I hesitate to wade into this issue as it becomes emotionally charged and there is still so much we don't know. All that can be said with any certainty are that concussions and repeated blows to the head can cause CTE and the condition appears to be linked to the increased presence of the protein tau in the brain.
It is also clear the NFL has tried multiple times to prevent the release of any CTE info that damages its brand with the most recent news just being the latest example. The league's behavior in all of this has been substandard at best and devious at worst. I can turn a blind eye to how the commissioner has handled player discipline (as inconsistent as it may be) but he should fall on his sword for how the CTE issue has been handled. Instead of trying to hide in hopes it would all go away, the league should have pursued an aggressive and public campaign to re-educate tackling, change helmet design, change playing turf, promote youth flag football, and fund studies to prevent/treat CTE that include new medication and therapy. Many of these things are in fact going on, but this is a battle of public opinion, and the league office is not getting its message out or highlighting enough of the good faith efforts it is making to fight CTE.
All this brings me to the following story about late BMX biker Dave Mirra who committed suicide following complications from CTE. I lay immense amounts of blame at Roger Goodell's feet for how the NFL has handled CTE, but CTE is not football's fault. By that I mean the condition is not unique to football. There may be higher incidents of CTE in football but we don't really know. Extreme sports, rugby, water polo, hockey, boxing, and ultimate fighting all carry CTE risks, some to a great degree. This is a serious issue that encompasses many contact sports, and right now I feel we are on two extremes.
One that says this is all overblown and professional athletes make choices and are well compensated. I'm not unsympathetic to this argument because the facts are true, but it ignores the impact on youth sports and how much info did players really have at their finger tips. The other extreme takes us down the road of a severe reduction in participation in contact sports because of CTE fears. While I sympathize with these thoughts (we all want to protect kids) but are we willing to go that far? Are we willing to eschew all the sports I listed above because some athletes could develop CTE? I don't think so or at least I hope not.
Maybe it's just my view on life but you waste your time and others if you live every moment of every day trying to eliminate every possible risk. Sure you make calculated risks and we all have our own formula. Human beings are natural risk takers, it's what makes us great. People climb Everest (and many die), some sky dive and bungee jump, there are ultra marathon runners, and how much you want to bet NASCAR drivers who have been in more than a few crashes have some CTE.
Human beings do dangerous and reckless things all the time, that's not going to change. Now that doesn't mean we just let our young people do foolish things. They deserve protection and parents deserve unbiased info. Does football carry risks? Absolutely and the NFL needs to do everything possible to alleviate that risk. I'm all for no tackle football until at least 16 along with other safety measures. But society must be careful that in our desire to protect we lose sight of the consequences. There is a lot of fear out there at the moment and decisions are being made in a vacuum. Yet another reason why the NFL needs to be out in front on this issue. Short of putting everyone in a bubble, there is always risk. The NFL needs to be more proactive in managing risks inherent to the sport. Otherwise the impact could be felt far beyond football.
Late BMX biker Dave mirra had CTE - (
New Window )
Football knew about CTE and about concussions and decided to either downplay it or in some cases deny it completely.
This is like saying lung cancer isn't just caused by cigarettes. While true, it doesn't make the tobacco industry less culpable for spending years trying to deny that.
That's the issue with CTE - not that only football players can get it, but that the organization that employs professional football players intentionally decided to keep that information from seeing the light of day as long as possible.
WHy are so many people willfully ignoring this?
Is there a study comparing CTE for NFL players versus the general population versus other sports? I assume there is and it is unequivocal.
The discussion about CTE is a complex one, because while it is true that CTE is caused by repetitive collisions, when an outlier in the area of another sport is found to have erratic behavior, the jump shouldn't just be made that "AHA! CTE isn't just in the NFL". Of course it isn't, but outside of boxing, where several former fighters succumbed to suicide and ended up with dementia (which CTE is referred to as - pugilistic dementia), you aren't seeing the same trends in as many numbers as with the NFL who have legions of players with brain injuries who are pretty much drooling invalids in their final days.
There are correlations - there are a number of hockey enforcers who have gone "crazy" or committed suicide. But it isn't strewn through all of sports. Soccer is known to have mini-collisions with heading the ball, but the rate of CTE incidence in that sport is thought to be very small and there aren't a lot of stories about former players who have gone off the deep end due to dementia, and there is a sample size a hell of a lot larger than the NFL. Baseball isn't known to see CTE. Basketball isn't known.
You will always have outliers, but that shouldn't obscure the situation with the NFL.
Is there a study comparing CTE for NFL players versus the general population versus other sports? I assume there is and it is unequivocal.
The NFL covering up evidence and hiding it from players is not a big issue?
And the poster who said it's the volume of the impacts to the brain is 100% correct from what I've read.
I think it's more likely we'll see a Logan's Run type of the NFL where players above the age of 30 are rare/not seen than we'll see significant rule changes.
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is a big issue.
Is there a study comparing CTE for NFL players versus the general population versus other sports? I assume there is and it is unequivocal.
The NFL covering up evidence and hiding it from players is not a big issue?
I think it is a big issue if they willfully covered up. I am asking about the conclusion that NFL players are more susceptible to CTE than the general population. Has that been proven? There are owners who question that conclusion. Maybe it is like the cigarette disaster but I do not know.
The discussion about CTE is a complex one, because while it is true that CTE is caused by repetitive collisions, when an outlier in the area of another sport is found to have erratic behavior, the jump shouldn't just be made that "AHA! CTE isn't just in the NFL". Of course it isn't, but outside of boxing, where several former fighters succumbed to suicide and ended up with dementia (which CTE is referred to as - pugilistic dementia), you aren't seeing the same trends in as many numbers as with the NFL who have legions of players with brain injuries who are pretty much drooling invalids in their final days.
There are correlations - there are a number of hockey enforcers who have gone "crazy" or committed suicide. But it isn't strewn through all of sports. Soccer is known to have mini-collisions with heading the ball, but the rate of CTE incidence in that sport is thought to be very small and there aren't a lot of stories about former players who have gone off the deep end due to dementia, and there is a sample size a hell of a lot larger than the NFL. Baseball isn't known to see CTE. Basketball isn't known.
You will always have outliers, but that shouldn't obscure the situation with the NFL.
Likewise, I expect to see a rise in CTE cases with retired football players for a couple of reasons. Now that it is out there, perhaps more players submit to studies both alive and on their brains after they are gone. The nature of the game with much bigger and much faster players on average, the collisions are getting more and more violent. Additionally, you will see more players from the 70s, 80s, and early 90s from playing on the astroturf fields that basically were laid over concrete. As I said in a previous post, I would expect a big spike for RBs and perhaps WRs. The hits they take on a regular basis are from bigger players at higher speeds.
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In comment 12970982 SomeFan said:
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is a big issue.
Is there a study comparing CTE for NFL players versus the general population versus other sports? I assume there is and it is unequivocal.
The NFL covering up evidence and hiding it from players is not a big issue?
I think it is a big issue if they willfully covered up. I am asking about the conclusion that NFL players are more susceptible to CTE than the general population. Has that been proven? There are owners who question that conclusion. Maybe it is like the cigarette disaster but I do not know.
I wouldn't be surprised if hockey is the next sport to come under scrutiny.
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In comment 12971015 Chris in Philly said:
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In comment 12970982 SomeFan said:
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is a big issue.
Is there a study comparing CTE for NFL players versus the general population versus other sports? I assume there is and it is unequivocal.
The NFL covering up evidence and hiding it from players is not a big issue?
I think it is a big issue if they willfully covered up. I am asking about the conclusion that NFL players are more susceptible to CTE than the general population. Has that been proven? There are owners who question that conclusion. Maybe it is like the cigarette disaster but I do not know.
Some fan - I would think the more relevant study for the owners is football players to athletes of other sports. I would have to think it is almost impossible for football players not have a significantly higher rate of CTE cases than the general population. most people aren't getting hit violently multiple times a day, a few days a week, for months out of the year, for several years.
Agree, I think both analyses have relevance. But is there evidence that the incidence is significantly higher? That is my question.
I don't know how one would go about determining what constitutes a "dangerous decision" without hard data. For example, there is a huge difference between a 7% risk and a 75% risk. If the criterion becomes zero or near-zero risk, then most, if not all, contact sports would have to end permanently. We might as well stop watching right now.
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that I don't think it is OK for those who believe this to continue along the lines of "the players know the risks...". Yes they do. But, so do the owners, the fans, the media, and the medical profession. Collectively, I think it is the our responsibility to prevent these young men from making dangerous decisions. That may mean the sport has to drastically change. If that happens it also may ruin the sport. But, that may be a necessary outcome.
I don't know how one would go about determining what constitutes a "dangerous decision" without hard data. For example, there is a huge difference between a 7% risk and a 75% risk. If the criterion becomes zero or near-zero risk, then most, if not all, contact sports would have to end permanently. We might as well stop watching right now.
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In comment 12971342 Matt M. said:
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that I don't think it is OK for those who believe this to continue along the lines of "the players know the risks...". Yes they do. But, so do the owners, the fans, the media, and the medical profession. Collectively, I think it is the our responsibility to prevent these young men from making dangerous decisions. That may mean the sport has to drastically change. If that happens it also may ruin the sport. But, that may be a necessary outcome.
I don't know how one would go about determining what constitutes a "dangerous decision" without hard data. For example, there is a huge difference between a 7% risk and a 75% risk. If the criterion becomes zero or near-zero risk, then most, if not all, contact sports would have to end permanently. We might as well stop watching right now.
I agree about needing the hard data. But, the data is quickly changing and leaning toward higher incidences of cTE and similar conditions that were previously misdiagnosed or ignored. I think the data is going to start looking very different.
I don't know. Even Stern from BU apparently thinks the media hype is beyond the science. Lots of relevant quotes in the linked article.
link - ( New Window )
Wah wah blah blah
Wah wah blah blah
The fuck?
To play football professional you have to start well before you are an adult. Then by the time you are an adult you may be left with few legitimate career alternatives.