlike Rome, who had to condense the 2nd and 3rd season into one).
Just saw ten minutes of a Shakespearean play, Jorah leaving for the 3rd time, another Red Lady making a speech, Jon doing nothing but finally mounting his horse, etc.
Well its based on plenty, but this is a no spoilers thread. Not sure what to tell you, i think its being rushed, why do you even care?
Nothing's changed with the source content, and the length of the series is the same( unlike Rome, who had to condense the 2nd and 3rd season into one).
Just saw ten minutes of a Shakespearean play, Jorah leaving for the 3rd time, another Red Lady making a speech, Jon doing nothing but finally mounting his horse, etc.
Well its based on plenty, but this is a no spoilers thread. Not sure what to tell you, i think its being rushed, why do you even care?
You keep stating it for a fact, don't understand why. It could've been outlined seven years ago exactly as it's unfolding now.
Argument every week. I'm with Schabadoo. Yes things are moving quicker but I feel that's because the story is reaching its climax. We no longer need hours of boring backstory. I don't feel as if anything is rushed and by all accounts they are expanding the 7th season based of the seventh book for TV watchers. Think of it as a bonus.
this entire thread is people's opinion, why is this any different? Multiple people I work with think the same as me(especially after this most recent episode aired, some non book readers) and others don't, they don't jump at my throat asking me to prove my point, so I don't see why its being done now.
Some plotlines are being ridiculously sped through. You can make an argument that its because it only needs 2-5 minutes to get the point across, or you can argue that its just to move the story along.
they aren't expanding the show, not sure how many times that will be the defense mechanism, but i'm not going to bother with it anymore.
As for the show, i'm most interested in what Littlefinger does. After barely being on it, and now being thrown back into it with what I thought was a neutering by Sansa, I hope he backstabs her since she should have killed him. She left an opening and I hope he takes it. His little screen time needs to be beefed up. The way he delivered the news of Riverrun and Jon being her "Half Brother" was kinda weak. I'm ithing for an epic scene with him.
I'm also interested in what Theon/Asha will be doing with the Iron Fleet. Race to Mereen perhaps? Or will the go north and try to take the north?
I think (obliviously I have no way to know) that the time travel scenes were only used as teaching tools for Bran. As was said he needs to know everything. The Hodor ending was a nice but heart wrenching twist on the naming/purpose of a favorite character.
I would be surprised and very disappointed if the writers decide to wrap up the story lines by time traveling back to say: stop the white walkers from being created or stop Ned Stark from being executed or stop the Red wedding….etc.
I trust they know that once is a clever cinematic devise, twice is a cheap trick and beneath the quality of GoT.
that essentially my point, this season, while much better than last season, has pacing issues left and right. I just can't accept that Littlefinger gets to the wall the scene after Sansa decides she's going to march back and take Winterfell with Jon. Its convenient because it needs to be in order to move the story along.
And any guesses to how long it takes the 47 citizens of Pyke to build 1,000 ships? My guess is by episode 8, and somehow, they will also catch up to Theon.
this entire thread is people's opinion, why is this any different? Multiple people I work with think the same as me(especially after this most recent episode aired, some non book readers) and others don't, they don't jump at my throat asking me to prove my point, so I don't see why its being done now.
Some plotlines are being ridiculously sped through. You can make an argument that its because it only needs 2-5 minutes to get the point across, or you can argue that its just to move the story along.
So why should I care what you think? You're the one beating the same sad story every week. I could use your same rationale in reverse. I've given you direct quotes from the writers saying the original intention was to have seven television seasons to match seven books. We know for a almost certainty that after season 6 is over we are likely getting 14-15 episodes instead of 10. For the idiots at home, that means we are getting MORE.
You dont agree? GREAT. For the rest of us that love this season, and feel the pace is fantastic, we dont need you berating the same crap week after week.
that essentially my point, this season, while much better than last season, has pacing issues left and right. I just can't accept that Littlefinger gets to the wall the scene after Sansa decides she's going to march back and take Winterfell with Jon. Its convenient because it needs to be in order to move the story along.
And any guesses to how long it takes the 47 citizens of Pyke to build 1,000 ships? My guess is by episode 8, and somehow, they will also catch up to Theon.
I have an issue with it as well, although I wouldn't get too caught up in it. It worries me that someone could arrive in the nick of time (Vale knights if they were to attack Ramsey, Stannis and the wildlings on the Wall, heck, Aragorn and the Dead at Minas Tirith and the cavalry in any western) if time has no meaning.
this entire thread is people's opinion, why is this any different? Multiple people I work with think the same as me(especially after this most recent episode aired, some non book readers) and others don't, they don't jump at my throat asking me to prove my point, so I don't see why its being done now.
Some plotlines are being ridiculously sped through. You can make an argument that its because it only needs 2-5 minutes to get the point across, or you can argue that its just to move the story along.
So why should I care what you think? You're the one beating the same sad story every week. I could use your same rationale in reverse. I've given you direct quotes from the writers saying the original intention was to have seven television seasons to match seven books. We know for a almost certainty that after season 6 is over we are likely getting 14-15 episodes instead of 10. For the idiots at home, that means we are getting MORE.
You dont agree? GREAT. For the rest of us that love this season, and feel the pace is fantastic, we dont need you berating the same crap week after week.
Perfect, and feel free to ignore me, or start a non-UConn4523 thread, either works for me.
Me thinking the story is rushed is no different than thinking Jon kills Ramsay, or Sansa is pregnant, or really anything else. The only difference is you are taking it as a slight against a show you think has little or no flaws at all.
IMO, if I'm allowed to still have one, this show was at its very peak when the pieces were being set and the game's moves were being made. With the end in sight we are getting less of the game which is naturally going to happen, but for me, its not as compelling.
... and could travel openly during the day, Sansa, Brienne and Pod could probably reach Castle Black (6-700 miles north of Winterfell) in well under a month - say three weeks. In the meantime, Littlefinger has sailed up to Runestone to visit Royce and Robin, then continued up the coast - probably to near Eastwatch - and then inland to Mole's Town for their rendezvous. Considering the progress Arya and Bran have made in their training, and the density of developments in King's Landing and the Dothraki Sea, I don't think the pace of travel is that improbable.
Except Littlefinger doesn't decide to travel until word of Sansa Stark making it to the Castle Black reaches him.
Quote:
The reason so much time was spent on the Kingroad in Season 1 was that the show needed to acquaint a new audience with the time, place and characters. Did you really want another five-episode meander through the countryside with Brienne and Pod?
Yea, I only mentioned the Kingsroad bit to show how long it takes to travel via land. A line or two or a visual cue to show the passage of time would suffice. It's been done before.
The show makes it seem like Littlefinger showed up a week after Sansa did, especially since they just started planning their next course of action in the ensuring scene at Castle Black.
I expect more teleportation. After Euron builds 1000 ships with sailing crews, he'll need some way to magically appear in Meereen.
while watching is that we're never certain scenes are happening contemporaneously. To our eye, it seems they are, but it's probably not actually the case.
I think you have to just sort of accept that point and not focus to much on the travel times as different characters interact with each other.
the time scheme is a little distorted considering how fast Theon got to the Iron Islands, even given that story time and varying events tv time may not match up exactly. Not that Theon seems to be essential so far with respect to events on the Iron Islands. Further, given the relative locations of the Iron Islands and Meereen and that there seems to be no transcontinental waterway, it would seem like a lot of time will be needed to get get everyone in place. Figure building a thousand ships and sailing them around a continent to a completely different water body would normally take a year (likely more than one) (even longer than that if the builders are gov't workers). So, I think we all are going to have to agree to suspend some disbelief.
the people getting from one location to another is too unrealistic, what you are asking for is episode after episode of people traveling. That is the opposite of compelling TV and visual storytelling. So it is incumbent on us as viewers to accept that a change in location is accompanied by a passage of time.
Unless you really want scenes of people riding along a trail on horseback for mile after mile. This is like the Walking Dead threads where people say they want to see people scrounging for supplies. Sure, maybe it's compelling to see someone siphoning a a couple of Buicks for some people. But for most? Not so much...
Personally I don't think the story is being rushed. I think it is settling into a proper groove after being a little too deliberate before. Whether they were stalling for time for Martin to write or whatever, I think it's at a good pace now.
the people getting from one location to another is too unrealistic, what you are asking for is episode after episode of people traveling. That is the opposite of compelling TV and visual storytelling. So it is incumbent on us as viewers to accept that a change in location is accompanied by a passage of time.
Unless you really want scenes of people riding along a trail on horseback for mile after mile. This is like the Walking Dead threads where people say they want to see people scrounging for supplies. Sure, maybe it's compelling to see someone siphoning a a couple of Buicks for some people. But for most? Not so much...
That's true. I think that what [what] some people want though is to make sure that events make sense. Not showing the travel but that, where a person needs to be somewhere for a specific reason (e.g. showing up in the nick of time for a rescue) is logical given where they were starting from, if the when they were starting is known.
... and could travel openly during the day, Sansa, Brienne and Pod could probably reach Castle Black (6-700 miles north of Winterfell) in well under a month - say three weeks. In the meantime, Littlefinger has sailed up to Runestone to visit Royce and Robin, then continued up the coast - probably to near Eastwatch - and then inland to Mole's Town for their rendezvous. Considering the progress Arya and Bran have made in their training, and the density of developments in King's Landing and the Dothraki Sea, I don't think the pace of travel is that improbable.
Except Littlefinger doesn't decide to travel until word of Sansa Stark making it to the Castle Black reaches him.
I don't think they got word she was at Castle Black. He got word that she fled Winterfell and he suspected that she would head to Castle Black.
I don't think they got word she was at Castle Black. He got word that she fled Winterfell and he suspected that she would head to Castle Black.
Plus, Littlefinger could travel by sea up the east coast, roughly from the Vale ports to Eastwatch. He would figure to make very good time as long as the weather held up.
The more important logistical question is whether Royce has actually mobilized the Vale, and where the Knights are encamped. It would take a lot longer to march an army from Gulltown to Winterfell than it would for Baelish to sail up to Eastwatch and cross to Mole's Town.
I don't think Baelish will double-cross the Starks again. It's a much better twist at this point if he doesn't do anything devious.
I don't think they got word she was at Castle Black. He got word that she fled Winterfell and he suspected that she would head to Castle Black.
Plus, Littlefinger could travel by sea up the east coast, roughly from the Vale ports to Eastwatch. He would figure to make very good time as long as the weather held up.
The more important logistical question is whether Royce has actually mobilized the Vale, and where the Knights are encamped. It would take a lot longer to march an army from Gulltown to Winterfell than it would for Baelish to sail up to Eastwatch and cross to Mole's Town.
I don't think Baelish will double-cross the Starks again. It's a much better twist at this point if he doesn't do anything devious.
Littlefinger said he "rode north with the Knights of the Vale to come to your aid. They're encamped at Moat Cailin as we speak." So likely they rode north and took Moat Cailin and then perhaps he took a boat to east watch.
Littlefinger said he "rode north with the Knights of the Vale to come to your aid. They're encamped at Moat Cailin as we speak." So likely they rode north and took Moat Cailin and then perhaps he took a boat to east watch.
I forgot about that. Moat Cailin is about 500 miles from Winterfell - still quite a long way for a medieval army, but they've covered about half the distance and taken a key fort.
Assuming Littlefinger is telling the truth, taking Moat Cailin is a big deal. It was held by the Boltons and Freys, and was the prize that got Ramsay legitimized. If the Lords of the Vale have taken it from him, they are already committed to the war in the North. I guess they could simply stop and consolidate their gains, or head southwest and encircle the Freys at The Twins. Either way, they are in it.
There are other possibilities for what's going on at Moat Cailin... Â
1) Has the show really gone into depth about the children of the forest? No right? Just that they are part of the "original people" of the land? Why are they protecting/helping Bran?
2) The man who was stabbed and became the king white walker - do we know who he is, or is it speculation at this point?
3) The hodor thing was a bit confusing, but I guess it will get explained as the show goes along. Is bran "changing" the past? Or is the present and past linked, and occurring simultaneously? The fact that up into this point he has only said the word "hodor," means that Bran warging into him happened in the future..
The man stab is not the Night's King. The Night's King according to Old Nan's lore was rumored to be a Stark. People forget that the Others aren't just some zombies but also considered themselves to be of nobility. Bloodlines matter to them too.
My own theory all along has been the Night's King is looking for a heir that is a certain Stark before they march south for another 'Long Night'. Starks share the same mystic abilities. Bran is most adapt at it though.
Even in the show the first meeting of the Night's King, he was holding court. There is a purpose to their madness. I'm sure there is a bride waiting for Bran further up north.
Events in an episode are not always in the same timeline Â
In the past we've had scenes showing Dany do things on another continent but Varys would mention those items in Kings Landing minutes later that same episode.
Unless ravens or whispers can travel thousands of miles over bodies of water, we have so suspend that some time has passed between events to give proper time for Varys to receiving the information from another continent and relay those messages in Kings Landing....even though both scenes occurred in the same episode or the following one.
I think the travels this year with Sansa, Theon and Littlefinger follow this same assumption and scenes from the same episode are occurring at different times to account for the travel.
Speaking of Varys, no one has mentioned his scene from last night yet Â
I can't remember in the 6 seasons of this series anyone really besting Varys in a war of words like the Red Priestess did.
We finally found out why that sorcerer (Red Priest?) emasculated him, because he needed his body parts in a ritual for the Lord of the Light. Which helps explains his great disdain and bitter hatred for magic and its practitioners.
about Bran altering events with time travel in the show going forward.
Bran didn't alter the past in this episode. It's a casual loop. Wyllis was always going to become "Hodor" because Bran was always going to warg with Hodor and Meera telling him to "hold the door"
That's why it works that Hodor has been "Hodor" for the past four seasons despite Bran not going back in time until now.
--------------
Also, for those who were fans of LOST, this episode was directed by Jack Bender who directed "The Constant" among other episodes.
RE: Events in an episode are not always in the same timeline Â
In the past we've had scenes showing Dany do things on another continent but Varys would mention those items in Kings Landing minutes later that same episode.
Unless ravens or whispers can travel thousands of miles over bodies of water, we have so suspend that some time has passed between events to give proper time for Varys to receiving the information from another continent and relay those messages in Kings Landing....even though both scenes occurred in the same episode or the following one.
I think the travels this year with Sansa, Theon and Littlefinger follow this same assumption and scenes from the same episode are occurring at different times to account for the travel.
im okay with that. But then, you have to assume that Jon comes back alive then Sansa comes then little finger comes. Which means jons been twiddling his thumbs as a reanimated person for months so tat the times can match up. That seems odd.
RE: Speaking of Varys, no one has mentioned his scene from last night yet Â
I can't remember in the 6 seasons of this series anyone really besting Varys in a war of words like the Red Priestess did.
We finally found out why that sorcerer (Red Priest?) emasculated him, because he needed his body parts in a ritual for the Lord of the Light. Which helps explains his great disdain and bitter hatred for magic and its practitioners.
Really great scene!
Great point. I don't think we've ever seen Varys flustered once. That was some surprising shit
RE: RE: Events in an episode are not always in the same timeline Â
In the past we've had scenes showing Dany do things on another continent but Varys would mention those items in Kings Landing minutes later that same episode.
Unless ravens or whispers can travel thousands of miles over bodies of water, we have so suspend that some time has passed between events to give proper time for Varys to receiving the information from another continent and relay those messages in Kings Landing....even though both scenes occurred in the same episode or the following one.
I think the travels this year with Sansa, Theon and Littlefinger follow this same assumption and scenes from the same episode are occurring at different times to account for the travel.
im okay with that. But then, you have to assume that Jon comes back alive then Sansa comes then little finger comes. Which means jons been twiddling his thumbs as a reanimated person for months so tat the times can match up. That seems odd.
I thought about this last night and I think the real key is on how long it took from Theon and Sansa jumping the wall to reaching Jon at the wall. Let's say for this exercise, it takes 3-4 weeks to travel from Winterfell to the Wall.
Let's say for the fun of putting these timelines together, here is my theory....
1 month ago
- Battle between Bolton's army and Stannis's.
- Theon and Sansa jump the wall and travel north.
- Melisandre wasn't allowed to travel with Stannis into battle, so she was camped further north of Winderfell and the battlefields. Let's say once learning of Stannis's defeat, she traveled to the wall which takes her 3 weeks.
- Littlefinger gets word from one of his spies that Sansa has fled and makes his way to the Vale.
3 weeks ago
- Theon and Sansa are still on the run but Ramsey's men are closing in.
- Brienne saves them both and Sansa continues to go north with Brienne and Podrick to reunite with Jon.
- Theon at this time parts way with Sansa and heads off to the Iron Islands.
- Ramsey kills his father and takes over as the title of Warren of the North\Lord of Winterfell.
-Little Finger arrives at the Vale and convinces Robin to send his Vale army to protect his cousin Sansa.
1 week ago
- After Rooses death, different northan houses pledge allegence to Ramsey. Lord Umber offers Rickon Stark, Osha and Shaggy's head as gifts.
- Melisandre arrives at the Wall with news Stannis lost against the Boltons and her faith shaken
- That same night, Jon gets stabbed. His friends defend his body for a day from Alliser and the other traitors. Wildlings arrive that night to restore order. Davos convinces Melisandre to bring Jon back from the dead. Estimate Jon was dead for 3 days till he was bought back.
- Theon arrives at the Iron Islands and learns of his fathers recent death. He also gives his support to his sister Yara to succeed him as Queen.
- Littlefinger and the Vale army arrive at Moat Cailin where they take control and setup camp
Current
- Sansa, Brienne and Pod arrive at the wall, where she gets reunited with Jon....who himself has only been bought back to life a few days ago and still deciding where to leave too as he can't trust the Knights Watch after they killed him.
- Littlefinger gets the message to Sansa to meet at a location close between the wall and Moat Cailin.
- Jon and Sansa gets the message from Ramsey that he's holding Rickon as a prisoner and wants Sansa back.
- Week after their fathers death, the Iron Islands hold a kingsmoot to decide their new king. Yara makes a case and Theon gives her his support. Their uncle Euron arrives and convinces them to elect him as king and build him 1000 ships to bring Dany's army and dragons to Westros. Where the Iron born will then be able to plunder, loot and take revenge on all their enemies while Dany's army takes over all.
Roughly give or take some time here and there to accurately account for the distances traveled but that should be a solid timeline.....in my opinion. =)
I keep reading of people talking about this dude, and as far as I know, I've never heard of him. So, does this mean, the only people who know about some dude named Coldhands are ONLY people who have read the book?
Makes it hard to communicate about the show when people who have read the book chime in.
I keep reading of people talking about this dude, and as far as I know, I've never heard of him. So, does this mean, the only people who know about some dude named Coldhands are ONLY people who have read the book?
Makes it hard to communicate about the show when people who have read the book chime in.
Where are you seeing that name mentioned on this thread?
Now we get shit on for talking about stuff in the book thread? Â
I think Bran's ability to affect the past is very limited - faint whispers which seems to be what Ned heard at the TOJ.
Hodor seeing him is different imo because Bran was possessing him in the present so I think that is what connected the two times. As long as Bran doesn't Warg anyone and then see them in the past, his influence will be limited to whispers. At least, that's how I read it.
and by "read it", I mean interpret the show. Not anything I read in a book so calm down everyone.
I'm sure I'm not alone here, but if she didn't want to take Little fingers offer of his army, then she should have had Brienne off his head for what he did to her.
that's why Little Finger so confidently was able to say that he'd be willing to die if that's what she wanted - he understands that it's not in her nature to be that ruthless, even after what she's been through.
I found it interesting how Little Finger planted that seed in Sansa's head about finding people who are loyal to her - making sure to emphasize that Jon Snow is only a half brother. Sounds like he's angling to have Sansa turn on Jon Snow at some point - perhaps after Bolton's army is defeated.
One final thought for the night.....
It seems to me now there are only 3 WWs left, and it seems pretty easy to kill them with that special sword.
Sooooooo, why not kill those 3? chances are the walking dead that follow them will return to the earth. Problem solved! Agree or not?
most cogent post of the day (not sure which thread) was why not use all the dragon glass lances on the WW in the cave. Surely the children of the corn knew their vulnerabilities considering that they made them and all. All the co ponents were in place to end the series last night.
Well, damn. I said on the last thread that I wanted there to be a twist with Hodor since everything was pointing to "kicked by horse".
Never expected that to be the twist. Heartbreaking and powerful. One of the better final scenes in this shows history imo, although there are a lot to choose from.
Felt like a slow set-up episode then boom, great ending. This show is just on fire right now as far as I'm concerned.
The sexy new red priestess vs. Varys was a cool scene. We've seen Varys look shook before, but never like that.
Tormund stole the episode without saying a word. His interactions with Brienne have been fun to watch.
although maybe there is more to it than I think... but superficially, that's a lot of effort and life-changing to end up merely blocking a door that he likely would have blocked regardless. Yeah I get that it's the last thing he will likely ever do, but my first thought on the reveal was "that's it???".
RE: I actually was disappointed in the Hodor reveal Â
although maybe there is more to it than I think... but superficially, that's a lot of effort and life-changing to end up merely blocking a door that he likely would have blocked regardless. Yeah I get that it's the last thing he will likely ever do, but my first thought on the reveal was "that's it???".
I disagree very strongly. They have shown over and over and over across 6 seasons that Hodor is paralyzed by fear in dangerous situations. Can't contain his panic. He wouldn't just block the door for the hell of it. He wouldn't think "Hey I know, I'll go save Bran!"
...has been ignominious deaths for noble characters. Hodor is one of the few to die nobly, joining other humble players like Syrio, Yoren and Jojen, who also gave their lives protecting a wolf pup. Tying the end to his one-word vocabulary was a bittersweet bonus. I give Hodor's death a big thumbs-up, although the zombie apocalypse aspect is a bit cheesy.
was great. And yea, that version of Sansa was tremendous.
Sam, Jon Snow, Meera... are those the only ones to kill a Wight at this point? What a trio. The savior of the realm + a chubby loser and a middle school aged girl.
One last point on Hodor. I liked how Lyanna was nice to him. That "flashback" scene was mostly about Hodor, but Lyanna's presence was the next most important thing. Benjen after that.
So are a lot of 'tween girls. If Thomas Brodie-Sangster hadn't bought the farm outside that cave, I might have been able to get my daughters to watch the show with me. They've been monitoring his career with keen interest since Love Actually and Nanny McPhee.
If Bran didn't climb maybe everyone in his family is alive. He sucks.
Nope Ned Was still going to Kings Landing to be the Kings Hand.
Still would find out about Jon Ayrins murder. Same fate only Bran would lose his head too.
I think it's a fair assumption that there's more to Meera than meets the eye, especially considering her father was the one who saved Ned's life.
The Spoiler Police have their tasers charged and ready.
I'm content to think of Meera as the Bad-Ass Chick North of the Wall. Girl Power seems to be the over-arching theme of Season Six, with powerful women asserting themselves all over the map. Why should the Land of Always Winter be an exception?
RE: I think it's a fair assumption that there's more to Meera than meets Â
...has been ignominious deaths for noble characters. Hodor is one of the few to die nobly, joining other humble players like Syrio, Yoren and Jojen, who also gave their lives protecting a wolf pup. Tying the end to his one-word vocabulary was a bittersweet bonus. I give Hodor's death a big thumbs-up, although the zombie apocalypse aspect is a bit cheesy.
I never saw Syrio die. I choose to believe he made it out, maybe hanging with the Hound and Gendry.
...has been ignominious deaths for noble characters. Hodor is one of the few to die nobly, joining other humble players like Syrio, Yoren and Jojen, who also gave their lives protecting a wolf pup. Tying the end to his one-word vocabulary was a bittersweet bonus. I give Hodor's death a big thumbs-up, although the zombie apocalypse aspect is a bit cheesy.
I never saw Syrio die. I choose to believe he made it out, maybe hanging with the Hound and Gendry.
Anyone else think the timeline below is close to what's occurring in the story-line? Toughest thing to match-up was when Jon was killed in comparison on when Stannis and Bolton armies went to battle.
Quote:
Let's say for the fun of putting these timelines together, here is my theory....
1 month ago
- Battle between Bolton's army and Stannis's.
- Theon and Sansa jump the wall and travel north.
- Melisandre wasn't allowed to travel with Stannis into battle, so she was camped further north of Winderfell and the battlefields. Let's say once learning of Stannis's defeat, she traveled to the wall which takes her 3 weeks.
- Littlefinger gets word from one of his spies that Sansa has fled and makes his way to the Vale.
3 weeks ago
- Theon and Sansa are still on the run but Ramsey's men are closing in.
- Brienne saves them both and Sansa continues to go north with Brienne and Podrick to reunite with Jon.
- Theon at this time parts way with Sansa and heads off to the Iron Islands.
- Ramsey kills his father and takes over as the title of Warren of the North\Lord of Winterfell.
-Little Finger arrives at the Vale and convinces Robin to send his Vale army to protect his cousin Sansa.
1 week ago
- After Rooses death, different northan houses pledge allegence to Ramsey. Lord Umber offers Rickon Stark, Osha and Shaggy's head as gifts.
- Melisandre arrives at the Wall with news Stannis lost against the Boltons and her faith shaken
- That same night, Jon gets stabbed. His friends defend his body for a day from Alliser and the other traitors. Wildlings arrive that night to restore order. Davos convinces Melisandre to bring Jon back from the dead. Estimate Jon was dead for 3 days till he was bought back.
- Theon arrives at the Iron Islands and learns of his fathers recent death. He also gives his support to his sister Yara to succeed him as Queen.
- Littlefinger and the Vale army arrive at Moat Cailin where they take control and setup camp
Current
- Sansa, Brienne and Pod arrive at the wall, where she gets reunited with Jon....who himself has only been bought back to life a few days ago and still deciding where to leave too as he can't trust the Knights Watch after they killed him.
- Littlefinger gets the message to Sansa to meet at a location close between the wall and Moat Cailin.
- Jon and Sansa gets the message from Ramsey that he's holding Rickon as a prisoner and wants Sansa back.
- Week after their fathers death, the Iron Islands hold a kingsmoot to decide their new king. Yara makes a case and Theon gives her his support. Their uncle Euron arrives and convinces them to elect him as king and build him 1000 ships to bring Dany's army and dragons to Westros. Where the Iron born will then be able to plunder, loot and take revenge on all their enemies while Dany's army takes over all.
Roughly give or take some time here and there to accurately account for the distances traveled but that should be a solid timeline.....in my opinion. =)
...has been ignominious deaths for noble characters. Hodor is one of the few to die nobly, joining other humble players like Syrio, Yoren and Jojen, who also gave their lives protecting a wolf pup. Tying the end to his one-word vocabulary was a bittersweet bonus. I give Hodor's death a big thumbs-up, although the zombie apocalypse aspect is a bit cheesy.
Don't forget Sir Barristan and Gren (that dude held the gate against a friggen Giant) Plus that wildling lady at Hardhome who refused to get in a boat when the attack started.
RE: RE: One of the hallmarks of A Song of Ice and Fire... Â
...has been ignominious deaths for noble characters. Hodor is one of the few to die nobly, joining other humble players like Syrio, Yoren and Jojen, who also gave their lives protecting a wolf pup. Tying the end to his one-word vocabulary was a bittersweet bonus. I give Hodor's death a big thumbs-up, although the zombie apocalypse aspect is a bit cheesy.
Don't forget Sir Barristan and Gren (that dude held the gate against a friggen Giant) Plus that wildling lady at Hardhome who refused to get in a boat when the attack started.
Never mind. I probably should have actually read the post before replying. :/
My guess is he ends up looking for a cure in the place that Sam is heading, since its where the the largest library is and is where all the maesters study.
That could set up an interesting information exchange between he and Sam. Sam knows of Shireen's cured greyscale. Plus, you know, all the White Walker stuff that could interest Danaerys.
Or he could just die along the way and we never hear from him again.
My guess is he ends up looking for a cure in the place that Sam is heading, since its where the the largest library is and is where all the maesters study.
That could set up an interesting information exchange between he and Sam. Sam knows of Shireen's cured greyscale. Plus, you know, all the White Walker stuff that could interest Danaerys.
Or he could just die along the way and we never hear from him again.
Sam is going to Old Town which is still in Westeros. Jorah would have to cross the sea to link of with Sam. I guess its possible, but the travel alone would likely take too long and would die from the greyscale. Who knows though.
My guess is he ends up looking for a cure in the place that Sam is heading, since its where the the largest library is and is where all the maesters study.
That could set up an interesting information exchange between he and Sam. Sam knows of Shireen's cured greyscale. Plus, you know, all the White Walker stuff that could interest Danaerys.
Or he could just die along the way and we never hear from him again.
Sam is going to Old Town which is still in Westeros. Jorah would have to cross the sea to link of with Sam. I guess its possible, but the travel alone would likely take too long and would die from the greyscale. Who knows though.
So what your saying is, he'll get there next episode?
He was there when the Three Eyed Raven died (killed by the White walkers)in the tree. Touching the Warewood tree was his conection to the Raven and the warging seeing though the trees and learning the past.
. Thats why Hodor as Willis saw him in the past. Then Bran Wargs into both Hodors establishing a link to the future and him Holding the Door.
When we see Bran he is still in Warg stag and had to be dragged away. Hodor Dies so Bran feels that and is still stuck in the past. One Hodor dies the other goes conniptions fit.
Bran is still in the past and the only way he has left to get back to this time is to warg into someone from that time that is still around? This is Where Benjen Stark comes into play. Its Brans only way back. Benjen has to reappear or Bran is fucked.
None of this is in the books just me thinking out loud.
Or perhaps he just hangs out as a ghost until later on in his (time ghost) life and then contacts his younger (non-time ghost) self. THREE EYED RAVEN = BRAN STUCK IN TIME.
didn't burn the fleet at Mereen after all. From the little I know about this Euron character that seems like the kind of thing he would try to pull off. If he knew Dany was in Mereen, he had to of known she already had access to a fleet of ships. Plus he conveniently shows up at Pike to make his power play shortly after Dany's fleet burns.
Also, if Yara is going to try and steal Euron's plan, cause what else is she going to do?, I bet Danaerys will be more trusting to a powerful female ship captain than and arrogant man trying to force negotiations with her.
Is it possible that the Night's King is a Stark (possibly that first white walker shown created this week). Then as a Stark, has the ability to warg like Bran and Three Eyed Raven had?
Maybe this is why the Night's King was able to see Bran in his vision, because he has that same ability. Plus it would explain how on a more powerful amped up level, he can warg the dead. Kill the Night's King and the undead army goes down.
Plus if the Night's King has that same ability as 3ERaven and Bran to see the past and future, maybe that's why he want Bran so badly. He knows how powerful Bran is and if he can covert him into a White Walker, his army would be almost unstoppable in the coming war down south.
didn't burn the fleet at Mereen after all. From the little I know about this Euron character that seems like the kind of thing he would try to pull off. If he knew Dany was in Mereen, he had to of known she already had access to a fleet of ships. Plus he conveniently shows up at Pike to make his power play shortly after Dany's fleet burns.
Also, if Yara is going to try and steal Euron's plan, cause what else is she going to do?, I bet Danaerys will be more trusting to a powerful female ship captain than and arrogant man trying to force negotiations with her.
I think it makes sense that the Harpies were not responsible for burning the fleet as they just want her to leave. It's counterproductive. Not sure I buy Euron being behind it though. But its a good theory.
Is it possible that the Night's King is a Stark (possibly that first white walker shown created this week). Then as a Stark, has the ability to warg like Bran and Three Eyed Raven had?
Maybe this is why the Night's King was able to see Bran in his vision, because he has that same ability. Plus it would explain how on a more powerful amped up level, he can warg the dead. Kill the Night's King and the undead army goes down.
Plus if the Night's King has that same ability as 3ERaven and Bran to see the past and future, maybe that's why he want Bran so badly. He knows how powerful Bran is and if he can covert him into a White Walker, his army would be almost unstoppable in the coming war down south.
I posted a similar theory over on the book thread. But if raising the dead really is just the WW warging into corpses perhaps that's something Bran could key into.
About the murder of Joffery from Loris? They beat him down I wouldn't be surprised if he tells them. He and Margery are very close I would imagine she told him. With the Tyrell Army in town it could mean a coup and overthrow of the Lanisters. The Sparow and Queen of Thorns is quite a paring. Or Cersi knows though Tommen talking to the King and we are going to have a big double cross. We have no idea where the Lanister Army is.
About the murder of Joffery from Loris? They beat him down I wouldn't be surprised if he tells them. He and Margery are very close I would imagine she told him. With the Tyrell Army in town it could mean a coup and overthrow of the Lanisters. The Sparow and Queen of Thorns is quite a paring. Or Cersi knows though Tommen talking to the King and we are going to have a big double cross. We have no idea where the Lanister Army is.
I suppose Kevan is leading the Lannister Army, not Cersei
weird linking of the first WW to an existing character or bloodline. Just makes things to far out there and would make everything else going on so unimportant.
Just make the guy a JAG, and move the focus of the show back to Kings Landing and Dany's trek back to Westeros. The Wall stuff is cool, but it also has the potential to just be too SciFi and ruin the other story lines.
weird linking of the first WW to an existing character or bloodline. Just makes things to far out there and would make everything else going on so unimportant.
Just make the guy a JAG, and move the focus of the show back to Kings Landing and Dany's trek back to Westeros. The Wall stuff is cool, but it also has the potential to just be too SciFi and ruin the other story lines.
Why in the world would the Night's King be JAG? What a pointless villain that would make. I'd be shocked if it wasn't Stark related.
I generally like your feedback and opinions on things but you always give off this sense like if a show or movie goes in direction a, b, c it'll be ruined for you. Keep an open mind, cause the show is definitely going further into magical, spiritual and "sci-fi" places.
Why would TNK's ability to warg suggest that he is a Stark?
Not a book reader myself but it's been mentioned on these "non-spoiler" threads before that Jon Snow always wargs into Ghost mostly when he's sleeping, so he really doesn't know he has that ability. Not sure if any other Stark kids in the books exhibited this ability or not.
Other people have shown the ability to warg but not to the level Starks like Bran, 3ERaven (future Bran?) or even the NK who might be a bloodline from the Starks ancestors.
Is it possible that the Night's King is a Stark (possibly that first white walker shown created this week). Then as a Stark, has the ability to warg like Bran and Three Eyed Raven had?
Maybe this is why the Night's King was able to see Bran in his vision, because he has that same ability. Plus it would explain how on a more powerful amped up level, he can warg the dead. Kill the Night's King and the undead army goes down.
Plus if the Night's King has that same ability as 3ERaven and Bran to see the past and future, maybe that's why he want Bran so badly. He knows how powerful Bran is and if he can covert him into a White Walker, his army would be almost unstoppable in the coming war down south.
I posted a similar theory over on the book thread. But if raising the dead really is just the WW warging into corpses perhaps that's something Bran could key into.
That'd be cool Peter. Everyone guesses in the end Bran will warg into one of the dragons, I think that's too easy and Bran has a bigger fate to the end story-line. I think the final battle Bran will go toe to toe with the Night's King waring corpses to battle each other.
Which in turn gives the other players in this game a fighting chance with the Dragons with Dany, Tyrion and Jon each riding one dragon apiece.
Why would TNK's ability to warg suggest that he is a Stark?
Not a book reader myself but it's been mentioned on these "non-spoiler" threads before that Jon Snow always wargs into Ghost mostly when he's sleeping, so he really doesn't know he has that ability. Not sure if any other Stark kids in the books exhibited this ability or not.
Other people have shown the ability to warg but not to the level Starks like Bran, 3ERaven (future Bran?) or even the NK who might be a bloodline from the Starks ancestors.
How do we know the wildling who warged (Orell) doesn't do it to the level of Bran?
Also, while it may have been mentioned in these threads, has there been any reference in any of the shows that Jon Snow wargs into Ghost? I can't recall anything close to that happening, so it's disappointing to see people discuss that on this thread.
The only wargs we have seen in the show are Orell, Bran, and a Thenn.
There are a million theories out there and some are bound to have correct guesses, but I just don't see anything to suggest that the Night King potentially being able to warg (not even definite) suggests that he is a Stark
other "Others" look exactly the same? Long white hair + beard look. Yet the Night's King has a very different look to him, even beyond the ice crown.
Also, do you guys think we're completely done with "The Children"? That one lead Children-girl helping Meera was still alive after being stabbed dozens of times. It looked like a suicide bomb that she set off, but maybe she's immortal?
The Children are the ones who created the White Walkers, and now we're done with them? Doesn't seem right.
Why would TNK's ability to warg suggest that he is a Stark?
There are a million theories out there and some are bound to have correct guesses, but I just don't see anything to suggest that the Night King potentially being able to warg (not even definite) suggests that he is a Stark
Dude he saw and touched Bran when he was in the past. That's more than just seeing through animals. That's on the 3eravens level.
warg- the ability to enter the minds of animals and control the animals with their POV.
greensight: psychic ability to have visions of the past or future while in a dream state.
Bran is special in that he has both abilities.
The Night King has a lot of different abilities that we already know about, but that the Night King saw Bran and touched in Bran's vision doesn't mean that he is a warg, nor that he has greensight.
Above all, it certainly doesn't suggest in any way that he is a Stark.
he is The Night King and clearly has powers (he can raise turn babies into wights by touching them, he can cause earthquakes of sorts, he can raise an army of wights by picking up his arms, he can shatter weapons, etc.).
Maybe he's a warg. Maybe he has greensight. We don't know that, though. Also, we have no reason to think the Three Eyed Raven is a Stark, either.
is airing this weekend. Usually GoT doesn't air new on memorial day weekend (at least from my recollection), but they've changed the practice this year. Nice!
weird linking of the first WW to an existing character or bloodline. Just makes things to far out there and would make everything else going on so unimportant.
Just make the guy a JAG, and move the focus of the show back to Kings Landing and Dany's trek back to Westeros. The Wall stuff is cool, but it also has the potential to just be too SciFi and ruin the other story lines.
Why in the world would the Night's King be JAG? What a pointless villain that would make. I'd be shocked if it wasn't Stark related.
I generally like your feedback and opinions on things but you always give off this sense like if a show or movie goes in direction a, b, c it'll be ruined for you. Keep an open mind, cause the show is definitely going further into magical, spiritual and "sci-fi" places.
Maybe JAG is a bit extreme but I really hope it isn't a current Stark that's alive. Stark ancestor, fine, I can live with that.
I'm completely open minded, i've read every book and enjoy them immensely. I'm hoping the rest of the story doesn't dive completely off the cliffs I guess.
Questions about Bran, 3ERaven and the Night's King Â
We know while 3ERaven and Bran were in that magical tree, they were warded and magically protected from the Night's King knowing where they were located. The Night's King only found out their location by touched Bran during one of his visions.
Question, at the end of Season 4, when Bran was first seeking the 3ERaven, before they entered the tree they had to get past a mine field of zombies. Who put those zombies there? Did the Night's King always know of the location and placed his un-dead soldiers at the base of the three to prevent 3ERaven from ever getting assistance from the outside?
Plus if those zombies at the base of the tree in season 4 were place there by the Night's King, wouldn't he already know where Bran was by controlling and re-animating those zombies there? The minute Bran stepped into that tree and was magically protected, the Night's King should have known and camped close by waiting for an opening to get to them.
Unless the Night's King can also greensight (visions of past and future) and had already seen in a vision that Bran would make that mistake and get marked, which would explain why they got there so fast and were waiting for them.
especially sitting outside the current power structure, looking in.
I suspect that the Sparrow told Tommen about his brother (extracted through Loras), he told his mother (which the Sparrow knew he would), and tempered with Jaime's patience versus her impetuousness this is a 'get the Tyrells killed' planned double cross.
especially sitting outside the current power structure, looking in.
I suspect that the Sparrow told Tommen about his brother (extracted through Loras), he told his mother (which the Sparrow knew he would), and tempered with Jaime's patience versus her impetuousness this is a 'get the Tyrells killed' planned double cross.
Children of the Forest created the White Walkers and then they turned on them?
And how about the recent trend of Sansa becoming the biggest badass in the family while Jon broods and mopes. Time for him to nut up again
So week after week we get told to make a no spoiler thread and then we get called stupid when we do? Got it. There's a thread a few spots down for you to play in.
Quote:
no spoilers?
So week after week we get told to make a no spoiler thread and then we get called stupid when we do? Got it. There's a thread a few spots down for you to play in.
You mean no Book Spoilers
Not Episode spoilers for those who haven't seen it.
Quote:
In comment 12967282 Shadow said:
Quote:
no spoilers?
So week after week we get told to make a no spoiler thread and then we get called stupid when we do? Got it. There's a thread a few spots down for you to play in.
You mean no Book Spoilers
Not Episode spoilers for those who haven't seen it.
He obviously means no book spoilers OR spoilers based on speculation by book readers about plot details not introduced on the show. This is discussed weekly.
I found the Iron Islands storyline kind of boring. Balon's brother was just kind of introduced from out of nowhere, kills Balon, just shows up in the middle of the "election" and then Theon and his sister flee with a ton of ships during the coronation ceremony?
Is there a cure for greyscale or not? Dany's command to "find a cure" outweighs Jorah's survival motivation?
The Children throwing thermal detonators? Hodor getting his "name" by being warged by Bran in two time periods at once? I think the final scene was trying to live up to Hardhomme. But it didn't for me.
I don't know. Maybe I need to digest the episode and hear other fans' thoughts. But even some of the lines, like the priestess referring to Dany "crucifying the Masters for their sins," just seemed a bit lazy and un-GoT like.
Still a great show, though. Already looking forward to next week.
It all leaves me wondering how much Sansa really has (or hasn't) changed from the spoiled, Jon hating brat of a child she was. Or I'm completely wrong and it's for some selfless reason, perhaps something to protect Jon? Totally lost on that but very interested...
I have a feeling he's lying though and if that's the case Brianne might be going to her death.
She's tough, but her strategic thinking might be a little cloudy. When you're offered the Knights of the Vale, you take them. Can't trust Littlefinger? No problem: take his ass hostage and have your loyal Queensguard kill him at the first sign of betrayal.
Is that why she lied to Jon about meeting with Littlefinger? She didn't want to tell him she had just blown off the help of the biggest, best army north of the Trident on principle?
It all leaves me wondering how much Sansa really has (or hasn't) changed from the spoiled, Jon hating brat of a child she was. Or I'm completely wrong and it's for some selfless reason, perhaps something to protect Jon? Totally lost on that but very interested...
"So...turns out they're all set here. Let's head back to the Vale now. Anybody want to stop for ice cream on the way home?"
-Littlefinger
No they already said who he was. He's not Bran. The old man was the crow though that was coming to him in his dreams earlier.
Ramsey's child is in her.
Only part I didn't like though. Awesome episode.
Ramsey's child is in her.
Ahhh, very good. Gotta be honest, wasn't sure how long ago it as and I thought she was just implying that he was really rough with her. A pregnancy never occurred to me.
Know what I think she should do? Take care of it. I won't say it for all the little baby ears in here, but it rhymes with "shmashmortion". I'm just saying, she should go to Mole Town and get a shmashmortion at the shmashmortion clinic.
One thing that I never understood (or perhaps failed to pick up on) -- way back when Arya first encounters Jaqen Haegar (yes, I'm sure my spelling is all fucked up), what is he in captivity for? Did he commit a crime? Or are we supposed to assume he put himself there via faceless man skills to make her acquaintance?
Quote:
Listen to what she told little finger. She still feels it?
Ramsey's child is in her.
Ahhh, very good. Gotta be honest, wasn't sure how long ago it as and I thought she was just implying that he was really rough with her. A pregnancy never occurred to me.
Know what I think she should do? Take care of it. I won't say it for all the little baby ears in here, but it rhymes with "shmashmortion". I'm just saying, she should go to Mole Town and get a shmashmortion at the shmashmortion clinic.
My interpretation was that the writers chose the language to lead speculation that she's pregnant, but that Sansa the character doesn't know she is. She just things she feels all fucked up and broken from being abused and raped.
One thing that I never understood (or perhaps failed to pick up on) -- way back when Arya first encounters Jaqen Haegar (yes, I'm sure my spelling is all fucked up), what is he in captivity for? Did he commit a crime? Or are we supposed to assume he put himself there via faceless man skills to make her acquaintance?
Yeah, I'm pretty lost about the Faceless Men. How can you claim to be doing a Gods will when anyone can come to you and pay you to off someone, for as simple a (perceived) slight as someone being a better actor? Not only is that petty and counterintuitive to how "important" their work is, but that entire 8-10 minute scene with the play was an absolute waste of time compared to the rest of the episode.
As for Jaqen, I have to think he allowed himself to be caught. He wouldn't be very good at what he does if he ended up in a dungeon, and the worst of dungeons at that.
2) The man who was stabbed and became the king white walker - do we know who he is, or is it speculation at this point?
3) The hodor thing was a bit confusing, but I guess it will get explained as the show goes along. Is bran "changing" the past? Or is the present and past linked, and occurring simultaneously? The fact that up into this point he has only said the word "hodor," means that Bran warging into him happened in the future..
[quote] 1) Has the show really gone into depth about the children of the forest? No right? Just that they are part of the "original people" of the land? Why are they protecting/helping Bran?
2) The man who was stabbed and became the king white walker - do we know who he is, or is it speculation at this point?
3) The hodor thing was a bit confusing, but I guess it will get explained as the show goes along. Is bran "changing" the past? Or is the present and past linked, and occurring simultaneously? The fact that up into this point he has only said the word "hodor," means that Bran warging into him happened in the future.. [/quote
1) The show has not gone into depth about the background of the children other than to say they were the first inhabitants of Westeros before man arrived from Essos. I believe they help/serve the Three Eyed a Raven/Bran because they share the greensight as well as the old gods and have similar aims.
2) no indication has been given as to the identity of the first white walker. It could just be someone they took captive during the war. Or you could rationalize that it had to be someone important/powerful to become such a powerful being. Will either know shortly and it will be explained or we never hear of it again and will know it's a relevant.
3) Time is a flat circl...ahhh shit, wrong show...
So Theon just went, say, from halfway to the wall from Winterfell to Pyke in an episode? Littlefinger takes a leisurely stroll from the Eyrie to Mole Town (near Castle Black)?
Didn't it take months for King Robert to travel from King's Landing to Winterfell? Has Sansa been holed up at Castle Black that long? If so, it took them that long to realize they're outnumbered and need to go raise troops?
GoT and the GMEN! - ( New Window )
This has been known for years.
Yes, it's widely reported. The giant who was at Hardhomme and who helped save Jon's friends a few episodes at Castle Black is named Wun Wun, in honor of Phil Simms (who wore #11).
So Theon just went, say, from halfway to the wall from Winterfell to Pyke in an episode? Littlefinger takes a leisurely stroll from the Eyrie to Mole Town (near Castle Black)?
Didn't it take months for King Robert to travel from King's Landing to Winterfell? Has Sansa been holed up at Castle Black that long? If so, it took them that long to realize they're outnumbered and need to go raise troops?
I noticed how fast people seem to be moving now too. I think it too months for Robert to move with a full court. Carts of supplies, people on foot etc.
The other thing to consider is that we have no idea how fast their ships are. 19th century clipper ships could do 400-500 miles a day.
So here's my speculation on Hodor becoming a simpleton: Bran being a warg- allows him to enter the mind of simple creatures: birds, dire wolves, etc. Entering into Hodor’s mind to control him in the present was fine because it was not more complex that warging into a bird or a wolf (and hopefully someday a dragon). But did entering into the mind of someone with normal abilities as Bran did to Hodor in the past drive Hodor from being the normal, kind stable boy to a simpleton? Of course this event is looped in time.
Anyway I for one loved the use of the present linked to the past.
The episode was full of some pretty good moments, capped off with the Hodor/time reveal, but I really hope the story doesn't start revolving around altering time.
The episode was full of some pretty good moments, capped off with the Hodor/time reveal, but I really hope the story doesn't start revolving around altering time.
I agree, I'm fine as a one off thing. But it adds another layer of complexity to an already complex show if it's going to be recurring.
Also, what value does knowing the Children of the Forest creating the White Walkers add? Is there something more to that?
And fuck Bran.
It's like having a big epic end with "it was all a dream!"
Cmon maaaaan.
Minor annoyance of mine is the sudden rates of travel. People are getting around much more quickly.
Minor annoyance of mine is the sudden rates of travel. People are getting around much more quickly.
You answered your own question. The rates of travel alone shows me things are being sped up because it all needs to fit; why else do it? We used to have subplots during someone's journey from Winterfell to the Wall, and that just hasn't happened much, if at all this season.
I don't know why people get offended or need some info on others thinking the show is being rushed.
Just saw ten minutes of a Shakespearean play, Jorah leaving for the 3rd time, another Red Lady making a speech, Jon doing nothing but finally mounting his horse, etc.
The reason so much time was spent on the Kingroad in Season 1 was that the show needed to acquaint a new audience with the time, place and characters. Did you really want another five-episode meander through the countryside with Brienne and Pod?
The story is best with pinches of supernatural fantasy here and there with a consistent focus on the strengths and flaws of human character, especially in positions of power. I'm not digging these Children of the Forest. They look lame, act lame, and (so far) serve a lame purpose in the storyline.
What were the rules of the smoke baby that killed Renly? I'd argue that was an infinitely larger crock of horseshit than this. That was the only way Stannis could defeat Renly.
Just saw ten minutes of a Shakespearean play, Jorah leaving for the 3rd time, another Red Lady making a speech, Jon doing nothing but finally mounting his horse, etc.
Well its based on plenty, but this is a no spoilers thread. Not sure what to tell you, i think its being rushed, why do you even care?
Quote:
Nothing's changed with the source content, and the length of the series is the same( unlike Rome, who had to condense the 2nd and 3rd season into one).
Just saw ten minutes of a Shakespearean play, Jorah leaving for the 3rd time, another Red Lady making a speech, Jon doing nothing but finally mounting his horse, etc.
Well its based on plenty, but this is a no spoilers thread. Not sure what to tell you, i think its being rushed, why do you even care?
You keep stating it for a fact, don't understand why. It could've been outlined seven years ago exactly as it's unfolding now.
Some plotlines are being ridiculously sped through. You can make an argument that its because it only needs 2-5 minutes to get the point across, or you can argue that its just to move the story along.
As for the show, i'm most interested in what Littlefinger does. After barely being on it, and now being thrown back into it with what I thought was a neutering by Sansa, I hope he backstabs her since she should have killed him. She left an opening and I hope he takes it. His little screen time needs to be beefed up. The way he delivered the news of Riverrun and Jon being her "Half Brother" was kinda weak. I'm ithing for an epic scene with him.
I'm also interested in what Theon/Asha will be doing with the Iron Fleet. Race to Mereen perhaps? Or will the go north and try to take the north?
I would be surprised and very disappointed if the writers decide to wrap up the story lines by time traveling back to say: stop the white walkers from being created or stop Ned Stark from being executed or stop the Red wedding….etc.
I trust they know that once is a clever cinematic devise, twice is a cheap trick and beneath the quality of GoT.
Maybe they're just skipping the travelling itself. Tyrion had mentioned weeks had past since their meeting with the masters.
And any guesses to how long it takes the 47 citizens of Pyke to build 1,000 ships? My guess is by episode 8, and somehow, they will also catch up to Theon.
Some plotlines are being ridiculously sped through. You can make an argument that its because it only needs 2-5 minutes to get the point across, or you can argue that its just to move the story along.
So why should I care what you think? You're the one beating the same sad story every week. I could use your same rationale in reverse. I've given you direct quotes from the writers saying the original intention was to have seven television seasons to match seven books. We know for a almost certainty that after season 6 is over we are likely getting 14-15 episodes instead of 10. For the idiots at home, that means we are getting MORE.
You dont agree? GREAT. For the rest of us that love this season, and feel the pace is fantastic, we dont need you berating the same crap week after week.
And any guesses to how long it takes the 47 citizens of Pyke to build 1,000 ships? My guess is by episode 8, and somehow, they will also catch up to Theon.
Quote:
this entire thread is people's opinion, why is this any different? Multiple people I work with think the same as me(especially after this most recent episode aired, some non book readers) and others don't, they don't jump at my throat asking me to prove my point, so I don't see why its being done now.
Some plotlines are being ridiculously sped through. You can make an argument that its because it only needs 2-5 minutes to get the point across, or you can argue that its just to move the story along.
So why should I care what you think? You're the one beating the same sad story every week. I could use your same rationale in reverse. I've given you direct quotes from the writers saying the original intention was to have seven television seasons to match seven books. We know for a almost certainty that after season 6 is over we are likely getting 14-15 episodes instead of 10. For the idiots at home, that means we are getting MORE.
You dont agree? GREAT. For the rest of us that love this season, and feel the pace is fantastic, we dont need you berating the same crap week after week.
Perfect, and feel free to ignore me, or start a non-UConn4523 thread, either works for me.
Me thinking the story is rushed is no different than thinking Jon kills Ramsay, or Sansa is pregnant, or really anything else. The only difference is you are taking it as a slight against a show you think has little or no flaws at all.
IMO, if I'm allowed to still have one, this show was at its very peak when the pieces were being set and the game's moves were being made. With the end in sight we are getting less of the game which is naturally going to happen, but for me, its not as compelling.
Except Littlefinger doesn't decide to travel until word of Sansa Stark making it to the Castle Black reaches him.
The reason so much time was spent on the Kingroad in Season 1 was that the show needed to acquaint a new audience with the time, place and characters. Did you really want another five-episode meander through the countryside with Brienne and Pod?
Yea, I only mentioned the Kingsroad bit to show how long it takes to travel via land. A line or two or a visual cue to show the passage of time would suffice. It's been done before.
The show makes it seem like Littlefinger showed up a week after Sansa did, especially since they just started planning their next course of action in the ensuring scene at Castle Black.
I expect more teleportation. After Euron builds 1000 ships with sailing crews, he'll need some way to magically appear in Meereen.
I think you have to just sort of accept that point and not focus to much on the travel times as different characters interact with each other.
You keep saying they're accelerating the pacing to fit in the story, as though they're cancelling episodes and compacting the timeline.
And your disappointment in book Littlefinger vs HBO's portrayal seems a bit out of place.
Unless you really want scenes of people riding along a trail on horseback for mile after mile. This is like the Walking Dead threads where people say they want to see people scrounging for supplies. Sure, maybe it's compelling to see someone siphoning a a couple of Buicks for some people. But for most? Not so much...
Personally I don't think the story is being rushed. I think it is settling into a proper groove after being a little too deliberate before. Whether they were stalling for time for Martin to write or whatever, I think it's at a good pace now.
Unless you really want scenes of people riding along a trail on horseback for mile after mile. This is like the Walking Dead threads where people say they want to see people scrounging for supplies. Sure, maybe it's compelling to see someone siphoning a a couple of Buicks for some people. But for most? Not so much...
I agree, I think the pacing is great.
Quote:
... and could travel openly during the day, Sansa, Brienne and Pod could probably reach Castle Black (6-700 miles north of Winterfell) in well under a month - say three weeks. In the meantime, Littlefinger has sailed up to Runestone to visit Royce and Robin, then continued up the coast - probably to near Eastwatch - and then inland to Mole's Town for their rendezvous. Considering the progress Arya and Bran have made in their training, and the density of developments in King's Landing and the Dothraki Sea, I don't think the pace of travel is that improbable.
Except Littlefinger doesn't decide to travel until word of Sansa Stark making it to the Castle Black reaches him.
I don't think they got word she was at Castle Black. He got word that she fled Winterfell and he suspected that she would head to Castle Black.
Plus, Littlefinger could travel by sea up the east coast, roughly from the Vale ports to Eastwatch. He would figure to make very good time as long as the weather held up.
The more important logistical question is whether Royce has actually mobilized the Vale, and where the Knights are encamped. It would take a lot longer to march an army from Gulltown to Winterfell than it would for Baelish to sail up to Eastwatch and cross to Mole's Town.
I don't think Baelish will double-cross the Starks again. It's a much better twist at this point if he doesn't do anything devious.
Quote:
I don't think they got word she was at Castle Black. He got word that she fled Winterfell and he suspected that she would head to Castle Black.
Plus, Littlefinger could travel by sea up the east coast, roughly from the Vale ports to Eastwatch. He would figure to make very good time as long as the weather held up.
The more important logistical question is whether Royce has actually mobilized the Vale, and where the Knights are encamped. It would take a lot longer to march an army from Gulltown to Winterfell than it would for Baelish to sail up to Eastwatch and cross to Mole's Town.
I don't think Baelish will double-cross the Starks again. It's a much better twist at this point if he doesn't do anything devious.
Littlefinger said he "rode north with the Knights of the Vale to come to your aid. They're encamped at Moat Cailin as we speak." So likely they rode north and took Moat Cailin and then perhaps he took a boat to east watch.
Assuming Littlefinger is telling the truth, taking Moat Cailin is a big deal. It was held by the Boltons and Freys, and was the prize that got Ramsay legitimized. If the Lords of the Vale have taken it from him, they are already committed to the war in the North. I guess they could simply stop and consolidate their gains, or head southwest and encircle the Freys at The Twins. Either way, they are in it.
2) The man who was stabbed and became the king white walker - do we know who he is, or is it speculation at this point?
3) The hodor thing was a bit confusing, but I guess it will get explained as the show goes along. Is bran "changing" the past? Or is the present and past linked, and occurring simultaneously? The fact that up into this point he has only said the word "hodor," means that Bran warging into him happened in the future..
The man stab is not the Night's King. The Night's King according to Old Nan's lore was rumored to be a Stark. People forget that the Others aren't just some zombies but also considered themselves to be of nobility. Bloodlines matter to them too.
My own theory all along has been the Night's King is looking for a heir that is a certain Stark before they march south for another 'Long Night'. Starks share the same mystic abilities. Bran is most adapt at it though.
Even in the show the first meeting of the Night's King, he was holding court. There is a purpose to their madness. I'm sure there is a bride waiting for Bran further up north.
Unless ravens or whispers can travel thousands of miles over bodies of water, we have so suspend that some time has passed between events to give proper time for Varys to receiving the information from another continent and relay those messages in Kings Landing....even though both scenes occurred in the same episode or the following one.
I think the travels this year with Sansa, Theon and Littlefinger follow this same assumption and scenes from the same episode are occurring at different times to account for the travel.
We finally found out why that sorcerer (Red Priest?) emasculated him, because he needed his body parts in a ritual for the Lord of the Light. Which helps explains his great disdain and bitter hatred for magic and its practitioners.
Really great scene!
Bran didn't alter the past in this episode. It's a casual loop. Wyllis was always going to become "Hodor" because Bran was always going to warg with Hodor and Meera telling him to "hold the door"
That's why it works that Hodor has been "Hodor" for the past four seasons despite Bran not going back in time until now.
--------------
Also, for those who were fans of LOST, this episode was directed by Jack Bender who directed "The Constant" among other episodes.
Unless ravens or whispers can travel thousands of miles over bodies of water, we have so suspend that some time has passed between events to give proper time for Varys to receiving the information from another continent and relay those messages in Kings Landing....even though both scenes occurred in the same episode or the following one.
I think the travels this year with Sansa, Theon and Littlefinger follow this same assumption and scenes from the same episode are occurring at different times to account for the travel.
We finally found out why that sorcerer (Red Priest?) emasculated him, because he needed his body parts in a ritual for the Lord of the Light. Which helps explains his great disdain and bitter hatred for magic and its practitioners.
Really great scene!
Great point. I don't think we've ever seen Varys flustered once. That was some surprising shit
Quote:
In the past we've had scenes showing Dany do things on another continent but Varys would mention those items in Kings Landing minutes later that same episode.
Unless ravens or whispers can travel thousands of miles over bodies of water, we have so suspend that some time has passed between events to give proper time for Varys to receiving the information from another continent and relay those messages in Kings Landing....even though both scenes occurred in the same episode or the following one.
I think the travels this year with Sansa, Theon and Littlefinger follow this same assumption and scenes from the same episode are occurring at different times to account for the travel.
im okay with that. But then, you have to assume that Jon comes back alive then Sansa comes then little finger comes. Which means jons been twiddling his thumbs as a reanimated person for months so tat the times can match up. That seems odd.
I thought about this last night and I think the real key is on how long it took from Theon and Sansa jumping the wall to reaching Jon at the wall. Let's say for this exercise, it takes 3-4 weeks to travel from Winterfell to the Wall.
Let's say for the fun of putting these timelines together, here is my theory....
1 month ago
- Battle between Bolton's army and Stannis's.
- Theon and Sansa jump the wall and travel north.
- Melisandre wasn't allowed to travel with Stannis into battle, so she was camped further north of Winderfell and the battlefields. Let's say once learning of Stannis's defeat, she traveled to the wall which takes her 3 weeks.
- Littlefinger gets word from one of his spies that Sansa has fled and makes his way to the Vale.
3 weeks ago
- Theon and Sansa are still on the run but Ramsey's men are closing in.
- Brienne saves them both and Sansa continues to go north with Brienne and Podrick to reunite with Jon.
- Theon at this time parts way with Sansa and heads off to the Iron Islands.
- Ramsey kills his father and takes over as the title of Warren of the North\Lord of Winterfell.
-Little Finger arrives at the Vale and convinces Robin to send his Vale army to protect his cousin Sansa.
1 week ago
- After Rooses death, different northan houses pledge allegence to Ramsey. Lord Umber offers Rickon Stark, Osha and Shaggy's head as gifts.
- Melisandre arrives at the Wall with news Stannis lost against the Boltons and her faith shaken
- That same night, Jon gets stabbed. His friends defend his body for a day from Alliser and the other traitors. Wildlings arrive that night to restore order. Davos convinces Melisandre to bring Jon back from the dead. Estimate Jon was dead for 3 days till he was bought back.
- Theon arrives at the Iron Islands and learns of his fathers recent death. He also gives his support to his sister Yara to succeed him as Queen.
- Littlefinger and the Vale army arrive at Moat Cailin where they take control and setup camp
Current
- Sansa, Brienne and Pod arrive at the wall, where she gets reunited with Jon....who himself has only been bought back to life a few days ago and still deciding where to leave too as he can't trust the Knights Watch after they killed him.
- Littlefinger gets the message to Sansa to meet at a location close between the wall and Moat Cailin.
- Jon and Sansa gets the message from Ramsey that he's holding Rickon as a prisoner and wants Sansa back.
- Week after their fathers death, the Iron Islands hold a kingsmoot to decide their new king. Yara makes a case and Theon gives her his support. Their uncle Euron arrives and convinces them to elect him as king and build him 1000 ships to bring Dany's army and dragons to Westros. Where the Iron born will then be able to plunder, loot and take revenge on all their enemies while Dany's army takes over all.
Roughly give or take some time here and there to accurately account for the distances traveled but that should be a solid timeline.....in my opinion. =)
Makes it hard to communicate about the show when people who have read the book chime in.
Makes it hard to communicate about the show when people who have read the book chime in.
Where are you seeing that name mentioned on this thread?
Hodor seeing him is different imo because Bran was possessing him in the present so I think that is what connected the two times. As long as Bran doesn't Warg anyone and then see them in the past, his influence will be limited to whispers. At least, that's how I read it.
and by "read it", I mean interpret the show. Not anything I read in a book so calm down everyone.
I found it interesting how Little Finger planted that seed in Sansa's head about finding people who are loyal to her - making sure to emphasize that Jon Snow is only a half brother. Sounds like he's angling to have Sansa turn on Jon Snow at some point - perhaps after Bolton's army is defeated.
It seems to me now there are only 3 WWs left, and it seems pretty easy to kill them with that special sword.
Sooooooo, why not kill those 3? chances are the walking dead that follow them will return to the earth. Problem solved! Agree or not?
It seems to me now there are only 3 WWs left, and it seems pretty easy to kill them with that special sword.
Sooooooo, why not kill those 3? chances are the walking dead that follow them will return to the earth. Problem solved! Agree or not?
Never expected that to be the twist. Heartbreaking and powerful. One of the better final scenes in this shows history imo, although there are a lot to choose from.
Felt like a slow set-up episode then boom, great ending. This show is just on fire right now as far as I'm concerned.
The sexy new red priestess vs. Varys was a cool scene. We've seen Varys look shook before, but never like that.
Tormund stole the episode without saying a word. His interactions with Brienne have been fun to watch.
I disagree very strongly. They have shown over and over and over across 6 seasons that Hodor is paralyzed by fear in dangerous situations. Can't contain his panic. He wouldn't just block the door for the hell of it. He wouldn't think "Hey I know, I'll go save Bran!"
Solid episode on that front. The red priestess called for a Google invstigation as well.
Quote:
play version of Sansa? If not, have at it...
Solid episode on that front. The red priestess called for a Google invstigation as well.
If only this red priestess had been casted as the original red priestess....
Sam, Jon Snow, Meera... are those the only ones to kill a Wight at this point? What a trio. The savior of the realm + a chubby loser and a middle school aged girl.
Quote:
In comment 12968963 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
play version of Sansa? If not, have at it...
Solid episode on that front. The red priestess called for a Google invstigation as well.
If only this red priestess had been casted as the original red priestess....
They're both hot.
Bran pretty much got everyone good killed.
One last point on Hodor. I liked how Lyanna was nice to him. That "flashback" scene was mostly about Hodor, but Lyanna's presence was the next most important thing. Benjen after that.
Bran pretty much got everyone good killed.
And he's named after something old people eat to clean the shit out of their systems. Yuck.
Quote:
A garbage piece of shit like Bran.
Bran pretty much got everyone good killed.
And he's named after something old people eat to clean the shit out of their systems. Yuck.
Never eating Raisin Bran again!
So are a lot of 'tween girls. If Thomas Brodie-Sangster hadn't bought the farm outside that cave, I might have been able to get my daughters to watch the show with me. They've been monitoring his career with keen interest since Love Actually and Nanny McPhee.
Nope Ned Was still going to Kings Landing to be the Kings Hand.
Still would find out about Jon Ayrins murder. Same fate only Bran would lose his head too.
The Spoiler Police have their tasers charged and ready.
I'm content to think of Meera as the Bad-Ass Chick North of the Wall. Girl Power seems to be the over-arching theme of Season Six, with powerful women asserting themselves all over the map. Why should the Land of Always Winter be an exception?
And it would appear that Cersi is pissed off.
I never saw Syrio die. I choose to believe he made it out, maybe hanging with the Hound and Gendry.
Until I see different it what I believe is going to happen.
Quote:
...has been ignominious deaths for noble characters. Hodor is one of the few to die nobly, joining other humble players like Syrio, Yoren and Jojen, who also gave their lives protecting a wolf pup. Tying the end to his one-word vocabulary was a bittersweet bonus. I give Hodor's death a big thumbs-up, although the zombie apocalypse aspect is a bit cheesy.
I never saw Syrio die. I choose to believe he made it out, maybe hanging with the Hound and Gendry.
I prefer to believe that Syrio is the Waif.
Let's say for the fun of putting these timelines together, here is my theory....
1 month ago
- Battle between Bolton's army and Stannis's.
- Theon and Sansa jump the wall and travel north.
- Melisandre wasn't allowed to travel with Stannis into battle, so she was camped further north of Winderfell and the battlefields. Let's say once learning of Stannis's defeat, she traveled to the wall which takes her 3 weeks.
- Littlefinger gets word from one of his spies that Sansa has fled and makes his way to the Vale.
3 weeks ago
- Theon and Sansa are still on the run but Ramsey's men are closing in.
- Brienne saves them both and Sansa continues to go north with Brienne and Podrick to reunite with Jon.
- Theon at this time parts way with Sansa and heads off to the Iron Islands.
- Ramsey kills his father and takes over as the title of Warren of the North\Lord of Winterfell.
-Little Finger arrives at the Vale and convinces Robin to send his Vale army to protect his cousin Sansa.
1 week ago
- After Rooses death, different northan houses pledge allegence to Ramsey. Lord Umber offers Rickon Stark, Osha and Shaggy's head as gifts.
- Melisandre arrives at the Wall with news Stannis lost against the Boltons and her faith shaken
- That same night, Jon gets stabbed. His friends defend his body for a day from Alliser and the other traitors. Wildlings arrive that night to restore order. Davos convinces Melisandre to bring Jon back from the dead. Estimate Jon was dead for 3 days till he was bought back.
- Theon arrives at the Iron Islands and learns of his fathers recent death. He also gives his support to his sister Yara to succeed him as Queen.
- Littlefinger and the Vale army arrive at Moat Cailin where they take control and setup camp
Current
- Sansa, Brienne and Pod arrive at the wall, where she gets reunited with Jon....who himself has only been bought back to life a few days ago and still deciding where to leave too as he can't trust the Knights Watch after they killed him.
- Littlefinger gets the message to Sansa to meet at a location close between the wall and Moat Cailin.
- Jon and Sansa gets the message from Ramsey that he's holding Rickon as a prisoner and wants Sansa back.
- Week after their fathers death, the Iron Islands hold a kingsmoot to decide their new king. Yara makes a case and Theon gives her his support. Their uncle Euron arrives and convinces them to elect him as king and build him 1000 ships to bring Dany's army and dragons to Westros. Where the Iron born will then be able to plunder, loot and take revenge on all their enemies while Dany's army takes over all.
Roughly give or take some time here and there to accurately account for the distances traveled but that should be a solid timeline.....in my opinion. =)
The Hound vs Zombie Mountain is the grudge match all of Westeros is waiting for. The PPV revenue would be through the roof.
Don't forget Sir Barristan and Gren (that dude held the gate against a friggen Giant) Plus that wildling lady at Hardhome who refused to get in a boat when the attack started.
Quote:
...has been ignominious deaths for noble characters. Hodor is one of the few to die nobly, joining other humble players like Syrio, Yoren and Jojen, who also gave their lives protecting a wolf pup. Tying the end to his one-word vocabulary was a bittersweet bonus. I give Hodor's death a big thumbs-up, although the zombie apocalypse aspect is a bit cheesy.
Don't forget Sir Barristan and Gren (that dude held the gate against a friggen Giant) Plus that wildling lady at Hardhome who refused to get in a boat when the attack started.
Never mind. I probably should have actually read the post before replying. :/
Who is Benjen? I know he is a Stark uncle, but when have we seen him?
Quote:
Benjen next week.
Who is Benjen? I know he is a Stark uncle, but when have we seen him?
Season one. He is the one who Jon talked to about joining the NIghts Watch. He went out on a mission and disappeared.
Quote:
Benjen next week.
Who is Benjen? I know he is a Stark uncle, but when have we seen him?
When everyone went north of the Wall, I believe it was a rescue mission for Benjen.
That could set up an interesting information exchange between he and Sam. Sam knows of Shireen's cured greyscale. Plus, you know, all the White Walker stuff that could interest Danaerys.
Or he could just die along the way and we never hear from him again.
That could set up an interesting information exchange between he and Sam. Sam knows of Shireen's cured greyscale. Plus, you know, all the White Walker stuff that could interest Danaerys.
Or he could just die along the way and we never hear from him again.
Sam is going to Old Town which is still in Westeros. Jorah would have to cross the sea to link of with Sam. I guess its possible, but the travel alone would likely take too long and would die from the greyscale. Who knows though.
Quote:
My guess is he ends up looking for a cure in the place that Sam is heading, since its where the the largest library is and is where all the maesters study.
That could set up an interesting information exchange between he and Sam. Sam knows of Shireen's cured greyscale. Plus, you know, all the White Walker stuff that could interest Danaerys.
Or he could just die along the way and we never hear from him again.
Sam is going to Old Town which is still in Westeros. Jorah would have to cross the sea to link of with Sam. I guess its possible, but the travel alone would likely take too long and would die from the greyscale. Who knows though.
So what your saying is, he'll get there next episode?
He was there when the Three Eyed Raven died (killed by the White walkers)in the tree. Touching the Warewood tree was his conection to the Raven and the warging seeing though the trees and learning the past.
. Thats why Hodor as Willis saw him in the past. Then Bran Wargs into both Hodors establishing a link to the future and him Holding the Door.
When we see Bran he is still in Warg stag and had to be dragged away. Hodor Dies so Bran feels that and is still stuck in the past. One Hodor dies the other goes conniptions fit.
Bran is still in the past and the only way he has left to get back to this time is to warg into someone from that time that is still around? This is Where Benjen Stark comes into play. Its Brans only way back. Benjen has to reappear or Bran is fucked.
None of this is in the books just me thinking out loud.
Also, if Yara is going to try and steal Euron's plan, cause what else is she going to do?, I bet Danaerys will be more trusting to a powerful female ship captain than and arrogant man trying to force negotiations with her.
Maybe this is why the Night's King was able to see Bran in his vision, because he has that same ability. Plus it would explain how on a more powerful amped up level, he can warg the dead. Kill the Night's King and the undead army goes down.
Plus if the Night's King has that same ability as 3ERaven and Bran to see the past and future, maybe that's why he want Bran so badly. He knows how powerful Bran is and if he can covert him into a White Walker, his army would be almost unstoppable in the coming war down south.
Also, if Yara is going to try and steal Euron's plan, cause what else is she going to do?, I bet Danaerys will be more trusting to a powerful female ship captain than and arrogant man trying to force negotiations with her.
I think it makes sense that the Harpies were not responsible for burning the fleet as they just want her to leave. It's counterproductive. Not sure I buy Euron being behind it though. But its a good theory.
Maybe this is why the Night's King was able to see Bran in his vision, because he has that same ability. Plus it would explain how on a more powerful amped up level, he can warg the dead. Kill the Night's King and the undead army goes down.
Plus if the Night's King has that same ability as 3ERaven and Bran to see the past and future, maybe that's why he want Bran so badly. He knows how powerful Bran is and if he can covert him into a White Walker, his army would be almost unstoppable in the coming war down south.
I posted a similar theory over on the book thread. But if raising the dead really is just the WW warging into corpses perhaps that's something Bran could key into.
I suppose Kevan is leading the Lannister Army, not Cersei
Just make the guy a JAG, and move the focus of the show back to Kings Landing and Dany's trek back to Westeros. The Wall stuff is cool, but it also has the potential to just be too SciFi and ruin the other story lines.
Just make the guy a JAG, and move the focus of the show back to Kings Landing and Dany's trek back to Westeros. The Wall stuff is cool, but it also has the potential to just be too SciFi and ruin the other story lines.
Why in the world would the Night's King be JAG? What a pointless villain that would make. I'd be shocked if it wasn't Stark related.
I generally like your feedback and opinions on things but you always give off this sense like if a show or movie goes in direction a, b, c it'll be ruined for you. Keep an open mind, cause the show is definitely going further into magical, spiritual and "sci-fi" places.
Not a book reader myself but it's been mentioned on these "non-spoiler" threads before that Jon Snow always wargs into Ghost mostly when he's sleeping, so he really doesn't know he has that ability. Not sure if any other Stark kids in the books exhibited this ability or not.
Other people have shown the ability to warg but not to the level Starks like Bran, 3ERaven (future Bran?) or even the NK who might be a bloodline from the Starks ancestors.
Quote:
Is it possible that the Night's King is a Stark (possibly that first white walker shown created this week). Then as a Stark, has the ability to warg like Bran and Three Eyed Raven had?
Maybe this is why the Night's King was able to see Bran in his vision, because he has that same ability. Plus it would explain how on a more powerful amped up level, he can warg the dead. Kill the Night's King and the undead army goes down.
Plus if the Night's King has that same ability as 3ERaven and Bran to see the past and future, maybe that's why he want Bran so badly. He knows how powerful Bran is and if he can covert him into a White Walker, his army would be almost unstoppable in the coming war down south.
I posted a similar theory over on the book thread. But if raising the dead really is just the WW warging into corpses perhaps that's something Bran could key into.
That'd be cool Peter. Everyone guesses in the end Bran will warg into one of the dragons, I think that's too easy and Bran has a bigger fate to the end story-line. I think the final battle Bran will go toe to toe with the Night's King waring corpses to battle each other.
Which in turn gives the other players in this game a fighting chance with the Dragons with Dany, Tyrion and Jon each riding one dragon apiece.
Quote:
Why would TNK's ability to warg suggest that he is a Stark?
Not a book reader myself but it's been mentioned on these "non-spoiler" threads before that Jon Snow always wargs into Ghost mostly when he's sleeping, so he really doesn't know he has that ability. Not sure if any other Stark kids in the books exhibited this ability or not.
Other people have shown the ability to warg but not to the level Starks like Bran, 3ERaven (future Bran?) or even the NK who might be a bloodline from the Starks ancestors.
How do we know the wildling who warged (Orell) doesn't do it to the level of Bran?
Also, while it may have been mentioned in these threads, has there been any reference in any of the shows that Jon Snow wargs into Ghost? I can't recall anything close to that happening, so it's disappointing to see people discuss that on this thread.
The only wargs we have seen in the show are Orell, Bran, and a Thenn.
There are a million theories out there and some are bound to have correct guesses, but I just don't see anything to suggest that the Night King potentially being able to warg (not even definite) suggests that he is a Stark
Also, do you guys think we're completely done with "The Children"? That one lead Children-girl helping Meera was still alive after being stabbed dozens of times. It looked like a suicide bomb that she set off, but maybe she's immortal?
The Children are the ones who created the White Walkers, and now we're done with them? Doesn't seem right.
Quote:
PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:
Why would TNK's ability to warg suggest that he is a Stark?
There are a million theories out there and some are bound to have correct guesses, but I just don't see anything to suggest that the Night King potentially being able to warg (not even definite) suggests that he is a Stark
Dude he saw and touched Bran when he was in the past. That's more than just seeing through animals. That's on the 3eravens level.
warg- the ability to enter the minds of animals and control the animals with their POV.
greensight: psychic ability to have visions of the past or future while in a dream state.
Bran is special in that he has both abilities.
The Night King has a lot of different abilities that we already know about, but that the Night King saw Bran and touched in Bran's vision doesn't mean that he is a warg, nor that he has greensight.
Above all, it certainly doesn't suggest in any way that he is a Stark.
Uh...magic? I don't think it has been clearly explained how he could see and touch Bran, but obviously he has some sort of powerful magic.
Maybe he's a warg. Maybe he has greensight. We don't know that, though. Also, we have no reason to think the Three Eyed Raven is a Stark, either.
Quote:
weird linking of the first WW to an existing character or bloodline. Just makes things to far out there and would make everything else going on so unimportant.
Just make the guy a JAG, and move the focus of the show back to Kings Landing and Dany's trek back to Westeros. The Wall stuff is cool, but it also has the potential to just be too SciFi and ruin the other story lines.
Why in the world would the Night's King be JAG? What a pointless villain that would make. I'd be shocked if it wasn't Stark related.
I generally like your feedback and opinions on things but you always give off this sense like if a show or movie goes in direction a, b, c it'll be ruined for you. Keep an open mind, cause the show is definitely going further into magical, spiritual and "sci-fi" places.
Maybe JAG is a bit extreme but I really hope it isn't a current Stark that's alive. Stark ancestor, fine, I can live with that.
I'm completely open minded, i've read every book and enjoy them immensely. I'm hoping the rest of the story doesn't dive completely off the cliffs I guess.
Question, at the end of Season 4, when Bran was first seeking the 3ERaven, before they entered the tree they had to get past a mine field of zombies. Who put those zombies there? Did the Night's King always know of the location and placed his un-dead soldiers at the base of the three to prevent 3ERaven from ever getting assistance from the outside?
Plus if those zombies at the base of the tree in season 4 were place there by the Night's King, wouldn't he already know where Bran was by controlling and re-animating those zombies there? The minute Bran stepped into that tree and was magically protected, the Night's King should have known and camped close by waiting for an opening to get to them.
Unless the Night's King can also greensight (visions of past and future) and had already seen in a vision that Bran would make that mistake and get marked, which would explain why they got there so fast and were waiting for them.
in Season 3
"You Can't kill it you know" Its you.
Good point, initially I thought it was more about finding Bran's location.
I suspect that the Sparrow told Tommen about his brother (extracted through Loras), he told his mother (which the Sparrow knew he would), and tempered with Jaime's patience versus her impetuousness this is a 'get the Tyrells killed' planned double cross.
I suspect that the Sparrow told Tommen about his brother (extracted through Loras), he told his mother (which the Sparrow knew he would), and tempered with Jaime's patience versus her impetuousness this is a 'get the Tyrells killed' planned double cross.
So are your thinking another Red Wedding?