The point of this thread is to have a place where we can speculate freely about Sunday night (and beyond) without worrying about whether our predictions are tainted by prior knowledge of the five novels or other material that Martin has blessed as canonical. You have insights from the books? Random Internet rumors based on interview slips or pictures of cast members on set? Post 'em here!
The only constraint, and it's more of a guideline, is not to post actual information from the episode. If some dumbass in the HBO International Subtitling Department leaks a script or video to Watchers on the Wall, just post a link and we can all decide for ourselves whether we want to see it.
I'll start with my top 10 semi-obvious predictions:
1. Bad night for the Tyrells;
2. Costly win for the Lannisters;
3. Tommen gets played by the Sparrow, but Margaery doesn't.
4. Uncle Benjen! Great to see you! Ummm... why so pale?
5 Bran harnesses enough of his powers to get back to the Tower of Joy, but not enough for a full Lyanna reveal;
6. Littlefinger double-crosses somebody;
7. Daenerys and Daario remain in walk-and-talk mode;
8. Tyrion tries to ride a new kind of dragon (Kinvara);
9. No f*cking clue what Arya will do at the theater, but her smile looks like she's pretty happy with her choice;
10. 10pm comes and goes, and Ramsay Bolton still isn't dead.
Death Pool Opening Odds:
Lady Crane 1-3
Bianca 1-2 (Arya has to kill somebody, right?)
Loras Tyrell 1-2
Olenna Tyrell 1-1 (biggest drop)
Mace Tyrell 1-1
Lyanna Stark* 3-2
Rickon Stark 2-1
Archmaester Pycelle 2-1
Margaery Tyrell 3-1
Kevan Lannister 3-1
Walder Frey 4-1
The Waif 4-1
Harald Karstark 5-1
Yohn Royce 5-1
Robin Arryn 6-1
Smalljon Umber 6-1
Petyr Baelish 7-1
Brienne of Tarth 8-1
Yara Greyjoy 10-1
Any Sand Snake 10-1
Ramsay Bolton 10-1
Benjen Stark 12-1
Theon Greyjoy 15-1
Brynden Tully 15-1
Jorah Mormont 15-1 (biggest improvement)
Tommen Baratheon 15-1
Frankenmountain 20-1
Meera Reed 20-1
Melisandre 20-1
Ashara Dayne* 20-1
Euron Greyjoy 25-1
Daario Naharis 25-1
Davos Seaworth 30-1
Varys 30-1
Grey Worm 40-1
Missandei 45-1
Cersei Lannister 50-1
Jaime Lannister 50-1
No Line: Daenerys Targaryen, Tyrion Lannister, Kinvara, Jon Snow, Arya Stark, Sansa Stark, Bran Stark, Tormund Giantsbane, Eddison Tollett, Gilly, Night's King, all members of House Tarly.
* - deceased
Looks like I will have to eat every fuckin chicken in here.
Who is the HS other target? Oleanna?
It's already episode 7, where the F is Ian McShane? This is no way to treat Al Swearengen. Wu would be pissed.
I believe he makes an appearance Sunday night based on IMDB which would probably confirm the re-emergence of the Hound aka "the Broken Man".
Quote:
Synopsis The High Sparrow considers another target; Jaime confronts a hero; Arya makes a plan; memories are awakened in the North.
Who is the HS other target? Oleanna?
It's already episode 7, where the F is Ian McShane? This is no way to treat Al Swearengen. Wu would be pissed.
I believe he makes an appearance Sunday night based on IMDB which would probably confirm the re-emergence of the Hound aka "the Broken Man".
Other Target
Frankenmountain.
Cersei already indicated she'd name him as her champion in trial by combat, if the HS comes after him I guess it could remove that possibility.
but the guy doesn't talk so he can't denounce any gods or commit blasphemy, he doesn't appear to be gay, so they don't have that angle.
What would they charge him with?
though now that Margery is "converted" (which I think is a ruse) maybe you're right and she gave him some manufactured lies about the Mountain to get him out of the way and Cersei to have no champion or one not as formidable.
Cersei will stike the Tyrell's, Margery will strike back and fulfill Maggy's prophesy. Either way, shit will go down in Kings landing - likely in the final episode where Bastardbowl is set for #9.
Meaning a death sentence for Cersi. Until Baelish rides in with the Knights of the Vale for the save and the Iron Throne for himself. Along with What's left of the kingdom sans the North.
His arc continues to be the most mysterious to me. Such a wildcard.
bad timing for Cersei.
Frankenmountain.
Qyburn's reanimated killing machine seems like a long shot for conversion to the Faith of the Seven. Maybe Frankenhound?
I do believe though Baelish will have some influence in how it turns out - positive or negative, I have severe doubts it will be him sitting on the throne though.
The challenge would be making it believable that Tommen would agree to do it. Maybe if Margaery maneuvered him into it? The problem for her is that if things go awry and Tommen dies, she's no longer Queen.
Who is Tommen's heir at this point anyway? Is there another legitimate Baratheon left alive? If Renly had just stayed in bed with Loras, the crown might have fallen onto his pillow.
I do believe though Baelish will have some influence in how it turns out - positive or negative, I have severe doubts it will be him sitting on the throne though.
Technically Littlefinger is noble born. He is lord of House Baelish. They are minor nobles, but technically still Nobles. His grandfather was a Hedge Knight that was granted a minor lordship.
On TV, he's fully functional, with a teenager's enthusiasm (and lack of ejaculatory restraint). As of the end of Book 5, I don't think he was ready to consummate yet.
In any case, I think Margaery's imprisonment would have been problematic for any pregnancy.
a charm.
Quote:
was low-born, I find it almost as unlikely he winds up in the iron throne as Varys.
I do believe though Baelish will have some influence in how it turns out - positive or negative, I have severe doubts it will be him sitting on the throne though.
Technically Littlefinger is noble born. He is lord of House Baelish. They are minor nobles, but technically still Nobles. His grandfather was a Hedge Knight that was granted a minor lordship.
Technically maybe, but he is not considered high-born and it's partly why he's so underestimated. In either case, I think it would be a stretch to see him claim the iron throne with so many others with better claims, better armies and no real allies that have loyalty to him.
from a wiki of ice and fire:
I wonder if lady stonehart comes back and he falls in love with her corpse/undead body.
I agree, he's not going anywhere.
And good call on Dany's arc, and while he's not responsible for that story line, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he knows what really happened at the TOJ and uses that in some way when introduced into the Dany story line.
I just can't figure out whose scheming wins, Varys or Littlefinger. Or in a wild shock, they're in cahoots - which I doubt, but you never know.
I wonder if lady stonehart comes back and he falls in love with her corpse/undead body.
I meant future descendants.
I could possibly see it happening on the show. Though, what kind of evidence would he have to present to either Jon or Dany?
Not as far as I know, Jon Arryn and Lysa
I could possibly see it happening on the show. Though, what kind of evidence would he have to present to either Jon or Dany?
I agree Littlefinger was most likely not at the TOJ, but Littlefinger is about 5 years younger than Ned. So, unless Ned was 16 at the TOJ I don't think the gap is as wide as you think but that's irrelevant.
The point is Littlefinger is resourceful, and more likely than not, knows Jon Snow's true identity and his relation to Dany (as cousins if you subscribe to the R+L=J theory, and even the Meera twin theory).
I think Varys knows too.
That's what I meant and Littlefinger could absolutely use that information to motivate/influence actions.
They could invent a different timeline in the show. In fact, they already have by putting him at the Tourney. So anything is possible with the show. I was speaking more from a book standpoint, I don't see a possibility in the source material.
I think we know that is unlikely even if it is a closely guarded secret.
Littlefinger learned the Lannister kids were the product of incest, didn't he? He used that to start a war.
I believe he knows the events at the TOJ as well.
They were Royalty Of course there is a a Midwife. Chances are she came apon hard times and worked in Baelish Brothel and ended up telling him who Jon And company really are?
Lyanna was ripped apart only Targs dragons do that.
Its Why he said to Sansa. HALF-brother.
I don't believe Jon Snow knows that he and Sansa are very possibly first cousins, not half-brother and sister.
Don't know. But only two people in Westeros knew the Lannister children were the product of incest and he somehow found that out too.
Ned was going to tell Jon Snow who his mother was when he visited him at the wall, I believe Jon Arryn knew and therefore Lysa knew and that's likely how Littlefinger found out.
I mean he convinced her to poison Jon Arryn, it's not a stretch to think she'd tell him something like that even before she told Catelyn.
Like a father figure or not, I don't see why would Ned tell Jon Arryn. Jon Arryn was Robert's Hand. The whole reason Ned claimed Jon as his son was to protect him from Robert's wrath. I don't see anything gained by telling Robert's Hand. There's no reason to.
how did that get out? Robert didn't even know. Simply looking more like your mother is not proof of incest.
So just because Ned and Howland were the only two people to know about the birth of Lyanna's child/children does not necessarily mean it was kept before them.
Some people theorize that while in the jail cells at King's Landing when Ned asks Varys to send a letter for him he possibly writes to Jon Snow with this information or even Howland.
Once the spider learns about it, believing Littlefinger knows it too is not a stretch at all.
and that assumes the only two survivors of TOJ - period - were Ned and Howland which we do not know to be true.
I don't disagree that Littlefinger may know this on the show. They've set it up and it makes sense especially if they never cast a current Howland. I would be very surprised if he had any idea at all in the books. By GRRM's own admission, it's an entirely different character than how he's portrayed in the show.
If you read what Martin says is different between show and book Littlefinger it makes it more believable IMO. and I can't explain the chain of how he knows, but I just believe there's a good chance he knows.
He was such a good character he needed more screen time, after Ned's head was lopped off it was hard to remain subtle and get the screen time he deserves so I understand what they did with him.
Probably will lack the confidence until the battle of the bastards. That will be his rise to Lord of Winterfell imo, he will kick ass that day and win the other lords over.