Yankee Talk 5-24

we traded away top talent for established players.

the Cards, but we're also picking way down in the draft more often than not, so have less of a chance at top talent than some teams (although the Cards might not be the best example for that).

Seems to me that players in our farm system sort of die on the vine as they reach AAA, but the jump to the majors is where you separate the wheat from the chaff, so that's not too surprising to me.

In comment 12969085 yatqb said:
[quote] the Cards, but we're also picking way down in the draft more often than not, so have less of a chance at top talent than some teams (although the Cards might not be the best example for that).

Seems to me that players in our farm system sort of die on the vine as they reach AAA, but the jump to the majors is where you separate the wheat from the chaff, so that's not too surprising to me. [/quotet]

The Cards are ALWAYS at the bottom since they are always in the playoffs.

But what they haven't been able to do is develop everyday stars (as opposed to relievers like Robertson or Betances). The last true star the system produced was Cano a decade ago. Same thing with starting pitching - Wang that same year was their last homegrown plus starter.

In comment 12969106 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

But what they haven't been able to do is develop everyday stars (as opposed to relievers like Robertson or Betances). The last true star the system produced was Cano a decade ago. Same thing with starting pitching - Wang that same year was their last homegrown plus starter.

Then is the problem more scouting than development?

The Mets, Royals or Cubs are bad comps because those teams were horrible for half a decade or more to accumulate high picks. Cards, Giants, Red Sox have all been much more successful than the Yankees with a similar talent pool. The Red Sox in particular have embarrassed the Yankees in the past decade when it comes to player development. But I believe that's a function of organizational structure from ownership down to scouting. The Red Sox had their own disfunction and power struggles but nothing like the way the Yankees are run.

But outside of letting the burdensome big contracts - Tex, CC, A-Rod - expire, I think we should try to secure as many current players as we can. Chapman is the one piece that I could understand trading... But I really hope we try our best to sign him long term.

We have players who can fill in for the big contract players who will be leaving. Bird for Tex, Kaprelian for CC... then we have Refsnyder and guys like Judge, Sanchez and Mateo who will be up sooner rather than later.

If just 2 of those young guys pan out and we keep Didi, Castro, Gardner and Ellsbury... We can address the other three lineup spots, and get a starting pitcher or two, with all this money coming off the books.

But back to the bullpen - I think the Yankees have something extremely special in Betances, Miller and Chapman. With Miller and Betances under our control for another few years - what we do with Chapman will be hugely important. I don't think we should trade him for any player, unless A) the player is of a caliber we won't be able to acquire via free agency this year or next; or B) we are confident we'll be able to sign Chapman when his deal expires at the end of the year.

Relievers like Chapman do not come around often. Bullpens like Betances-Miller-Chapman come around less often.

I just meant hang onto. I'm not advocating for giving any current players new money, outside of Chapman.

In comment 12969124 arniefez said:

Quote:

The Mets, Royals or Cubs are bad comps because those teams were horrible for half a decade or more to accumulate high picks. Cards, Giants, Red Sox have all been much more successful than the Yankees with a similar talent pool. The Red Sox in particular have embarrassed the Yankees in the past decade when it comes to player development. But I believe that's a function of organizational structure from ownership down to scouting. The Red Sox had their own disfunction and power struggles but nothing like the way the Yankees are run.

Maybe true, but Sox overrate their prospects as much as anyone in the leagye. Will Middlebrooks and Daniel Bard? Shaking in my boots!

with some talk of the Yankees. Confirms he would have taken 8 years 200 million, but the Yankees held to 7 years, and opted for Ellsbury instead. Wonderful...
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In comment 12969208 mac attack said:

Quote:

In comment 12969124 arniefez said: Quote: The Mets, Royals or Cubs are bad comps because those teams were horrible for half a decade or more to accumulate high picks. Cards, Giants, Red Sox have all been much more successful than the Yankees with a similar talent pool. The Red Sox in particular have embarrassed the Yankees in the past decade when it comes to player development. But I believe that's a function of organizational structure from ownership down to scouting. The Red Sox had their own disfunction and power struggles but nothing like the way the Yankees are run. Maybe true, but Sox overrate their prospects as much as anyone in the leagye. Will Middlebrooks and Daniel Bard? Shaking in my boots!

How about Bogerts, Bradley, Moncada, and Shaw!!

in the last five years (the World Series year). Let's not anoint them the model just yet. They haven't developed a starting pitcher of consequence since Lester. And part of the reason their farm is stocked now - and it is, no getting around that - is that they've picked high for most of the last several years because they've sucked for most of the last several years. Moncada we have the gardener to thank. Bogaerts, Betts and Bradley (assuming the latter is not just a fluke this time) are attributable to their development team. Frankly Bradley is attributable to the fact that they suck as much as they do, because he never would have gotten the reps to turn it around if he was on the Yankees (or the Cards, or the Giants).

that includes video of him wielding his cannon of an OF arm (a reminder that he hit mid-90's and was scouted as a pitcher coming out of HS).
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and will have a short rehab assignment at Trenton instead.

and at this point of their careers Beltran is probably a better option. How long can they leave Arod in AA?

Because the guy's minor league production was nothing to write home about. Out of nowhere he becomes a big slugger in MLB??

it's all about trying to "buy" a World Series ring.....

How did this team get those rings, in the 90's? Who were the key players? They have developed no one in recent history....

as for:
We certainly haven't developed players as consistently as a team like
yatqb : 9:53 am : link : reply
the Cards, but we're also picking way down in the draft more often than not, so have less of a chance at top talent than some teams (although the Cards might not be the best example for that).

Just look at it like this: they blew their first round pick.....so when they pick their first round pick, instead, they have the #1 pick, from the second round on....still doesn't help them....

In comment 12969379 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

Because the guy's minor league production was nothing to write home about. Out of nowhere he becomes a big slugger in MLB??

Could say the same about Cano

Cano at AA, age 20-21: .298/.357/.455
Cano at AAA, age 21-22: .284/.333/.460

Shaw at AA, age 23-24: .242/.359/.436
Shaw at AAA, age 24-25: .256/.319/.395

Cano easily outproduced Shaw while being three years younger at the same levels. Somehow Shaw has hit .285/.347/.505 out of nowhere in MLB.

rolling over the scouting staff for seveal years and expanding it. They started the development reboot when they replaced Newman with Denbo. They also added new managers, and coaches, as well as an analytics department for the minors. They also re-did their facilities in Tampa and the DR. So, the changes are already happening, the results just haven't shown up yet. And some of the young players, who've experienced only the new system, haven't started playing yet this year.

Where the system is now screwy has to do with the forfeiture of picks through free agency, and Hal's adherence to "budgets" for the draft and IFA even before the rules changes. Otherwise, the scouts have done a great job under those conditions.

when i said the Yankees real issues are the way their run as an organization. Hal and his siblings and their spouses, Levine, Trost and Cashman, etc. all fighting for power.

In the Steinbrenner era, a period of over 40 years, I count only six good or ok starting pitchers to come out the Yankee farm that pitched primarily for the Yankees.

Six.
The lucky winners are Ron Guidry, Scott Kamienieki, Andy Pettite, Chien Ming Wang, Phil Hughes and Ivan Nova. I'm not even sure Guidry should count since he was a relief pitcher in the minors.

Another 8 good or OK pitchers came up but primarily pitched for other teams.
Scott McGregor, Doc Medich, Jim Deshailes, Doug Drabek, Al Lieter, Brian Boehringer and Ted Lilly.

To add insult to injury out of those 8, only one brought back decent value when they left the Yankee system, Doc Medich who was traded for Willie Randolph.

When you look at teams like the Mets, A's, Giants, Cards, Tampa Bay that churn out pitcher after pitcher, its a wonder that we could scrape together a staff via free agency and trades that allowed us to finish over .500 , much less win. I'm not sure , but I think even the fucking Red Sox have done better over the same period

Didn't come from the Yankee farm. And I think you left Sterling Hitchcock and a few others off the list.