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NFT: The electronic strike zone

blueblood'11 : 5/30/2016 7:48 am
With the advances in technology and its applications in sports to review plays to get the calls right the conversation has slowly but surely set it's sight on the strike zone.

There are many who think in time it will become reality. There are those who are dead set against it. I can see both sides reasons for and against. Me personally I'm against it.

It's a topic that has picked up some steam over the past few weeks and I thought I'd throw it out there and see what you all think. Are you for or against an electronic strike zone and why?

The reason I'm against it is the human element. Just like every pitcher is different and the hitter has to take that into account every umpires strike zone is a bit different and the hitter as well as then pitcher has to take that into account. They have taken a lot of the romance out of the game already and by going to an electronic strike well, you might as well eventually get rid of the umpires completely and that would be a shame.



Umpire grading tool  
Steve in South Jersey : 5/30/2016 8:20 am : link
it should be used as a grading tool as part of each umpire's performance review.
I don't see the romance  
BobOnLI : 5/30/2016 8:31 am : link
in watching an umpire make consistently questionable calls that favor one pitcher over another. I don't question the integrity of the umpires. Rather, calling balls and strikes objectively is probably beyond the capability of even well trained professionals given the velocity and variety of pitches today. If something better is available I'm all for it.
Okay  
blueblood'11 : 5/30/2016 8:47 am : link
I see your point. But if they truly go by the letter of the law don't you think batting averages will go down as well offensive production. Let's be honest. The strike zone is supposed to be just under the armpit or the letters as they like to call it to the hollow under the knee caps.

The low strike gets called much more frequently then the high strike. And getting on top of the high fastball is much more difficult then squaring up the low pitches on a consistent basis. Plus, those edge pitches that look like they barely clip the plate that are so often called balls where 90 % of the ball is off the plate but the laces may just graze the sensors or whatever means they use will now be a strike.

If they truly employ the strike they have written in the rule book and apply it electronically I think there are going to be even more unhappy hitters in the major leagues.
I'm all for the electronic strikezone  
PhiPsi125 : 5/30/2016 9:54 am : link
There nothing romantic about umpires having different strikezones for different pitchers. More increasingly, we see these HP umpires make themselves part of the game. They are sensitive little fuckers that flip out at the sight of any chirping from batters or pitchers. And then they make the decision to penalize any batter/pitcher that dares to disagree with them.

HP umpires are easily the worst official out of any sport. I wouldn't miss them one bit.
The more we can get rid of the subjectivity in officiating, the better  
Gary from The East End : Admin : 5/30/2016 10:02 am : link
If the rulebook strikezone is unworkable, they can change it. There's no good reason to let different umpires call different strikezones depending on who is hitting, who is pitching, phase of the moon, etc.

The question is, can a computer call consistent balls and strikes with a higher degree of accuracy than humans. If they can, then they should.

Computer vision is becoming so advanced, they may not need any sort of special sensors. Just a high speed camera or three and some software.
I'd rather get rid of the shift. It neutralizes left handed hitters  
yatqb : 5/30/2016 10:08 am : link
and that's making baseball a less interesting offensive game.
RE: I'd rather get rid of the shift. It neutralizes left handed hitters  
PhiPsi125 : 5/30/2016 10:12 am : link
In comment 12976123 yatqb said:
Quote:
and that's making baseball a less interesting offensive game.


+1

In fact, get rid of them both.
RE: RE: I'd rather get rid of the shift. It neutralizes left handed hitters  
Matt M. : 5/30/2016 10:31 am : link
In comment 12976124 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 12976123 yatqb said:


Quote:


and that's making baseball a less interesting offensive game.



+1

In fact, get rid of them both.
The shift isn't new, illegal, or a bad defense. If hitters that aren't capable would stop trying to bet it, there would be no problem.
Gary  
blueblood'11 : 5/30/2016 10:50 am : link
But that is what differentiates baseball in a lot of ways then all the other sports. If you go to an electronic strike zone you homogenize the game even more and move closer to turning it into a video game. Not all pitchers, and hitters are the same. Niether are the umpires whether they are behind the plate or on the bases. That's what I love about the game. The human element. It's played by humans and slowly but surely officiated by machines, computers artificial intelligence or whaterver you want to call it.
Matt, it's not new, illegal or a bad defense...indeed it's a great  
yatqb : 5/30/2016 10:50 am : link
defense. But I still think it's damaging the game.

I agree that batters should go the other way more often than they do. But when pitchers pitch you inside routinely, forcing you to pull the ball, it's hard to go the other way.
Regardless, I think the shift takes away from the esthetics of the game.
RE: RE: RE: I'd rather get rid of the shift. It neutralizes left handed hitters  
PhiPsi125 : 5/30/2016 10:51 am : link
In comment 12976139 Matt M. said:
Quote:
In comment 12976124 PhiPsi125 said:


Quote:


In comment 12976123 yatqb said:


Quote:


and that's making baseball a less interesting offensive game.



+1

In fact, get rid of them both.

The shift isn't new, illegal, or a bad defense. If hitters that aren't capable would stop trying to bet it, there would be no problem.


You are right, the shifts isn't new, illegal or bad defense...it's just bad baseball.

And while the shift isn't new, it was rarely ever employed until the past decade and has exploded in use in the last two or three years. Personally, stacking all of your defenders on one side of the field is just as bad as the batter not hitting the other way. The shift is hurting the game and making it less watchable.

If pitchers weren't incapable of striking them out, there would be no problem.
RE: Matt, it's not new, illegal or a bad defense...indeed it's a great  
PhiPsi125 : 5/30/2016 10:52 am : link
In comment 12976152 yatqb said:
Quote:
defense. But I still think it's damaging the game.

I agree that batters should go the other way more often than they do. But when pitchers pitch you inside routinely, forcing you to pull the ball, it's hard to go the other way.
Regardless, I think the shift takes away from the esthetics of the game.


Bingo...teams line up in the shift, and then pitchers pound the batters inside forcing them to hit into the shift. "Going the other way" is way more difficult because of this. The Shift is an abomination of the game.
What kills me  
blueblood'11 : 5/30/2016 11:19 am : link
Is when the shift is employed and your pitcher goes middle out and the hitter hits it where the shortstop or second baseman would normally be. You see that happen a lot. if I were the pitcher that would really piss me off. Just because a shift is in order doesn't mean every pitch is going to be middle in.

Sometimes the pitcher does miss the target. And you don't want the hitter to only have to worry about one part of the plate. You want to put some doubt in their minds. Even though they are shifted is he going to try and cross me up and go away. If all they have to do is sit middle in they will eventually hurt you.
I fully support the e-strike zone.  
Section331 : 5/30/2016 11:22 am : link
The variation in strike zones from umpire to umpire borders on the ridiculous.
If hitters could bunt  
BobOnLI : 5/30/2016 11:27 am : link
defenses wouldn't be able to employ the radical shift on them. Like any sport, the fewer tools you have the easier you are to defend.
Not a fan of electronic strike zone  
Mike in NY : 5/30/2016 11:39 am : link
As pitchers with movement around the edges of the strike zone would cause issues. Also there is an inherit margin of error as you can't put sensors everywhere and a ball just needs to nick the strike zone to be a strike. Additionally, every hitter has a different size strike zone so you need to factor that in. If you look at a site like Brooks Baseball that records pitch FX data, it is much different than ESPN k zone. Finally, what matters most to me is consistency. I don't care if an umpire like Alfonso Marquez won't give a low strike as long as it is consistent. More than missed calls I am fed up when a pitch is called one way all game and then it changes.
Steve has the right idea  
Torrag : 5/30/2016 11:49 am : link
Umpire grading tool
Steve in South Jersey : 8:20 am : link : reply
it should be used as a grading tool as part of each umpire's performance review.


In combination with video it would also be a very good teaching tool for umpires. This is the strike zone we want...if you want to make it to and stay at the Major league level learn it and execute it.
Mike in NY  
blueblood'11 : 5/30/2016 11:52 am : link
That's one reason why a lot of people favor the electronic strike zone. I don't for a lot of the same reasons you gave. I believe balls that are never called strikes although you sit and say to yourself where was that pitch will now be called a strike. I think ultimately batting averages will go down and offensive production will take a significant hit.,

If you go back in time and look at the strike zone of the sixties, seventies, and early to mid eighties you had a much bigger strike zone and you didn't have the offensive output overall the game has had since the beginning of the nineties. Smaller strike zones allow the hitter to look for pitches that are inside a postage stamp strike zone. That helps promote more offense.
RE: Umpire grading tool  
mrvax : 5/30/2016 11:58 am : link
In comment 12976047 Steve in South Jersey said:
Quote:
it should be used as a grading tool as part of each umpire's performance review.


Good idea. Then the league can bring each umpire's perceived strike zone into the rule book strike zone.
RE: The more we can get rid of the subjectivity in officiating, the better  
mrvax : 5/30/2016 12:02 pm : link
In comment 12976119 Gary from The East End said:
Quote:
If the rulebook strikezone is unworkable, they can change it. There's no good reason to let different umpires call different strikezones depending on who is hitting, who is pitching, phase of the moon, etc.

The question is, can a computer call consistent balls and strikes with a higher degree of accuracy than humans. If they can, then they should.

Computer vision is becoming so advanced, they may not need any sort of special sensors. Just a high speed camera or three and some software.


Agree and if necessary, it's easy to install underground sensors along the sides of home plate.
So what happens  
blueblood'11 : 5/30/2016 12:10 pm : link
When in the course of the game the electronics shit the bed and it starts calling strikes that are balls. And or the system just totally craps out. Now the umpire has to get back on the bike and call it manually. That should make everyone happy.
My wife who is NOT a sports fan  
Dave on the UWS : 5/30/2016 12:38 pm : link
made an excellent point just now. What had made baseball the sport it is has EVERYTHING to do with the romance of the game. Human error, pitcher, catcher, managers argument all the subleties of the game are what makes it specials instant replay and any technology doesn't make the game better it changes it.
RE: So what happens  
Gary from The East End : Admin : 5/30/2016 12:55 pm : link
In comment 12976235 blueblood'11 said:
Quote:
When in the course of the game the electronics shit the bed and it starts calling strikes that are balls. And or the system just totally craps out. Now the umpire has to get back on the bike and call it manually. That should make everyone happy.


You run the system in parallel with the human umps for a year or so. Work out the bugs. Analyze the data. See how big the difference is between the computer's calls and the umps calls.

Then you see if switching makes sense.

RE: My wife who is NOT a sports fan  
Matt M. : 5/30/2016 1:01 pm : link
In comment 12976256 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
made an excellent point just now. What had made baseball the sport it is has EVERYTHING to do with the romance of the game. Human error, pitcher, catcher, managers argument all the subleties of the game are what makes it specials instant replay and any technology doesn't make the game better it changes it.
Yes and no. Replay can change some egregious calls like fair/foul. But, I agree about the strike zone. That said, there is the need for more consistency both from ump to ump and between what the umps call and what the rule book says. Specifically, they need to be calling the top 1/3 of the strike zone as strikes. It gives batters a distinct advantage.
RE: RE: So what happens  
Matt M. : 5/30/2016 1:02 pm : link
In comment 12976266 Gary from The East End said:
Quote:
In comment 12976235 blueblood'11 said:


Quote:


When in the course of the game the electronics shit the bed and it starts calling strikes that are balls. And or the system just totally craps out. Now the umpire has to get back on the bike and call it manually. That should make everyone happy.



You run the system in parallel with the human umps for a year or so. Work out the bugs. Analyze the data. See how big the difference is between the computer's calls and the umps calls.

Then you see if switching makes sense.
Didn't they already do this a couple of years ago (I forget the name of the system)? I don't recall the overall stats. But, I remember Glavine commenting on it a lot. I don't recall if he liked the system or the umps better.
Using it as a tool to teach umpires the correct zone  
guineaT : 5/30/2016 2:52 pm : link
And grade them accordingly to establish and maintain the consistency makes the most sense as others have alluded to. Not a radical change to the historic approach but a smart and significant one.
Would a challenge style like that in tennis work?  
Sarcastic Sam : 5/30/2016 5:48 pm : link
You get 3 challenges on offense and 3 on defense. Makes it part of the game, adds strategy since you need to conserve your challenges.

Just a thought. Not a very good one, apparently.
RE: Would a challenge style like that in tennis work?  
rebel yell : 5/30/2016 6:16 pm : link
In comment 12976493 Sarcastic Sam said:
Quote:
You get 3 challenges on offense and 3 on defense. Makes it part of the game, adds strategy since you need to conserve your challenges.

Just a thought. Not a very good one, apparently.

I think it's a great idea and was going to mention something similar. I was initially concerned about the use of Cyclops in tennis. But now I'm sold and I think it could work in baseball too. Your challenge recommendation is a good one.
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