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NFT: New evidence linking cell phone use to cancer

Moondawg : 5/27/2016 9:21 am
Quote:
It's the moment we've all been dreading. Initial findings from a massive federal study, released on Thursday, suggest that radio-frequency (RF) radiation, the type emitted by cellphones, can cause cancer.

The findings from a $25 million study, conducted over two-and-a-half years by the National Toxicology Program (NTP), showed that male rats exposed to two types of RF radiation were significantly more likely than unexposed rats to develop a type of brain cancer called a glioma, and also had a higher chance of developing the rare, malignant form of tumor known as a schwannoma of the heart.



Link to full article below.
Since I beat up on Marx yesterday, here's a link to Mother Jones to make up for it - ( New Window )
i think that was a given, no?  
UConn4523 : 5/27/2016 9:24 am : link
rats given something they shouldn't in massive doses will cause some sort of problems. Not saying it should be dismissed, and I also haven't read that article, but does it say the amount given to the rats in relation to what the average person is exposed to?
RE: i think that was a given, no?  
Moondawg : 5/27/2016 9:24 am : link
In comment 12973399 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
rats given something they shouldn't in massive doses will cause some sort of problems. Not saying it should be dismissed, and I also haven't read that article, but does it say the amount given to the rats in relation to what the average person is exposed to?


The researchers said that the amount the rats was exposed to was meant to mirror the amount a human would face through regular cell phone use.
"Be careful with that phone lietenant  
djl8699 : 5/27/2016 9:27 am : link
in time you may develop a tumor"
Who would want to beat up on...  
BMac : 5/27/2016 9:35 am : link
...Groucho?
It would be good to  
Metnut : 5/27/2016 9:44 am : link
know if these tumor rates were rising in the general population. Also, most people these days don't spend too many minutes talking on the phone but spend more time texting and web surfing. I wonder if that would lower the amount of radiation exposure.
RE: It would be good to  
pjcas18 : 5/27/2016 9:48 am : link
In comment 12973426 Metnut said:
Quote:
know if these tumor rates were rising in the general population. Also, most people these days don't spend too many minutes talking on the phone but spend more time texting and web surfing. I wonder if that would lower the amount of radiation exposure.


texting (assuming the device is held away from your body) and using hands free devices reduces the exposure significantly. Holding the device to your head (like talking on a phone) provides the most exposure. the further the device is from your body the less exposure to the RF.
yeah i hate talking on my phone  
UConn4523 : 5/27/2016 10:07 am : link
I maybe use 30 minutes a month, if that. I mainly use my phone for internet. It is in my pocket quite a bit so i guess the whole testicular cancer thing is something to think about.
I hate talking on the phone anyway  
djm : 5/27/2016 10:08 am : link
This just cements my stance. Text me. If it's so important send two texts.
Why don't they link the study?  
Giants2012 : 5/27/2016 10:08 am : link
Shotty article to say the least. All it implies is RF "could" cause cancer without bothering to list the study details. I guess the cost was all the author understood. As if $25 million is a lot for a multi-billion dollar vertical.

Not saying RF=malignancy isn't true yet the article is extremely weak.
My first job out of college was in a project that was heavily RF  
jcn56 : 5/27/2016 10:10 am : link
based. The engineers would go to great lengths to shield themselves from what were essentially cellular transmissions with transmitters that were marginally more powerful than your average cell phone. They told all kinds of stories of colleagues dying from cancer or ending up with other ailments as a result of exposure.

Anecdotal evidence without a doubt, and I know other studies have vindicated cellular phones, but I'd rather play it safe and minimize their use.
too late I already have it  
micky : 5/27/2016 10:10 am : link
ugh
Dont sleep next to it  
spike : 5/27/2016 10:13 am : link
And dont carry it in your pocket/waist all day long.
RE: Dont sleep next to it  
pjcas18 : 5/27/2016 10:19 am : link
In comment 12973466 spike said:
Quote:
And dont carry it in your pocket/waist all day long.


sleep next to it if you want, but turn it off at night. maybe obvious, but while it's off it does not emit RF.
All you have to do is put on airplane mode  
jcn56 : 5/27/2016 10:22 am : link
and then reconnect to wifi if you're concerned about missing e-mails or want to listen to music. Airplane mode will disable the cell transmitter which is the main offender. You won't get texts or calls, of course, but if you get voicemails through e-mail you'll still get those in case of emergency.
motherjones.com  
jlukes : 5/27/2016 10:25 am : link
ok
I wonder what is considered normal usage  
widmerseyebrow : 5/27/2016 10:28 am : link
Because by today's standards that means almost never holding it by your head.
RE: motherjones.com  
Deej : 5/27/2016 10:32 am : link
In comment 12973482 jlukes said:
Quote:
ok


?
Zeke Emanuel on Morning Joe  
Deej : 5/27/2016 10:35 am : link
was pretty dismissive of the study. Basically, it's on rats. We can cause cancer on rats and cure cancer in rats in ways we cant in humans. Said study is helpful because we need more study of the issue, but brain cancer rates are down at statistically significant levels, which is hard to jive with cell phones causing cancer.

They have Zeke and another doctor on, but my impression is that the other doctor they have on isnt worth listening to (impression I've developed over 4-5 watchings -- he seems kind of dense and not on the level).
RE: yeah i hate talking on my phone  
njm : 5/27/2016 10:40 am : link
In comment 12973458 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
It is in my pocket quite a bit so i guess the whole testicular cancer thing is something to think about.


Wouldn't turning it off solve that problem?
RE: RE: yeah i hate talking on my phone  
UConn4523 : 5/27/2016 10:46 am : link
In comment 12973511 njm said:
Quote:
In comment 12973458 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


It is in my pocket quite a bit so i guess the whole testicular cancer thing is something to think about.



Wouldn't turning it off solve that problem?


I guess but then I don't see the point of having the phone at all. With a 9 month old at day care and work stuff, turning off the phone entirely just wouldn't work.
A good friend of mine just had an acoustic neuroma  
deeee : 5/27/2016 10:51 am : link
tumor removed, about the size of a golf ball near the side of his head where he used his cell phone most. He is now completely deaf in that ear for the rest of his life. He says it's preferable to the loud static he used to ear.

I believe this is same kind of tumor Joe Biden's son originally had that eventually led to his death.

This is serious stuff that I've researched for the last 5-6 years. There are numerous studies from other countries that have pointed to this for years. The US is behind. Some countries including Japan and Sweden have made it illegal to use cell phones on subways and buses due to second hand RF radiation.
I put mine in airplane mode when I'm carrying it  
deeee : 5/27/2016 10:54 am : link
as much as possible. Take it out of airplane mode to check messages. When I'm in my office, i place it a few feet away. When I use it I try to use the speaker phone as much as possible. The radiation does dissipate with distance.
The joke is that it's not terribly inconvenient to keep yourself safer  
jcn56 : 5/27/2016 10:58 am : link
Some of the things mentioned here won't impact you at all - don't use the phone to talk when you have a landline nearby, keep it off your person whenever possible (e.g., on a desk instead of in your pocket), don't sleep with it at night, turn on airplane mode whenever possible.
I understand this is no proof  
steve in ky : 5/27/2016 11:00 am : link
But I had an uncle that died from a brain tumor and long before many people did he got rid of his landline and used only his cell all the time. Always made me a little more cautious with overusing them.
just take the proper precautions and you'll be fine  
Greg from LI : 5/27/2016 11:01 am : link
THis is just the tip of the iceberg  
deeee : 5/27/2016 11:09 am : link
most people don't realize that wireless routers and cordless phone base stations broadcast RF at the same frequency as a microwave oven (about 2.4 GHz). Of course it's not the same power density, but studies have found chronic exposure of low levels can have several health effects.

I've done EMF surveys for clients and have found routers underneath beds and on the other side of walls from beds.

This one family had a daughter about 13ish who had chronic headaches and poor sleep (EMF reduce natural melatonin production). They spent over $2000 on medical diagnostics and found nothing. I did a survey and found high levels of RF in her bedroom. The source was a router and cordless base station in the family's home office in the adjacent room. I recommended they at least turn off the router and base station at night. Ideally, I recommend hard wiring with ethernet- it's safer, more secure and faster. And I recommend throwing away cordless phones. But, at least turn them off at night.

I could go on and on, but don't have time right now.
It hasn't been specifically mentioned  
Jay in Toronto : 5/27/2016 11:19 am : link
but I assume using headphones/earbuds lessens the risk?

Does bluetooth or hard-wired make a difference?
Cordless phones  
pjcas18 : 5/27/2016 11:20 am : link
and other devices also emit RF (less than cell phones, but still do).

And I believe airplane mode still emits some magnetic field, certainly a lot less dangerous, but turning it off is I believe the only way to prevent it completely (if that even prevents it)

the thing that scares me the most is the kids. and I don't know if it's medically sound or based on fact, but I believe it's more dangerous to children and the age they're getting devices is younger and younger.
I always use a bluetooth earpiece when I talk  
Moondawg : 5/27/2016 11:27 am : link
wired earpieces still transfer the radiation.
yes it is more dangerous for kids  
deeee : 5/27/2016 11:34 am : link
their skulls are thinner, their brains and neurological systems are developing etc. But that doesn't mean adults shouldn't also take it seriously.


Some EMF facts - ( New Window )
This Report Is So Typical Of  
Trainmaster : 5/27/2016 11:35 am : link
Notice how these reports almost never quote the exact risk numbers. It's always:

Quote:
"... were significantly more likely ..."


without any numbers quoted.



How is this a valid test?


Quote:
The highest radiation level was five to seven times as strong as what humans typically receive while using a phone.




Why isn't this the headline of the article:

Quote:
The researchers wrote that the results "appear to support" the conclusion that RF radiation may indeed be carcinogenic.



Or:

Quote:
... among male rats that received the highest radiation exposures, 2 percent to 3 percent contracted gliomas ...



What are the typical rates of this type cancer? 1 in 100,000? 1 in 1,000,000?


A very small percentage increase in a higher risk is much more significant.

About 30,000 people die each year in car accidents. Given a US population of about 300,000,000, that's a 1 in 10,000 risk.

Driving 5% faster (e.g. 63 MPH vs 60 MPH) is probably a much higher change in risk than this study indicates.

RE: THis is just the tip of the iceberg  
jcn56 : 5/27/2016 11:35 am : link
In comment 12973556 deeee said:
Quote:
most people don't realize that wireless routers and cordless phone base stations broadcast RF at the same frequency as a microwave oven (about 2.4 GHz). Of course it's not the same power density, but studies have found chronic exposure of low levels can have several health effects.

I've done EMF surveys for clients and have found routers underneath beds and on the other side of walls from beds.

This one family had a daughter about 13ish who had chronic headaches and poor sleep (EMF reduce natural melatonin production). They spent over $2000 on medical diagnostics and found nothing. I did a survey and found high levels of RF in her bedroom. The source was a router and cordless base station in the family's home office in the adjacent room. I recommended they at least turn off the router and base station at night. Ideally, I recommend hard wiring with ethernet- it's safer, more secure and faster. And I recommend throwing away cordless phones. But, at least turn them off at night.

I could go on and on, but don't have time right now.


Curious - what type of equipment do you use to conduct your EMF survey?
Sorry I can't continue to discuss  
deeee : 5/27/2016 11:35 am : link
I have to go. Going away for weekend with wife and kids. Hope everyone has a fun safe weekend.
RE: My first job out of college was in a project that was heavily RF  
Rick5 : 5/27/2016 11:36 am : link
In comment 12973462 jcn56 said:
Quote:
based. The engineers would go to great lengths to shield themselves from what were essentially cellular transmissions with transmitters that were marginally more powerful than your average cell phone. They told all kinds of stories of colleagues dying from cancer or ending up with other ailments as a result of exposure.

Anecdotal evidence without a doubt, and I know other studies have vindicated cellular phones, but I'd rather play it safe and minimize their use.

I spent the early part of my career as an engineer around ILS aviation transmitters. We didn't worry about it much back then. I'll probably be dead soon.
RE: I always use a bluetooth earpiece when I talk  
Jay in Toronto : 5/27/2016 11:36 am : link
In comment 12973584 Moondawg said:
Quote:
wired earpieces still transfer the radiation.


Evidence re wired?

Thanks
From meta-analysis  
deeee : 5/27/2016 11:41 am : link
This new study may contain newer data and I will try to find that, just don't have time right now. The following information relies on the combined results of many brain tumor/cell phone studies taken together (a meta-analysis of studies).

For people who have used a cell phone for 10 years or longer predominantly on one side of the head, there is a 200% increased risk of a brain tumor.

For people who have used a cell phone for 10 years or longer (when the cell phone is used on both sides of the head) there is a 20% increase risk.

For acoustic neuromas, with cell phone use at ten years and longer (when the cell phone is used mainly on one side of the head), there is a 240% increased risk!

Many if not all of the studies funded by the cell phone industry are carefully designed to leave out heavy users. And those are the studies the media usually uses to claim there is no link.
RE: RE: I always use a bluetooth earpiece when I talk  
Moondawg : 5/27/2016 11:44 am : link
In comment 12973598 Jay in Toronto said:
Quote:
In comment 12973584 Moondawg said:


Quote:


wired earpieces still transfer the radiation.



Evidence re wired?

Thanks


My friend who is an engineer has often said it to me. I looked it up and it seems like there are two answers given. 1. with bluetooth, the phone need not be on your person, and so wherever it is, it is away from your body. 2. Some wired cords can transmit radiation.

There is much discussion out there, but some sites seem a bit odd.

Here is a short one, with a pretty balanced take.

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/wired-headsets-emit-radiation-63176.html


and another here - ( New Window )
jcn  
deeee : 5/27/2016 11:44 am : link
I use a couple different meters, one for extremely low frequency (ELF) (60 Hz) magnetic fields and another for radio frequency.

Hmm  
Jay in Toronto : 5/27/2016 11:46 am : link
Moondawg may be right:

This link is ultimately related to a product, so I don't know how reliable it would be:

https://www.rfsafe.com/cell-phone-radiation-exposure-increases-using-wired-hands-free-headsets/

and in terms of EMF, bluetooth is hazardous as well:
https://elynjacobs.com/2013/04/25/are-your-headphones-an-emf-health-risk/

Finally, noting that this is based on cursory googling, this may be a credible resource http://www.ewg.org/research/cellphoneradiation/faq
though it definitely has a POV

ELF in addition to RF  
deeee : 5/27/2016 11:47 am : link
ELF is also something to be concerned about. Two quick recommendations: Push your laptop 3-4 feet away from your body and use a separate wired keyboard. A study years ago found high rates of breast cancer among seamstresses from using electric sewing machines. Laptops also emit high levels of ELF within close range.

Another tip re ELF, don't place a bed on other side of a wall from an appliance like a refrigerator. ELF magnetic fields have been linked to leukemia and other diseases, disorders.
gotta go  
deeee : 5/27/2016 11:48 am : link
Have great weekend!
Thanks Moondwg  
Jay in Toronto : 5/27/2016 11:50 am : link
How do you place multiple links in a post?
RE: Thanks Moondwg  
Moondawg : 5/27/2016 11:52 am : link
In comment 12973619 Jay in Toronto said:
Quote:
How do you place multiple links in a post?


you do this

[*url]PASTE LINK HERE[*/url]

But remove the asterisks. I had to put them or else what I wrote would look like

PASTE LINK HERE
RE: gotta go  
Moondawg : 5/27/2016 11:53 am : link
In comment 12973616 deeee said:
Quote:
Have great weekend!


Thanks for your contributions to this thread.
All your fools worrying about your precious little brains....  
NYDCBlue : 5/27/2016 3:43 pm : link
Who cares????

I carry my cell phone in my front pocket....
Does this mean I am going to be raising a generation of mutants?

You know, assuming I ever did, like, you know, do the doohickey with a fertile human woman and all....
I spent years working around radar frequencies of 2.9 and 9 mHz  
Greg from LI : 5/27/2016 3:53 pm : link
Guess I should just start planning the funeral now.
RE: All your fools worrying about your precious little brains....  
chris r : 5/27/2016 3:54 pm : link
In comment 12973966 NYDCBlue said:
Quote:
Who cares????

I carry my cell phone in my front pocket....
Does this mean I am going to be raising a generation of mutants?

You know, assuming I ever did, like, you know, do the doohickey with a fertile human woman and all....


You definitely told us?!
RE: I spent years working around radar frequencies of 2.9 and 9 mHz  
jhibb : 5/28/2016 6:56 pm : link
In comment 12973982 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Guess I should just start planning the funeral now.


I think you might actually have extra time for planning according to this study. The groups of rats that were exposed to the radiation lived longer on average than the control group.

RE: ELF in addition to RF  
Anakim : 5/28/2016 7:31 pm : link
In comment 12973614 deeee said:
Quote:
ELF is also something to be concerned about. Two quick recommendations: Push your laptop 3-4 feet away from your body and use a separate wired keyboard. A study years ago found high rates of breast cancer among seamstresses from using electric sewing machines. Laptops also emit high levels of ELF within close range.

Another tip re ELF, don't place a bed on other side of a wall from an appliance like a refrigerator. ELF magnetic fields have been linked to leukemia and other diseases, disorders.


I feel like I need to see your house and how you live. Haha, you do everything so radically different. I don't know how to replicate what you're doing aND avoid exposure to all these harmful things.
RE: RE: RE: I always use a bluetooth earpiece when I talk  
giants#1 : 5/29/2016 8:09 am : link
In comment 12973609 Moondawg said:
Quote:
In comment 12973598 Jay in Toronto said:


Quote:


In comment 12973584 Moondawg said:


Quote:


wired earpieces still transfer the radiation.



Evidence re wired?

Thanks



My friend who is an engineer has often said it to me. I looked it up and it seems like there are two answers given. 1. with bluetooth, the phone need not be on your person, and so wherever it is, it is away from your body. 2. Some wired cords can transmit radiation.

There is much discussion out there, but some sites seem a bit odd.

Here is a short one, with a pretty balanced take.

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/wired-headsets-emit-radiation-63176.html
and another here - ( New Window )


No offense, but your friend is a moron:

1. Bluetooth is a wireless standard which by definition is emitting but it's a couple orders of magnitude less power than cellphones. Keeping the cell father from your body won't work as it'll cause the Bluetooth to transmit at higher power defeating the entire purpose. No need for more than 1 meter separation.

2. If the wires are radiating that much, you'd have horrible call quality. It's likely a low power digital protocol between the headset and cell anyway, so even with"radiating cables" the magnitude will be well below that of even Bluetooth.

3. Not addressed to you but for those asking about testicular cancer, it's typically the heat from the batteries that are a bigger problem than the RF. So get a belt clip or put your phone on your desk when you're working.

In general, RF energy decreases at 1/r^2, so if you double the distance,the power stops by 1/4. When you hold the cell to your ear, it's antenna is, say, 2 inches from your brain. Put it on speaker and hold our in front of you, say, 8 inches away and you've reduced the power by 1/16.
RE: From meta-analysis  
Sarcastic Sam : 5/29/2016 4:41 pm : link
In comment 12973604 deeee said:
Quote:
This new study may contain newer data and I will try to find that, just don't have time right now. The following information relies on the combined results of many brain tumor/cell phone studies taken together (a meta-analysis of studies).

For people who have used a cell phone for 10 years or longer predominantly on one side of the head, there is a 200% increased risk of a brain tumor.

For people who have used a cell phone for 10 years or longer (when the cell phone is used on both sides of the head) there is a 20% increase risk.

For acoustic neuromas, with cell phone use at ten years and longer (when the cell phone is used mainly on one side of the head), there is a 240% increased risk!

Many if not all of the studies funded by the cell phone industry are carefully designed to leave out heavy users. And those are the studies the media usually uses to claim there is no link.


Acoustic neuromas are not cancerous. And rare enough that I would be surprised if that number is statistically significant.
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