NFT: Cincinnati Zoo Kills Gorilla to Protect Child

In comment 12979260 ron mexico said:

Quote:

In comment 12979257 AP in Halfmoon said: Quote: To hear his comments when the mic was off. Are you implying its all an act?

No, he probably said much worse

In comment 12979102 Randy in CT said:

Quote:

The parents and the zoo should both be accountable. The parents can see what the enclosure is like and I'm sorry if some here are different, but when my kids are/were young and we are in a scenario like that, I'm not taking my eyes off them. To the zoo: Seriously? Anybody can throw someone over and in? An unknowing kid can sneak in that easily and put himself in danger, making you liable? Fix this?

Especially in a public place full of strangers and dangerous animals behind cages. There is an implied level of higher scrutiny regarding their kids any parent would place themselves under in a situation like that.

I know for a fact that you're an awesome dad, so please don't take what I've been saying to mean anything negative about you.

Catch you later, dude.

In comment 12979314 montanagiant said:

Quote:

In comment 12979102 Randy in CT said: Quote: The parents and the zoo should both be accountable. The parents can see what the enclosure is like and I'm sorry if some here are different, but when my kids are/were young and we are in a scenario like that, I'm not taking my eyes off them. To the zoo: Seriously? Anybody can throw someone over and in? An unknowing kid can sneak in that easily and put himself in danger, making you liable? Fix this? Especially in a public place full of strangers and dangerous animals behind cages. There is an implied level of higher scrutiny regarding their kids any parent would place themselves under in a situation like that.

I kind of touched on this earlier. What if this happened under the watch of a school chaperone during a field trip? I have a feeling some of the posters (not all) that are more forgiving of the mother would be outraged at the chaperone for having a momentary lapse.

would definitely catch a lot of flack but say they are watching 10 kids, isn't it the Zoo's job to make it safe for schools and large groups of children to come to see their exhibits?

Again, I went to the Bronx Zoo many times as a child as well as a couple local ones in CT. We ran off all the time, its simply impossible for a chaperone to account for every child at every single second.

Kids are the worst...

Quote:

(CNN)To look but not touch proved to be too much for one young boy at a Lego show in southern China. Within the first hour of the expo in Ningbo, a young boy pushed over a human-sized sculpture and sent its pieces toppling to the ground, according to state-run CCTV. The artwork, an intricate statue of a fox named Nick from the animated Disney film "Zootopia," took three days to create and cost more than $15,000, CCTV said on its Facebook page. The artist, who CCTV identifies as "Mr. Zhao," chronicled the experience on social media, posting pictures that showed him building the Lego sculpture brick by brick. The last image shows the sculpture in pieces. Zhao accepted the parents' apology for the actions of their son -- thought to be 4 or 5 years old -- and did not request compensation, according to CCTV. "The child did not intend to break it," Zhao said, as quoted by CCTV.

Link - ( New Window )

In comment 12979515 David in LA said:

Quote:

In comment 12979314 montanagiant said: Quote: In comment 12979102 Randy in CT said: Quote: The parents and the zoo should both be accountable. The parents can see what the enclosure is like and I'm sorry if some here are different, but when my kids are/were young and we are in a scenario like that, I'm not taking my eyes off them. To the zoo: Seriously? Anybody can throw someone over and in? An unknowing kid can sneak in that easily and put himself in danger, making you liable? Fix this? Especially in a public place full of strangers and dangerous animals behind cages. There is an implied level of higher scrutiny regarding their kids any parent would place themselves under in a situation like that. I kind of touched on this earlier. What if this happened under the watch of a school chaperone during a field trip? I have a feeling some of the posters (not all) that are more forgiving of the mother would be outraged at the chaperone for having a momentary lapse.

I doubt that. Most people who are more forgiving of the mother understand how hard it can be...

In comment 12979058 GiantFilthy said:

Quote:

about anyone or anything anymore. Just watch your kids, homie.

Do it with more than one and then judge.

In comment 12979825 Chris in Philly said:

Quote:

In comment 12979515 David in LA said: Quote: In comment 12979314 montanagiant said: Quote: In comment 12979102 Randy in CT said: Quote: The parents and the zoo should both be accountable. The parents can see what the enclosure is like and I'm sorry if some here are different, but when my kids are/were young and we are in a scenario like that, I'm not taking my eyes off them. To the zoo: Seriously? Anybody can throw someone over and in? An unknowing kid can sneak in that easily and put himself in danger, making you liable? Fix this? Especially in a public place full of strangers and dangerous animals behind cages. There is an implied level of higher scrutiny regarding their kids any parent would place themselves under in a situation like that. I kind of touched on this earlier. What if this happened under the watch of a school chaperone during a field trip? I have a feeling some of the posters (not all) that are more forgiving of the mother would be outraged at the chaperone for having a momentary lapse. I doubt that. Most people who are more forgiving of the mother understand how hard it can be...

Throw her in the lake and see if she floats.

Quote:

Chris in Philly : 11:11 am : link : reply Do it with more than one and then judge.

I mean it's not like KidFilthy doesn't have friends (more than I do) and we haven't had to be out in public many times watching her and others. I guess I just don't find it difficult to not let other things distract me.

I just can't imagine that 1) wanting to wander off and explore out of mom's view is anything new for this kid. And 2) after seeing the wimpy barrier set up to protect anyone from falling in a gorilla pit, this mom didn't think to have her eye on her little shit even more than usual.

she isn't winning mother of the year anytime soon. But the having her pay for the death of the animal talk is a little over the top as the zoo holds some liability here as well. Right, wrong or indifferent, kids do tend to get away from parents.

In comment 12979881 GiantFilthy said:

Quote:

Quote: Chris in Philly : 11:11 am : link : reply Do it with more than one and then judge. I mean it's not like KidFilthy doesn't have friends (more than I do) and we haven't had to be out in public many times watching her and others. I guess I just don't find it difficult to not let other things distract me. I just can't imagine that 1) wanting to wander off and explore out of mom's view is anything new for this kid. And 2) after seeing the wimpy barrier set up to protect anyone from falling in a gorilla pit, this mom didn't think to have her eye on her little shit even more than usual.

Girls don't count

Managing a 4 year old girl in public is a cake walk compared to the hanibal lechter transfer that is taking a 4 year old boy out in a place like a zoo

on BBI

not the one above it.

Quote:

ron mexico : 12:15 pm : link : reply Girls don't count Managing a 4 year old girl in public is a cake walk compared to the hanibal lechter transfer that is taking a 4 year old boy out in a place like a zoo

FOR THE RECORD!!!! KidFilthy is a girl going on 7 but her friends are boys because she knows girls are fucking idiots and gross.

In comment 12979926 ron mexico said:

Quote:

In comment 12979881 GiantFilthy said: Quote: Quote: Chris in Philly : 11:11 am : link : reply Do it with more than one and then judge. I mean it's not like KidFilthy doesn't have friends (more than I do) and we haven't had to be out in public many times watching her and others. I guess I just don't find it difficult to not let other things distract me. I just can't imagine that 1) wanting to wander off and explore out of mom's view is anything new for this kid. And 2) after seeing the wimpy barrier set up to protect anyone from falling in a gorilla pit, this mom didn't think to have her eye on her little shit even more than usual. Girls don't count Managing a 4 year old girl in public is a cake walk compared to the hanibal lechter transfer that is taking a 4 year old boy out in a place like a zoo

Bahahaha. So true...

[quote]The parents can see what the enclosure is like and I'm sorry if some here are different, but when my kids are/were young and we are in a scenario like that, I'm not taking my eyes off them.{/quote]

What, exactly was the scenario to which you refer? The exhibit had not had an incident in 38 years. What exactly was there that the parent were supposed to have seen? That there was a crevice, hidden by bushes, that was just big enough for a 3-year old to wriggle through?

Clearly, some people here are pissed off enough to envision scenarios they haven't actually witnessed, in order to find someone to blame. And they do so with such remarkable confidence.

Quote:

manh george : 12:26 pm : link : reply What exactly was there that the parent were supposed to have seen?

Their kid.

And no parent here has ever had a 3-year-old boy wriggle out of their grasp or run out of site momentarily? Never happens?

If you look at the picture of the barrier, yeah, it looks kinda low on top, but for the kid to having gotten into the exhibit, he had to wriggle UNDER it, and THEN over it. Were there signs that the bushy primary fence had gaps underneath? That there was a way to wriggle through those gaps and then over the wall behinds them? Show me.

Since there hadn't been an incident in 38 years, perhaps the zoo got a little complacent about keeping the underbrush of the bushes in good shape?

I took my son to the 2 NY zoos all of the time, alone or with his friends. While I kept an eye on him/them, he/they often got excited by the animals, and often tried to run off on his own to see something up close. He tried all of the time to put his fingers through a wire fence, and I had to scold him about that. I never had any sense that there was danger that he would get through barriers into an exhibit, though.

Did that make me a bad parent? Dollars to donuts, tens of thousands of parents have had exactly that happen in zoos generally and around the very exhibit in question, over a 38 year period. Does that make THEM bad parents, or are the only bad parents the ones who had this unfortunate incident? Should a parent assume that a three-year-old boy has the physical skills to accomplish what this kid did--wriggle under the brush barrier and then over the wall behind it?

This really is nonsense.

Quote:

manh george : 1:02 pm : link : reply If you look at the picture of the barrier, yeah, it looks kinda low on top, but for the kid to having gotten into the exhibit, he had to wriggle UNDER it, and THEN over it.

So what you are saying is that the parent must have REALLY not been paying attention since it would have take some time and effort for the kid to get in.

then the zoo should be held partially accountable. What they depended on is that no one would fall in the moat. the fence itself is horrendously inefficient at keeping anyone out. It doesn't matter if they went 38 years without an incident. That fence/set up is inadequate.

As for parenting, I said it before, I'll say it again. If you think you've never lost sight of your 4 year old in a crowd long enough for this to have happened, you're 'delusional' (aka full of shit). We simply don't know if the lost sight in this incidence was long enough to cast aspersions.

IF there was a hole under the brush, he could have wriggled through it in 5 seconds. I have no idea. Neither do you.

Ronnie had it right:

Quote:

I agree that parents should definitely be attentive to their kids, both safety and needs. However, for a parent to be 100% attentive at all time is unrealistic. As stated above by a few posters, this would never have been a story about a mother being negligent as many are saying if it happened anywhere else. But by some shitty coincidence of shitty events (mother being distracted momentarily, kid wanting to go meet the gorilla (and meaning it), and the enclosure being less than effective), this became a tragic story. So tell me, if this mother became distracted near a penguin exhibit (that was effective in keeping people out) and the kid happened to walk away from the mother and start yelling at the penguins, would she still be considered criminally negligent? I mean, she lost sight of her child momentarily and all when she should have been watching him, right? Or is the condition for being negligent all based on the outcome of an event? And not the actual act of losing sight of her child? What is it?

as well.

In comment 12979568 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

would definitely catch a lot of flack but say they are watching 10 kids, isn't it the Zoo's job to make it safe for schools and large groups of children to come to see their exhibits? Again, I went to the Bronx Zoo many times as a child as well as a couple local ones in CT. We ran off all the time, its simply impossible for a chaperone to account for every child at every single second.

Running off is one thing, but did you (or anyone you know) try to crawl into an exhibit where a live animal was?

In comment 12979998 speedywheels said:

Quote:

In comment 12979568 UConn4523 said: Quote: would definitely catch a lot of flack but say they are watching 10 kids, isn't it the Zoo's job to make it safe for schools and large groups of children to come to see their exhibits? Again, I went to the Bronx Zoo many times as a child as well as a couple local ones in CT. We ran off all the time, its simply impossible for a chaperone to account for every child at every single second. Running off is one thing, but did you (or anyone you know) try to crawl into an exhibit where a live animal was?

No, but how long did it take the kid, 5 maybe 10 seconds? As a parent going into a place that's designed specifically for families, you go into it thinking that they won't be put in danger and that losing site of said kid for well under 30 seconds wouldn't result in tragedy.

That picture of the exhibit is frightening from the standpoint that I can basically swing my leg over as an adult and jump in if I wanted to. Going incident free for that long is sheer luck, IMO, and had nothing to do with every other park attendee being great parents.

This was a freak accident that can happen to anyone, regardless of parenting skills.

Does the utterly unexpected nature of that behavior make the parents more or less negligent? I would think less.

Quote:

UConn4523 : 1:27 pm : link : reply Going incident free for that long is sheer luck, IMO, and had nothing to do with every other park attendee being great parents.

You don't even need to be a "great" parent to think about having your 4 year old by your side with a fence like that, in my opinion.

this reminds me of our previous discussions regarding children accidentally being left in cars resulting in tragedies. One doesn't have to be a negligent parent to make life altering tragic mistakes.

Quote:

While a bit more in the extreme case... RC02XX : 1:36 pm : link : reply this reminds me of our previous discussions regarding children accidentally being left in cars resulting in tragedies. One doesn't have to be a negligent parent to make life altering tragic mistakes.

Maybe not negligent up to that point, but you do have to be a colossal moron and have some fucked up priorities as usually it's "work stress" and "in a rush" or some bullshit excuse that is given.

Just my opinion though. Before any of you reply I do realize I'm not allowed to judge until I myself have had a child I wanted to kill in a hot car.

Quote:

No, I didn't say that at all. manh george : 1:18 pm : link : reply IF there was a hole under the brush, he could have wriggled through it in 5 seconds. I have no idea. Neither do you.

That would just be adding details to the story that up to this point don't exist though.

In comment 12980031 GiantFilthy said:

Quote:

Quote: While a bit more in the extreme case... RC02XX : 1:36 pm : link : reply this reminds me of our previous discussions regarding children accidentally being left in cars resulting in tragedies. One doesn't have to be a negligent parent to make life altering tragic mistakes. Maybe not negligent up to that point, but you do have to be a colossal moron and have some fucked up priorities as usually it's "work stress" and "in a rush" or some bullshit excuse that is given. Just my opinion though. Before any of you reply I do realize I'm not allowed to judge until I myself have had a child I wanted to kill in a hot car.

Don't be flippant, man. We've been more than respectful of our disagreements. I was merely stating something that I remembered.

Touchy subject for me though after knowing someone who came within inches of killing their kid in the car years back.

And yet you are willing to assume an awful lot that you simply don't know. Why are your assumptions more valid? Because they play better into your anger?

but on that note I can't imagine any parent here or anywhere could see themselves making that mistake.

In comment 12980056 GiantFilthy said:

Quote:

Touchy subject for me though after knowing someone who came within inches of killing their kid in the car years back.

And I was being serious about this being another contentious topic that every parent with small children need to constantly be vigilant about. I didn't expect a shit sarcastic comment in return. But no biggie. I'm sorry that you almost had to go through this tragedy with someone you know.

they hadn't had an incident like this in (as mg wrote) 38 years, putting some focus on the parenting of the child isn't that outrageous. Just perhaps, it does take some time (with nobody watching) to get yourself into a place where you can potentially fall.

This absolving of the parents is sure interesting.

Quote:

Yes, adding details that don't exist. manh george : 1:58 pm : link : reply And yet you are willing to assume an awful lot that you simply don't know. Why are your assumptions more valid? Because they play better into your anger?

This whole thread has been about a parent not looking, which I guess you can say is my assumption and it would be the natural one to have. But you are changing the terrain. There is a little difference at least.

And I'm not angry at this person letting their kid almost get ripped apart. I get mad at anyone for having kids.

In comment 12980063 GiantFilthy said:

Quote:

but on that note I can't imagine any parent here or anywhere could see themselves making that mistake.

The thread was regarding the father in Georgia (I think), who intentionally left his son to die in the car because he wanted to start a new life.

And with there being almost 40 incidents a year in which children actually die in hot cars (who knows how many other incidents in which parents were able to remember in time to get back to the car and thus aren't counted), it isn't something that's so out of the realm of possibility that good parents can't make such tragic mistakes.

And of course none of us ever think we can make the same mistake, but tragic accidents do happen to good people. Whether you agree that some of these are accidents or just parents being negligent and shitty doesn't matter at this point. It happens.

In comment 12980069 Randy in CT said:

Quote:

they hadn't had an incident like this in (as mg wrote) 38 years, putting some focus on the parenting of the child isn't that outrageous. Just perhaps, it does take some time (with nobody watching) to get yourself into a place where you can potentially fall. This absolving of the parents is sure interesting.

We dont need to guess. A witness said the boy was through in a flash. Too fast for her to grab him.

In comment 12980069 Randy in CT said:

Quote:

they hadn't had an incident like this in (as mg wrote) 38 years, putting some focus on the parenting of the child isn't that outrageous. Just perhaps, it does take some time (with nobody watching) to get yourself into a place where you can potentially fall. This absolving of the parents is sure interesting.

People aren't absolving anyone. People are empathizing and saying there just isn't enough information to make such black and white call like some have done here. There is a huge gulf between absolving and witch-hunting.

In comment 12980023 RC02XX said:

Quote:

this reminds me of our previous discussions regarding children accidentally being left in cars resulting in tragedies. One doesn't have to be a negligent parent to make life altering tragic mistakes.

How do you "accidentally" leave a kid in a car? When I was young (probably 8+), I was left in the car with the windows open if my parents needed to run a quick errand (bank, grab some bread, etc). But this was never by "accident" as they were intentionally leaving me.

what you are saying, then, is that for 37.999 years, no parent had ever been negligent in keeping track of their kid around this particular exhibit, so that surely the parents in this particular case did a shitty job?

Or did potentially hundreds or thousands of prior instances of kids getting away from their parents briefly simply not result in the kid crawling under the bushes and into the moat?

And Filthy, as far as the amount of time involved, there was this comment from an eyewitness:

Quote:

None of us actually thought he’d go over the nearly 15 foot drop, but he was crawling so fast through the bushes before myself or husband could grab him, he went over!

Despite this, you seem to know for a fact that the kid was off by himself for some extended period of time. Based upon what?

Quote:

manh george : 2:14 pm : link : reply None of us actually thought he’d go over the nearly 15 foot drop, but he was crawling so fast through the bushes before myself or husband could grab him, he went over! Despite this, you seem to know for a fact that the kid was off by himself for some extended period of time. Based upon what?

"Crawling so fast" AFTER the kid had already climbed through that fence I'm guessing? Yeah, no chance KidFilthy even gets past that barrier, nor would she try. Sorry, I just have more confidence in myself here.

Quote:

I didn't expect a shit sarcastic comment in return.

It's like you don't even know him.

In comment 12980086 GiantFilthy said:

Quote:

Quote: manh george : 2:14 pm : link : reply None of us actually thought he’d go over the nearly 15 foot drop, but he was crawling so fast through the bushes before myself or husband could grab him, he went over! Despite this, you seem to know for a fact that the kid was off by himself for some extended period of time. Based upon what? "Crawling so fast" AFTER the kid had already climbed through that fence I'm guessing? Yeah, no chance KidFilthy even gets past that barrier, nor would she try. Sorry, I just have more confidence in myself here.

You should start exercising your kid, she sounds slow.

Whats her 3 cone time?

In comment 12980088 BrettNYG10 said:

Quote:

Quote: I didn't expect a shit sarcastic comment in return. It's like you don't even know him.

I like to think that Filthy is far above your level of discourse, you fat fucking dwarf.

In comment 12980090 ron mexico said:

Quote:

You should start exercising your kid, she sounds slow. Whats her 3 cone time?

She's a girl...does it matter?...;)

In comment 12980093 RC02XX said:

Quote:

In comment 12980088 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: Quote: I didn't expect a shit sarcastic comment in return. It's like you don't even know him. I like to think that Filthy is far above your level of discourse, you fat fucking dwarf.

How dare you.

In comment 12980097 BrettNYG10 said:

Quote:

I like to think that Filthy is far above your level of discourse, you fat fucking dwarf. How dare you.

Truth hurts, you short rotundo.

In comment 12980093 RC02XX said:

Quote:

In comment 12980088 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: Quote: I didn't expect a shit sarcastic comment in return. It's like you don't even know him. I like to think that Filthy is far above your level of discourse, you fat fucking dwarf.

Leave Danny DeVito alone!