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NFT: Jordan Speith. Perhaps the best putter I've ever seen.

yatqb : 5/29/2016 6:15 pm
For me, Tiger and Jack were, not surprisingly given their records, the best putters I've ever seen until JS. But this kid is phenomenal.

I know his stats aren't #1 this year (he's 3rd by a smidge before this week) but I don't think I've ever seen so many long range putts drop as he sinks when he's on his game.

Your thoughts?
He's 22  
arniefez : 5/29/2016 6:18 pm : link
Get back to us in 10 years. But so far? Phenomenal!
He has 2 weaknesses he needs to correct  
Stan in LA : 5/29/2016 6:24 pm : link
That miss to the right under pressure(this week he seemed to correct it, needs to stay down and through)...

and

Lack of length. He cannot continue to compete with the Day's and the Rory's of the world giving up 30-50 yards off the tee by making long putts every week. Not sustainable. He has the frame to do it, he just needs to commit to it.
Jordan is terrific  
dune69 : 5/29/2016 6:27 pm : link
the speed on his putts is extraordinay. Good speed in putting gives the ball a chance to go in and his long range speed is better than most. I won't compare him at 22 years of age, but putting is certainly an advantage for this young golfer.
RE: He's 22  
yatqb : 5/29/2016 6:28 pm : link
In comment 12975671 arniefez said:
Quote:
Get back to us in 10 years. But so far? Phenomenal!


arnie, no doubt his youth is a big plus. I understand it's "for the moment" but phenomenal is the word for it right now.
RE: He has 2 weaknesses he needs to correct  
dune69 : 5/29/2016 6:30 pm : link
In comment 12975682 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
That miss to the right under pressure(this week he seemed to correct it, needs to stay down and through)...

and

Lack of length. He cannot continue to compete with the Day's and the Rory's of the world giving up 30-50 yards off the tee by making long putts every week. Not sustainable. He has the frame to do it, he just needs to commit to it.


Right Stan. That lack of distance has not kept him from winning 8 times before the age of 23. More than Tiger. You need to grow a brain before you speak.
Rory can't putt  
arniefez : 5/29/2016 6:33 pm : link
He'll have his hot weeks he's an amazing talent but bad putting will make his entire game ordinary if he doesn't get better soon. As for Speith hopefully he's smart enough not to listen to fools who talk about distance. Just keep doing what he's doing without becoming a workout wonder and he'll have a historic career. He's on his way.
Stan is right.  
Crispino : 5/29/2016 6:45 pm : link
His lack of length IS going to hurt him in the long run. You can't expect to continue to win by putting from father away than the rest of the long hitters. Right now, the phenomenal long range putting is carrying him, but it will be tough to sustain over the long haul.
No doubt the length is an issue. But that short game is  
yatqb : 5/29/2016 6:51 pm : link
special, and if he can keep that up for a decade we'll witness some fun golf.
Oh, I love the kid and I'm rooting for him.  
Crispino : 5/29/2016 6:58 pm : link
But being among the shortest hitters in the current lead pack of elite players is not a good thing. His short game is carrying him, but eventually hitting 6 irons when the big boys are hitting 8's into greens will catch up to him, IMO.
Best putter ever?  
Carl in CT : 5/29/2016 7:33 pm : link
Wow to anoint him that at 22? Ben Crenshaw not as good of a golfer but a better putter!
RE: He has 2 weaknesses he needs to correct  
section125 : 5/29/2016 7:43 pm : link
In comment 12975682 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
He cannot continue to compete with the Day's and the Rory's of the world giving up 30-50 yards off the tee by making long putts every week. Not sustainable. He has the frame to do it, he just needs to commit to it.


He's 12 yds behind Rory and 7 behind Day in avg driving distance. One club. Rory folds like a cheap suit on numerous occasions but Day is a Rock.
Spieth is a solid putter, which is why he is better than Rory.
RE: Stan is right.  
dune69 : 5/29/2016 7:49 pm : link
In comment 12975701 Crispino said:
Quote:
His lack of length IS going to hurt him in the long run. You can't expect to continue to win by putting from father away than the rest of the long hitters. Right now, the phenomenal long range putting is carrying him, but it will be tough to sustain over the long haul.


Let's not make Spieth seem like David Toms off the tee. Spieth's average is 7 yards behind Jason Day and 12 yards behind Rory. Spieth hit 3 woods and a driving iron often the past few weeks. Yes he is shorter than Day and McIlroy, but it won't stop him from winning tournaments. His iron play is a bigger problem for him than his distance this year.
And he's 1 club shorter with his irons.  
Crispino : 5/29/2016 7:50 pm : link
So there's your 2 club difference.
Spieth  
English Alaister : 5/29/2016 7:51 pm : link
is definitely on a trajectory to be the best putter the game has seen...certainly in recent times.

Driving distance wise Rory is 12 yards longer, Day is 7 looking at averages. This story that Spieth has to hit a lob wedge before he is past Day is ridiculous. Spieth ranks 54th of 200+ PGA tour pros in distance. He's good getting better.

I love Rory, he is a phenom but I think the ball is in his court. If he doesn't improve it seems very likely that he will be eclipsed by Spieth over their careers. He's just tidier around the greens and putts win trophies.


I love to watch Jason Day  
dune69 : 5/29/2016 8:02 pm : link
but I worry that his swing is so violent that he will have back issues. I hope not because he is a great player.
RE: And he's 1 club shorter with his irons.  
section125 : 5/29/2016 8:22 pm : link
In comment 12975733 Crispino said:
Quote:
So there's your 2 club difference.


No. He is one club shorter, period. Since most holes are par 4's he's on in two anyway using maybe a 7 to Rory's 8. He's not an additional club shorter on irons.
You think Spieth is only shorter with his driver?  
Crispino : 5/29/2016 8:45 pm : link
No, the shorter with his irons too. 12 yards shorter with the driver, probably another 10 shorter with the irons. That's a 22 yard difference in your approach, or 2 clubs.

This is what made Tiger so dominant when he was at his best. He was often hitting two clubs less into greens than many of his competitors. The higher you hit it with a more lofted club, the easier it is to hit it close. Spieth is negating the disparity by dropping a lot of long putts. It's not that hard to understand.
Sam Snead said it...  
BMac : 5/29/2016 9:02 pm : link
..."You drive for show and putt for dough."

If his long game is adequate and the short game is superior, he's going to win a whole lot.
The quote is attributed to Snead...  
BMac : 5/29/2016 9:03 pm : link
...in many places, but was actually made by Bobby Locke.
The distance thing  
UConn4523 : 5/29/2016 9:10 pm : link
is something that sure, he's probably love to be a bit longer but he's really making it less of an issue with how complete his is elsewhere. Not pounding the gym or increasing torque will keep him in the game for decades, he's better off the way he is.
Except that you have a much better chance of making ...  
Crispino : 5/29/2016 9:12 pm : link
a lot of putts from shorter distances than long ones. And if you drive it longer you have a better chance of hitting approaches close. The quote is an indictment of guys who can only pound it, but don't have a short game. The best players can pound it and putt.
Again, I'm not saying he has no chance of...  
Crispino : 5/29/2016 9:20 pm : link
a long time top tier player. Only that his lack of length may work against him in the long run. Love this kid and I'm a huge fan. He's a great kid, and the top American player.
The best putter since Tiger in his prime  
dpinzow : 5/29/2016 9:22 pm : link
nobody was a better putter than Tiger in his prime
Tiger was never the best putter statistically....  
Crispino : 5/29/2016 9:38 pm : link
but under pressure, phenomenal. He seemed to will the ball in the hole when it was a crucial putt.
Spieth will be in the mix for the 31 ranking for a long time...  
Torrag : 5/29/2016 10:05 pm : link
...he doesn't need more length to do so. He has great accuracy with his long clubs and the best short game. You can consistently win Majors with that formula.
RE: Tiger was never the best putter statistically....  
yatqb : 5/29/2016 11:37 pm : link
In comment 12975835 Crispino said:
Quote:
but under pressure, phenomenal. He seemed to will the ball in the hole when it was a crucial putt.


Yup, in his prime there was no one better in big situations. And not just putting...chipping and long irons too, and of course he was longer than almost anyone else at that time too.
RE: Stan is right.  
Stan in LA : 5/30/2016 12:37 am : link
In comment 12975701 Crispino said:
Quote:
His lack of length IS going to hurt him in the long run. You can't expect to continue to win by putting from father away than the rest of the long hitters. Right now, the phenomenal long range putting is carrying him, but it will be tough to sustain over the long haul.


Exactly.
Tiger was money, so was Jack  
Carl in CT : 5/30/2016 9:42 am : link
But Crenshaw and Faxon wouldn't have cashed a check if it wasn't for a putter. JS is good all around.
He's 22 he's going to get stronger naturally  
arniefez : 5/30/2016 10:47 am : link
He would be an idiot to follow the Tiger & Rory bulk up for distance routine. No one will ever be Tiger Woods again. Jack Nicklaus wasn't Tiger Woods. No one will ever play at that level for that amount of time with a no weakness game.

Jack was one of the worst guys on tour from 100 yards in in his prime at his greatest. It didn't matter he didn't need that part of the game in his era. There has only been one golfer ever with no weak part of his game. Tiger Woods.

Speith just need average length and he'll have a chance to win many more majors. Speith has plenty of game for the Masters, the US Open & The Open Championship are rarely about length. That's 3 out of 4 every year.

The only thing that can derail Speith is listening to media idiots like Peter Kostis pick apart his swing. He's really smart. Hopefully he'll just keep doing what he's doing.
Ok right!  
Carl in CT : 5/30/2016 12:05 pm : link
Jack wasn't Tiger. Jack just won the most majors of all time. Just stop! However the one thing you are right about in a round about way, the sport has improved greatly. No one will be that dominant again. Too much parity. Tiger wouldn't be Tiger if he played in this era. These kids are bigger, stronger and better all the way around. And this is coming from someone who has seen them all.
Spieth has won and been a top player his entire life at every level  
guineaT : 5/30/2016 2:55 pm : link
He doesn't need to change anything to compete at the highest levels of the game. Just keep doing what he's been doing and allow for his body to naturally and organically develop as time progresses.
RE: The distance thing  
bradshaw44 : 5/30/2016 3:01 pm : link
In comment 12975804 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
is something that sure, he's probably love to be a bit longer but he's really making it less of an issue with how complete his is elsewhere. Not pounding the gym or increasing torque will keep him in the game for decades, he's better off the way he is.


I agree with this take. Once a golfer starts messing with their body mass it can really affect their game.
Carl in CT  
arniefez : 5/30/2016 5:05 pm : link
Stop. You're embarrassing yourself. I forgot more about golf today than you'll know in your whole life. Jack was a bad wedge player. Not average. Bad. No one has ever played golf at the level Tiger Woods did especially for as long as he did it. Winning the Masters by double digits, winning the US Open by 15. Shooting the lowest rounds in majors every day of the tournament. For everything that's been written and discussed about Tiger Woods at this point his personal life has over shadowed his golf and because of how far his game has fallen he's actually underrated. Jack never embarrassed himself on or off the course like Tiger has but he didn't have the complete game at his best like Tiger did either. But he was still Jack f'n Nicklaus and he did it the right way.
Listen Pal  
Carl in CT : 5/30/2016 10:04 pm : link
you're embarrassing yourself. To say Jack is not in Tigers league is just wrong and quite frankly and huge insult to Jack. If you google who was the greatest golfer of all time you will see it split by sites that have more knowledge than you or me. (And believe me I know the game). Different era, different players. Both Nasty. Both Great!
Also remember  
Carl in CT : 5/30/2016 10:11 pm : link
Tiger said it after winning the memorial in 2012 that Jack was the best ever cause the only thing that matters is majors and its 18-14. We won't also talk runner ups in majors as Jack was like 19-5 ahead of Tiger. So when you say how long Tiger did it. Look at Jacks stats.
It's impossible to compare Tiger and Jack fairly.  
GiantGolfer : 5/31/2016 7:25 am : link
Both were the best of their generations. The depth of quality competition has increased drastically over the years, so the "runner-up" argument is very skewed in my opinion.

All I know is...if I need to pick 1 golfer to make 1 putt? It's Tiger.
RE: You think Spieth is only shorter with his driver?  
section125 : 5/31/2016 7:40 am : link
In comment 12975772 Crispino said:
Quote:
No, the shorter with his irons too. 12 yards shorter with the driver, probably another 10 shorter with the irons. That's a 22 yard difference in your approach, or 2 clubs.

This is what made Tiger so dominant when he was at his best. He was often hitting two clubs less into greens than many of his competitors. The higher you hit it with a more lofted club, the easier it is to hit it close. Spieth is negating the disparity by dropping a lot of long putts. It's not that hard to understand.


He's not a full club shorter with his irons. It doesn't work that way. The driver is a different beast. The irons depend on what they are wanting to do, what shape looking for, what flight they want, what effect they want when the ball lands.
To elaborate on my previous comment  
UConn4523 : 5/31/2016 8:39 am : link
Tiger is exhibit A of why Speith shouldn't focus too much on adding length to his driver. During the early portion of Tiger's career he and I believe Vijay Singh basically didn't give a shit about fairways, just wanted to hit it as far as possible for the shortest possible approach shot, regardless of being in the fairway or rough. Since then courses were "Tiger proofed", making them longer with accuracy more important.

Speith should not fall into that trap. He shouldn't ruin his body (back, knees, etc) just to add 10-15 yards to his driver. He's won more than enough to convince me he that he has the best mechanics in the game and when you have that along with clutch putting, just leave it alone.

As for the Tiger vs. Jack argument, I'm going Tiger. Jack has the ultimate prize of 18-14 but in terms of sheer dominance for a prolonged stretch AND changing the game, Tiger takes it for me.
RE: It's impossible to compare Tiger and Jack fairly.  
jlukes : 5/31/2016 8:57 am : link
In comment 12976933 GiantGolfer said:
Quote:
Both were the best of their generations. The depth of quality competition has increased drastically over the years, so the "runner-up" argument is very skewed in my opinion.

All I know is...if I need to pick 1 golfer to make 1 putt? It's Tiger.


Same.
Sec 125, Spieth ranked around 45th on tour in accuracy....  
Crispino : 5/31/2016 6:26 pm : link
on approach shots between 175-200 yards last year. He ranks about 175 on tour right now. He's making up for it with lights out long distance putting. It's a function of hitting longer irons in. And yes, if you're a shorter hitter with the driver, you're likely to be a shorter hitter with your irons. How many guys have you played with who drive it 12 yards short of your drive, but hit the same iron as you on their approach?

I'm not advocating that he bulk up to get longer. I just see it as something that may hurt him in the long run.
RE: Sec 125, Spieth ranked around 45th on tour in accuracy....  
section125 : 5/31/2016 7:01 pm : link
In comment 12977911 Crispino said:
Quote:
on approach shots between 175-200 yards last year. He ranks about 175 on tour right now. He's making up for it with lights out long distance putting. It's a function of hitting longer irons in. And yes, if you're a shorter hitter with the driver, you're likely to be a shorter hitter with your irons. How many guys have you played with who drive it 12 yards short of your drive, but hit the same iron as you on their approach?


I'm not advocating that he bulk up to get longer. I just see it as something that may hurt him in the long run.


I see what you mean and I'm not being dismissive, but off par three's he's hitting the same club as the others. So for the most part he's pretty close.
But his problem is his accuracy, not his distance. He's all over the place with his irons. In fact, he's all over the place with his driver, so of course he's hitting longer irons into the greens.
Hey the other day (yes it was a flyer) he hit a 9 iron 180 carry. He was expecting 170. 170 yard 9 iron. That is pretty far for anyone. John Daly was using a 7 iron for 180 back in his hay day.
He's just not real accurate (relatively) even, with short irons. He's just lights out with a putter.

Is he as good as Tiger, too early to tell. Tiger along with Jack, are the two best high pressure putters in the recent history of golf. He's starting to make a name for himself.
Why won't it hurt him now  
UConn4523 : 5/31/2016 8:07 pm : link
but will hurt him in the long run? If there's a buffer for other players getting better wouldn't it be fair to include him as someone who can get better too?
Yes, they "Tiger proofed" today's courses.  
PeterinAtlanta : 5/31/2016 8:27 pm : link
Before that, they "Bear proofed" them.
I brought that example up  
UConn4523 : 5/31/2016 9:15 pm : link
to showcase why many young golfers try to ramp up their distance which is oftentimes not sustainable to the body (Tiger). Speith is better off refining all aspects of his mid and short game and just try to be accurate off the tee regardless of distance.
UConn, because statistically, guys don't sustain....  
Crispino : 5/31/2016 10:35 pm : link
the long distance putting over the course of a career. At 22 he's he's putting great from long distance. Not likely he can sustain that over a career to the point that he's winning while constantly having to cover longer distance putts to win.
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