...the sheer volume of quality songs is simply baffling - the way they evolved, defining writing, arranging, recording techniques is beyond anything before or since. Lennon and McCartney drove each other - there's a book out there - Beatle recording sessions that highlights life at Abbey are in those years, just about every week one or both John and Paul would introduce another classic... The fact that Harrison's material became a force toward the end just really eliminates any competition from consideration for me... Fwiw, I'd rank Lennon slightly ahead of Paul as a songwriter.
...the sheer volume of quality songs is simply baffling - the way they evolved, defining writing, arranging, recording techniques is beyond anything before or since. Lennon and McCartney drove each other - there's a book out there - Beatle recording sessions that highlights life at Abbey are in those years, just about every week one or both John and Paul would introduce another classic... The fact that Harrison's material became a force toward the end just really eliminates any competition from consideration for me... Fwiw, I'd rank Lennon slightly ahead of Paul as a songwriter.
I'm not a rock historian, just a fan, but you've said what I think quite well, except that I like Paul's writing better. John's whimsy and bitterness always simmer below the surface in his songs. Paul often hearkens back to classic modes and standards ("Your mother should know") in fun ways that John wouldn't countenance.
I might toss out Carol King to represent the Brill building. Paul Simon is terrific. I love the Dead and Robert Hunter. I suppose Dylan is in a class all by himself.
and if we recognize that great rock songwriting is not Â
great, then those fellas who wrote Sympathy for the Devil, Paint it Black, and Gimmie Shelter should be appreciated as more than just a quality band but great writers.
RE: RE: Beatle canon is really beyond anything else... Â
...the sheer volume of quality songs is simply baffling - the way they evolved, defining writing, arranging, recording techniques is beyond anything before or since. Lennon and McCartney drove each other - there's a book out there - Beatle recording sessions that highlights life at Abbey are in those years, just about every week one or both John and Paul would introduce another classic... The fact that Harrison's material became a force toward the end just really eliminates any competition from consideration for me... Fwiw, I'd rank Lennon slightly ahead of Paul as a songwriter.
I'm not a rock historian, just a fan, but you've said what I think quite well, except that I like Paul's writing better. John's whimsy and bitterness always simmer below the surface in his songs. Paul often hearkens back to classic modes and standards ("Your mother should know") in fun ways that John wouldn't countenance.
lennon hated McCartneys goofy stuff. Once, when asked when the moment was that he knew the Beatles were done, he quipped 'Maxwells Silver Hammer'!
It is notable that after the breakup, McCartney continued to produce hits through the 70's while Lennon kind of disappeared after a couple of albums, tragically murdered just as he was coming back.
great, then those fellas who wrote Sympathy for the Devil, Paint it Black, and Gimmie Shelter should be appreciated as more than just a quality band but great writers.
Stones 68-72 was flat out awesome.
RE: RE: if we look for incredible writing on occasion, if not consistently Â
great, then those fellas who wrote Sympathy for the Devil, Paint it Black, and Gimmie Shelter should be appreciated as more than just a quality band but great writers.
Stones 68-72 was flat out awesome.
My favorite Stones album is still Exile on Main Street. I think one could argue that Mick is really a talented "scream" singer. But unlike McCartney, who could belt out a long scream that works in a song, Mick would bark melodically. I know it isn't the right way to say it but on Exile, you can hear it clearly.
RE: RE: RE: if we look for incredible writing on occasion, if not consistently Â
great, then those fellas who wrote Sympathy for the Devil, Paint it Black, and Gimmie Shelter should be appreciated as more than just a quality band but great writers.
Stones 68-72 was flat out awesome.
My favorite Stones album is still Exile on Main Street. I think one could argue that Mick is really a talented "scream" singer. But unlike McCartney, who could belt out a long scream that works in a song, Mick would bark melodically. I know it isn't the right way to say it but on Exile, you can hear it clearly.
The Stones weren't the best at anything... Except being the Stones, and that was plenty during those years, an amazing example of the sum being greater than the parts. The vibe on Exile in particular is really something to behold.
Great names - I'll add a few to the conversation Â
and would have developed a following and written songs as prolifically as Van Morrison (as he was somewhat similar but younger) is Ronnie Lane.
Alas, he died from complications due to MS. He is also similar to Buddy Holly as he had still much to do in music if it weren't for his abilities and life being cut short by disease.
RE: Not a single mention of John Prine? For shame... Â
when I look at what everyone has posted, it is a kick-ass list. Not sure I would put any above or below those already posted, though I have a huge soft spot for Ronnie Lane.
Tom Petty deserves mention. He has a tremendous catalog and the back of his catalog doesn't get enough credit, IMO. He has some beautiful and some rocking songs that many people have not even heard.
I wouldn't say he is the best, but he has written songs that charted in every decade since the 1970's. That is pretty impressive.
Tom Petty deserves mention. He has a tremendous catalog and the back of his catalog doesn't get enough credit, IMO. He has some beautiful and some rocking songs that many people have not even heard.
I wouldn't say he is the best, but he has written songs that charted in every decade since the 1970's. That is pretty impressive.
for his clever lyrics and really diversified set of song styles.
I guess Willie Nelson doesn't count as rock/folk rock, but his songbook is also superior. Crazy, Hello Walls, Angel Flying Too Close to the Ground, Funny How Time Slips Away, On the Road Again, Whiskey River, etc.
Ironically, one of my favorite songs of all time is Willie Nelson doing Paul Simon's "Graceland." I am fairly unusual in that regard, I think.
How can I forget the man who's music I was listening to all day....
Jamie Robbie Robertson
I thought of him too...tremendous talent, but he didn't seem to me to be as productive as the others mentioned.
After his albums writing for The Band he did a bunch of soundtracks and very good solo albums. More of a world \ native American sound to his solo albums, but some great recordings
Townshend. The Beatles had Lennon/McCartney and Harrison. The Stones had Mick, Keith, et al. Zep had Page, Plant and all the old blues writers they borrowed from or ripped off.
The Who had Pete. Yes, Entwistle wrote a few, but it was 95% Pete.
Paul wrote some amazing stuff. He also wrote some silly, simplistic stuff that drove John crazy ... because John was such a pompous prick! Love the talent, but what a dick.
Gonna try to rejuvenate this convo with some modern names... Â
It's been quite a process for him and his band in general (and make no mistake, it is Tweedy's band) but he stepped out of the shadow of Jay Farrar and at this point has surpassed Farrar in every way possible. Although I must say, New Multitudes was a great album (Farrar, Anders Parker, Will Johnson, and Jim James, who IMHO is the best frontman in rock music these days with My Morning Jacket). Chorine My Sheba Queen and Empty Bed Blues are incredible songs. Then again, they're Woodie Guthrie songs.
He wrote more hit tunes in a four year period than most of these artists had in a lifetime. He belongs in the conversation. Chrissie Hynde too.
Always thought it was funny that for,all their hits, Creedences best song, IMO and the opinions of many others never saw radio play: Ramble Tamble. Now that's a kick-ass tune...
He wrote more hit tunes in a four year period than most of these artists had in a lifetime. He belongs in the conversation. Chrissie Hynde too.
Therein lies the crux of the biscuit, just because a songwriter has multiple hits, does that qualify him/her as a great songwriter?
As an example ( I'll pick someone not mentioned here as to not trash anyone's selection) Jim Steinman wrote "Bat Out Of Hell", one of the best selling albums in history and a soundtrack to millions of people's childhoods.. I wouldn't consider Steinman a great songwriter even though he's compared himself to Jim Morrison ( which deserves a hearty scoff). Exposure is key to how an artist is viewed and is not an accurate way to determine the quality of songs in any one artists collection.
There's no better songwriter in the game right now than Jason Isbell
He's up there, should have had him on my list. I have a rather wealthy friend who has legit concerts in his yard every summer. Isbell and the 400 Unit were there a few years back and it was great. Very cool guy too. Last year was John McCauley of Deer Tick, who is actually a damn fine writer in his own right.
There's no better songwriter in the game right now than Jason Isbell
He's up there, should have had him on my list. I have a rather wealthy friend who has legit concerts in his yard every summer. Isbell and the 400 Unit were there a few years back and it was great. Very cool guy too. Last year was John McCauley of Deer Tick, who is actually a damn fine writer in his own right.
Isbell and Sturgill Simpson are on a heavy rotation for me these days
Brian Wilson
Waters
Stevie Wonder
Becker & Fagen
Holland, Dozier & Holland
Neil Young
Elvis Costello
Leiber & Stoller
Bono & The Edge
Bowie
Bruce
Smokey
Fogerty
Ray Davies
I was surprised to discover 5-10 years ago that one of my favorite songs by EC was actually written by Nick Lowe. What's So Funny Bout Peace, Love and Understanding.
I was surprised to discover 5-10 years ago that one of my favorite songs by EC was actually written by Nick Lowe. What's So Funny Bout Peace, Love and Understanding.
Me too, surprised. Elvis closes many shows with it and the crowd loves it.
and all my favorites but one have mentioned - and that one is Dave Alvin. From The Blasters, his brief years with X, to his solo stuff, The Guilty Men and up until today 35 years of great American Music.
I would have bet that Rivers Cuomo would have been on this list eventually.
The Blue album and Pinkerton were masterpieces.
He/Weezer didn't continue to evolve despite the sporadic gem since then.
no offense franknweezer
Ha- none taken but thanks for the h/t. I still think Rivers is going to be counted as a legend someday. Just has put out too much tripe since Pinkerton because he's playing to a certain demographic.
But I'll second the nomination for Charles athompaon aka Frank Black/Black Francis. Hell, Bowie and Cobain knew he had the goods. The guy is phenomenal.
Also love the props for John Prine and Tom Petty, and I'd like to add Steve Earle to the mix as well. Cool thread.
Joni Mitchell
Stevie Wonder
and the word "best" is going to cause angst with the tightly wound anal douches on the sites.
I'm not a rock historian, just a fan, but you've said what I think quite well, except that I like Paul's writing better. John's whimsy and bitterness always simmer below the surface in his songs. Paul often hearkens back to classic modes and standards ("Your mother should know") in fun ways that John wouldn't countenance.
Quote:
...the sheer volume of quality songs is simply baffling - the way they evolved, defining writing, arranging, recording techniques is beyond anything before or since. Lennon and McCartney drove each other - there's a book out there - Beatle recording sessions that highlights life at Abbey are in those years, just about every week one or both John and Paul would introduce another classic... The fact that Harrison's material became a force toward the end just really eliminates any competition from consideration for me... Fwiw, I'd rank Lennon slightly ahead of Paul as a songwriter.
I'm not a rock historian, just a fan, but you've said what I think quite well, except that I like Paul's writing better. John's whimsy and bitterness always simmer below the surface in his songs. Paul often hearkens back to classic modes and standards ("Your mother should know") in fun ways that John wouldn't countenance.
It is notable that after the breakup, McCartney continued to produce hits through the 70's while Lennon kind of disappeared after a couple of albums, tragically murdered just as he was coming back.
Quote:
great, then those fellas who wrote Sympathy for the Devil, Paint it Black, and Gimmie Shelter should be appreciated as more than just a quality band but great writers.
Stones 68-72 was flat out awesome.
My favorite Stones album is still Exile on Main Street. I think one could argue that Mick is really a talented "scream" singer. But unlike McCartney, who could belt out a long scream that works in a song, Mick would bark melodically. I know it isn't the right way to say it but on Exile, you can hear it clearly.
Quote:
In comment 12969794 Moondawg said:
Quote:
great, then those fellas who wrote Sympathy for the Devil, Paint it Black, and Gimmie Shelter should be appreciated as more than just a quality band but great writers.
Stones 68-72 was flat out awesome.
My favorite Stones album is still Exile on Main Street. I think one could argue that Mick is really a talented "scream" singer. But unlike McCartney, who could belt out a long scream that works in a song, Mick would bark melodically. I know it isn't the right way to say it but on Exile, you can hear it clearly.
The Stones weren't the best at anything... Except being the Stones, and that was plenty during those years, an amazing example of the sum being greater than the parts. The vibe on Exile in particular is really something to behold.
Smokey Robinson
Van Morrison
If we start moving into country, that's a whole 'nother can of worms.
How dare you
The soundtrack for Emmet Otters Jugband Christmas is GENIUS
I think he has some corny cliched songs, but their early stuff was much different. And the Beatles also capitalized on some corny cliched lyrics.
I never cared for the religious themes, but still can acknowledge Bono's talent.
Speaking of unique. Randy Newman too
Good call. She's another one who writes and writes and writes.
Jeff Tweedy
Rich Robinson
Lou Reed
Alas, he died from complications due to MS. He is also similar to Buddy Holly as he had still much to do in music if it weren't for his abilities and life being cut short by disease.
My wife is making me go to Nashville for his 70th Bday.
He doesn't do it for me, but she's obsessed.
John Prine
Johnny Cash
Paul Simon
Gordon Lightfoot
Curtis Mayfield
Bjorn Ulvaeus/Benny Andersson
John Prine
Johnny Cash
Paul Simon
Gordon Lightfoot
Curtis Mayfield
Bjorn Ulvaeus/Benny Andersson
Awesome! An Abba shoutout
Shit, that was my eff up.
Yes, good call.
I wouldn't say he is the best, but he has written songs that charted in every decade since the 1970's. That is pretty impressive.
I wouldn't say he is the best, but he has written songs that charted in every decade since the 1970's. That is pretty impressive.
I mentioned him above.
Jamie Robbie Robertson
From the early days until 1968 they were Motown
Jamie Robbie Robertson
I thought of him too...tremendous talent, but he didn't seem to me to be as productive as the others mentioned.
I guess Willie Nelson doesn't count as rock/folk rock, but his songbook is also superior. Crazy, Hello Walls, Angel Flying Too Close to the Ground, Funny How Time Slips Away, On the Road Again, Whiskey River, etc.
Ironically, one of my favorite songs of all time is Willie Nelson doing Paul Simon's "Graceland." I am fairly unusual in that regard, I think.
Quote:
Johnny Cash considers the man Americas greatest songwriter. That's good enough for me.
My wife is making me go to Nashville for his 70th Bday.
He doesn't do it for me, but she's obsessed.
That's gonna be a good one. Imagine the guests he's going to have. I'm guessing Bonnie Rait will be a shoe-in with Angel from Montgomery.
Just Don't Do Me Like That again.
Quote:
How can I forget the man who's music I was listening to all day....
Jamie Robbie Robertson
I thought of him too...tremendous talent, but he didn't seem to me to be as productive as the others mentioned.
After his albums writing for The Band he did a bunch of soundtracks and very good solo albums. More of a world \ native American sound to his solo albums, but some great recordings
so I would put Van Morrison in there too.
And although most would say that his hits were pop instead of rock, I would add David Gates from Bread. Some of his lyrics are achingly beautiful.
would have to be on any list.
Paul Simon
Queens College
no to shabby either
He was mentioned about halfway down page #1 I believe.
Frank Zappa
Roger Hodgson
Jon Anderson
Curtis Mayfield
Richie Havens
Steve Goodman
Carole King is well represented here but I didn't see Gerry Goffin mentioned.
and rightly so
I'll replace him with Ian Anderson.
Thom Yorke: Radiohead
Frank Black: Pixies/Frank Black/Black Francis
Morrisey: The Smiths/Morrisey
Some considered him the most respected songwriter of the '60's British Invasion, which included Lennon/McCartney.
In all honesty, I thought of him for my list but forgot to type him in.
Kris Kristofferson
How about David Bowie?
Didn't Mike Love write such great songs as...ummm....Everyone's In Love With You and...hmm Goin To The Beach?? Blech
Listened to Poco this morning. Hell , his best song was a BS song...kind woman.
Pickin Up The Pieces is a masterpiece. Think about Stills/Young/Furay production immediately after BS. Wowoeowo
The Who had Pete. Yes, Entwistle wrote a few, but it was 95% Pete.
Tom Waits
Robbie Robertson
Bob Marley
Roger Waters
Conor Oberst
Jeff Tweedy
M. Ward
Iron and Wine-Biting your Tail - ( New Window )
It's been quite a process for him and his band in general (and make no mistake, it is Tweedy's band) but he stepped out of the shadow of Jay Farrar and at this point has surpassed Farrar in every way possible. Although I must say, New Multitudes was a great album (Farrar, Anders Parker, Will Johnson, and Jim James, who IMHO is the best frontman in rock music these days with My Morning Jacket). Chorine My Sheba Queen and Empty Bed Blues are incredible songs. Then again, they're Woodie Guthrie songs.
Always thought it was funny that for,all their hits, Creedences best song, IMO and the opinions of many others never saw radio play: Ramble Tamble. Now that's a kick-ass tune...
Therein lies the crux of the biscuit, just because a songwriter has multiple hits, does that qualify him/her as a great songwriter?
As an example ( I'll pick someone not mentioned here as to not trash anyone's selection) Jim Steinman wrote "Bat Out Of Hell", one of the best selling albums in history and a soundtrack to millions of people's childhoods.. I wouldn't consider Steinman a great songwriter even though he's compared himself to Jim Morrison ( which deserves a hearty scoff). Exposure is key to how an artist is viewed and is not an accurate way to determine the quality of songs in any one artists collection.
He's up there, should have had him on my list. I have a rather wealthy friend who has legit concerts in his yard every summer. Isbell and the 400 Unit were there a few years back and it was great. Very cool guy too. Last year was John McCauley of Deer Tick, who is actually a damn fine writer in his own right.
Quote:
There's no better songwriter in the game right now than Jason Isbell
He's up there, should have had him on my list. I have a rather wealthy friend who has legit concerts in his yard every summer. Isbell and the 400 Unit were there a few years back and it was great. Very cool guy too. Last year was John McCauley of Deer Tick, who is actually a damn fine writer in his own right.
Isbell and Sturgill Simpson are on a heavy rotation for me these days
Afterward in no particular order;
Brian Wilson
Waters
Stevie Wonder
Becker & Fagen
Holland, Dozier & Holland
Neil Young
Elvis Costello
Leiber & Stoller
Bono & The Edge
Bowie
Bruce
Smokey
Fogerty
Ray Davies
The Blue album and Pinkerton were masterpieces.
He/Weezer didn't continue to evolve despite the sporadic gem since then.
no offense franknweezer
Me too, surprised. Elvis closes many shows with it and the crowd loves it.
The Blue album and Pinkerton were masterpieces.
He/Weezer didn't continue to evolve despite the sporadic gem since then.
no offense franknweezer
Ha- none taken but thanks for the h/t. I still think Rivers is going to be counted as a legend someday. Just has put out too much tripe since Pinkerton because he's playing to a certain demographic.
But I'll second the nomination for Charles athompaon aka Frank Black/Black Francis. Hell, Bowie and Cobain knew he had the goods. The guy is phenomenal.
Also love the props for John Prine and Tom Petty, and I'd like to add Steve Earle to the mix as well. Cool thread.
Gene Clark
John Cale