The video is really scary to watch, they don't show the shooting but they do show the Gorilla with the child.
Getting away from the, it should have never happened in the first place...If it got to that, I can't see myself not jumping in there as an instant reaction. However, I guess that could make it much worse.
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I'm not a fan of these pit displays where people can fall in, or adult holding a child up. Bronx Zoo has it right with a glass display where you can be right next to a gorilla.
Someone should have said something to the kid's parents.
The gorilla/kid went from one spot in the video and then after some editing, went to another spot around the corner
That's some scary stuff.
Other video - ( New Window )
the post of the year to date
Could have shot the child to protect the gorilla.
My thought exactly.
They said they didn't do that because it would take several minutes to take effect once they shot it in an animal that large
I think they take a little time to work on an animal that size and if the gorilla was dragging the kid around at that point which is what was reported they likely determined the child life was in danger and tranquilizing would be too risky.
Likely doesn't take effect quick enough would be my guess. Unless you have it way too much - which would kill it.
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But wouldn't a tranquilizer dart be a better option in a scenario like this?
I think they take a little time to work on an animal that size and if the gorilla was dragging the kid around at that point which is what was reported they likely determined the child life was in danger and tranquilizing would be too risky.
Ok gotcha. Shitty situation. Dumb fucking parents.
The parents should spend the rest of their lives in community service for wildlife conservation. We've all had our inattentive moments, but this is ridiculous. If reports are accurate, the kid made his intentions known, and still made his way into the enclosure.
And sorry to be that guy, but the "shoot the parents," stuff is lame. Yes they fucked up, but they're not the first parents to take their eyes off the kids for a second and have him wander off. Unfortunately in this case it led to a tragedy, but seems like a really insensitive angle and a very quick, condescending rush to judgment, IMO.
The whole thing is really terrible.
Actually, you're not right there. You lost track of your kid and didn't do your job as a parent.
Anyone else tempted to jump right in there and try to get your child? My instincts are taking over and I'm jumping right the fuck in there.
Kids can get lost or abducted in a crowded place like the zoo.
That's a depressing pill to swallow, but somehow we'll end up rewarding these idiots for shitty parenting.
Anyone here who thinks they've watched their 4 yo 60 seconds of every minute, 60 minutes of every hour, 24/7, is delusional.
we don't know the circumstances. Were the parents holding up the kid and over an enclosure barrier, such that he could bypass normal security measures? Or was a 4 yo able to, on his own, get into the enclosure? Zoos should anticipate either occurrence. Parents should reasonably expect that a 4 yo cannot get into a dangerous habitat at a zoo without adult help.
Anyone here who thinks they've watched their 4 yo 60 seconds of every minute, 60 minutes of every hour, 24/7, is delusional.
we don't know the circumstances. Were the parents holding up the kid and over an enclosure barrier, such that he could bypass normal security measures? Or was a 4 yo able to, on his own, get into the enclosure? Zoos should anticipate either occurrence. Parents should reasonably expect that a 4 yo cannot get into a dangerous habitat at a zoo without adult help.
How fucking hard is it to bring your kid to the zoo, and I don't know: NOt let him climb through a gate, through wire, then a 15 foot drop into a moat?
Stupid fucking people.
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about parenting going on here. with absolutely no information other than '4 yo squeezed through bars into gorilla cage', y'all can determine the parents are scum of the earth.
Anyone here who thinks they've watched their 4 yo 60 seconds of every minute, 60 minutes of every hour, 24/7, is delusional.
we don't know the circumstances. Were the parents holding up the kid and over an enclosure barrier, such that he could bypass normal security measures? Or was a 4 yo able to, on his own, get into the enclosure? Zoos should anticipate either occurrence. Parents should reasonably expect that a 4 yo cannot get into a dangerous habitat at a zoo without adult help.
How fucking hard is it to bring your kid to the zoo, and I don't know: NOt let him climb through a gate, through wire, then a 15 foot drop into a moat?
Stupid fucking people.
Yea, the "every second of every minute" thing might apply when you're at home or at a place you are familiar with, but I'd argue a zoo is the place you should definitely be watching your child every second of every minute.
Anyone here who thinks they've watched their 4 yo 60 seconds of every minute, 60 minutes of every hour, 24/7, is delusional.
we don't know the circumstances. Were the parents holding up the kid and over an enclosure barrier, such that he could bypass normal security measures? Or was a 4 yo able to, on his own, get into the enclosure? Zoos should anticipate either occurrence. Parents should reasonably expect that a 4 yo cannot get into a dangerous habitat at a zoo without adult help.
Agree, but as friendly advice, maybe when overlooking a gorrila cage, one should be watching their toddler closely during that particular time.
Looking to place blame?
Easy to do the morning after.
From the bit I saw on that link of the Gorilla gently touching the child, yeah. Gorilla.as calm and gentle.
Fucked up someone shot him.or her.
In another video? In another report? Based my comment on the link provided... and stated as much.
I know that as a parent stuff sometimes happens despite vigilance, caring and competence.
Found the "unedited" cut posted on the Cindy news channel, and while there's no evidence that the Gorilla was intentionally harming the boy (more the opposite, really) there's little question the Gorilla might have harmed the boy simply by how quickly and forcibly the Gorilla pulled the child around.
Tough call on the zookeepers there. A little surprised there was no one more intimate with the big primate who could devise a non lethal strategy to separate the ape and child. The ape had lived there for 17 years, someone must have known him or her pretty well.
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directed at you specifically. Yes, in one video the boy is being dragged around like a rag doll.
Found the "unedited" cut posted on the Cindy news channel, and while there's no evidence that the Gorilla was intentionally harming the boy (more the opposite, really) there's little question the Gorilla might have harmed the boy simply by how quickly and forcibly the Gorilla pulled the child around.
Tough call on the zookeepers there. A little surprised there was no one more intimate with the big primate who could devise a non lethal strategy to separate the ape and child. The ape had lived there for 17 years, someone must have known him or her pretty well.
So let's take that last sentence and ASSUME that the zoo keepers did know this animal more than any of us possibly could and made the decision based on what they knew about his past behavior?
Duh.
Some stuff is just obviously tragic involving animals. An imprisoned animal (let's assume he'd rather be in the jungle (or wherever) is minding its business during its incarceration (for the bad judgement of being born a gorilla) and stupid fucking parents let their kid get himself into a life or death situation due to their incompetent parenting.
The zoos need to also get better at separating animals from the audience.
So, this has nothing to do with PETA (though this case is one they can point to, to make their case), but one of tragedy and a clear depiction of how humans are pretty good at fucking things up for animals.
-PETA
"If the boy had exercised his Second Amendment rights and been armed, he could have easily defended himself."
-NRA
Absolutely.
The parents should spend the rest of their lives in community service for wildlife conservation. We've all had our inattentive moments, but this is ridiculous. If reports are accurate, the kid made his intentions known, and still made his way into the enclosure.
If I was King, I'd have the parents in jail for 2 years. Then off to 12 months of parenting school while they remain on probation.
Finally, I think 10 years, 8 hours per week of community service for wildlife conservation would be appropriate.
It was stated by many wild life officials that 1. It may have made the gorilla upset, putting the child at risk and 2. It would have took too long to take effect.
If the Gorilla had killed the child....The zoo would have been taking the blame for that. Ultimately zoos have to do a better job protecting the animals from stupid humans.
For those who would have "jumped in"...I'm sure that an adult would not easily fit through the same space as a 4 year old.
Interaction with a wild animal can't end well, and if this was your child, killing the gorilla is a no brainer.
That's the bottom line.
Should the mother have assumed that a 4-year-old playing in the vicinity of a well-fenced gorilla pen was in mortal danger? Why would she think that? I know that when I took my son to the Bronx or Central Park zoo (20 years ago, before enclosures were modernized), there were times when he got out of my line of sight. Kids at the zoo get hopped up on adrenaline, frequently.
Not once did I think he was going in to play with lions, tigers or gorillas. The zoo fucked up. Period.
And all of the commentators here and on twitter who assume they KNOW that the mother was being inattentive are just blowing off steam. They have no facts to back it up.
And think that if they so, God will just create a cloud to cool the car down.
Should the mother have assumed that a 4-year-old playing in the vicinity of a well-fenced gorilla pen was in mortal danger? Why would she think that? I know that when I took my son to the Bronx or Central Park zoo (20 years ago, before enclosures were modernized), there were times when he got out of my line of sight. Kids at the zoo get hopped up on adrenaline, frequently.
Not once did I think he was going in to play with lions, tigers or gorillas. The zoo fucked up. Period.
I agree with you. From what my wife has read and told me about, the mother was taking a quick picture for someone and told her child to hold onto her belt or something like that. But this wasn't the kid just wondering off, as he made his desire to go pet the gorilla known to his mom, which is why in the few moments that the mother was paying attention somewhere else, he made a b-line for the gorilla pen. And honestly, what parent would take their four year old's nonsensical talk about going to touch the gorilla seriously?
It's a tragic event that could have been far worse. However, any enclosure of a powerful and potentially dangerous animal that can be circumvented by a four year old is a fucking failure on the zoo's part.
Let's stop talking about how this mother needs to lose custody of her child until we know more about what kind of a mother she is. Sometimes good parents do get distracted for a few moments. It doesn't mean that they're terrible and should lose their children. Believe me it happens. As a father of two young kids, I've had my share of losing sight of my children for a few moments. And on rare occasions my one and a half year old boy has tried to wonder off. Thankfully neither of my kids have ever wanted to pet a dangerous animal.
That being said, and endangered animal was shot because she felt taking a picture was more important than looking after the kid. If I'm the zoo, I sue the lady.
That being said, and endangered animal was shot because she felt taking a picture was more important than looking after the kid. If I'm the zoo, I sue the lady.
Maybe she expected too much from her four year old to listen to her, which was her mistake of not knowing what her son was capable of. However, the zoo's enclosure is an abysmal failure if a child can outsmart it, especially one housing an endangered but definitely powerful animal.
And you can't look after your child 100% all the time. Believe me, it is not possible. And if you have a kid with the desire to go somewhere fast, even a quick distraction can result in some shit situation. It's tragic what happened. But the pitchfork being brought out seems unwarranted in my opinion, especially after reading what happened prior to the incident where the mother wasn't negligent as some want to make her out to be.
Right now the identity of the parent and child are unknown. If I'm the mother, I thank my lucky stars that my child is safe, and leave it at that. I wouldn't want to attract any more attention to myself.
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I'll say 10 days...
Right now the identity of the parent and child are unknown. If I'm the mother, I thank my lucky stars that my child is safe, and leave it at that. I wouldn't want to attract any more attention to myself.
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
If the Gorilla had killed the child....The zoo would have been taking the blame for that. Ultimately zoos have to do a better job protecting the animals from stupid humans.
The Gorilla was already paying the price...ya know, being locked up in a small enclosure and not having a troop or normal social interaction.
Although it is quite the experience to see these animals in person, zoos are pretty archaic and frankly more torture than anything else for many of the species in captivity.
This was my take on the situation as well. I think people have a hard time accepting that shit happens. It's possible that this woman wasn't a shitty parent, that the zoo did the right thing albeit the very difficult one, and that this was all just an extremely unfortunate event that could have been prevented by wasn't. Why someone needs to be dragged out and flogged is beyond me, as all of these people are already suffering in one way or another.
“She had three other kids that she was with. She had a baby in her arms,” said Ms. Nicely, 29, who has two children of her own.
The boy had made his move and was in the pen in “the blink of an eye,” she said.
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Brittany Nicely was standing nearby on Saturday when the boy fell into the pen. She said it had all happened very fast. The mother, she said, had not been neglectful.
“She had three other kids that she was with. She had a baby in her arms,” said Ms. Nicely, 29, who has two children of her own.
The boy had made his move and was in the pen in “the blink of an eye,” she said.
That doesn't fit the convenient narratives and Hot Takes.
Now, where is my buy one get one pitchfork coupon?
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but c'mon... As a parent who would probably be considered a "helicopter parent" on BBI, I have to chime in here. It only takes a second or 2 to do what the child did according to reports I saw this morning. That's a quick glance down at the gorillas. Let's drop the pitchforks here guys. It's just a shitty situation all around.
This was my take on the situation as well. I think people have a hard time accepting that shit happens. It's possible that this woman wasn't a shitty parent, that the zoo did the right thing albeit the very difficult one, and that this was all just an extremely unfortunate event that could have been prevented by wasn't. Why someone needs to be dragged out and flogged is beyond me, as all of these people are already suffering in one way or another.
This has been my thought as well.
Could she have done a better job of being attentive? Probably. However, if this had happened near another enclosure, nothing would have happened. This was an unfortunate case of the perfect storm of events leading to a tragic outcome.
What kills me is people with no experience trying to keep watch over rambunctious and hyper kids being the harshest critics. We see that on social media and even on this thread. A mere few seconds of being distracted can lead to shitty situations. Doesn't mean that the parents are negligent or should lose custody.
Although it is quite the experience to see these animals in person, zoos are pretty archaic and frankly more torture than anything else for many of the species in captivity.
When did you turn into a PETA rep, Cam? Not disagreeing with you, but just funny seeing this from you.
You know how many stupid shit that my daughter has said to me that I didn't take seriously? If parents take every single thing that their four year old said to them seriously, no parent would get a wink of sleep. Give me a break.
Kids say stupid shit all the time. Why would anyone have a reasonable expectation that a 4 year old could even get into the gorilla enclosure? Especially in that short a time.
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dragging the child around the enclosure. halo-effect much?
What is your douchey angle? Upset over everything in life? Contrarian, radar take on everything? Or just an asshole?
That's cold blooded...leatherneck is a jerk but not radar level jerk.
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The Gorilla was already paying the price...ya know, being locked up in a small enclosure and not having a troop or normal social interaction.
Although it is quite the experience to see these animals in person, zoos are pretty archaic and frankly more torture than anything else for many of the species in captivity.
When did you turn into a PETA rep, Cam? Not disagreeing with you, but just funny seeing this from you.
Can't stand PETA.
Read up a bit on zoos. Talk to zookeepers at your local zoo. Many of the animals are incredibly difficult to keep healthy because they're constantly fighting depression.
Folks have a difficult time understanding/admitting just how much like us most mammals are...emotionally at least.
Don't get me wrong- I love me some beef and pork. That doesn't mean I can't acknowledge that cows and pigs (and most other mammals) are capable of most of the same emotions that we feel...they're just tastier.
The saddest as far as captivity goes IMO, are the elephants and apes. Those species share basically the whole spectrum of emotion that we have, and are much more intelligent than people like to admit...(although it isn't the intelligence part that folks struggle with the most- it's the emotional part that gets overlooked so that we don't feel guilty about confining them). Hell, Ringling Brothers just a recently took elephants out of their shows for good, because it is a miserable existence for those animals, no matter how well we try to treat them.
Humans on the other hand- well fuck them. They suck.
Billy stopped.
And a city bus cruised right past the back of the van.
I'm lucky the kid stopped.
BBI would've had my head on a stick.
Billy stopped.
And a city bus cruised right past the back of the van.
I'm lucky the kid stopped.
BBI would've had my head on a stick.
I hear you. We were at the mall and while my wife was getting her eye brows threaded, I had walked into a nearby store where my five year old daughter and my one and half year old son could play with beanbag chairs. I turned around for a moment to tell my daughter to stop throwing things and when I turned around, my son had disappeared. My heart dropped as I picked up my daughter and ran out the door to look for him. Thankfully, my wife had caught him as he was turning right outside the door. It took maybe three seconds for my son to make a break for it. It seriously just takes a moment. And yes, some on BBI would clamor to have me lose custody of my kids for that.
That was a trip to the hospital and a cat scan.
He was OK - but again, with little one's, crazy shit like that is ALWAYS in play.
Don't judge without details. I've seen PLENTY of horrifically bad parenting, but stuff like this gorilla deal? Who knows?
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In a busy mall parking lot - I unbuckled him from his baby seat, set him on the ground, grabbed the door handle to slide it shut - Billy slipped his hand from mine and SPRINTED toward the back of the van. I screamed at him to STOP at the top of my lungs.
Billy stopped.
And a city bus cruised right past the back of the van.
I'm lucky the kid stopped.
BBI would've had my head on a stick.
I hear you. We were at the mall and while my wife was getting her eye brows threaded, I had walked into a nearby store where my five year old daughter and my one and half year old son could play with beanbag chairs. I turned around for a moment to tell my daughter to stop throwing things and when I turned around, my son had disappeared. My heart dropped as I picked up my daughter and ran out the door to look for him. Thankfully, my wife had caught him as he was turning right outside the door. It took maybe three seconds for my son to make a break for it. It seriously just takes a moment. And yes, some on BBI would clamor to have me lose custody of my kids for that.
Getting her eyebrows what?
Quote:
In comment 12977120 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
In a busy mall parking lot - I unbuckled him from his baby seat, set him on the ground, grabbed the door handle to slide it shut - Billy slipped his hand from mine and SPRINTED toward the back of the van. I screamed at him to STOP at the top of my lungs.
Billy stopped.
And a city bus cruised right past the back of the van.
I'm lucky the kid stopped.
BBI would've had my head on a stick.
I hear you. We were at the mall and while my wife was getting her eye brows threaded, I had walked into a nearby store where my five year old daughter and my one and half year old son could play with beanbag chairs. I turned around for a moment to tell my daughter to stop throwing things and when I turned around, my son had disappeared. My heart dropped as I picked up my daughter and ran out the door to look for him. Thankfully, my wife had caught him as he was turning right outside the door. It took maybe three seconds for my son to make a break for it. It seriously just takes a moment. And yes, some on BBI would clamor to have me lose custody of my kids for that.
Getting her eyebrows what?
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In comment 12976106 leatherneck570 said:
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dragging the child around the enclosure. halo-effect much?
What is your douchey angle? Upset over everything in life? Contrarian, radar take on everything? Or just an asshole?
That's cold blooded...leatherneck is a jerk but not radar level jerk.
eh, he pretty much nailed it.
Source?
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That doesn't mean I can't acknowledge that cows and pigs (and most other mammals) are capable of most of the same emotions that we feel...they're just tastier.
Source?
Your mom?
I just threw up. JFC, put some kind of warning on posts like that. This isn't liveleak, you sick fuck.
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Quote:
That doesn't mean I can't acknowledge that cows and pigs (and most other mammals) are capable of most of the same emotions that we feel...they're just tastier.
Source?
Your mom?
Most women who take care of themselves do this. Good for Ronnie.
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that do the eyebrow threading, I didn't know people actually got it done?
Most women who take care of themselves do this. Good for Ronnie.
Misogynist.
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that do the eyebrow threading, I didn't know people actually got it done?
Most women who take care of themselves do this. Good for Ronnie.
And here's the expert on women who take care of themselves...
Quote:
In comment 12977193 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Quote:
That doesn't mean I can't acknowledge that cows and pigs (and most other mammals) are capable of most of the same emotions that we feel...they're just tastier.
Source?
Your mom?
You're right, but I haven't even spoken to your mom in like twenty-something years so I don't think she counts as one anymore.
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In comment 12977120 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
In a busy mall parking lot - I unbuckled him from his baby seat, set him on the ground, grabbed the door handle to slide it shut - Billy slipped his hand from mine and SPRINTED toward the back of the van. I screamed at him to STOP at the top of my lungs.
Billy stopped.
And a city bus cruised right past the back of the van.
I'm lucky the kid stopped.
BBI would've had my head on a stick.
I hear you. We were at the mall and while my wife was getting her eye brows threaded, I had walked into a nearby store where my five year old daughter and my one and half year old son could play with beanbag chairs. I turned around for a moment to tell my daughter to stop throwing things and when I turned around, my son had disappeared. My heart dropped as I picked up my daughter and ran out the door to look for him. Thankfully, my wife had caught him as he was turning right outside the door. It took maybe three seconds for my son to make a break for it. It seriously just takes a moment. And yes, some on BBI would clamor to have me lose custody of my kids for that.
Getting her eyebrows what?
It's an ancient way of removing unwanted hair. Some of you neanderthal looking motherf'ers can probably use it to clean up your bushy eyebrows...:)
...
In threading, a thin (cotton or polyester) thread is doubled, then twisted. It is then rolled over areas of unwanted hair, plucking the hair at the follicle level. Unlike tweezing, where single hairs are pulled out one at a time, threading can remove short lines of hair.
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
In comment 12977140 RC02XX said:
Quote:
In comment 12977120 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
In a busy mall parking lot - I unbuckled him from his baby seat, set him on the ground, grabbed the door handle to slide it shut - Billy slipped his hand from mine and SPRINTED toward the back of the van. I screamed at him to STOP at the top of my lungs.
Billy stopped.
And a city bus cruised right past the back of the van.
I'm lucky the kid stopped.
BBI would've had my head on a stick.
I hear you. We were at the mall and while my wife was getting her eye brows threaded, I had walked into a nearby store where my five year old daughter and my one and half year old son could play with beanbag chairs. I turned around for a moment to tell my daughter to stop throwing things and when I turned around, my son had disappeared. My heart dropped as I picked up my daughter and ran out the door to look for him. Thankfully, my wife had caught him as he was turning right outside the door. It took maybe three seconds for my son to make a break for it. It seriously just takes a moment. And yes, some on BBI would clamor to have me lose custody of my kids for that.
Getting her eyebrows what?
It's an ancient way of removing unwanted hair. Some of you neanderthal looking motherf'ers can probably use it to clean up your bushy eyebrows...:)
Quote:
Threading is a method of hair removal originating in Asia. In more recent times it has gained popularity in Western countries, especially with a cosmetic application (particularly for removing/shaping eyebrows).
...
In threading, a thin (cotton or polyester) thread is doubled, then twisted. It is then rolled over areas of unwanted hair, plucking the hair at the follicle level. Unlike tweezing, where single hairs are pulled out one at a time, threading can remove short lines of hair.
Link - ( New Window )
Thank the gods your wife takes care of herself. I wish mine did. 😞
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In comment 12977166 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 12977140 RC02XX said:
Quote:
In comment 12977120 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
In a busy mall parking lot - I unbuckled him from his baby seat, set him on the ground, grabbed the door handle to slide it shut - Billy slipped his hand from mine and SPRINTED toward the back of the van. I screamed at him to STOP at the top of my lungs.
Billy stopped.
And a city bus cruised right past the back of the van.
I'm lucky the kid stopped.
BBI would've had my head on a stick.
I hear you. We were at the mall and while my wife was getting her eye brows threaded, I had walked into a nearby store where my five year old daughter and my one and half year old son could play with beanbag chairs. I turned around for a moment to tell my daughter to stop throwing things and when I turned around, my son had disappeared. My heart dropped as I picked up my daughter and ran out the door to look for him. Thankfully, my wife had caught him as he was turning right outside the door. It took maybe three seconds for my son to make a break for it. It seriously just takes a moment. And yes, some on BBI would clamor to have me lose custody of my kids for that.
Getting her eyebrows what?
It's an ancient way of removing unwanted hair. Some of you neanderthal looking motherf'ers can probably use it to clean up your bushy eyebrows...:)
Quote:
Threading is a method of hair removal originating in Asia. In more recent times it has gained popularity in Western countries, especially with a cosmetic application (particularly for removing/shaping eyebrows).
...
In threading, a thin (cotton or polyester) thread is doubled, then twisted. It is then rolled over areas of unwanted hair, plucking the hair at the follicle level. Unlike tweezing, where single hairs are pulled out one at a time, threading can remove short lines of hair.
Link - ( New Window )
Thank the gods your wife takes care of herself. I wish mine did. 😞
leatherneck's wife:
Good for Ronnie.
Quote:
In comment 12977166 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 12977140 RC02XX said:
Quote:
In comment 12977120 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
In a busy mall parking lot - I unbuckled him from his baby seat, set him on the ground, grabbed the door handle to slide it shut - Billy slipped his hand from mine and SPRINTED toward the back of the van. I screamed at him to STOP at the top of my lungs.
Billy stopped.
And a city bus cruised right past the back of the van.
I'm lucky the kid stopped.
BBI would've had my head on a stick.
I hear you. We were at the mall and while my wife was getting her eye brows threaded, I had walked into a nearby store where my five year old daughter and my one and half year old son could play with beanbag chairs. I turned around for a moment to tell my daughter to stop throwing things and when I turned around, my son had disappeared. My heart dropped as I picked up my daughter and ran out the door to look for him. Thankfully, my wife had caught him as he was turning right outside the door. It took maybe three seconds for my son to make a break for it. It seriously just takes a moment. And yes, some on BBI would clamor to have me lose custody of my kids for that.
Getting her eyebrows what?
It's an ancient way of removing unwanted hair. Some of you neanderthal looking motherf'ers can probably use it to clean up your bushy eyebrows...:)
Quote:
Threading is a method of hair removal originating in Asia. In more recent times it has gained popularity in Western countries, especially with a cosmetic application (particularly for removing/shaping eyebrows).
...
In threading, a thin (cotton or polyester) thread is doubled, then twisted. It is then rolled over areas of unwanted hair, plucking the hair at the follicle level. Unlike tweezing, where single hairs are pulled out one at a time, threading can remove short lines of hair.
Link - ( New Window )
Thank the gods your wife takes care of herself. I wish mine did. 😞
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In comment 12977189 leatherneck570 said:
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that do the eyebrow threading, I didn't know people actually got it done?
Most women who take care of themselves do this. Good for Ronnie.
And here's the expert on women who take care of themselves...
I roll with classy ladies. Sorry if you don't.
-Fekker Out
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In comment 12977253 RC02XX said:
Quote:
In comment 12977166 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 12977140 RC02XX said:
Quote:
In comment 12977120 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
In a busy mall parking lot - I unbuckled him from his baby seat, set him on the ground, grabbed the door handle to slide it shut - Billy slipped his hand from mine and SPRINTED toward the back of the van. I screamed at him to STOP at the top of my lungs.
Billy stopped.
And a city bus cruised right past the back of the van.
I'm lucky the kid stopped.
BBI would've had my head on a stick.
I hear you. We were at the mall and while my wife was getting her eye brows threaded, I had walked into a nearby store where my five year old daughter and my one and half year old son could play with beanbag chairs. I turned around for a moment to tell my daughter to stop throwing things and when I turned around, my son had disappeared. My heart dropped as I picked up my daughter and ran out the door to look for him. Thankfully, my wife had caught him as he was turning right outside the door. It took maybe three seconds for my son to make a break for it. It seriously just takes a moment. And yes, some on BBI would clamor to have me lose custody of my kids for that.
Getting her eyebrows what?
It's an ancient way of removing unwanted hair. Some of you neanderthal looking motherf'ers can probably use it to clean up your bushy eyebrows...:)
Quote:
Threading is a method of hair removal originating in Asia. In more recent times it has gained popularity in Western countries, especially with a cosmetic application (particularly for removing/shaping eyebrows).
...
In threading, a thin (cotton or polyester) thread is doubled, then twisted. It is then rolled over areas of unwanted hair, plucking the hair at the follicle level. Unlike tweezing, where single hairs are pulled out one at a time, threading can remove short lines of hair.
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Thank the gods your wife takes care of herself. I wish mine did. ��
leatherneck's wife:
Oh boy, I wish!
Good for Ronnie.
Well...my wife isn't Asian...so...yeah.
I actually had a woman stop in the mall and read me the riot act once - about how it was inhumane, it was sending the kids the wrong message, etc. I waited for her to finish her rant to show her that my son wasn't leashed, he was just holding the end of a retractable leash (fooling around) as we were walking to pick up my friend and his dog from the vet. I don't think I've ever seen anyone turn that red before.
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There were quite a few people who screamed about what kind of horrible parent would use such a thing, how dehumanizing it was, how lazy, etc etc. My wife and I had one for my son for the simple reason that he was fast, elusive, and curious about EVERYTHING. He would bolt at the drop of a hat if something caught his eye. No matter how attentive a parent is, there is no way to keep positive control of a particularly adventurous 3-4-5 year old at all times in busy public places. I can strongly sympathize with the parents of this Cincinnati boy because my son was the same way, and in no way do I consider my wife and I negligent parents. That's why we had him wear his little bear backpack with a strap we could hang on to, so he couldn't pull a Houdini on us.
I actually had a woman stop in the mall and read me the riot act once - about how it was inhumane, it was sending the kids the wrong message, etc. I waited for her to finish her rant to show her that my son wasn't leashed, he was just holding the end of a retractable leash (fooling around) as we were walking to pick up my friend and his dog from the vet. I don't think I've ever seen anyone turn that red before.
Ha.
I usually just get weird looks when I have the wife on a leash. Of course we generally aren't in public. Sometimes she'll wear the collar out, though.
Damn Cryppy...good for him! Maybe one day I'll run into him if he gets stationed here in Maryland.
I usually just get weird looks when I have the wife on a leash. Of course we generally aren't in public. Sometimes she'll wear the collar out, though.
And it happened.
njm, let him know he messed up. The air wing is where it's at!
I assumed the woman next to me was the mother, getting ready to grab him until she says, “Whose kid is this? “ None of us actually thought he’d go over the nearly 15 foot drop, but he was crawling so fast through the bushes before myself or husband could grab him, he went over! The crowd got a little frantic and the mother was calling for her son. Actually, just prior to him going over, but she couldn’t see him crawling through the bushes! She said “He was right here! I took a pic and his hand was in my back pocket and then gone!”
As she could find him nowhere, she looks to my husband (already over the railing talking to the child) and asks, “Sir, is he wearing green shorts? “ My husband reluctantly had to tell her yes, when she then nearly had a break down! They are both wanting to go over into the 15 foot drop, when I forbade my husband to do so, and attempted to calm the mother by calling 911 and assure her help was on the way. Neither my husband or the mother would have made that jump without breaking something! I wasn’t leaving with my boys, because I didn’t trust my husband not to jump in and the gorilla did just seem to be protective of the child. It wasn’t until the gorilla became agitated because of the noisy, dramatic, helpless crowd; that the gorilla violently ran with the child! And it was very violent; although I think the gorilla was still trying to protect, we’re taking a 400 lb gorilla throwing a 40 lb toddler around! It was horrific!
The zoo responded very quickly, clearing the area and attempting to save both the child and the gorilla! The right choice was made. Thank God the child survived with non-life threatening, but serious injuries! This was an open exhibit! Which means the only thing separating you from the gorillas, is a 15 ish foot drop and a moat and some bushes!! This mother was not negligent and the zoo did an awesome job handling the situation! Especially since that had never happened before! ! Thankful for the zoo and their attempts and my thoughts and prayers goes out to this boy, his mother and his family.
This is the first incident at that exhibit in 38 years. So what, exactly, should either the zoo or the mother have done differently?
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For those of you that have already heard, there was a terrible accident there yesterday. And since every news media has covered this story, I don’t feel bad telling our side. This was an accident!! A terrible accident, but just that! My husband’s voice is the voice talking to the child in one of the videos. I was taking a pic of the female gorilla, when my eldest son yells, “what is he doing? “ I looked down, and to my surprise, there was a small child that had apparently, literally “flopped” over the railing, where there was then about 3 feet of ground that the child quickly crawled through!!
I assumed the woman next to me was the mother, getting ready to grab him until she says, “Whose kid is this? “ None of us actually thought he’d go over the nearly 15 foot drop, but he was crawling so fast through the bushes before myself or husband could grab him, he went over! The crowd got a little frantic and the mother was calling for her son. Actually, just prior to him going over, but she couldn’t see him crawling through the bushes! She said “He was right here! I took a pic and his hand was in my back pocket and then gone!”
As she could find him nowhere, she looks to my husband (already over the railing talking to the child) and asks, “Sir, is he wearing green shorts? “ My husband reluctantly had to tell her yes, when she then nearly had a break down! They are both wanting to go over into the 15 foot drop, when I forbade my husband to do so, and attempted to calm the mother by calling 911 and assure her help was on the way. Neither my husband or the mother would have made that jump without breaking something! I wasn’t leaving with my boys, because I didn’t trust my husband not to jump in and the gorilla did just seem to be protective of the child. It wasn’t until the gorilla became agitated because of the noisy, dramatic, helpless crowd; that the gorilla violently ran with the child! And it was very violent; although I think the gorilla was still trying to protect, we’re taking a 400 lb gorilla throwing a 40 lb toddler around! It was horrific!
The zoo responded very quickly, clearing the area and attempting to save both the child and the gorilla! The right choice was made. Thank God the child survived with non-life threatening, but serious injuries! This was an open exhibit! Which means the only thing separating you from the gorillas, is a 15 ish foot drop and a moat and some bushes!! This mother was not negligent and the zoo did an awesome job handling the situation! Especially since that had never happened before! ! Thankful for the zoo and their attempts and my thoughts and prayers goes out to this boy, his mother and his family.
This is the first incident at that exhibit in 38 years. So what, exactly, should either the zoo or the mother have done differently? Link - ( New Window )
What the zoo maybe could have done differently is make it harder for a 3 year old to get in. But people with their hilariously overblown takes on the mother and her fault are fools...
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For those of you that have already heard, there was a terrible accident there yesterday. And since every news media has covered this story, I don’t feel bad telling our side. This was an accident!! A terrible accident, but just that! My husband’s voice is the voice talking to the child in one of the videos. I was taking a pic of the female gorilla, when my eldest son yells, “what is he doing? “ I looked down, and to my surprise, there was a small child that had apparently, literally “flopped” over the railing, where there was then about 3 feet of ground that the child quickly crawled through!!
I assumed the woman next to me was the mother, getting ready to grab him until she says, “Whose kid is this? “ None of us actually thought he’d go over the nearly 15 foot drop, but he was crawling so fast through the bushes before myself or husband could grab him, he went over! The crowd got a little frantic and the mother was calling for her son. Actually, just prior to him going over, but she couldn’t see him crawling through the bushes! She said “He was right here! I took a pic and his hand was in my back pocket and then gone!”
As she could find him nowhere, she looks to my husband (already over the railing talking to the child) and asks, “Sir, is he wearing green shorts? “ My husband reluctantly had to tell her yes, when she then nearly had a break down! They are both wanting to go over into the 15 foot drop, when I forbade my husband to do so, and attempted to calm the mother by calling 911 and assure her help was on the way. Neither my husband or the mother would have made that jump without breaking something! I wasn’t leaving with my boys, because I didn’t trust my husband not to jump in and the gorilla did just seem to be protective of the child. It wasn’t until the gorilla became agitated because of the noisy, dramatic, helpless crowd; that the gorilla violently ran with the child! And it was very violent; although I think the gorilla was still trying to protect, we’re taking a 400 lb gorilla throwing a 40 lb toddler around! It was horrific!
The zoo responded very quickly, clearing the area and attempting to save both the child and the gorilla! The right choice was made. Thank God the child survived with non-life threatening, but serious injuries! This was an open exhibit! Which means the only thing separating you from the gorillas, is a 15 ish foot drop and a moat and some bushes!! This mother was not negligent and the zoo did an awesome job handling the situation! Especially since that had never happened before! ! Thankful for the zoo and their attempts and my thoughts and prayers goes out to this boy, his mother and his family.
This is the first incident at that exhibit in 38 years. So what, exactly, should either the zoo or the mother have done differently? Link - ( New Window )
What the zoo maybe could have done differently is make it harder for a 3 year old to get in. But people with their hilariously overblown takes on the mother and her fault are fools...
..."literally flopped over the fence..." is vague.
From a legal standpoint, this may be strict liability but not sure if there wasn't some parental neglect.
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that the gorilla violently ran with the child! And it was very violent; although I think the gorilla was still trying to protect, we’re taking a 400 lb gorilla throwing a 40 lb toddler around! It was horrific!
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that the gorilla violently ran with the child! And it was very violent; although I think the gorilla was still trying to protect, we’re taking a 400 lb gorilla throwing a 40 lb toddler around! It was horrific!
FYI, an average size chimp could probably rip "The Mountain"'s (from GoT) arms off of his body. The destruction that this gorilla could have created would have been actually "horrific" and if that gorilla was "throwing the child around" with intent to harm, make no mistake about it, the child would be incredibly dead. Super duper dead is what they call it in medical school, I believe?
Did you watch the video?
Sorry, but let's go ahead and put some culpability with the parents. If you are suggesting you should watch your kids less, especially when you aren't in your element, then good luck with that?
The zoo needs to rethink access from kids and dopey adults to all their animals. From a danger to humans-standpoint, from a legal standpoint and from an animal welfare standpoint.
And yeah, I think it is fine for some/many people to feel bad for the animal. And a nice piping hot cup of go fuck yourself to those that can't see it, or choose not to in an attempt to be obtuse or a contrarian fuckhead.
The child's mother, who works at a child care center for toddlers and preschoolers in Cincinnati...
The child's mother, who works at a child care center for toddlers and preschoolers in Cincinnati...
Do they do field trips?
For $50, she'll teach him how to juggle chainsaws.
For a hundy, she will take your kid to Mid-Ohio Speedway and let him stand in pit row.
That sounds hazardous. Kid might wander into one of those thumbs threads and see some bouncing boobs. Can't have that.
So will a lot of species on this planet with that attitude.
Zoos play a big part of extending the life of species that otherwise would become extinct. Not all by the terrible human race.
The gorilla was born and raised in captivity. It was a gorilla. Case closed.
A human child vs an animal and there is a discussion?
I'm sure you would have waited for you child's arms to start getting ripped off before you let action against an animal be taken.
This lady, at that particular moment, was being a shitty parent. I am not a parent, but I've no issue saying it. Go to any public place on any given day - a restaurant, a supermarket, etc - and you'll see young kids running amock while their parents go about their their business oblivious to that fact that little Johnny just wrecked half of aisle one.
I work in such a place and see terrible parents daily, who just don't give a fuck.
I just don't like the fact that everyone is judge and jury in an event that just as easily can happen to them god forbid.
Just maybe everyone needs to knock on a door and have it open with a young couple with a dead baby in their arms fully extended expecting you to perform a miracle. I can tell you 100's of stories where shit happens.
You want to be called the asshole on national media when it happens to you?
Would it have made it more palatable to you if it was a pitbull who "endangered" a child and was shot to death?
Or was that the parents fault because they didn't watch their child every second?
Did you ever see the Twilight Zone episode of humans living in zoos? How would you like to live in a cage and have people staring at you all day?
Would it have made it more palatable to you if it was a pitbull who "endangered" a child and was shot to death?
Or was that the parents fault because they didn't watch their child every second?
It makes no difference what type of animal. I wouldn't even characterize myself as an animal nut. Point is, she took four kids to the zoo and her inattentiveness nearly cost one of them their life.
Does it make her an asshole? Maybe. Maybe not. Does stopping to take a picture around a gorilla pit make her a bad parent? Maybe. At that moment, for sure. One bad parent amongst millions.
Why, then, was this mother supposed to assume that if her three-year-old slipped out of her grasp, as he did, the next stop was going to be with the kid down in the pool with a teenage gorilla?
Some of you have some strange views as to how parents should perceive risks.
You don't have a clue is all I have to say.
When is the last time you took young kids anywhere?
You have an awfully simplistic view of this. One that I guarantee will change when you have kids. But enjoy it while it lasts.
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Why? Because I choose not to have four kids that I can't watch every moment?
You have an awfully simplistic view of this. One that I guarantee will change when you have kids. But enjoy it while it lasts.
With due respect, I'm 36 and not having kids is not for a lack of opportunity.
With that said, I think most people vastly overate their ability to be good parents.
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In comment 12978001 Modus Operandi said:
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Why? Because I choose not to have four kids that I can't watch every moment?
You have an awfully simplistic view of this. One that I guarantee will change when you have kids. But enjoy it while it lasts.
With due respect, I'm 36 and not having kids is not for a lack of opportunity.
With that said, I think most people vastly overate their ability to be good parents.
Just as many underestimate the complications of doing it.
But you will judge others?
My respect for you went down a bunch of notches.
Really? You live the perfect life?
God bless you.
Every parent who ever lost sight of their kid is a bad parent. Every parent who ever had a kid that was hit by a car or swallowed something they shouldn't or choked on a grape or abducted. All bad parents. Because the hypothetical perfect parents would never allow their hypothetical children to be in any kind of danger anywhere.
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Accidents happen even to the best of parents. But hey, you think you can be a better parent, who never makes a mistake, even so much as being distracted for a few seconds. More power to you. I know I've made my share of mistakes.
Every parent who ever lost sight of their kid is a bad parent. Every parent who ever had a kid that was hit by a car or swallowed something they shouldn't or choked on a grape or abducted. All bad parents. Because the hypothetical perfect parents would never allow their hypothetical children to be in any kind of danger anywhere.
This. Nicely stated.
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Accidents happen even to the best of parents. But hey, you think you can be a better parent, who never makes a mistake, even so much as being distracted for a few seconds. More power to you. I know I've made my share of mistakes.
Every parent who ever lost sight of their kid is a bad parent. Every parent who ever had a kid that was hit by a car or swallowed something they shouldn't or choked on a grape or abducted. All bad parents. Because the hypothetical perfect parents would never allow their hypothetical children to be in any kind of danger anywhere.
Not MO.
Even when he was 23 he stated I have no brain or ideas of my own and if mommy or daddy told me that is what I do, I do it even to this day.
It's something else entirely to let your kid climb down into a gorilla pit. I Don't begrudge anyone having children. Maybe anecdotal, but in my experiences, some of the worst parents I know didn't stop at one. They just compound their mistakes.
Ctc: No reason for the passive-aggressiveness. If you're going to take it this personal, maybe take a break from the conversation?
No reason to let that get in the way of good old witch hunt! Burn her!
No point in arguing about the parent, we don't have enough info and even if we did parenting isn't about just staring at your kid waiting to keep them from fucking up.
Look in the mirror son.
It's not me who needs to take a break.
Yeah, people don't take offence when those without any experience tell them they know better then them.
Not sure how much you've dealt with determined 2-5 year olds on a daily basis, but they are resourceful as fuck. A child can climb over shit better than you ever thought they could and pretty damn fast. And they quick as all hell.
It's not about giving this mother sympathy as much as not going pitchfork crazy calling for her to lose custody of her kid or calling for her to be charged. There is a huge gulf between the two extremes. And for someone with limited experiences with kids to lecture others on how losing sight of their kids momentarily makes them criminally negligent is what is inviting these responses.
After 38 years without a problem, how can you blame the zoo?
Come on, man. You've been on your high horse throwing judgements at parents, who lose sight of their kids through this thread. As ctc stated, it's a bit annoying being lectured by someone with limited experience on a subject when most of us with kids have been trying to tell you from experience that raising kids and keeping eyes on them is difficult. Yet you keep telling us that it isn't so.
Really? But if a group of former presidents sat down with you and explained to you how difficult their day to day job is, wouldn't you listen to their experience? Or are you so arrogant in your own limited experience that you would still tell them that they're wrong?
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I've never told you what you should do, nor have I evaluated your parenting skills. We were discussing a news event until you went off the rails and started whining. You chose to take it personally.
Come on, man. You've been on your high horse throwing judgements at parents, who lose sight of their kids through this thread. As ctc stated, it's a bit annoying being lectured by someone with limited experience on a subject when most of us with kids have been trying to tell you from experience that raising kids and keeping eyes on them is difficult. Yet you keep telling us that it isn't so.
Please tell me where I said parenting was easy? Or where I said all parents and kids suck. Or any comment where I told anyone on this thread how they should raise their kids.
Thanks in advance.
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would the chaperone/teacher get this much sympathy? I know kids can be a bitch to handle, but IMO it takes a unique type of kid to end up in a pit.
Not sure how much you've dealt with determined 2-5 year olds on a daily basis, but they are resourceful as fuck. A child can climb over shit better than you ever thought they could and pretty damn fast. And they quick as all hell.
It's not about giving this mother sympathy as much as not going pitchfork crazy calling for her to lose custody of her kid or calling for her to be charged. There is a huge gulf between the two extremes. And for someone with limited experiences with kids to lecture others on how losing sight of their kids momentarily makes them criminally negligent is what is inviting these responses.
You're right, I'm underestimating how much kids can be little hellraisers if they're determined. I flew off the cuff when this story first broke, and admit to calling for her to lose the child, but understand that the right decision was made in the end.
Experience is experience and not having them make your perspective a bit skewed compared to those who have them. That's what CiP, ctc, and I are trying to tell you.
Experience is experience and not having them make your perspective a bit skewed compared to those who have them. That's what CiP, ctc, and I are trying to tell you.
Course I would. Would you refuse orders from a Commander in Chief who never served?
All I've said here is that it appears to me the woman was negligent. I never commented on yours or CiP's parenting. I merely disagreed with your take on this story.
I mentioned I chose not to have kids of my own. I didn't say I didn't have experience raising them.
I'm sure you're all great parents. But many, many, many arent.
You evaluated a person's skills you do not know, not mine. I do not take it personally.
As a matter of fact, my wife and I weren't blessed with children. Your assumptions are way far off.
In my career I have seen many tragedies with young children that happened in a blink of an eye.
If you were a parent, it could happen to you. You're not perfect no matter how much you think you are.
Maybe I take it personal because I have had to tell too many parents who thought it would never happen to their kid because they are so vigilant that they are dead.
It's that simple.
That you think you would be different?
Only by the grace of god or whatever karma you believe in or not.
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In comment 12978117 Modus Operandi said:
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I've never told you what you should do, nor have I evaluated your parenting skills. We were discussing a news event until you went off the rails and started whining. You chose to take it personally.
Come on, man. You've been on your high horse throwing judgements at parents, who lose sight of their kids through this thread. As ctc stated, it's a bit annoying being lectured by someone with limited experience on a subject when most of us with kids have been trying to tell you from experience that raising kids and keeping eyes on them is difficult. Yet you keep telling us that it isn't so.
Please tell me where I said parenting was easy? Or where I said all parents and kids suck. Or any comment where I told anyone on this thread how they should raise their kids.
Thanks in advance.
I don't know...maybe I took this wrong, but this specific line sounds like criticism of most parents and their parenting skills. Maybe it's just me...but I don't know.
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Please tell me this a parody post.
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Like to go to war, and I told you that you we're wrong, would you listen to my experience?
Experience is experience and not having them make your perspective a bit skewed compared to those who have them. That's what CiP, ctc, and I are trying to tell you.
Course I would. Would you refuse orders from a Commander in Chief who never served?
All I've said here is that it appears to me the woman was negligent. I never commented on yours or CiP's parenting. I merely disagreed with your take on this story.
I mentioned I chose not to have kids of my own. I didn't say I didn't have experience raising them.
I'm sure you're all great parents. But many, many, many arent.
Definitely not trying to start an argument, man...so if I sound like I'm coming off combative, I apologize.
And you are right, we don't have to agree. I think for the most part, many of us can empathize with this mother in losing sight of her kid for a brief moment. No one would have ever known this mother and her child if it wasn't a perfectly terrible combination of momentary distraction, a kids actual (and not stupid shit kids say) desire to go meet the gorilla, and the less than secure enclosure that a four year old could circumvent that allowed these events to unfold. It's tragic and a waste of beautiful animal's life. But accidents do happen even when negligence isn't an issue. It just happens.
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In comment 12978140 RC02XX said:
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Like to go to war, and I told you that you we're wrong, would you listen to my experience?
Experience is experience and not having them make your perspective a bit skewed compared to those who have them. That's what CiP, ctc, and I are trying to tell you.
Course I would. Would you refuse orders from a Commander in Chief who never served?
All I've said here is that it appears to me the woman was negligent. I never commented on yours or CiP's parenting. I merely disagreed with your take on this story.
I mentioned I chose not to have kids of my own. I didn't say I didn't have experience raising them.
I'm sure you're all great parents. But many, many, many arent.
Definitely not trying to start an argument, man...so if I sound like I'm coming off combative, I apologize.
And you are right, we don't have to agree. I think for the most part, many of us can empathize with this mother in losing sight of her kid for a brief moment. No one would have ever known this mother and her child if it wasn't a perfectly terrible combination of momentary distraction, a kids actual (and not stupid shit kids say) desire to go meet the gorilla, and the less than secure enclosure that a four year old could circumvent that allowed these events to unfold. It's tragic and a waste of beautiful animal's life. But accidents do happen even when negligence isn't an issue. It just happens.
This.
People can't accept that simple answer.
Certainly this is not criminal or gross negligence but I do think a higher level of attentiveness is warranted in certain situations. This may have been one such situation. But that's it; no need for special punishment or public scorn of her. I think this may be a lesson for her.
No, it is a lesson for everyone.
There for karma go you.
What is that gorilla was never born in captivity to reproduce a dying species would this have happened?
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In comment 12978140 RC02XX said:
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Like to go to war, and I told you that you we're wrong, would you listen to my experience?
Experience is experience and not having them make your perspective a bit skewed compared to those who have them. That's what CiP, ctc, and I are trying to tell you.
Course I would. Would you refuse orders from a Commander in Chief who never served?
All I've said here is that it appears to me the woman was negligent. I never commented on yours or CiP's parenting. I merely disagreed with your take on this story.
I mentioned I chose not to have kids of my own. I didn't say I didn't have experience raising them.
I'm sure you're all great parents. But many, many, many arent.
Definitely not trying to start an argument, man...so if I sound like I'm coming off combative, I apologize.
And you are right, we don't have to agree. I think for the most part, many of us can empathize with this mother in losing sight of her kid for a brief moment. No one would have ever known this mother and her child if it wasn't a perfectly terrible combination of momentary distraction, a kids actual (and not stupid shit kids say) desire to go meet the gorilla, and the less than secure enclosure that a four year old could circumvent that allowed these events to unfold. It's tragic and a waste of beautiful animal's life. But accidents do happen even when negligence isn't an issue. It just happens.
No worries, brother. Have known you since the Midn_ and youre one if my faves here. Me too. Didn't mean to come off above it all.
I agree in general. With some fan too.
This isn't a mother who left the kid alone in the house, or left a loaded weapon within the kid's reach,didnt use a car seat, or whatever. She focused on something else for probably less than a minute. Virtually all parents do that every now and then, and 99.999999% of the time nothing happens.
But some people need someone on whom to focus their outrageous outrage, or else they just don't feel right.
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In comment 12978140 RC02XX said:
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Like to go to war, and I told you that you we're wrong, would you listen to my experience?
Experience is experience and not having them make your perspective a bit skewed compared to those who have them. That's what CiP, ctc, and I are trying to tell you.
Course I would. Would you refuse orders from a Commander in Chief who never served?
All I've said here is that it appears to me the woman was negligent. I never commented on yours or CiP's parenting. I merely disagreed with your take on this story.
I mentioned I chose not to have kids of my own. I didn't say I didn't have experience raising them.
I'm sure you're all great parents. But many, many, many arent.
Definitely not trying to start an argument, man...so if I sound like I'm coming off combative, I apologize.
And you are right, we don't have to agree. I think for the most part, many of us can empathize with this mother in losing sight of her kid for a brief moment. No one would have ever known this mother and her child if it wasn't a perfectly terrible combination of momentary distraction, a kids actual (and not stupid shit kids say) desire to go meet the gorilla, and the less than secure enclosure that a four year old could circumvent that allowed these events to unfold. It's tragic and a waste of beautiful animal's life. But accidents do happen even when negligence isn't an issue. It just happens.
Not only did this BBI War/rap battle/dispute/whatever end in a group hug, but there is something everyone can learn from this incident and apply it to other threads on similiar newsworthy topics.
No, it is a lesson for everyone.
There for karma go you.
What is that gorilla was never born in captivity to reproduce a dying species would this have happened?
Agree with llesson for all who may otherwise be negligent.
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Accidents happen even to the best of parents. But hey, you think you can be a better parent, who never makes a mistake, even so much as being distracted for a few seconds. More power to you. I know I've made my share of mistakes.
Every parent who ever lost sight of their kid is a bad parent. Every parent who ever had a kid that was hit by a car or swallowed something they shouldn't or choked on a grape or abducted. All bad parents. Because the hypothetical perfect parents would never allow their hypothetical children to be in any kind of danger anywhere.
That is as draconian a statement as saying no parent is ever negligent. It is bullshit.
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In comment 12978039 RC02XX said:
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Accidents happen even to the best of parents. But hey, you think you can be a better parent, who never makes a mistake, even so much as being distracted for a few seconds. More power to you. I know I've made my share of mistakes.
Every parent who ever lost sight of their kid is a bad parent. Every parent who ever had a kid that was hit by a car or swallowed something they shouldn't or choked on a grape or abducted. All bad parents. Because the hypothetical perfect parents would never allow their hypothetical children to be in any kind of danger anywhere.
That is as draconian a statement as saying no parent is ever negligent. It is bullshit.
Obviously you missed the intention of that statement as response to some of the posts in this thread.
It's been kinda easy to raise a kid that doesn't run away and/or do dumb shit.
It's been kinda easy to raise a kid that doesn't run away and/or do dumb shit.
It would have been my fault because I was an asshole kid who wanted to get into trouble and the zoo's fault who didn't properly secure their exhibits to the fullest extent possible.
If you can show me a video of this woman watching her kid in the act and not trying to stop him, then you'd all have a point. Until then, its a witch hunt with zero information.
AP in Halfmoon : 9:59 am : link : reply
that's easy with one child. Try taking 4 very active kids anywhere and see if that holds true
I wouldn't have 4 kids. Seems like a lot of parents that did wish they didn't because they constantly let you know that they can't handle it.
If you can show me a video of this woman watching her kid in the act and not trying to stop him, then you'd all have a point. Until then, its a witch hunt with zero information.
The information we have to go on is what we as parents would have done in this same situation, which probably would have involved our kid not being face to face with a gorilla.
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Of course
AP in Halfmoon : 9:59 am : link : reply
that's easy with one child. Try taking 4 very active kids anywhere and see if that holds true
I wouldn't have 4 kids. Seems like a lot of parents that did wish they didn't because they constantly let you know that they can't handle it.
It doesn't have to be 4. Try it with 2.
It doesn't have to be 4. Try it with 2.
Let me borrow one real quick.
leatherneck570 : 10:33 am : link : reply
deal?
Meet me at the zoo.
What did you have for breakfast? I had creampie.
What did you have for breakfast? I had creampie.
If I were in your shoes, I would have made the exact same decision.
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It's something else entirely to let your kid climb down into a gorilla pit"
so what you're saying is that your mother let you get hit by a car? Damn, that's a harsh way to teach you not to play in the road.
as you said, accidents happen. the difference is that a parent should have a reasonable expectation that a four year old cannot, by himself, get into a gorilla cage.
But isn't that why we have more than one kid? So that you have a spare kid as a replacement?
"the difference is that a parent should have a reasonable expectation that a four year old cannot, by himself, get into a gorilla cage"
Just watch your kids, homie.
Just watch your kids, homie.
I agree that parents should definitely be attentive to their kids, both safety and needs. However, for a parent to be 100% attentive at all time is unrealistic. As stated above by a few posters, this would never have been a story about a mother being negligent as many are saying if it happened anywhere else. But by some shitty coincidence of shitty events (mother being distracted momentarily, kid wanting to go meet the gorilla (and meaning it), and the enclosure being less than effective), this became a tragic story. So tell me, if this mother became distracted near a penguin exhibit (that was effective in keeping people out) and the kid happened to walk away from the mother and start yelling at the penguins, would she still be considered criminally negligent? I mean, she lost sight of her child momentarily and all when she should have been watching him, right? Or is the condition for being negligent all based on the outcome of an event? And not the actual act of losing sight of her child? What is it?
I don't know what I would do if one of my kids fell into her pen.
The parents can see what the enclosure is like and I'm sorry if some here are different, but when my kids are/were young and we are in a scenario like that, I'm not taking my eyes off them.
To the zoo: Seriously? Anybody can throw someone over and in? An unknowing kid can sneak in that easily and put himself in danger, making you liable? Fix this?
That said, I don't think she is a horrible parent based solely on this incident.
The same parenting skills were on display whether the kid gets mauled or not.
That said, I don't think she is a horrible parent based solely on this incident.
But then this falls into what mahn george was stating regarding a zoo with 38 years of no serious incident being relatively safe place for a mother to expect her child to be safe as she took a picture for a few seconds. It unfortunate that all of the factors combined to turn this situation into a tragic one. But the outrage displayed in this thread seems a bit too much, in my opinion.
The same parenting skills were on display whether the kid gets mauled or not.
So was she negligent in your opinion? If so, criminally?
I think that based on the story, she wasn't negligent and definitely not criminally negligent. It's a terrible situation that came to a head when all the factors collided to create something dangerous and tragic.
But we can disagree and move on on this one.
"If we were the original apes, then how come Harambe is still an ape, and how come he didn’t become one of us?” Limbaugh asked on Tuesday's show.
/s
I will say that any human being that watches that behind a camera without getting in there will never get on my island.
"If we were the original apes, then how come Harambe is still an ape, and how come he didn’t become one of us?” Limbaugh asked on Tuesday's show.
/s
Are you implying its all an act?
I don't know what I would do if one of my kids fell into her pen.
That's fucked up. She's up to 650 now.
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To hear his comments when the mic was off.
Are you implying its all an act?
No, he probably said much worse
The parents can see what the enclosure is like and I'm sorry if some here are different, but when my kids are/were young and we are in a scenario like that, I'm not taking my eyes off them.
To the zoo: Seriously? Anybody can throw someone over and in? An unknowing kid can sneak in that easily and put himself in danger, making you liable? Fix this?
Especially in a public place full of strangers and dangerous animals behind cages. There is an implied level of higher scrutiny regarding their kids any parent would place themselves under in a situation like that.
Catch you later, dude.
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The parents and the zoo should both be accountable.
The parents can see what the enclosure is like and I'm sorry if some here are different, but when my kids are/were young and we are in a scenario like that, I'm not taking my eyes off them.
To the zoo: Seriously? Anybody can throw someone over and in? An unknowing kid can sneak in that easily and put himself in danger, making you liable? Fix this?
Especially in a public place full of strangers and dangerous animals behind cages. There is an implied level of higher scrutiny regarding their kids any parent would place themselves under in a situation like that.
I kind of touched on this earlier. What if this happened under the watch of a school chaperone during a field trip? I have a feeling some of the posters (not all) that are more forgiving of the mother would be outraged at the chaperone for having a momentary lapse.
Again, I went to the Bronx Zoo many times as a child as well as a couple local ones in CT. We ran off all the time, its simply impossible for a chaperone to account for every child at every single second.
Within the first hour of the expo in Ningbo, a young boy pushed over a human-sized sculpture and sent its pieces toppling to the ground, according to state-run CCTV.
The artwork, an intricate statue of a fox named Nick from the animated Disney film "Zootopia," took three days to create and cost more than $15,000, CCTV said on its Facebook page.
The artist, who CCTV identifies as "Mr. Zhao," chronicled the experience on social media, posting pictures that showed him building the Lego sculpture brick by brick. The last image shows the sculpture in pieces.
Zhao accepted the parents' apology for the actions of their son -- thought to be 4 or 5 years old -- and did not request compensation, according to CCTV.
"The child did not intend to break it," Zhao said, as quoted by CCTV.
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In comment 12979102 Randy in CT said:
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The parents and the zoo should both be accountable.
The parents can see what the enclosure is like and I'm sorry if some here are different, but when my kids are/were young and we are in a scenario like that, I'm not taking my eyes off them.
To the zoo: Seriously? Anybody can throw someone over and in? An unknowing kid can sneak in that easily and put himself in danger, making you liable? Fix this?
Especially in a public place full of strangers and dangerous animals behind cages. There is an implied level of higher scrutiny regarding their kids any parent would place themselves under in a situation like that.
I kind of touched on this earlier. What if this happened under the watch of a school chaperone during a field trip? I have a feeling some of the posters (not all) that are more forgiving of the mother would be outraged at the chaperone for having a momentary lapse.
I doubt that. Most people who are more forgiving of the mother understand how hard it can be...
Just watch your kids, homie.
Do it with more than one and then judge.
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In comment 12979314 montanagiant said:
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In comment 12979102 Randy in CT said:
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The parents and the zoo should both be accountable.
The parents can see what the enclosure is like and I'm sorry if some here are different, but when my kids are/were young and we are in a scenario like that, I'm not taking my eyes off them.
To the zoo: Seriously? Anybody can throw someone over and in? An unknowing kid can sneak in that easily and put himself in danger, making you liable? Fix this?
Especially in a public place full of strangers and dangerous animals behind cages. There is an implied level of higher scrutiny regarding their kids any parent would place themselves under in a situation like that.
I kind of touched on this earlier. What if this happened under the watch of a school chaperone during a field trip? I have a feeling some of the posters (not all) that are more forgiving of the mother would be outraged at the chaperone for having a momentary lapse.
I doubt that. Most people who are more forgiving of the mother understand how hard it can be...
Do it with more than one and then judge.
I mean it's not like KidFilthy doesn't have friends (more than I do) and we haven't had to be out in public many times watching her and others. I guess I just don't find it difficult to not let other things distract me.
I just can't imagine that 1) wanting to wander off and explore out of mom's view is anything new for this kid. And 2) after seeing the wimpy barrier set up to protect anyone from falling in a gorilla pit, this mom didn't think to have her eye on her little shit even more than usual.
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Chris in Philly : 11:11 am : link : reply
Do it with more than one and then judge.
I mean it's not like KidFilthy doesn't have friends (more than I do) and we haven't had to be out in public many times watching her and others. I guess I just don't find it difficult to not let other things distract me.
I just can't imagine that 1) wanting to wander off and explore out of mom's view is anything new for this kid. And 2) after seeing the wimpy barrier set up to protect anyone from falling in a gorilla pit, this mom didn't think to have her eye on her little shit even more than usual.
Girls don't count
Managing a 4 year old girl in public is a cake walk compared to the hanibal lechter transfer that is taking a 4 year old boy out in a place like a zoo
Girls don't count
Managing a 4 year old girl in public is a cake walk compared to the hanibal lechter transfer that is taking a 4 year old boy out in a place like a zoo
FOR THE RECORD!!!! KidFilthy is a girl going on 7 but her friends are boys because she knows girls are fucking idiots and gross.
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Chris in Philly : 11:11 am : link : reply
Do it with more than one and then judge.
I mean it's not like KidFilthy doesn't have friends (more than I do) and we haven't had to be out in public many times watching her and others. I guess I just don't find it difficult to not let other things distract me.
I just can't imagine that 1) wanting to wander off and explore out of mom's view is anything new for this kid. And 2) after seeing the wimpy barrier set up to protect anyone from falling in a gorilla pit, this mom didn't think to have her eye on her little shit even more than usual.
Girls don't count
Managing a 4 year old girl in public is a cake walk compared to the hanibal lechter transfer that is taking a 4 year old boy out in a place like a zoo
Bahahaha. So true...
What, exactly was the scenario to which you refer? The exhibit had not had an incident in 38 years. What exactly was there that the parent were supposed to have seen? That there was a crevice, hidden by bushes, that was just big enough for a 3-year old to wriggle through?
Clearly, some people here are pissed off enough to envision scenarios they haven't actually witnessed, in order to find someone to blame. And they do so with such remarkable confidence.
What exactly was there that the parent were supposed to have seen?
Their kid.
If you look at the picture of the barrier, yeah, it looks kinda low on top, but for the kid to having gotten into the exhibit, he had to wriggle UNDER it, and THEN over it. Were there signs that the bushy primary fence had gaps underneath? That there was a way to wriggle through those gaps and then over the wall behinds them? Show me.
Since there hadn't been an incident in 38 years, perhaps the zoo got a little complacent about keeping the underbrush of the bushes in good shape?
I took my son to the 2 NY zoos all of the time, alone or with his friends. While I kept an eye on him/them, he/they often got excited by the animals, and often tried to run off on his own to see something up close. He tried all of the time to put his fingers through a wire fence, and I had to scold him about that. I never had any sense that there was danger that he would get through barriers into an exhibit, though.
Did that make me a bad parent? Dollars to donuts, tens of thousands of parents have had exactly that happen in zoos generally and around the very exhibit in question, over a 38 year period. Does that make THEM bad parents, or are the only bad parents the ones who had this unfortunate incident? Should a parent assume that a three-year-old boy has the physical skills to accomplish what this kid did--wriggle under the brush barrier and then over the wall behind it?
This really is nonsense.
If you look at the picture of the barrier, yeah, it looks kinda low on top, but for the kid to having gotten into the exhibit, he had to wriggle UNDER it, and THEN over it.
So what you are saying is that the parent must have REALLY not been paying attention since it would have take some time and effort for the kid to get in.
As for parenting, I said it before, I'll say it again. If you think you've never lost sight of your 4 year old in a crowd long enough for this to have happened, you're 'delusional' (aka full of shit). We simply don't know if the lost sight in this incidence was long enough to cast aspersions.
Ronnie had it right:
Again, I went to the Bronx Zoo many times as a child as well as a couple local ones in CT. We ran off all the time, its simply impossible for a chaperone to account for every child at every single second.
Running off is one thing, but did you (or anyone you know) try to crawl into an exhibit where a live animal was?
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would definitely catch a lot of flack but say they are watching 10 kids, isn't it the Zoo's job to make it safe for schools and large groups of children to come to see their exhibits?
Again, I went to the Bronx Zoo many times as a child as well as a couple local ones in CT. We ran off all the time, its simply impossible for a chaperone to account for every child at every single second.
Running off is one thing, but did you (or anyone you know) try to crawl into an exhibit where a live animal was?
No, but how long did it take the kid, 5 maybe 10 seconds? As a parent going into a place that's designed specifically for families, you go into it thinking that they won't be put in danger and that losing site of said kid for well under 30 seconds wouldn't result in tragedy.
That picture of the exhibit is frightening from the standpoint that I can basically swing my leg over as an adult and jump in if I wanted to. Going incident free for that long is sheer luck, IMO, and had nothing to do with every other park attendee being great parents.
This was a freak accident that can happen to anyone, regardless of parenting skills.
Going incident free for that long is sheer luck, IMO, and had nothing to do with every other park attendee being great parents.
You don't even need to be a "great" parent to think about having your 4 year old by your side with a fence like that, in my opinion.
RC02XX : 1:36 pm : link : reply
this reminds me of our previous discussions regarding children accidentally being left in cars resulting in tragedies. One doesn't have to be a negligent parent to make life altering tragic mistakes.
Maybe not negligent up to that point, but you do have to be a colossal moron and have some fucked up priorities as usually it's "work stress" and "in a rush" or some bullshit excuse that is given.
Just my opinion though. Before any of you reply I do realize I'm not allowed to judge until I myself have had a child I wanted to kill in a hot car.
manh george : 1:18 pm : link : reply
IF there was a hole under the brush, he could have wriggled through it in 5 seconds. I have no idea. Neither do you.
That would just be adding details to the story that up to this point don't exist though.
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While a bit more in the extreme case...
RC02XX : 1:36 pm : link : reply
this reminds me of our previous discussions regarding children accidentally being left in cars resulting in tragedies. One doesn't have to be a negligent parent to make life altering tragic mistakes.
Maybe not negligent up to that point, but you do have to be a colossal moron and have some fucked up priorities as usually it's "work stress" and "in a rush" or some bullshit excuse that is given.
Just my opinion though. Before any of you reply I do realize I'm not allowed to judge until I myself have had a child I wanted to kill in a hot car.
Don't be flippant, man. We've been more than respectful of our disagreements. I was merely stating something that I remembered.
And I was being serious about this being another contentious topic that every parent with small children need to constantly be vigilant about. I didn't expect a shit sarcastic comment in return. But no biggie. I'm sorry that you almost had to go through this tragedy with someone you know.
This absolving of the parents is sure interesting.
manh george : 1:58 pm : link : reply
And yet you are willing to assume an awful lot that you simply don't know. Why are your assumptions more valid? Because they play better into your anger?
This whole thread has been about a parent not looking, which I guess you can say is my assumption and it would be the natural one to have. But you are changing the terrain. There is a little difference at least.
And I'm not angry at this person letting their kid almost get ripped apart. I get mad at anyone for having kids.
The thread was regarding the father in Georgia (I think), who intentionally left his son to die in the car because he wanted to start a new life.
And with there being almost 40 incidents a year in which children actually die in hot cars (who knows how many other incidents in which parents were able to remember in time to get back to the car and thus aren't counted), it isn't something that's so out of the realm of possibility that good parents can't make such tragic mistakes.
And of course none of us ever think we can make the same mistake, but tragic accidents do happen to good people. Whether you agree that some of these are accidents or just parents being negligent and shitty doesn't matter at this point. It happens.
This absolving of the parents is sure interesting.
We dont need to guess. A witness said the boy was through in a flash. Too fast for her to grab him.
This absolving of the parents is sure interesting.
People aren't absolving anyone. People are empathizing and saying there just isn't enough information to make such black and white call like some have done here. There is a huge gulf between absolving and witch-hunting.
How do you "accidentally" leave a kid in a car? When I was young (probably 8+), I was left in the car with the windows open if my parents needed to run a quick errand (bank, grab some bread, etc). But this was never by "accident" as they were intentionally leaving me.
Or did potentially hundreds or thousands of prior instances of kids getting away from their parents briefly simply not result in the kid crawling under the bushes and into the moat?
And Filthy, as far as the amount of time involved, there was this comment from an eyewitness:
Despite this, you seem to know for a fact that the kid was off by himself for some extended period of time. Based upon what?
None of us actually thought he’d go over the nearly 15 foot drop, but he was crawling so fast through the bushes before myself or husband could grab him, he went over!
Despite this, you seem to know for a fact that the kid was off by himself for some extended period of time. Based upon what?
"Crawling so fast" AFTER the kid had already climbed through that fence I'm guessing? Yeah, no chance KidFilthy even gets past that barrier, nor would she try. Sorry, I just have more confidence in myself here.
It's like you don't even know him.
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manh george : 2:14 pm : link : reply
None of us actually thought he’d go over the nearly 15 foot drop, but he was crawling so fast through the bushes before myself or husband could grab him, he went over!
Despite this, you seem to know for a fact that the kid was off by himself for some extended period of time. Based upon what?
"Crawling so fast" AFTER the kid had already climbed through that fence I'm guessing? Yeah, no chance KidFilthy even gets past that barrier, nor would she try. Sorry, I just have more confidence in myself here.
You should start exercising your kid, she sounds slow.
Whats her 3 cone time?
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I didn't expect a shit sarcastic comment in return.
It's like you don't even know him.
I like to think that Filthy is far above your level of discourse, you fat fucking dwarf.
Whats her 3 cone time?
She's a girl...does it matter?...;)
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I didn't expect a shit sarcastic comment in return.
It's like you don't even know him.
I like to think that Filthy is far above your level of discourse, you fat fucking dwarf.
How dare you.
How dare you.
Truth hurts, you short rotundo.
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I didn't expect a shit sarcastic comment in return.
It's like you don't even know him.
I like to think that Filthy is far above your level of discourse, you fat fucking dwarf.
Leave Danny DeVito alone!
It's great seeing you here, you godless heathen!
Or did potentially hundreds or thousands of prior instances of kids getting away from their parents briefly simply not result in the kid crawling under the bushes and into the moat?
And Filthy, as far as the amount of time involved, there was this comment from an eyewitness:
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None of us actually thought he’d go over the nearly 15 foot drop, but he was crawling so fast through the bushes before myself or husband could grab him, he went over!
Despite this, you seem to know for a fact that the kid was off by himself for some extended period of time. Based upon what?
I'd say that given the number of people with kids who have visited the zoo for almost 40 years (and I'd imagine a whole bunch of them had to be fucking stupid and being led by stupid parents), when you get one that makes its way through and into the exhibit, which has never happened before, either the kid is the next Houdini, or it isn't a stretch of the imagination to suggest that the kid wasn't being supervised too extensively. I mean, are you serious? This was an anomalous occurrence overall, so are YOU suggesting that the zoo did something wrong THIS time with this child? Because however they might update their enclosure to make it even safer, before this accident, it hadn't happened before.
There are no bushes AFTER the drop, so there goes that theory.
Facts are funny things, dontchathink?
Again, we just all parent differently I guess. The minute that I or WifeFilthy have had our eye off of my kid in public, especially one with heavy traffic like a zoo, hasn't happened yet.
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"Her attention was drawn away for seconds, maybe a minute..."
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"...lost track of her child for perhaps a minute or so..."
Again, we just all parent differently I guess. The minute that I or WifeFilthy have had our eye off of my kid in public, especially one with heavy traffic like a zoo, hasn't happened yet.
Try having two then.
Only those with 3 or more trophies bundles of joy are permitted to weigh in.
I think other posters have said she was a bad parent...I don't believe you said it. Just just told us on numerous occasions that you were a better parent than most of us...;)
But the mom did make it clear to the kid that he will not do any of that. In the end, this kid is just a little asshole...:)
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Well, all kids are assholes to a point. So when they say stupid shit, you often tell them "no" and move on without giving it a second thought. This one just happened to be a bit more of an asshole than others.
"No you aren't"
"Yes, I am."
"No, you aren't."
And then he did.
Warning: video is extremely graphic. The kid's bloody guts are exposed as he is ripped apart and killed by tigers.
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But seriously that looks like normal people dropping that in there, not zoo trainers. Fuckin China
I am curious about one thing. I believe if my son fell in the pit I would have gone in after him. Perhaps attempting to distract the gorilla. I'm not suggesting it would be the wise course of action but I believe that's what I would have done.
I'm curious who else thought about that and would jump in?
Even beyond that I think I would have a very hard time watching any child in that situation and not be tempted to go in after him. It's a little kid with his entire life ahead of him.