The point of this thread is to have a place where we can speculate freely about Sunday night (and beyond) without worrying about whether our predictions are tainted by prior knowledge of the five novels or other material that Martin has blessed as canonical. You have insights from the books? Random Internet rumors based on interview slips or pictures of cast members on set? Post 'em here!
The only constraint, and it's more of a guideline, is not to post actual information from the episode. If some dumbass in the HBO International Subtitling Department leaks a script or video to Watchers on the Wall, just post a link and we can all decide for ourselves whether we want to see it.
I'll start with my top 10 semi-obvious predictions:
1. Bad night for the Tyrells;
2. Costly win for the Lannisters;
3. Tommen gets played by the Sparrow, but Margaery doesn't.
4. Uncle Benjen! Great to see you! Ummm... why so pale?
5 Bran harnesses enough of his powers to get back to the Tower of Joy, but not enough for a full Lyanna reveal;
6. Littlefinger double-crosses somebody;
7. Daenerys and Daario remain in walk-and-talk mode;
8. Tyrion tries to ride a new kind of dragon (Kinvara);
9. No f*cking clue what Arya will do at the theater, but her smile looks like she's pretty happy with her choice;
10. 10pm comes and goes, and Ramsay Bolton still isn't dead.
Death Pool Opening Odds:
Lady Crane 1-3
Bianca 1-2 (Arya has to kill somebody, right?)
Loras Tyrell 1-2
Olenna Tyrell 1-1 (biggest drop)
Mace Tyrell 1-1
Lyanna Stark* 3-2
Rickon Stark 2-1
Archmaester Pycelle 2-1
Margaery Tyrell 3-1
Kevan Lannister 3-1
Walder Frey 4-1
The Waif 4-1
Harald Karstark 5-1
Yohn Royce 5-1
Robin Arryn 6-1
Smalljon Umber 6-1
Petyr Baelish 7-1
Brienne of Tarth 8-1
Yara Greyjoy 10-1
Any Sand Snake 10-1
Ramsay Bolton 10-1
Benjen Stark 12-1
Theon Greyjoy 15-1
Brynden Tully 15-1
Jorah Mormont 15-1 (biggest improvement)
Tommen Baratheon 15-1
Frankenmountain 20-1
Meera Reed 20-1
Melisandre 20-1
Ashara Dayne* 20-1
Euron Greyjoy 25-1
Daario Naharis 25-1
Davos Seaworth 30-1
Varys 30-1
Grey Worm 40-1
Missandei 45-1
Cersei Lannister 50-1
Jaime Lannister 50-1
No Line: Daenerys Targaryen, Tyrion Lannister, Kinvara, Jon Snow, Arya Stark, Sansa Stark, Bran Stark, Tormund Giantsbane, Eddison Tollett, Gilly, Night's King, all members of House Tarly.
* - deceased
me too, but the numbers are astronomical (in my head at least)
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In comment 12977039 Scyber said:
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In comment 12977031 UConn4523 said:
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it will be the biggest plot waste I've ever seen. They can't possibly do that, can they? I think its more likely she kills Waif and gets back in Hygar's good graces.
Why would it be a waste? For all we know she may be practically done with her training. The training (even if aborted) provides a way to explain her growth in fighting and other skills. If the expectation is that she will return to westeros and participate in future wars/battles, there had to be some way to explain her skills. Or should she have just returned completely unexplained a few year later and start kicking ass?
It would be a waste to have her join the theater troupe. Do we really need scenes of Richard E Grant yelling at her for improvising her lines?
Ahh..misread. Travelling with the troupe could provide 2 things though:
Additional learning about disguises. While she learned to change her appearance, she never learned how to put on someone else's face. The Acting troupe may provide help in "putting on someone else's face" without the FM magic (or whatever it is). Obviously not as good of a disguise, but it still could be a help.
Access. The theatre troupe could give her easy access to the castles of the Lords of Westeros that she wouldn't get on her own.
This sounds perfect to me. Arya is not going to check off her list by riding in and challenging people to a duel. That's neither feasible nor consistent with all the faceless men training. She needs an entree so that she can get close to a target and [quietly] dispatch them.
IMO, she's pretty much Scaramouche.
While initially I thought against it the acting troupe does provide a lot of access and I can totally see Arya playing Joffrey or getting disguised like him to kill Cersei - though I think that was wild speculation.
I hope they just skip to her getting back then - I can't take too much more backstage drama...
Cmon, how cool would it be for Arya to kill Cersei while wearing a Joffrey mask. It's completely unlike GRRM to give the readers that much satisfaction though.
That doesn't seem like coincidental storytelling to me.
I don't know. Maybe this a spoiler for the books and GRRM has created the biggest red herring in the character of Jon Snow and everyone's grand visions of who and what Jon will become will never come to pass, and he's just not that important anymore. I'd be surprised, especially given his parentage being the central mystery of this story but I wouldn't put something like that past GRRM either. We'll see.
I don't know. Maybe this a spoiler for the books and GRRM has created the biggest red herring in the character of Jon Snow and everyone's grand visions of who and what Jon will become will never come to pass, and he's just not that important anymore. I'd be surprised, especially given his parentage being the central mystery of this story but I wouldn't put something like that past GRRM either. We'll see.
If R+L=J is true, he has the best claim to the throne. Given what this story universe has shown us, does he seem fit to be king in temperament or ability?
Hell, Tyrion is the only one that has shown he can be a ruler.
If R+L=J is true, he has the best claim to the throne. Given what this story universe has shown us, does he seem fit to be king in temperament or ability?
Hell, Tyrion is the only one that has shown he can be a ruler.
Its shocking how little of Jon and Tyrion have been featured this season. They are 2 of the top 5 billed actors and everything points to them being in it for the long haul. Harrington isn't a very good actor but Jon Snow the character needs to be in the show more, especially after coming back to life. Tyrion is arguably the best actor on the show and simply needs more lines, a ton more in fact.
I loved Randall Tarly's dinner scene with same. That's GoT at its best, just completely destroyed him similarly to how Tywin used to verbally undress people. I hope we get a few more scenes with him.
If R+L=J is true, he has the best claim to the throne. Given what this story universe has shown us, does he seem fit to be king in temperament or ability?
I petty much agree with this for the show. Especially now. I don't think I'd find it believable anymore if Jon Snow became King. Not after how they've written him since his return. They way they've written him I half expect him to cry in a dark corner sobbing "why me" when he finds out his parentage and potential claim on the throne. And dragon riding? Does this season 6 Jon Snow character look like he could bond with a dragon to the point where he could ride it? With maybe only 13 episodes to go after this season?
As Olenna said, Tywin understood the importance of working with people he despised. Randyll is just a bigoted bully, who has treated Sam even more shabbily than Tywin treated Tyrion - and with far less cause.
The show misses Charles Dance. James Faulkner's Randyll is a poor substitute.
He's also going to be uncomfortable trying to regain Winterfell because he's always been a peripheral member of the household as a bastard. See the awkward silence when Sansa tries and fails to reassure him of his identity as a Stark when she compares him to Ramsay.
I have a feeling once Jon learns he's a Stark we'll see him regain that earlier hard-won confidence as Lord Commander. I doubt it happens before the battle for Winterfell so his involvement there and throughout these sales pitches in the next episode and beyond are going to be interesting.
He'll shake it off for Bastard Bowl, and for the Wars to Come. It's not as though there are any dragons around for him to ride at the moment.
The narrative has missed Tywin as well. The old veterans of the show have slowly been picked off and the intervening generation between Tywin and Olenna's and Jon and Dany's, i.e. Cersei's lot, is utterly mediocre, especially in positions of power. There were, of course, structural problems that weren't going to go away, but the crumbling of the political order that Tywin tried to build and maintain (despite ruthlessly trying to increase his influence in it) after Robert's Rebellion has been hastened by the poor political judgment of people like Cersei (and Ned Stark for that matter).
This isn't to turn GoT into a fantasy world analogy for the fall of the ancient regime or whatever, but it still is a pretty sophisticated political (and sociological) story.
The narrative has missed Tywin as well. The old veterans of the show have slowly been picked off and the intervening generation between Tywin and Olenna's and Jon and Dany's, i.e. Cersei's lot, is utterly mediocre, especially in positions of power. There were, of course, structural problems that weren't going to go away, but the crumbling of the political order that Tywin tried to build and maintain (despite ruthlessly trying to increase his influence in it) after Robert's Rebellion has been hastened by the poor political judgment of people like Cersei (and Ned Stark for that matter).
This isn't to turn GoT into a fantasy world analogy for the fall of the ancient regime or whatever, but it still is a pretty sophisticated political (and sociological) story.
Ash, what poor judgment did Ned exhibit? (unless you mean early on like flashbacks to TOJ or before GOT (the book)).
He was unwilling to "play" the game? Who he trusted?
I am sure I'm missing something, but on the surface at least he was set up by Littlefinger (and the Lannisters).
There is no book. Its who has the power.
That's not a literature principle either, we live it every day IRL.
2 questions. 1. Have we seen the last of Mel? 2. Why the departure from the books after the Kingsmoot?
Honestly, just having Euron send Asha and/or Theon to Mereen made more sense. She fills the Victarian role. Having the ships stolen and then building a thousand more is a really funky plot angle. I'm hoping there's a reason they are forced to do it.
2 questions. 1. Have we seen the last of Mel? 2. Why the departure from the books after the Kingsmoot?
Honestly, just having Euron send Asha and/or Theon to Mereen made more sense. She fills the Victarian role. Having the ships stolen and then building a thousand more is a really funky plot angle. I'm hoping there's a reason they are forced to do it.
Who knows? Maybe they just kept Gemma Whelan around for some hot girl-girl action.
The show hasn't visited a functioning brothel in months, though Tyrion did bring in a few bedslaves to entertain the Masters.
And his whole, beloved family wound up corpses, hostages, and/or fugitives. Winterfell has changed hands twice and is now held by a psychotic bastard who brutalized Ned's daughter. Ice has been melted down and reforged as a pair of Lannister swords (though Oathkeeper is back in the service of the Starks). Honorable or not, if he had it to do over again, I think Ned would play his cards differently.
Let's face it we knew Ned for one book, but I don't think under the same circumstances he'd act any differently. Mainly because he should have been able to foresee this somewhat or at least had been wary.
Most people would have been wary of Littlefinger under the circumstances to begin with, Ned being played by him shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Least of all Ned.
Now that I understand what he meant I agree with Ash about Ned's poor judgment, but he was more cut out to be Warden of the North than anywhere close to the Iron Throne. And poor judgment is simply his assumption that others shared his same sense of honor, which is very naive.
Either way, I don't think he couldn't play the game, I just think he had no interest in doing so.
His mishandling of the Lannisters, however, was sheer bumbling. Ned had witnessed Tywin's machinations during and after Robert's Rebellion; he knew all about House Reyne; and he certainly didn't expect honorable conduct from the Kingslayer or his sister-lover.
The problem wasn't that Ned refused to play the Game. As Cersei noted, the problem was that he was playing it badly, and not recognizing the real stakes. You win or you die.
Littlefinger is the one who challenged brandon stark to duel for Catelyn's hand. brandon spared his life, but he was banished from riverrun.
So, sure no hard feelings?
Letting Littlefinger get so close is Ned being naive.
Littlefinger convinced Lysa to poison Jon Arryn (hand of the kind) knowing Ned was likely to be picked to succeed Jon.
Littlefinger then brought the incestuous claims to Ned about Joffrey (and the other Lannister kids) once Robert died - and he had a good idea how Joffrey would react - leaving Catelyn to him.
Ned had to be blind not to see this.
I assumed this is what Ash meant.
Littlefinger also then orchestrated Joffrey's death.
I don't know his end game with the bolton's, Sansa, or the eyrie or the Vale, but I do believe he will have a pivotal role in how this whole thing ends.
His central mistake was taking Littlefinger's information and deciding to act on it without a) incontrovertible proof (hard to say whether he'd be able to find any) and, more importantly b) force to back up his claims or to protect him against Lannister retaliation against him and his family in King's Landing.
Some signs suggest that Kings Landing could be in for a tough time (wildfyre in Bran's visions) and at some point the dead have to be dealt with. Perhaps Kings Landing is in for a disaster and Daenerys will head north to battle the undead with her dragons and meet her doom.
As for this season - if Cleganebowl is to happen we'd best see Sandor again very soon. Hopefully this week. While they avoided disaster last week, I can't shake the feeling the Tyrell's are headed for a very, very bad time in Kings Landing. Probably Tommen too but that's hardly a surprise since they've already told us his fate.
and my wild prediction that likely won't come true... we DON'T find out all the truth of what happened at the TOJ this year but we will see Arya use the pointy end of needle on Walder Frey.
Looks like I will have to eat every fuckin chicken in here.