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How much credibility does Charlie Casserly have?

ANGPASS : 5/25/2016 9:16 am
I was watching NFL network this morning and he expects Sterling Sheppard to be a fantasy monster and for BJ Goodson and Darian Thompson to start day 1 this year.

This got me excited. He definitely knows more about these players than I do.

Thoughts?
Generally speaking...  
Chris in Philly : 5/25/2016 9:18 am : link
I notice that when he says something nice about us, he's a successful GM with a strong track record. And when he doesn't, he's an idiot talking head that couldn't keep a job.

Personally I'd be surprised if these guys spent much time at all watching tape of college guys.
I can't stand the guy.  
superspynyg : 5/25/2016 9:20 am : link
He is about as entertaining as a root canal.
Former NFL GM  
arniefez : 5/25/2016 9:21 am : link
someone who usually has a very well informed, realistic opinion. Obviously he's guessing and looking at what the Giants had last year and have this year at those positions. I think he's also taking the head coaching change into consideration. Highly doubtful he would have the same opinion if the coaching staff had carried over from last year.
How much credibility should any GM who failed to support  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/25/2016 9:24 am : link
a first overall draft QB and contributed to getting him sacked into oblivion have?
RE: How much credibility should any GM who failed to support  
djstat : 5/25/2016 9:26 am : link
In comment 12970346 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
a first overall draft QB and contributed to getting him sacked into oblivion have?
This is an ignorant and stupid comment. He picked up Tony Boselli and drafted him Andre Johnson. Another case of an idiot fan who does not do research. Ten Ton Hammer to your head it appears
IMO, Charlie has more often spoke a better game  
Giants2012 : 5/25/2016 9:26 am : link
than he plays.
he's old  
pjcas18 : 5/25/2016 9:29 am : link
so he need to be taken with a grain of salt like all old people do.

no offense to old people.
RE: RE: How much credibility should any GM who failed to support  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/25/2016 9:40 am : link
In comment 12970348 djstat said:
Quote:
In comment 12970346 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


a first overall draft QB and contributed to getting him sacked into oblivion have?

This is an ignorant and stupid comment. He picked up Tony Boselli and drafted him Andre Johnson. Another case of an idiot fan who does not do research. Ten Ton Hammer to your head it appears


Tony Boselli never played a game for Houston. Carr was drafted a year later. Take a walk.
Old, eh?...  
BMac : 5/25/2016 9:41 am : link
...
RE: Generally speaking...  
Joey in VA : 5/25/2016 9:44 am : link
In comment 12970337 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
I notice that when he says something nice about us, he's a successful GM with a strong track record. And when he doesn't, he's an idiot talking head that couldn't keep a job.

Personally I'd be surprised if these guys spent much time at all watching tape of college guys.
Tape? Did you say tape? HA what a noob, everyone knows tape is only acquirable in the city of Alexandretta after one passes a series of daunting biblical riddles only to choose the proper goblet, drink from it and then be shown the real holy grail, actual tape. No mere mortals have access to "tape", you silly little man how dare you even use the word "tape"!
Didn't he help find the Jets GM  
ANGPASS : 5/25/2016 10:05 am : link
Jets GM has been solid. IDK. He seems passionate about the players.
Not sure what he track record as an analyst was  
jcn56 : 5/25/2016 10:08 am : link
but he was a good GM. What he's calling for here seems pretty extreme, though - that much contribution from three rookies would be awesome, but also pretty rare.
Not really sure,  
Big Blue '56 : 5/25/2016 10:21 am : link
but saying these guys will be starters from day 1 is far from a stretch and unless they totally screw the pooch should be starting, imo. I assumed that they would be starting and I never saw one second of their college years
I find Casserly, and (even moreso) Pat Kirwan more relevant  
David B. : 5/25/2016 10:25 am : link
Then most of the bobble-heads talking about football -- including players, ex-players and ex-coaches.

They were GMs, and they offer a unique perspective on how decisions are really made that most fans should pay more attention to.

Any EX GM could provide similar insights, but Charlie was with WSH (in some capacity) for all of their SB wins. He knows what it's like to have the first pick in the draft. Knows what it's like to GM an expansion team. Like all GMs, he's had his hits and misses with picks.

He seems pretty qualified to me to speak from the GM perspective.

It's not like he's Matt Millen.

That said, there are times Charlie is clearly asked by the network to talk out of his ass (guess and speculate) for entertainment value. I think those instances are fairly obvious to spot.
I think of all the talking heads he is one of the most respected  
PatersonPlank : 5/25/2016 10:29 am : link
people definitely seem to value his opinion. Every GM has people who don't like him, its the nature of making decisions, but overall he was a good GM. Some interesting stats on him pulled from the internet:
- he was the GM for the Redskins last two Super Bowls
- he was the scout who created "the hogs" offensive line
- his 1987 "replacement team" that went 3-0 was the basis for the movie "The Replacements".
- he was appointed to the NFL competition committee.
I find Casserly to be very entertaining.  
Klaatu : 5/25/2016 10:30 am : link
Malaprops and all. I'd rather listen to him more than most of the idiot ex-players on the NFL Network (yes, Heath Evans and Jamie Dukes...I'm talking about you two, in particular).
ANGPASS, I don't know,  
Doomster : 5/25/2016 10:46 am : link
is his crystal ball better than yours? Or anyone else's for that matter?
His Connections  
Samiam : 5/25/2016 10:53 am : link
I agree with the post above that he probably doesn't watch all that much film on individual players. But he more than likely he has connections into the front offices and coaching staffs of the teams and he's repeating what he's heard from them.. Maybe they're right, maybe not
well  
BleedBlue : 5/25/2016 10:58 am : link
he was a former GM so i tend to trust his opinion.

Considering I feel goodson and thompson will start also ill say casserly is a genius!! lol

I also think perkins will have a big impact. If the giants get good contribution from at least 4 of the 6 rookies wow look out they will be tough to beat because with out them there is some talent on the team.
seams pretty clear  
msh : 5/25/2016 11:00 am : link
at least 3 will start and the other 3 will get alot of chances
(apple,shepard and thompson being the starters and im counting slot CB and 3rd safety as starters for the giants here)

goodson could play his way into a starting role maybe not week 1 but mid-way thru the season he may have found away into the starting lineup

perkins and adams are the 3rd down back and #2 TE respectively unless they sign a veteran at thier positions between now and week 1 so all 6 will get significant playing time this could well be reese's best draft since 2007 season if they had managed to draft or develop a RG and RT with the last few years draft they could be 2007 all over again

having to pin my hopes on hart and stingly managing to save them from jerry and newhouse for them to have any shot going far thou let alone contend, but the division is there for the taking this team isnt as far away as some think, IF all 6 draft picks manage to play thier way into enough time and if the FA pickups are as good as we think also
I take him w/ a grain of salt like Gil Brandt, Kirwan & Accorsi  
FranknWeezer : 5/25/2016 11:10 am : link
because of their age and the fact that the game has changed so much since their tenures. BUT, they are scouts at heart, have put in more time than most people towards their craft, they are relatively-well connected around the league (as well as with college coaches) and as said above, they're a hell of a lot better than the tripe that comes (or has come) out of the mouths of the likes of Adam Schein, Stephen A. Smith and ex-players like Heath Evans/Emmitt/Sapp/Ray Lewis, etc.
agree with David B  
JonC : 5/25/2016 11:11 am : link
.
regarding Casserly, that is  
JonC : 5/25/2016 11:12 am : link
Kirwan is normally a good read in print, but I find him less worthy on the radio.
He's probably...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/25/2016 11:13 am : link
spends a lot of time thinking about how guys will play because he clearly hasn't had enough to choose a decent looking toupee.
Couldn't agree more with  
barens : 5/25/2016 11:23 am : link
Franknweezer
I don't think age has anything to do with, unless of course they were  
PatersonPlank : 5/25/2016 11:38 am : link
getting senile. They still understand the game today.
RE: RE: RE: How much credibility should any GM who failed to support  
Gussi41 : 5/25/2016 11:43 am : link
In comment 12970388 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 12970348 djstat said:


Quote:


In comment 12970346 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


a first overall draft QB and contributed to getting him sacked into oblivion have?

This is an ignorant and stupid comment. He picked up Tony Boselli and drafted him Andre Johnson. Another case of an idiot fan who does not do research. Ten Ton Hammer to your head it appears



Tony Boselli never played a game for Houston. Carr was drafted a year later. Take a walk.


Showing ignorance once again.. Boselli was drafted Feb 2002 in anticipation of Taking Carr 2 month later in April 2002..

Solid move, unless you can foresee a career ending shoulder injury..
Casserly took Mario Williams with the #1 pick  
SHO'NUFF : 5/25/2016 11:54 am : link
despite the public outcry for Reggie Bush or Vince Young...it turned out to be the correct call .
wasn't Boselli a Jaguar? I don't recall him with the Texans  
SHO'NUFF : 5/25/2016 11:55 am : link
and I certainly don't remember having 2 different drafts in 2002...one in Feb and one in April.
The old guy knows more about the NFL  
joeinpa : 5/25/2016 12:03 pm : link
Than anyone who posts here including pijcas
RE: RE: RE: RE: How much credibility should any GM who failed to support  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/25/2016 12:07 pm : link
In comment 12970639 Gussi41 said:
Quote:
In comment 12970388 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 12970348 djstat said:


Quote:


In comment 12970346 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


a first overall draft QB and contributed to getting him sacked into oblivion have?

This is an ignorant and stupid comment. He picked up Tony Boselli and drafted him Andre Johnson. Another case of an idiot fan who does not do research. Ten Ton Hammer to your head it appears



Tony Boselli never played a game for Houston. Carr was drafted a year later. Take a walk.



Showing ignorance once again.. Boselli was drafted Feb 2002 in anticipation of Taking Carr 2 month later in April 2002..

Solid move, unless you can foresee a career ending shoulder injury..


Again, Tony Boselli never played a game for the texans.

David Carr was sacked 76, 15, 49, and 68 times in his first 4 years. Don't try to tell me that Tony Boselli is the excuse for getting your franchise QB ruined.

RE: He's probably...  
BMac : 5/25/2016 12:13 pm : link
In comment 12970584 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
spends a lot of time thinking about how guys will play because he clearly hasn't had enough to choose a decent looking toupee.


You'd think he'd consult with Ernie.
He's slightly smarter than arnie  
AP in Halfmoon : 5/25/2016 12:18 pm : link
.
Casserly is known for his tenure with the Redskins, not Texasn  
PatersonPlank : 5/25/2016 12:18 pm : link
He led them to Super Bowls and was Executive of the Year in 1999. He also drafted a lot of winners with the Texans, including Carr, Mario Williams, DeMeco Ryans, Jerome Mathis, Owen Daniels, and Andre Johnson. I believe all were All Pro players.

The guy is a damn good football guy.
I had Casserly as a professor in business school a few years back..  
BurberryManning : 5/25/2016 12:24 pm : link
Charlie taught Sports Leadership during the Thursday night 6-9:30pm time slot during which the school typically sponsored "kegs in the courtyard" to promote MBA networking. As one might imagine, the move was to fill up a couple of solo cups during bathroom breaks and by the end of class everyone was rather loose with their discussions.

From what I gathered, Casserly was a great person and very knowledgeable with regards to the game of football but he also left me feeling that the old boys network within the NFL was still plagued by inefficiencies which could be ripe for disruption for the more analytically inclined. Casserly was a master at the type of "coach speak" and heuristics that drove a lot of my classmates and myself crazy.

For example, Casserly would categorically classify certain players as "winners" and with this you could more or less "throw the statistics out of the window because they just win." Well, 2011-2012 was also the height of Tebow-mania but Casserly was not a fan of Tim Tebow. Hmmm, a 24 year old former NCAA Champion that just led the Broncos on an improbable playoff birth and victory over the Steelers does not qualify as a winner? Casserly of course deferred to analytics to support his argument in this case.

I will say that I found it interesting to hear Casserly describe his decision process for the Mario Williams selection (he allowed every scout & coach to present on their recommendation between Williams & Bush in an effort to make them feel empowered when in reality his mind was made up the entire time) and he was quick to offer his mea culpa regarding the development of Derek Carr.

The final exam was actually a simple term paper in which we were to detail all of the elements that went wrong to submarine the Philadelphia Eagles 2011 Dream Team.
RE: I had Casserly as a professor in business school a few years back..  
Chris in Philly : 5/25/2016 12:26 pm : link
In comment 12970746 BurberryManning said:
Quote:
...

The final exam was actually a simple term paper in which we were to detail all of the elements that went wrong to submarine the Philadelphia Eagles 2011 Dream Team.


My God, what a glorious exercise!
You know what they say, Chris  
Greg from LI : 5/25/2016 12:27 pm : link
It's not really work when you love what you do.
It was the most enjoyable class that I took...  
BurberryManning : 5/25/2016 12:37 pm : link
As a 1st year you're given 2000 points to bid on classes through your two years....I think that class cleared something like 600 points because everyone bid on it, which is even more impressive considering that it was scheduled during a school-sponsored drinking event.
RE: RE: I had Casserly as a professor in business school a few years back..  
PatersonPlank : 5/25/2016 12:44 pm : link
In comment 12970751 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
In comment 12970746 BurberryManning said:


Quote:


...

The final exam was actually a simple term paper in which we were to detail all of the elements that went wrong to submarine the Philadelphia Eagles 2011 Dream Team.



My God, what a glorious exercise!


Agreed, this should be a Thesis topic. It would be the only way I'm ever getting a Ph'D.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: How much credibility should any GM who failed to support  
Gussi41 : 5/25/2016 12:48 pm : link
In comment 12970715 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 12970639 Gussi41 said:


Quote:


In comment 12970388 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 12970348 djstat said:


Quote:


In comment 12970346 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


a first overall draft QB and contributed to getting him sacked into oblivion have?

This is an ignorant and stupid comment. He picked up Tony Boselli and drafted him Andre Johnson. Another case of an idiot fan who does not do research. Ten Ton Hammer to your head it appears



Tony Boselli never played a game for Houston. Carr was drafted a year later. Take a walk.



Showing ignorance once again.. Boselli was drafted Feb 2002 in anticipation of Taking Carr 2 month later in April 2002..

Solid move, unless you can foresee a career ending shoulder injury..



Again, Tony Boselli never played a game for the texans.

David Carr was sacked 76, 15, 49, and 68 times in his first 4 years. Don't try to tell me that Tony Boselli is the excuse for getting your franchise QB ruined.


LOL.. Ok I'll keep it going.. My comment was in response to this idiotic statement:

"Tony Boselli never played a game for Houston. Carr was drafted a year later. Take a walk."

Fact - Tony Boselli was drafted 2 month before before Carr. Not 1 year like you mentioned
Fact - Tony Boselli never played bc he got hurt. You make it seem like the Boselli pickup was a bad move on Casserly's part, which it wasn't.
I like the guy  
KWALL2 : 5/25/2016 12:48 pm : link
A lot better than most covering football.

What he said about the 3 rookies seems very reasonable to me. We have openings at LB and S. Not much standing in front of the rookies. It would not surprise if they start.

Sheppard? He will have a monster rookie year. Even if Cruz starts 16, Sheppard will get a lot of PT and produce.
Considering how little we know about McAdoo's tendencies  
WideRight : 5/25/2016 12:51 pm : link
I'd say there is no credibility here.

And "starter" is an old concept. How many packages will they play in? Still anyone's guess on day 1.
I think his MAIN VALUE as a commentator  
David B. : 5/25/2016 12:57 pm : link
Is that he thinks like a GM, and has that different perspective. He sees that bigger picture and brings the long-term perspective that you don't get from coaches, players, journalists, or fans that are very much wrapped up with "the now."

Unlike a coach or a player, a GM cannot afford to be focused on just the current season. GMs have to be thinking a season or two ahead (at least). The most obvious example of this is why so many GMs use the BPA approach to the draft, while fans typically don't think beyond this year's NEED.

So I think the GM perspective is often more insightful than most, and I don't have issue with Casserly.

You need to clarify between the real draft  
SHO'NUFF : 5/25/2016 1:23 pm : link
and expansion draft.
Haven't gotten through the thread yet but  
T-Bone : 5/25/2016 1:24 pm : link
IMO, he's pretty much 50/50. Sometimes he's right... sometimes he's wrong with his predictions. What I do like about him though is that he's not afraid to be critical of players or coaches. He'll call out something that he doesn't agree with and will not shy away from any backlash that may be a result of it. A lot of times it seems that former coaches and GMs who get into the media are careful with their words for fear of alienating a franchise or player who he may need to work with in a few years. Cassely doesn't appear to have such qualms. It's almost like he already knows he ain't working as a GM again and just doesn't give a fugg and calls it as he sees it and if it hurts someone's feelings... tough noogies.
Is that a hair piece on Casserly?  
Boy Cord : 5/25/2016 1:49 pm : link
His predictions about Thompson and Goodson also reflect who the Giants have on the roster at their positions.

I'm skeptical when analysts tout how great a draft is based on the number of rookies that started. It could be the incumbents were in desperate need of replacing.
I don't care a bit about predictions  
David B. : 5/25/2016 1:56 pm : link
Who's predictions should anyone take seriously? Who predicted the Giants in 07 or 11? No one. That's who. That shit's for selling stories. The wrong guy or two goes down and all predictions go out the window.

Not listening to him for predictions. Listening to him for insight on what teams might be thinking, or WHY teams make, or may have made certain personnel decisions. And to a degree for his take on players as a former scout and talent evaluator.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: How much credibility should any GM who failed to support  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/25/2016 1:57 pm : link
In comment 12970780 Gussi41 said:
Quote:
In comment 12970715 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 12970639 Gussi41 said:


Quote:


In comment 12970388 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 12970348 djstat said:


Quote:


In comment 12970346 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


a first overall draft QB and contributed to getting him sacked into oblivion have?

This is an ignorant and stupid comment. He picked up Tony Boselli and drafted him Andre Johnson. Another case of an idiot fan who does not do research. Ten Ton Hammer to your head it appears



Tony Boselli never played a game for Houston. Carr was drafted a year later. Take a walk.



Showing ignorance once again.. Boselli was drafted Feb 2002 in anticipation of Taking Carr 2 month later in April 2002..

Solid move, unless you can foresee a career ending shoulder injury..



Again, Tony Boselli never played a game for the texans.

David Carr was sacked 76, 15, 49, and 68 times in his first 4 years. Don't try to tell me that Tony Boselli is the excuse for getting your franchise QB ruined.




LOL.. Ok I'll keep it going.. My comment was in response to this idiotic statement:

"Tony Boselli never played a game for Houston. Carr was drafted a year later. Take a walk."

Fact - Tony Boselli was drafted 2 month before before Carr. Not 1 year like you mentioned
Fact - Tony Boselli never played bc he got hurt. You make it seem like the Boselli pickup was a bad move on Casserly's part, which it wasn't.


Here's my point: Forget Boselli. He failed to field a functional offensive line much less a good one. It doesn't fall on one player move not working out. What other GM gets a pass for ruining a QB? None.
I don't care who says it  
djm : 5/25/2016 3:44 pm : link
I can't take anyone seriously when before we even get to training camp they proclaim that a rookie is not only going to play but have a huge impact. And not just one, but three? All mid rounders no less?

Talk to me in August and even then it would be a stretch to say such things. Does anyone realize how good one has to be to reach the level of FF monster? We're talking 75-1000 and 8 Tds here. Cmon man... Relax. Hakeem nicks was very very good early and his rookie numbers were somewhere in the 40-600 range. We would be blessed to get that from Sheppard in year one.
Actually FF monster  
djm : 5/25/2016 3:46 pm : link
Is even better than 75-1000. But we can start there just for the sake of argument. FF monster is more along the lines of 90-1300-10.
The opportunity is right there in front of them  
UberAlias : 5/26/2016 8:18 am : link
For all of that to happen. For the defensive guys starting, it says more about the lack of talent previously available than it does their being great players.

For Shepard, he probably sees a guy coming in as a pro ready receiver who should see a lot of time regardless of Cruz's situation, and thinks he can rack up a lot of catches playing out of the slot. I would bet any amount of money he's thinking PPR league with those comments.
Maybe because I'm OLD!  
GMen23 : 5/26/2016 10:09 am : link
But I respect the comments and analysis of Charlie on the NFL Network, and Polian, on ESPN, the most of all the talking heads out there.

Sheppard is gaining acclaim across all media outlets since the draft. I don't care if he is the WR 2, or the slot. Healthy, IMO, he will be #2 on the team in targets.

Goodson starting would week 1, might be more optimistic than I, by a month, but I would embrace it. We know what we have with Brinkley, and Herzlich. It's not enough production. Robinson? I see more situational, pass, in the middle, or on the outside.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: How much credibility should any GM who failed to support  
Gussi41 : 5/26/2016 12:54 pm : link
In comment 12970921 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 12970780 Gussi41 said:


Quote:


In comment 12970715 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 12970639 Gussi41 said:


Quote:


In comment 12970388 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 12970348 djstat said:


Quote:


In comment 12970346 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


a first overall draft QB and contributed to getting him sacked into oblivion have?

This is an ignorant and stupid comment. He picked up Tony Boselli and drafted him Andre Johnson. Another case of an idiot fan who does not do research. Ten Ton Hammer to your head it appears



Tony Boselli never played a game for Houston. Carr was drafted a year later. Take a walk.



Showing ignorance once again.. Boselli was drafted Feb 2002 in anticipation of Taking Carr 2 month later in April 2002..

Solid move, unless you can foresee a career ending shoulder injury..



Again, Tony Boselli never played a game for the texans.

David Carr was sacked 76, 15, 49, and 68 times in his first 4 years. Don't try to tell me that Tony Boselli is the excuse for getting your franchise QB ruined.




LOL.. Ok I'll keep it going.. My comment was in response to this idiotic statement:

"Tony Boselli never played a game for Houston. Carr was drafted a year later. Take a walk."

Fact - Tony Boselli was drafted 2 month before before Carr. Not 1 year like you mentioned
Fact - Tony Boselli never played bc he got hurt. You make it seem like the Boselli pickup was a bad move on Casserly's part, which it wasn't.



Here's my point: Forget Boselli. He failed to field a functional offensive line much less a good one. It doesn't fall on one player move not working out. What other GM gets a pass for ruining a QB? None.


Now that ... I can't argue with..
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