NFT: Mets and Nats Game 2 Mets chat 5/24

Not going to make the same mistake I made last week and say I have any feeling about Harvey tonight... just going to cross my fingers and keep hoping it clicks and he turns it around.

If he has another bad one tonight I think they'll shut him down for a couple weeks. Let's hope that's not the case.

we all need it

and we end up sweeping those fucks sending them into a tailspin.

If not?

Well. We'll still have a good shot at 2 of 3.

to field some groundballs..

I'd be ok with Rivera a s the defensive catcher and TDA as our new first baseman.

Should I buy low on Harvey?

In comment 12969038 CMicks3110 said:

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Should I buy low on Harvey?

Considering Gordon's ban, definitely.

last night's beatdown happening, but glad it did. Winning Colon @ Gio totally flips the expectations for this series. Really solid chance now at winning 2 out of 3, and maybe we can get greedy if NYM can win tonight.

Cespedes is playing like an MVP candidate. Glad that they kept him. Also nice to see some pop out of Walker and Wright. We're going to need both of them with Duda and TDA down for a while.

I really hope Harvey pitches well tonight. I'm not sure I can stand another dramatic media cycle breaking down his struggles.

love to see the Mets be proactive and talk to Cespedes soon. The guy is fucking amazing. It's now enough sample size for me to believe that at worst he's "very good all-star" status and closer to a true superstar. He's been "best offensive Met ever" level good as a member of the Mets (97 games).

If so, please post. Thanks in advance.

By rights, he should've signed for $25m a year somewhere.

Yeah, I'm going to be disappointed if the Mets don't make a serious effort to get Cespedes locked up. He's a star and he looks like he's found his home here.

on with Cespedes. He cant possibly stay at this torrid pace forever right? The guy has never once in his career shown anything even close to this kind of ability.

I wanted Cespedes at the deadline more than anyone but this is absolutely mind boggling.

Trevor Plouffe offensively to Mike Trout over night.

In comment 12969060 arcarsenal said:

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Yeah, I'm going to be disappointed if the Mets don't make a serious effort to get Cespedes locked up. He's a star and he looks like he's found his home here.

This. Happiness at work will increase performance.

In comment 12969070 ZGiants98 said:

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on with Cespedes. He cant possibly stay at this torrid pace forever right? The guy has never once in his career shown anything even close to this kind of ability. I wanted Cespedes at the deadline more than anyone but this is absolutely mind boggling.

while he has performed above his ability. Certain players like him thrive in the limelight. Some guys get that extra boost playing in big cities and big crowds. Cespedes seems to be one of those guys.

He has always had huge amounts of talent but it was staying focused and pitch selection that was holding him back. I think he has made huge strides in terms of laying of the high fastball. He knows he can't hit it so even if it is a strike from time to time he is just laying off that pitch. He still fishes for bad breaking balls in the dirt but laying off the high fastball is going to draw him a lot more walks and give him better pitches to hit which will improve all his career #'s.

In comment 12969050 DanMetroMan said:

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love to see the Mets be proactive and talk to Cespedes soon. The guy is fucking amazing. It's now enough sample size for me to believe that at worst he's "very good all-star" status and closer to a true superstar. He's been "best offensive Met ever" level good as a member of the Mets (97 games).

Yeah - I think we can move past the notion that his amazing run last season was just a hot streak. Maybe he won't be hitting at this current pace (32 HRs in 97 games with the Mets), but he's good for at least 32-40 HRs a year. On top of that, he embraces (and excels in) the limelight in a way that guys like Piazza or Reyes did (and unlike Beltran who met with reluctance). Unfortunately, I'm still skeptical that the Mets will offer him anything more than 3-4 years and I can see other teams coming in and giving him 5+.

But wouldn't it behoove the Mets to see what he does in the playoffs this year (provided they make it) before locking him up long term?

And Im not suggesting Long is some miracle worker, but Cespedes OBP is the highest its ever been. He is walking a lot more. Considering Long's(organization?) whole thing is "hunting for pitches", ect I have to think its rubbed off on him some.

agree. He comes up in huge spots. He has a flair for the dramatic. Yeah he's not quite Bryce Harper or Mike Trout or Manny Machado but if you had an MVP vote today he'd be in the mix. While he may be peaking later than some it wouldn't be the first time that has ever happened (Jose Bautista to name one).

We still dont know if he is the type of guy that will not try as hard if given a longer contract. Maybe this production is directly related to him playing "balls out" to get that next big contract. IMO, this is playing out exactly how Sandy wants.

Im thrilled. Some people "arrive" later then others, but Im still a tad cautious. He still hasn't done it over a full year yet and has had a career of streakiness.

I just hope an 0 for a month isn't on the horizon. Fans would lose their shit I think. Expectations have been raised beyond belief.

In comment 12969089 gmen9892 said:

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But wouldn't it behoove the Mets to see what he does in the playoffs this year (provided they make it) before locking him up long term?

Nope. You don't judge a player based on a minuscule sample size vs. everything he has done to get you there. A-Rod is a career .259 post-season hitter, David Wright .198.

In comment 12969100 ZGiants98 said:

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Im thrilled. Some people "arrive" later then others, but Im still a tad cautious. He still hasn't done it over a full year yet and has had a career of streakiness. I just hope an 0 for a month isn't on the horizon. Fans would lose their shit I think. Expectations have been raised beyond belief.

A 3.5 fWAR Cespedes is worth essentially 25 million per in todays market. He'd have to really tank beyond belief to not be worth a monster salary. The years/age are always a concern but if that's the case you will never sign/retain superstars.

In comment 12969089 gmen9892 said:

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But wouldn't it behoove the Mets to see what he does in the playoffs this year (provided they make it) before locking him up long term?

I don't think you can base decisions on what a player is if you put too much stock in the limited samples of playoffs games. It's part of the evaluation, but the 5-600 at bats during the regular season tells the story, not the 16-20 at bats you get in a series. You might not come up with a full roster if you only wanted to sign a team with standout playoff performance numbers.

with Houston, Beltran had one of the best post-seasons in history (my assumption). 8 HR's and 14 RBI in 12 games. he batted .435 with a 1.55 OPS.

I don't think he was reluctant at all.

He has a career 1.115 playoff OPS.

Nor am I a mets hater (except when they play the Yanks) I have always liked Harvey and thought that he was a legit top 5 Ace until this year. I know that he had TJ in 2014 but he has regressed so much this year (even compared to last season when he came back).

He is just terrible this year. He is a pitching liability for the Mets right now. I am not so sure that its going to get better any time soon.

Now Thor, DeGrom and Matz are all top notch.

Thanks for the groundbreaking analysis.

Wright post-season .198/.311/.319 over 106 PA's
Yoenis Cespedes .277/.303/.426 over 99 PA's.

In comment 12969111 superspynyg said:

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Nor am I a mets hater (except when they play the Yanks) I have always liked Harvey and thought that he was a legit top 5 Ace until this year. I know that he had TJ in 2014 but he has regressed so much this year (even compared to last season when he came back). He is just terrible this year. He is a pitching liability for the Mets right now. I am not so sure that its going to get better any time soon. Now Thor, DeGrom and Matz are all top notch.

DeGrom is going through the same thing. His ERA is misleading. This has happened to many starters before. Strasburg this time last year was a carbon copy of 2016 Harvey. I think both of these guys will regain their forms even if it happens in 2017. I think they pitched too many innings last year personally.

In comment 12969120 DanMetroMan said:

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Wright post-season .198/.311/.319 over 106 PA's Yoenis Cespedes .277/.303/.426 over 99 PA's.

I think DW is a bad comparison. Hes never really been a clutch hitter IMO. I guess that works against my argument, but I would preferably like to have my best players perform well when I need them the most. I love Yo, and I hope he signs back and stays with this team for the rest of his career. I just would like to see him play out this season before we go reworking a contract that Sandy just gave him.

he's the type of guy where he needs to feel welcome and loved. It's not like he wasn't loved in other places but its possible he wasnt so quickly embraced by teammates and fans like New York did. Ever since he's joined the Mets, according to the fangraphs article i posted yesterday, he's been playing like a 7 war player. Only 5 hitters last season were 7 war or above, that's a superstar.

In comment 12969125 gmen9892 said:

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In comment 12969120 DanMetroMan said: Quote: Wright post-season .198/.311/.319 over 106 PA's Yoenis Cespedes .277/.303/.426 over 99 PA's. I think DW is a bad comparison. Hes never really been a clutch hitter IMO. I guess that works against my argument, but I would preferably like to have my best players perform well when I need them the most. I love Yo, and I hope he signs back and stays with this team for the rest of his career. I just would like to see him play out this season before we go reworking a contract that Sandy just gave him.

Thing is, we don't really have time to just let the year play out and evaluate it after.. there's no way he's opting into the last 2 years if the deal we gave him and if he keeps hitting like this, someone else is going to throw him 7 years and close to 200M.

In comment 12969125 gmen9892 said:

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In comment 12969120 DanMetroMan said: Quote: Wright post-season .198/.311/.319 over 106 PA's Yoenis Cespedes .277/.303/.426 over 99 PA's. I think DW is a bad comparison. Hes never really been a clutch hitter IMO. I guess that works against my argument, but I would preferably like to have my best players perform well when I need them the most. I love Yo, and I hope he signs back and stays with this team for the rest of his career. I just would like to see him play out this season before we go reworking a contract that Sandy just gave him.

"Clutch hitter" ignores everything a player does to get you to that point. Cespedes is a career .277 playoff hitter. In 2 ALDS series with the A's he hit .350 with a .920 OPS. There is absolutely nothing to suggest this is some guy who fails under pressure. As for "reworking". He's the one who would be doing the Mets the "favor". He's opting out after the year, Sandy "reworking" the deal wouldn't be out of the kindness of his heart, it would be the Mets trying to retain a great player before he hits the market (maybe the worst FA market in the last 10+ years).

In comment 12969129 sshin05 said:

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he's the type of guy where he needs to feel welcome and loved. It's not like he wasn't loved in other places but its possible he wasnt so quickly embraced by teammates and fans like New York did. Ever since he's joined the Mets, according to the fangraphs article i posted yesterday, he's been playing like a 7 war player. Only 5 hitters last season were 7 war or above, that's a superstar.

That's what Im saying. Im still not sure he's going to maintain it but he's playing like one of the best players in the game right now. Especially offensively.

In comment 12969131 arcarsenal said:

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In comment 12969125 gmen9892 said: Quote: In comment 12969120 DanMetroMan said: Quote: Wright post-season .198/.311/.319 over 106 PA's Yoenis Cespedes .277/.303/.426 over 99 PA's. I think DW is a bad comparison. Hes never really been a clutch hitter IMO. I guess that works against my argument, but I would preferably like to have my best players perform well when I need them the most. I love Yo, and I hope he signs back and stays with this team for the rest of his career. I just would like to see him play out this season before we go reworking a contract that Sandy just gave him. Thing is, we don't really have time to just let the year play out and evaluate it after.. there's no way he's opting into the last 2 years if the deal we gave him and if he keeps hitting like this, someone else is going to throw him 7 years and close to 200M.

I agree on that part. Its just so hard to evaluate at this point. I feel that one of the reasons why Sandy gave him the short deal was the fear of his work ethic if given a long deal. Which could be one of his biggest motivations this year to play well, to get that next big contract. I hope Sandy can work something out, but I am not sure if he will at such an early juncture, especially after JUST giving him this contract.

Andy Martino 3 minutes ago
Mets aren't typically big on reunions but Ike Davis is hitting 274/.364/.512 for AAA Round Rock

In comment 12969109 pjcas18 said:

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with Houston, Beltran had one of the best post-seasons in history (my assumption). 8 HR's and 14 RBI in 12 games. he batted .435 with a 1.55 OPS. I don't think he was reluctant at all. He has a career 1.115 playoff OPS.

I didn't mean so much that he wasn't clutch. Carlos had some great years here, but I always felt like he was not the most comfortable in the spotlight. Guys like Piazza and Ces deal with it in a way that galvanizes a team and its fanbase.

He is going to get a huge monster contract either way. I don't think he's giving us a break just because it's "in-season". Maybe if he went into a brutal cold streak and he started doubting himself I guess.

I think Baseball is one of the few sports where New York has a bit of an advantage over many other cities in how it's a great landing spot and comfort zone for hispanic culture.

42 PA's in the playoffs .200 hitter
Trout 1-12 (.083)
Future HOFer Robinson Cano 217 PA's .222 average
Future 1st ballot HOFer Miguel Cabrera .278 career post-season hitter 235 PA's

You are talking about such a small sample size spread over X season that a player is 2-3 games away from having excellent numbers in the post season.

I think the Mets biggest fear with Cespedes is his age.

In comment 12969139 sphinx said:

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Andy Martino 3 minutes ago Mets aren't typically big on reunions but Ike Davis is hitting 274/.364/.512 for AAA Round Rock

I'd be stunned. They didn't care for Ike's attitude. Also for context his wRC+ is lower than Brandon Nimmo's (would be good for 31st in the PCL if qualified), 31st in wOBA as well

for deGrom and Harvey. I also think they threw too many innings but when you are a sniff away from a WS title, you have to just live with it. There is nothing they could or should have done differently last season.

If I'm not mistaken, when asked, Bochy responded to a question about the Giants winning on a one year on, one year off basis by saying that the pitching staff just does not rebound well after throwing until early November. I'm not an expert but this makes sense to me.

The good news is Matz and Thor should be unaffected by this and we still have Wheeler returning. This is the really nice part about having a rotation of 5 top end talents.

In comment 12969151 DanMetroMan said:

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42 PA's in the playoffs .200 hitter Trout 1-12 (.083) Future HOFer Robinson Cano 217 PA's .222 average Future 1st ballot HOFer Miguel Cabrera .278 career post-season hitter 235 PA's You are talking about such a small sample size spread over X season that a player is 2-3 games away from having excellent numbers in the post season.

Fair enough. I dropped the whole postseason argument. You win on that. I still think the main reason for the short-term deal was less about performance, and more about personality/work ethic. Why else would Yo not have gotten a huge deal that seem to be getting thrown around with such regularity now 'n days? I think that was always Sandy's trepidation, and Im not sure if his stance has changed in that regard. But thats just pure speculation on my part.

In comment 12969139 sphinx said:

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Andy Martino 3 minutes ago Mets aren't typically big on reunions but Ike Davis is hitting 274/.364/.512 for AAA Round Rock

Please no, we talk about slumps on here all the time, but very few players in my Mets fandom history have looked as bad as Ike Davis when he was off. and the word from the beat writers were he was not very coachable when mired in a slump - plus he was supposed to be solid defensively and I didn't see that with him.

Sayonara. good riddance. stay gone and nurse yourself back from valley fever.

they have been pretty darn good from top to bottom
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 12969158 Chris684 said:

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for deGrom and Harvey. I also think they threw too many innings but when you are a sniff away from a WS title, you have to just live with it. There is nothing they could or should have done differently last season. If I'm not mistaken, when asked, Bochy responded to a question about the Giants winning on a one year on, one year off basis by saying that the pitching staff just does not rebound well after throwing until early November. I'm not an expert but this makes sense to me. The good news is Matz and Thor should be unaffected by this and we still have Wheeler returning. This is the really nice part about having a rotation of 5 top end talents.

Yes and its why Im not eager to trade any of them away. Guys will have down years. Guys will get hurt. Even if just one of Harvey/deGrom gets it going again by the time the year is out we still likely have an awesome top 4 for the playoffs. The chances of all 5 dominating and healthy every year just in time for the postseason are probably slim to none.

In comment 12969164 sshin05 said:

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they have been pretty darn good from top to bottom Link - ( New Window )

Best in baseball baby. Really its not even close. ERA, FIP, and WAR.

for Carson Smith, blow to the Red Sox

I wonder how that's working out for him.