but i'm not really feeling the time travel angle. No idea if this is GRRM's vision, but I feel like its a really lame/convenient way to tell the story, makes me wonder how much other stuff they will explain with it.
The episode was full of some pretty good moments, capped off with the Hodor/time reveal, but I really hope the story doesn't start revolving around altering time.
I agree, I'm fine as a one off thing. But it adds another layer of complexity to an already complex show if it's going to be recurring.
Also, what value does knowing the Children of the Forest creating the White Walkers add? Is there something more to that?
almost irrelevant if Bran and/or anyone else has that kind of power. Its all just eye candy if Bran ends up being this kind of force who can alter time. I really hope I am wrong and they scale back on that story line, but i'm starting to have my doubts especially how much they've accelerated the pace to fit the whole story in. Time travel can basically makes any story line end at any moment with a plausible reason.
time travel is Deus ex Machina and generally kinda weak / lazy Â
Minor annoyance of mine is the sudden rates of travel. People are getting around much more quickly.
You answered your own question. The rates of travel alone shows me things are being sped up because it all needs to fit; why else do it? We used to have subplots during someone's journey from Winterfell to the Wall, and that just hasn't happened much, if at all this season.
I don't know why people get offended or need some info on others thinking the show is being rushed.
Nothing's changed with the source content, and the length of the series is the same( unlike Rome, who had to condense the 2nd and 3rd season into one).
Just saw ten minutes of a Shakespearean play, Jorah leaving for the 3rd time, another Red Lady making a speech, Jon doing nothing but finally mounting his horse, etc.
... and could travel openly during the day, Sansa, Brienne and Pod could probably reach Castle Black (6-700 miles north of Winterfell) in well under a month - say three weeks. In the meantime, Littlefinger has sailed up to Runestone to visit Royce and Robin, then continued up the coast - probably to near Eastwatch - and then inland to Mole's Town for their rendezvous. Considering the progress Arya and Bran have made in their training, and the density of developments in King's Landing and the Dothraki Sea, I don't think the pace of travel is that improbable.
The reason so much time was spent on the Kingroad in Season 1 was that the show needed to acquaint a new audience with the time, place and characters. Did you really want another five-episode meander through the countryside with Brienne and Pod?
Interstellar-like garbage, I'll be very, very disappointed.
The story is best with pinches of supernatural fantasy here and there with a consistent focus on the strengths and flaws of human character, especially in positions of power. I'm not digging these Children of the Forest. They look lame, act lame, and (so far) serve a lame purpose in the storyline.
It seems like the lazy way out of a jam, by the author.
What were the rules of the smoke baby that killed Renly? I'd argue that was an infinitely larger crock of horseshit than this. That was the only way Stannis could defeat Renly.
Nothing's changed with the source content, and the length of the series is the same( unlike Rome, who had to condense the 2nd and 3rd season into one).
Just saw ten minutes of a Shakespearean play, Jorah leaving for the 3rd time, another Red Lady making a speech, Jon doing nothing but finally mounting his horse, etc.
Well its based on plenty, but this is a no spoilers thread. Not sure what to tell you, i think its being rushed, why do you even care?
Nothing's changed with the source content, and the length of the series is the same( unlike Rome, who had to condense the 2nd and 3rd season into one).
Just saw ten minutes of a Shakespearean play, Jorah leaving for the 3rd time, another Red Lady making a speech, Jon doing nothing but finally mounting his horse, etc.
Well its based on plenty, but this is a no spoilers thread. Not sure what to tell you, i think its being rushed, why do you even care?
You keep stating it for a fact, don't understand why. It could've been outlined seven years ago exactly as it's unfolding now.
Argument every week. I'm with Schabadoo. Yes things are moving quicker but I feel that's because the story is reaching its climax. We no longer need hours of boring backstory. I don't feel as if anything is rushed and by all accounts they are expanding the 7th season based of the seventh book for TV watchers. Think of it as a bonus.
this entire thread is people's opinion, why is this any different? Multiple people I work with think the same as me(especially after this most recent episode aired, some non book readers) and others don't, they don't jump at my throat asking me to prove my point, so I don't see why its being done now.
Some plotlines are being ridiculously sped through. You can make an argument that its because it only needs 2-5 minutes to get the point across, or you can argue that its just to move the story along.
they aren't expanding the show, not sure how many times that will be the defense mechanism, but i'm not going to bother with it anymore.
As for the show, i'm most interested in what Littlefinger does. After barely being on it, and now being thrown back into it with what I thought was a neutering by Sansa, I hope he backstabs her since she should have killed him. She left an opening and I hope he takes it. His little screen time needs to be beefed up. The way he delivered the news of Riverrun and Jon being her "Half Brother" was kinda weak. I'm ithing for an epic scene with him.
I'm also interested in what Theon/Asha will be doing with the Iron Fleet. Race to Mereen perhaps? Or will the go north and try to take the north?
I think (obliviously I have no way to know) that the time travel scenes were only used as teaching tools for Bran. As was said he needs to know everything. The Hodor ending was a nice but heart wrenching twist on the naming/purpose of a favorite character.
I would be surprised and very disappointed if the writers decide to wrap up the story lines by time traveling back to say: stop the white walkers from being created or stop Ned Stark from being executed or stop the Red wedding….etc.
I trust they know that once is a clever cinematic devise, twice is a cheap trick and beneath the quality of GoT.
that essentially my point, this season, while much better than last season, has pacing issues left and right. I just can't accept that Littlefinger gets to the wall the scene after Sansa decides she's going to march back and take Winterfell with Jon. Its convenient because it needs to be in order to move the story along.
And any guesses to how long it takes the 47 citizens of Pyke to build 1,000 ships? My guess is by episode 8, and somehow, they will also catch up to Theon.
this entire thread is people's opinion, why is this any different? Multiple people I work with think the same as me(especially after this most recent episode aired, some non book readers) and others don't, they don't jump at my throat asking me to prove my point, so I don't see why its being done now.
Some plotlines are being ridiculously sped through. You can make an argument that its because it only needs 2-5 minutes to get the point across, or you can argue that its just to move the story along.
So why should I care what you think? You're the one beating the same sad story every week. I could use your same rationale in reverse. I've given you direct quotes from the writers saying the original intention was to have seven television seasons to match seven books. We know for a almost certainty that after season 6 is over we are likely getting 14-15 episodes instead of 10. For the idiots at home, that means we are getting MORE.
You dont agree? GREAT. For the rest of us that love this season, and feel the pace is fantastic, we dont need you berating the same crap week after week.
that essentially my point, this season, while much better than last season, has pacing issues left and right. I just can't accept that Littlefinger gets to the wall the scene after Sansa decides she's going to march back and take Winterfell with Jon. Its convenient because it needs to be in order to move the story along.
And any guesses to how long it takes the 47 citizens of Pyke to build 1,000 ships? My guess is by episode 8, and somehow, they will also catch up to Theon.
I have an issue with it as well, although I wouldn't get too caught up in it. It worries me that someone could arrive in the nick of time (Vale knights if they were to attack Ramsey, Stannis and the wildlings on the Wall, heck, Aragorn and the Dead at Minas Tirith and the cavalry in any western) if time has no meaning.
this entire thread is people's opinion, why is this any different? Multiple people I work with think the same as me(especially after this most recent episode aired, some non book readers) and others don't, they don't jump at my throat asking me to prove my point, so I don't see why its being done now.
Some plotlines are being ridiculously sped through. You can make an argument that its because it only needs 2-5 minutes to get the point across, or you can argue that its just to move the story along.
So why should I care what you think? You're the one beating the same sad story every week. I could use your same rationale in reverse. I've given you direct quotes from the writers saying the original intention was to have seven television seasons to match seven books. We know for a almost certainty that after season 6 is over we are likely getting 14-15 episodes instead of 10. For the idiots at home, that means we are getting MORE.
You dont agree? GREAT. For the rest of us that love this season, and feel the pace is fantastic, we dont need you berating the same crap week after week.
Perfect, and feel free to ignore me, or start a non-UConn4523 thread, either works for me.
Me thinking the story is rushed is no different than thinking Jon kills Ramsay, or Sansa is pregnant, or really anything else. The only difference is you are taking it as a slight against a show you think has little or no flaws at all.
IMO, if I'm allowed to still have one, this show was at its very peak when the pieces were being set and the game's moves were being made. With the end in sight we are getting less of the game which is naturally going to happen, but for me, its not as compelling.
... and could travel openly during the day, Sansa, Brienne and Pod could probably reach Castle Black (6-700 miles north of Winterfell) in well under a month - say three weeks. In the meantime, Littlefinger has sailed up to Runestone to visit Royce and Robin, then continued up the coast - probably to near Eastwatch - and then inland to Mole's Town for their rendezvous. Considering the progress Arya and Bran have made in their training, and the density of developments in King's Landing and the Dothraki Sea, I don't think the pace of travel is that improbable.
Except Littlefinger doesn't decide to travel until word of Sansa Stark making it to the Castle Black reaches him.
Quote:
The reason so much time was spent on the Kingroad in Season 1 was that the show needed to acquaint a new audience with the time, place and characters. Did you really want another five-episode meander through the countryside with Brienne and Pod?
Yea, I only mentioned the Kingsroad bit to show how long it takes to travel via land. A line or two or a visual cue to show the passage of time would suffice. It's been done before.
The show makes it seem like Littlefinger showed up a week after Sansa did, especially since they just started planning their next course of action in the ensuring scene at Castle Black.
I expect more teleportation. After Euron builds 1000 ships with sailing crews, he'll need some way to magically appear in Meereen.
while watching is that we're never certain scenes are happening contemporaneously. To our eye, it seems they are, but it's probably not actually the case.
I think you have to just sort of accept that point and not focus to much on the travel times as different characters interact with each other.
the time scheme is a little distorted considering how fast Theon got to the Iron Islands, even given that story time and varying events tv time may not match up exactly. Not that Theon seems to be essential so far with respect to events on the Iron Islands. Further, given the relative locations of the Iron Islands and Meereen and that there seems to be no transcontinental waterway, it would seem like a lot of time will be needed to get get everyone in place. Figure building a thousand ships and sailing them around a continent to a completely different water body would normally take a year (likely more than one) (even longer than that if the builders are gov't workers). So, I think we all are going to have to agree to suspend some disbelief.
the people getting from one location to another is too unrealistic, what you are asking for is episode after episode of people traveling. That is the opposite of compelling TV and visual storytelling. So it is incumbent on us as viewers to accept that a change in location is accompanied by a passage of time.
Unless you really want scenes of people riding along a trail on horseback for mile after mile. This is like the Walking Dead threads where people say they want to see people scrounging for supplies. Sure, maybe it's compelling to see someone siphoning a a couple of Buicks for some people. But for most? Not so much...
Personally I don't think the story is being rushed. I think it is settling into a proper groove after being a little too deliberate before. Whether they were stalling for time for Martin to write or whatever, I think it's at a good pace now.
the people getting from one location to another is too unrealistic, what you are asking for is episode after episode of people traveling. That is the opposite of compelling TV and visual storytelling. So it is incumbent on us as viewers to accept that a change in location is accompanied by a passage of time.
Unless you really want scenes of people riding along a trail on horseback for mile after mile. This is like the Walking Dead threads where people say they want to see people scrounging for supplies. Sure, maybe it's compelling to see someone siphoning a a couple of Buicks for some people. But for most? Not so much...
That's true. I think that what [what] some people want though is to make sure that events make sense. Not showing the travel but that, where a person needs to be somewhere for a specific reason (e.g. showing up in the nick of time for a rescue) is logical given where they were starting from, if the when they were starting is known.
... and could travel openly during the day, Sansa, Brienne and Pod could probably reach Castle Black (6-700 miles north of Winterfell) in well under a month - say three weeks. In the meantime, Littlefinger has sailed up to Runestone to visit Royce and Robin, then continued up the coast - probably to near Eastwatch - and then inland to Mole's Town for their rendezvous. Considering the progress Arya and Bran have made in their training, and the density of developments in King's Landing and the Dothraki Sea, I don't think the pace of travel is that improbable.
Except Littlefinger doesn't decide to travel until word of Sansa Stark making it to the Castle Black reaches him.
I don't think they got word she was at Castle Black. He got word that she fled Winterfell and he suspected that she would head to Castle Black.
I don't think they got word she was at Castle Black. He got word that she fled Winterfell and he suspected that she would head to Castle Black.
Plus, Littlefinger could travel by sea up the east coast, roughly from the Vale ports to Eastwatch. He would figure to make very good time as long as the weather held up.
The more important logistical question is whether Royce has actually mobilized the Vale, and where the Knights are encamped. It would take a lot longer to march an army from Gulltown to Winterfell than it would for Baelish to sail up to Eastwatch and cross to Mole's Town.
I don't think Baelish will double-cross the Starks again. It's a much better twist at this point if he doesn't do anything devious.
I don't think they got word she was at Castle Black. He got word that she fled Winterfell and he suspected that she would head to Castle Black.
Plus, Littlefinger could travel by sea up the east coast, roughly from the Vale ports to Eastwatch. He would figure to make very good time as long as the weather held up.
The more important logistical question is whether Royce has actually mobilized the Vale, and where the Knights are encamped. It would take a lot longer to march an army from Gulltown to Winterfell than it would for Baelish to sail up to Eastwatch and cross to Mole's Town.
I don't think Baelish will double-cross the Starks again. It's a much better twist at this point if he doesn't do anything devious.
Littlefinger said he "rode north with the Knights of the Vale to come to your aid. They're encamped at Moat Cailin as we speak." So likely they rode north and took Moat Cailin and then perhaps he took a boat to east watch.
Littlefinger said he "rode north with the Knights of the Vale to come to your aid. They're encamped at Moat Cailin as we speak." So likely they rode north and took Moat Cailin and then perhaps he took a boat to east watch.
I forgot about that. Moat Cailin is about 500 miles from Winterfell - still quite a long way for a medieval army, but they've covered about half the distance and taken a key fort.
Assuming Littlefinger is telling the truth, taking Moat Cailin is a big deal. It was held by the Boltons and Freys, and was the prize that got Ramsay legitimized. If the Lords of the Vale have taken it from him, they are already committed to the war in the North. I guess they could simply stop and consolidate their gains, or head southwest and encircle the Freys at The Twins. Either way, they are in it.
There are other possibilities for what's going on at Moat Cailin... Â
1) Has the show really gone into depth about the children of the forest? No right? Just that they are part of the "original people" of the land? Why are they protecting/helping Bran?
2) The man who was stabbed and became the king white walker - do we know who he is, or is it speculation at this point?
3) The hodor thing was a bit confusing, but I guess it will get explained as the show goes along. Is bran "changing" the past? Or is the present and past linked, and occurring simultaneously? The fact that up into this point he has only said the word "hodor," means that Bran warging into him happened in the future..
The man stab is not the Night's King. The Night's King according to Old Nan's lore was rumored to be a Stark. People forget that the Others aren't just some zombies but also considered themselves to be of nobility. Bloodlines matter to them too.
My own theory all along has been the Night's King is looking for a heir that is a certain Stark before they march south for another 'Long Night'. Starks share the same mystic abilities. Bran is most adapt at it though.
Even in the show the first meeting of the Night's King, he was holding court. There is a purpose to their madness. I'm sure there is a bride waiting for Bran further up north.
Events in an episode are not always in the same timeline Â
In the past we've had scenes showing Dany do things on another continent but Varys would mention those items in Kings Landing minutes later that same episode.
Unless ravens or whispers can travel thousands of miles over bodies of water, we have so suspend that some time has passed between events to give proper time for Varys to receiving the information from another continent and relay those messages in Kings Landing....even though both scenes occurred in the same episode or the following one.
I think the travels this year with Sansa, Theon and Littlefinger follow this same assumption and scenes from the same episode are occurring at different times to account for the travel.
Speaking of Varys, no one has mentioned his scene from last night yet Â
I can't remember in the 6 seasons of this series anyone really besting Varys in a war of words like the Red Priestess did.
We finally found out why that sorcerer (Red Priest?) emasculated him, because he needed his body parts in a ritual for the Lord of the Light. Which helps explains his great disdain and bitter hatred for magic and its practitioners.
about Bran altering events with time travel in the show going forward.
Bran didn't alter the past in this episode. It's a casual loop. Wyllis was always going to become "Hodor" because Bran was always going to warg with Hodor and Meera telling him to "hold the door"
That's why it works that Hodor has been "Hodor" for the past four seasons despite Bran not going back in time until now.
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Also, for those who were fans of LOST, this episode was directed by Jack Bender who directed "The Constant" among other episodes.
RE: Events in an episode are not always in the same timeline Â
In the past we've had scenes showing Dany do things on another continent but Varys would mention those items in Kings Landing minutes later that same episode.
Unless ravens or whispers can travel thousands of miles over bodies of water, we have so suspend that some time has passed between events to give proper time for Varys to receiving the information from another continent and relay those messages in Kings Landing....even though both scenes occurred in the same episode or the following one.
I think the travels this year with Sansa, Theon and Littlefinger follow this same assumption and scenes from the same episode are occurring at different times to account for the travel.
im okay with that. But then, you have to assume that Jon comes back alive then Sansa comes then little finger comes. Which means jons been twiddling his thumbs as a reanimated person for months so tat the times can match up. That seems odd.
RE: Speaking of Varys, no one has mentioned his scene from last night yet Â
I can't remember in the 6 seasons of this series anyone really besting Varys in a war of words like the Red Priestess did.
We finally found out why that sorcerer (Red Priest?) emasculated him, because he needed his body parts in a ritual for the Lord of the Light. Which helps explains his great disdain and bitter hatred for magic and its practitioners.
Really great scene!
Great point. I don't think we've ever seen Varys flustered once. That was some surprising shit
RE: RE: Events in an episode are not always in the same timeline Â
In the past we've had scenes showing Dany do things on another continent but Varys would mention those items in Kings Landing minutes later that same episode.
Unless ravens or whispers can travel thousands of miles over bodies of water, we have so suspend that some time has passed between events to give proper time for Varys to receiving the information from another continent and relay those messages in Kings Landing....even though both scenes occurred in the same episode or the following one.
I think the travels this year with Sansa, Theon and Littlefinger follow this same assumption and scenes from the same episode are occurring at different times to account for the travel.
im okay with that. But then, you have to assume that Jon comes back alive then Sansa comes then little finger comes. Which means jons been twiddling his thumbs as a reanimated person for months so tat the times can match up. That seems odd.
I thought about this last night and I think the real key is on how long it took from Theon and Sansa jumping the wall to reaching Jon at the wall. Let's say for this exercise, it takes 3-4 weeks to travel from Winterfell to the Wall.
Let's say for the fun of putting these timelines together, here is my theory....
1 month ago
- Battle between Bolton's army and Stannis's.
- Theon and Sansa jump the wall and travel north.
- Melisandre wasn't allowed to travel with Stannis into battle, so she was camped further north of Winderfell and the battlefields. Let's say once learning of Stannis's defeat, she traveled to the wall which takes her 3 weeks.
- Littlefinger gets word from one of his spies that Sansa has fled and makes his way to the Vale.
3 weeks ago
- Theon and Sansa are still on the run but Ramsey's men are closing in.
- Brienne saves them both and Sansa continues to go north with Brienne and Podrick to reunite with Jon.
- Theon at this time parts way with Sansa and heads off to the Iron Islands.
- Ramsey kills his father and takes over as the title of Warren of the North\Lord of Winterfell.
-Little Finger arrives at the Vale and convinces Robin to send his Vale army to protect his cousin Sansa.
1 week ago
- After Rooses death, different northan houses pledge allegence to Ramsey. Lord Umber offers Rickon Stark, Osha and Shaggy's head as gifts.
- Melisandre arrives at the Wall with news Stannis lost against the Boltons and her faith shaken
- That same night, Jon gets stabbed. His friends defend his body for a day from Alliser and the other traitors. Wildlings arrive that night to restore order. Davos convinces Melisandre to bring Jon back from the dead. Estimate Jon was dead for 3 days till he was bought back.
- Theon arrives at the Iron Islands and learns of his fathers recent death. He also gives his support to his sister Yara to succeed him as Queen.
- Littlefinger and the Vale army arrive at Moat Cailin where they take control and setup camp
Current
- Sansa, Brienne and Pod arrive at the wall, where she gets reunited with Jon....who himself has only been bought back to life a few days ago and still deciding where to leave too as he can't trust the Knights Watch after they killed him.
- Littlefinger gets the message to Sansa to meet at a location close between the wall and Moat Cailin.
- Jon and Sansa gets the message from Ramsey that he's holding Rickon as a prisoner and wants Sansa back.
- Week after their fathers death, the Iron Islands hold a kingsmoot to decide their new king. Yara makes a case and Theon gives her his support. Their uncle Euron arrives and convinces them to elect him as king and build him 1000 ships to bring Dany's army and dragons to Westros. Where the Iron born will then be able to plunder, loot and take revenge on all their enemies while Dany's army takes over all.
Roughly give or take some time here and there to accurately account for the distances traveled but that should be a solid timeline.....in my opinion. =)
I keep reading of people talking about this dude, and as far as I know, I've never heard of him. So, does this mean, the only people who know about some dude named Coldhands are ONLY people who have read the book?
Makes it hard to communicate about the show when people who have read the book chime in.
The episode was full of some pretty good moments, capped off with the Hodor/time reveal, but I really hope the story doesn't start revolving around altering time.
I agree, I'm fine as a one off thing. But it adds another layer of complexity to an already complex show if it's going to be recurring.
Also, what value does knowing the Children of the Forest creating the White Walkers add? Is there something more to that?
And fuck Bran.
It's like having a big epic end with "it was all a dream!"
Cmon maaaaan.
Minor annoyance of mine is the sudden rates of travel. People are getting around much more quickly.
Minor annoyance of mine is the sudden rates of travel. People are getting around much more quickly.
You answered your own question. The rates of travel alone shows me things are being sped up because it all needs to fit; why else do it? We used to have subplots during someone's journey from Winterfell to the Wall, and that just hasn't happened much, if at all this season.
I don't know why people get offended or need some info on others thinking the show is being rushed.
Just saw ten minutes of a Shakespearean play, Jorah leaving for the 3rd time, another Red Lady making a speech, Jon doing nothing but finally mounting his horse, etc.
The reason so much time was spent on the Kingroad in Season 1 was that the show needed to acquaint a new audience with the time, place and characters. Did you really want another five-episode meander through the countryside with Brienne and Pod?
The story is best with pinches of supernatural fantasy here and there with a consistent focus on the strengths and flaws of human character, especially in positions of power. I'm not digging these Children of the Forest. They look lame, act lame, and (so far) serve a lame purpose in the storyline.
What were the rules of the smoke baby that killed Renly? I'd argue that was an infinitely larger crock of horseshit than this. That was the only way Stannis could defeat Renly.
Just saw ten minutes of a Shakespearean play, Jorah leaving for the 3rd time, another Red Lady making a speech, Jon doing nothing but finally mounting his horse, etc.
Well its based on plenty, but this is a no spoilers thread. Not sure what to tell you, i think its being rushed, why do you even care?
Quote:
Nothing's changed with the source content, and the length of the series is the same( unlike Rome, who had to condense the 2nd and 3rd season into one).
Just saw ten minutes of a Shakespearean play, Jorah leaving for the 3rd time, another Red Lady making a speech, Jon doing nothing but finally mounting his horse, etc.
Well its based on plenty, but this is a no spoilers thread. Not sure what to tell you, i think its being rushed, why do you even care?
You keep stating it for a fact, don't understand why. It could've been outlined seven years ago exactly as it's unfolding now.
Some plotlines are being ridiculously sped through. You can make an argument that its because it only needs 2-5 minutes to get the point across, or you can argue that its just to move the story along.
As for the show, i'm most interested in what Littlefinger does. After barely being on it, and now being thrown back into it with what I thought was a neutering by Sansa, I hope he backstabs her since she should have killed him. She left an opening and I hope he takes it. His little screen time needs to be beefed up. The way he delivered the news of Riverrun and Jon being her "Half Brother" was kinda weak. I'm ithing for an epic scene with him.
I'm also interested in what Theon/Asha will be doing with the Iron Fleet. Race to Mereen perhaps? Or will the go north and try to take the north?
I would be surprised and very disappointed if the writers decide to wrap up the story lines by time traveling back to say: stop the white walkers from being created or stop Ned Stark from being executed or stop the Red wedding….etc.
I trust they know that once is a clever cinematic devise, twice is a cheap trick and beneath the quality of GoT.
Maybe they're just skipping the travelling itself. Tyrion had mentioned weeks had past since their meeting with the masters.
And any guesses to how long it takes the 47 citizens of Pyke to build 1,000 ships? My guess is by episode 8, and somehow, they will also catch up to Theon.
Some plotlines are being ridiculously sped through. You can make an argument that its because it only needs 2-5 minutes to get the point across, or you can argue that its just to move the story along.
So why should I care what you think? You're the one beating the same sad story every week. I could use your same rationale in reverse. I've given you direct quotes from the writers saying the original intention was to have seven television seasons to match seven books. We know for a almost certainty that after season 6 is over we are likely getting 14-15 episodes instead of 10. For the idiots at home, that means we are getting MORE.
You dont agree? GREAT. For the rest of us that love this season, and feel the pace is fantastic, we dont need you berating the same crap week after week.
And any guesses to how long it takes the 47 citizens of Pyke to build 1,000 ships? My guess is by episode 8, and somehow, they will also catch up to Theon.
Quote:
this entire thread is people's opinion, why is this any different? Multiple people I work with think the same as me(especially after this most recent episode aired, some non book readers) and others don't, they don't jump at my throat asking me to prove my point, so I don't see why its being done now.
Some plotlines are being ridiculously sped through. You can make an argument that its because it only needs 2-5 minutes to get the point across, or you can argue that its just to move the story along.
So why should I care what you think? You're the one beating the same sad story every week. I could use your same rationale in reverse. I've given you direct quotes from the writers saying the original intention was to have seven television seasons to match seven books. We know for a almost certainty that after season 6 is over we are likely getting 14-15 episodes instead of 10. For the idiots at home, that means we are getting MORE.
You dont agree? GREAT. For the rest of us that love this season, and feel the pace is fantastic, we dont need you berating the same crap week after week.
Perfect, and feel free to ignore me, or start a non-UConn4523 thread, either works for me.
Me thinking the story is rushed is no different than thinking Jon kills Ramsay, or Sansa is pregnant, or really anything else. The only difference is you are taking it as a slight against a show you think has little or no flaws at all.
IMO, if I'm allowed to still have one, this show was at its very peak when the pieces were being set and the game's moves were being made. With the end in sight we are getting less of the game which is naturally going to happen, but for me, its not as compelling.
Except Littlefinger doesn't decide to travel until word of Sansa Stark making it to the Castle Black reaches him.
The reason so much time was spent on the Kingroad in Season 1 was that the show needed to acquaint a new audience with the time, place and characters. Did you really want another five-episode meander through the countryside with Brienne and Pod?
Yea, I only mentioned the Kingsroad bit to show how long it takes to travel via land. A line or two or a visual cue to show the passage of time would suffice. It's been done before.
The show makes it seem like Littlefinger showed up a week after Sansa did, especially since they just started planning their next course of action in the ensuring scene at Castle Black.
I expect more teleportation. After Euron builds 1000 ships with sailing crews, he'll need some way to magically appear in Meereen.
I think you have to just sort of accept that point and not focus to much on the travel times as different characters interact with each other.
You keep saying they're accelerating the pacing to fit in the story, as though they're cancelling episodes and compacting the timeline.
And your disappointment in book Littlefinger vs HBO's portrayal seems a bit out of place.
Unless you really want scenes of people riding along a trail on horseback for mile after mile. This is like the Walking Dead threads where people say they want to see people scrounging for supplies. Sure, maybe it's compelling to see someone siphoning a a couple of Buicks for some people. But for most? Not so much...
Personally I don't think the story is being rushed. I think it is settling into a proper groove after being a little too deliberate before. Whether they were stalling for time for Martin to write or whatever, I think it's at a good pace now.
Unless you really want scenes of people riding along a trail on horseback for mile after mile. This is like the Walking Dead threads where people say they want to see people scrounging for supplies. Sure, maybe it's compelling to see someone siphoning a a couple of Buicks for some people. But for most? Not so much...
I agree, I think the pacing is great.
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... and could travel openly during the day, Sansa, Brienne and Pod could probably reach Castle Black (6-700 miles north of Winterfell) in well under a month - say three weeks. In the meantime, Littlefinger has sailed up to Runestone to visit Royce and Robin, then continued up the coast - probably to near Eastwatch - and then inland to Mole's Town for their rendezvous. Considering the progress Arya and Bran have made in their training, and the density of developments in King's Landing and the Dothraki Sea, I don't think the pace of travel is that improbable.
Except Littlefinger doesn't decide to travel until word of Sansa Stark making it to the Castle Black reaches him.
I don't think they got word she was at Castle Black. He got word that she fled Winterfell and he suspected that she would head to Castle Black.
Plus, Littlefinger could travel by sea up the east coast, roughly from the Vale ports to Eastwatch. He would figure to make very good time as long as the weather held up.
The more important logistical question is whether Royce has actually mobilized the Vale, and where the Knights are encamped. It would take a lot longer to march an army from Gulltown to Winterfell than it would for Baelish to sail up to Eastwatch and cross to Mole's Town.
I don't think Baelish will double-cross the Starks again. It's a much better twist at this point if he doesn't do anything devious.
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I don't think they got word she was at Castle Black. He got word that she fled Winterfell and he suspected that she would head to Castle Black.
Plus, Littlefinger could travel by sea up the east coast, roughly from the Vale ports to Eastwatch. He would figure to make very good time as long as the weather held up.
The more important logistical question is whether Royce has actually mobilized the Vale, and where the Knights are encamped. It would take a lot longer to march an army from Gulltown to Winterfell than it would for Baelish to sail up to Eastwatch and cross to Mole's Town.
I don't think Baelish will double-cross the Starks again. It's a much better twist at this point if he doesn't do anything devious.
Littlefinger said he "rode north with the Knights of the Vale to come to your aid. They're encamped at Moat Cailin as we speak." So likely they rode north and took Moat Cailin and then perhaps he took a boat to east watch.
Assuming Littlefinger is telling the truth, taking Moat Cailin is a big deal. It was held by the Boltons and Freys, and was the prize that got Ramsay legitimized. If the Lords of the Vale have taken it from him, they are already committed to the war in the North. I guess they could simply stop and consolidate their gains, or head southwest and encircle the Freys at The Twins. Either way, they are in it.
2) The man who was stabbed and became the king white walker - do we know who he is, or is it speculation at this point?
3) The hodor thing was a bit confusing, but I guess it will get explained as the show goes along. Is bran "changing" the past? Or is the present and past linked, and occurring simultaneously? The fact that up into this point he has only said the word "hodor," means that Bran warging into him happened in the future..
The man stab is not the Night's King. The Night's King according to Old Nan's lore was rumored to be a Stark. People forget that the Others aren't just some zombies but also considered themselves to be of nobility. Bloodlines matter to them too.
My own theory all along has been the Night's King is looking for a heir that is a certain Stark before they march south for another 'Long Night'. Starks share the same mystic abilities. Bran is most adapt at it though.
Even in the show the first meeting of the Night's King, he was holding court. There is a purpose to their madness. I'm sure there is a bride waiting for Bran further up north.
Unless ravens or whispers can travel thousands of miles over bodies of water, we have so suspend that some time has passed between events to give proper time for Varys to receiving the information from another continent and relay those messages in Kings Landing....even though both scenes occurred in the same episode or the following one.
I think the travels this year with Sansa, Theon and Littlefinger follow this same assumption and scenes from the same episode are occurring at different times to account for the travel.
We finally found out why that sorcerer (Red Priest?) emasculated him, because he needed his body parts in a ritual for the Lord of the Light. Which helps explains his great disdain and bitter hatred for magic and its practitioners.
Really great scene!
Bran didn't alter the past in this episode. It's a casual loop. Wyllis was always going to become "Hodor" because Bran was always going to warg with Hodor and Meera telling him to "hold the door"
That's why it works that Hodor has been "Hodor" for the past four seasons despite Bran not going back in time until now.
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Also, for those who were fans of LOST, this episode was directed by Jack Bender who directed "The Constant" among other episodes.
Unless ravens or whispers can travel thousands of miles over bodies of water, we have so suspend that some time has passed between events to give proper time for Varys to receiving the information from another continent and relay those messages in Kings Landing....even though both scenes occurred in the same episode or the following one.
I think the travels this year with Sansa, Theon and Littlefinger follow this same assumption and scenes from the same episode are occurring at different times to account for the travel.
We finally found out why that sorcerer (Red Priest?) emasculated him, because he needed his body parts in a ritual for the Lord of the Light. Which helps explains his great disdain and bitter hatred for magic and its practitioners.
Really great scene!
Great point. I don't think we've ever seen Varys flustered once. That was some surprising shit
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In the past we've had scenes showing Dany do things on another continent but Varys would mention those items in Kings Landing minutes later that same episode.
Unless ravens or whispers can travel thousands of miles over bodies of water, we have so suspend that some time has passed between events to give proper time for Varys to receiving the information from another continent and relay those messages in Kings Landing....even though both scenes occurred in the same episode or the following one.
I think the travels this year with Sansa, Theon and Littlefinger follow this same assumption and scenes from the same episode are occurring at different times to account for the travel.
im okay with that. But then, you have to assume that Jon comes back alive then Sansa comes then little finger comes. Which means jons been twiddling his thumbs as a reanimated person for months so tat the times can match up. That seems odd.
I thought about this last night and I think the real key is on how long it took from Theon and Sansa jumping the wall to reaching Jon at the wall. Let's say for this exercise, it takes 3-4 weeks to travel from Winterfell to the Wall.
Let's say for the fun of putting these timelines together, here is my theory....
1 month ago
- Battle between Bolton's army and Stannis's.
- Theon and Sansa jump the wall and travel north.
- Melisandre wasn't allowed to travel with Stannis into battle, so she was camped further north of Winderfell and the battlefields. Let's say once learning of Stannis's defeat, she traveled to the wall which takes her 3 weeks.
- Littlefinger gets word from one of his spies that Sansa has fled and makes his way to the Vale.
3 weeks ago
- Theon and Sansa are still on the run but Ramsey's men are closing in.
- Brienne saves them both and Sansa continues to go north with Brienne and Podrick to reunite with Jon.
- Theon at this time parts way with Sansa and heads off to the Iron Islands.
- Ramsey kills his father and takes over as the title of Warren of the North\Lord of Winterfell.
-Little Finger arrives at the Vale and convinces Robin to send his Vale army to protect his cousin Sansa.
1 week ago
- After Rooses death, different northan houses pledge allegence to Ramsey. Lord Umber offers Rickon Stark, Osha and Shaggy's head as gifts.
- Melisandre arrives at the Wall with news Stannis lost against the Boltons and her faith shaken
- That same night, Jon gets stabbed. His friends defend his body for a day from Alliser and the other traitors. Wildlings arrive that night to restore order. Davos convinces Melisandre to bring Jon back from the dead. Estimate Jon was dead for 3 days till he was bought back.
- Theon arrives at the Iron Islands and learns of his fathers recent death. He also gives his support to his sister Yara to succeed him as Queen.
- Littlefinger and the Vale army arrive at Moat Cailin where they take control and setup camp
Current
- Sansa, Brienne and Pod arrive at the wall, where she gets reunited with Jon....who himself has only been bought back to life a few days ago and still deciding where to leave too as he can't trust the Knights Watch after they killed him.
- Littlefinger gets the message to Sansa to meet at a location close between the wall and Moat Cailin.
- Jon and Sansa gets the message from Ramsey that he's holding Rickon as a prisoner and wants Sansa back.
- Week after their fathers death, the Iron Islands hold a kingsmoot to decide their new king. Yara makes a case and Theon gives her his support. Their uncle Euron arrives and convinces them to elect him as king and build him 1000 ships to bring Dany's army and dragons to Westros. Where the Iron born will then be able to plunder, loot and take revenge on all their enemies while Dany's army takes over all.
Roughly give or take some time here and there to accurately account for the distances traveled but that should be a solid timeline.....in my opinion. =)
Makes it hard to communicate about the show when people who have read the book chime in.