These guys all did the best they could but were over rated by the powers that be and asked to do more than their abilities allowed ... Might as well put Glynn Griffing in that group also ... I don't blame them at all ... Another poster talked about Craig Morton ... now there's someone who cost a lot ... had the skills ... and stunk up the place ...
relief to the dreck that preceded him and he did a lot with a fair amount of scratch around him as WRs...
But after the NFC Championship game in SF, Eli's toughness and resiliency won me over lock, stock, and barrel. I have seen better QBs play than Eli... but no one else even close to Eli in toughness and resiliency. The guy is the definition of the champion that gets knocked down but not out, that never, ever, gives up.
And I have seen a better mre perfect play than Manning to Manningham. Perfect call, perfect throw, perfect catch. That was the art of football at it's best.
I grew up while watching the Giants what I called the dark ages… The 70s.
Didn't see much to get excited about and in his early years Phil Simms was held back by injuries and the strike year. But when he finally got healthy, he began to show his grit and toughness as a leader. In '86 after the Minnesota game when he threw to Bobby Johnson on fourth down and and ultimately we won, the team became a juggernaut and his performance in Super Bowl XXI was magnificent.
Eli however… Is incredible. He is the iceman. He proved it in Super Bowl XLII with the escape to hurl what became the Helmet Catch. And there is no other better evidence of that then the Championship game in 2011, in the rain at Candlestick Park. After getting mauled by that SF defense, with his jersey pulled over one shoulder pad and helmet half off his head the look in his eyes said it all… Cold, focused. As if to say: "I've got this." And...he did.
I started out at the end of Y.A. Tittle's career and really too young to make a good comment there. Then, Fran came along and helped us be competitive. I mean, we had nothing when Tark came aboard and he made us better and competitive. Almost made the playoffs in 1970 only to get blown out by the Rams in the final game of the season.
I liked Phil from the start, not sure why, but before his knees got battered, he could run and he was always tough as nails. But those were different times and we were a run first team. Nonetheless Bill allowed Phil to take chances and outside of Bavaro we really did not have much offensively save the running game. I saw Phil take a lot of punishment from Philly and other teams over those years and he was always there, every Sunday.
Took me a while to like Eli but considering his current games played streak and the terrible offensive lines he has had to deal with recently, Eli has earned my respect. It has to Eli, then Phil, then Fran...in my lifetime anyway.
Between Simms and Eli. Like mentioned above, it had been forever and Simms was a godsend.
While his SB game was one for the ages the Bobby Johnson play was my favorite Simms play. The Mark Ingram play is a close 2nd although that was all Ingram.
For Eli the Mario play is my favorite. So perfect. Under rated play was the pass to Smith after Tyree and before Plax which was also all Smith.
Between Simms and Eli. Like mentioned above, it had been forever and Simms was a godsend.
While his SB game was one for the ages the Bobby Johnson play was my favorite Simms play. The Mark Ingram play is a close 2nd although that was all Ingram.
For Eli the Mario play is my favorite. So perfect. Under rated play was the pass to Smith after Tyree and before Plax which was also all Smith.
Simms #2 due to his coming along after so much disappointment. We had some very good ones and some very bad ones.
I think that Tark went on to a great career after the stint with The Giants taught him how to run for his life.
Simms ... because QB is so much more than being a passer Â
... the QB position has traditionally been the leader of the team ... hell, for years quarterbacks called their own plays ... and Simms had that "something extra" that raised the level of play of the entire team. I still remember his first game. Was something like game 6 or so of his rookie year. Giants were losing and lethargic. Suddenly Simms comes in from the sidelines (I think in the middle of a drive but I'm not sure of that). What I am sure of - is the offense suddenly had jump in their legs. They broke the huddle and ran to the line of scrimmage. It was so clear that they believed in Simms. And that never changed until he hung up his cleats (despite Parcell's stupidity with Brunner).
Simms was tough as nails. An incredible competitor. A great passer (even if he took chances on throws he shouldn't). A team first guy. And a leader on and off the field.
It's taken me time, but Eli has won me over. I've seen every snap Simms and Eli have taken in their professional careers - if push came to shove, I'd choose Simms over Eli - but it would be close.
Giants QB in the Golden Age of Pro Football. No loss has ever hurt like that loss to the Bears in '63, when he got hurt.
Not far behind, Eli. That NFC Championship game in SF (I was fortunate enough to be there) was amazing. (Even the Niners fans, on the crowded bus back to the city - that's all they could talk about, Eli)
Never bitches
Never whines
Never injured
Never throws anyone under the bus
Very coachable
Is an ice cold killer in big games
2 SB wins
2 SB MVPs
Model citizen
Very involved with charities
Except for one a few years back, his teammates adore him
has at least 4 more years in him
Simms second. Like many here, those are the QBs I grew up and watched when I was able to understand football.
Eli has "it". He is not always the best QB on the field, but when the pressure is on, I would not want any other QB in the league. Even in a losing cause, I have never seen him mail it in.
I get choked up every time I think about his performances in big games. GB in the frigid weather, San Fran championship game, both his SB wins. Even losing efforts like NO and Carolina last year. The guy erased the word "can't" from his vocabulary.
BTW I will always smile when I think of him ruining the Cowgirls opening of Jerryworld and signing the locker room wall.
We are indeed lucky to have him and all future Giants' QBs will always be compared to #10. I will always bleed blue, but somehow things don't ever seem like they will feel the same once he is gone.
I started watching in the early 70's. It's hard not to like Simms. The Giants were so bad for so long. Simms won our first Superbowl and was on his way to another before the injury in Buffalo. So would argue that only Hostetler could have won the second playoff run and SB due to his scrambling.
Eli is a fun quarterback to watch in the playoffs. he's been great.
Both are unique in their era and its hard to pick one.
still wear a throwback 11 to every home game. Eli is now right there, and with a 3rd title, damn if he might pass Simms. #3 is Kerry Collins, loved how he was able to give us so much joy after the Simms hangover.
When you think about everything he accomplished despite all the injuries, the fearsome beatings he endured, the lack of receiving talent he had to work with....he had an amazing career. Don't forget that Bill Walsh's first choice among QBs in the 1979 draft wasn't Joe Montana - it was Phil Simms. I know Eli has the numbers, but if you somehow swapped the two of them, I can believe Simms would have equaled or exceeded Eli's accomplishments. The best receivers he ever had was Bavaro for a few years before his knee went and a half season of Mike Sherrard. Eli has thrown to more than a half-dozen receivers better than anyone Phil ever played with - Plax, Toomer, Smith, Nicks, Manningham, Cruz, and Beckham - and in a much more QB-friendly NFL than Phil played in as well.
But I always felt badly for Dave Brown. He was a local guy who grew up dreaming of playing for his beloved Giants, and saw that dream turn into a nightmare. While he may not have ever been a star, he never had a chance between the lousy offensive talent of the mid-90s Giants and a head coach who hated him and saddled him with an archaic, anemic offense. He might have had a decent career in better circumstances.
When you think about everything he accomplished despite all the injuries, the fearsome beatings he endured, the lack of receiving talent he had to work with....he had an amazing career. Don't forget that Bill Walsh's first choice among QBs in the 1979 draft wasn't Joe Montana - it was Phil Simms. I know Eli has the numbers, but if you somehow swapped the two of them, I can believe Simms would have equaled or exceeded Eli's accomplishments. The best receivers he ever had was Bavaro for a few years before his knee went and a half season of Mike Sherrard. Eli has thrown to more than a half-dozen receivers better than anyone Phil ever played with - Plax, Toomer, Smith, Nicks, Manningham, Cruz, and Beckham - and in a much more QB-friendly NFL than Phil played in as well.
Do you think Simms would have succeeded in Gilbride's system?
I'm not sure why he wouldn't have, though. He was a gunslinger too, and he had a stronger arm than Eli, and neither of them quite had pinpoint accuracy. I know everyone thinks Simms is a dummy based on his announcing career, but again, Bill Walsh thought he was smart enough to run the WCO in SF.
The one big advantage I'd give Eli over Simms is his ability to maneuver in pocket when he feels pressure. He's not mobile but he IS adept at sensing pressure and shifting around to buy time. Simms didn't do that - he just hung tough like a statue, which is why he took just a beating throughout his career. Tough as nails, but the way he played exposed him to some massive shots that Eli has shown he can avoid, which is why he's been much more durage than Simms.
just kept standing in the pocket and toot hits holding the ball until the last moment.
Things improved with better OL play late in his career and he became a very good passer -- his Super Bowl completion record is still there -- what a game he played that day.
When I was a boy it was Tarkenton. Then as a young adult and "Phil Who?" Simms arrived he almost immediately became my favorite and that lasted for many years but Eli has surpassed him in my eyes and has become my clear favorite.
Honorable mention goes to Y. A. Tittle who was always my dads favorite and while I have some faint memories of watching him with my dad I was simply much too young to really remember him as player and properly appreciate him because of that.
Grew up with #11 being one of the main reasons a kid from Montana Â
Like I said, Eli's had at least 6 WRs better than any of Simms' receivers. And while, yeah, he had Bavaro, Bavaro was only healthy for three and a half seasons.
Watched or listened to every down LT played as a Giant. He's the greatest football player ever. Not much of a person though. When saying who's the greatest Giant ever, character matters. But that's just me.
Kent Graham
Scott Brunner
Kent Graham
Scott Brunner
These guys all did the best they could but were over rated by the powers that be and asked to do more than their abilities allowed ... Might as well put Glynn Griffing in that group also ... I don't blame them at all ... Another poster talked about Craig Morton ... now there's someone who cost a lot ... had the skills ... and stunk up the place ...
But after the NFC Championship game in SF, Eli's toughness and resiliency won me over lock, stock, and barrel. I have seen better QBs play than Eli... but no one else even close to Eli in toughness and resiliency. The guy is the definition of the champion that gets knocked down but not out, that never, ever, gives up.
And I have seen a better mre perfect play than Manning to Manningham. Perfect call, perfect throw, perfect catch. That was the art of football at it's best.
Didn't see much to get excited about and in his early years Phil Simms was held back by injuries and the strike year. But when he finally got healthy, he began to show his grit and toughness as a leader. In '86 after the Minnesota game when he threw to Bobby Johnson on fourth down and and ultimately we won, the team became a juggernaut and his performance in Super Bowl XXI was magnificent.
Eli however… Is incredible. He is the iceman. He proved it in Super Bowl XLII with the escape to hurl what became the Helmet Catch. And there is no other better evidence of that then the Championship game in 2011, in the rain at Candlestick Park. After getting mauled by that SF defense, with his jersey pulled over one shoulder pad and helmet half off his head the look in his eyes said it all… Cold, focused. As if to say: "I've got this." And...he did.
I liked Phil from the start, not sure why, but before his knees got battered, he could run and he was always tough as nails. But those were different times and we were a run first team. Nonetheless Bill allowed Phil to take chances and outside of Bavaro we really did not have much offensively save the running game. I saw Phil take a lot of punishment from Philly and other teams over those years and he was always there, every Sunday.
Took me a while to like Eli but considering his current games played streak and the terrible offensive lines he has had to deal with recently, Eli has earned my respect. It has to Eli, then Phil, then Fran...in my lifetime anyway.
The two playoff finals - but especially San Francisco really showed a metal and toughness that will trancend the ages.
I loved Phil -- but Eli moved in and completely took over!!!
and of course, the 2011 NFC championship game, incredible performance all while getting pounded all game.
Most other QBs in the league don't keep it together with those beatings.
While his SB game was one for the ages the Bobby Johnson play was my favorite Simms play. The Mark Ingram play is a close 2nd although that was all Ingram.
For Eli the Mario play is my favorite. So perfect. Under rated play was the pass to Smith after Tyree and before Plax which was also all Smith.
While his SB game was one for the ages the Bobby Johnson play was my favorite Simms play. The Mark Ingram play is a close 2nd although that was all Ingram.
For Eli the Mario play is my favorite. So perfect. Under rated play was the pass to Smith after Tyree and before Plax which was also all Smith.
The Ingram play was of course Hostetler..:)
I think that Tark went on to a great career after the stint with The Giants taught him how to run for his life.
Simms was tough as nails. An incredible competitor. A great passer (even if he took chances on throws he shouldn't). A team first guy. And a leader on and off the field.
It's taken me time, but Eli has won me over. I've seen every snap Simms and Eli have taken in their professional careers - if push came to shove, I'd choose Simms over Eli - but it would be close.
Giants QB in the Golden Age of Pro Football. No loss has ever hurt like that loss to the Bears in '63, when he got hurt.
Not far behind, Eli. That NFC Championship game in SF (I was fortunate enough to be there) was amazing. (Even the Niners fans, on the crowded bus back to the city - that's all they could talk about, Eli)
Never whines
Never injured
Never throws anyone under the bus
Very coachable
Is an ice cold killer in big games
2 SB wins
2 SB MVPs
Model citizen
Very involved with charities
Except for one a few years back, his teammates adore him
has at least 4 more years in him
King Solomon would have a problem with you.
Eli has "it". He is not always the best QB on the field, but when the pressure is on, I would not want any other QB in the league. Even in a losing cause, I have never seen him mail it in.
I get choked up every time I think about his performances in big games. GB in the frigid weather, San Fran championship game, both his SB wins. Even losing efforts like NO and Carolina last year. The guy erased the word "can't" from his vocabulary.
BTW I will always smile when I think of him ruining the Cowgirls opening of Jerryworld and signing the locker room wall.
We are indeed lucky to have him and all future Giants' QBs will always be compared to #10. I will always bleed blue, but somehow things don't ever seem like they will feel the same once he is gone.
Eli is a fun quarterback to watch in the playoffs. he's been great.
Both are unique in their era and its hard to pick one.
You know what? I got lots of love for Dave Brown. Eli Manning is my favorite, followed by Phil Simms. But I love me some Dave Brown.
Do you think Simms would have succeeded in Gilbride's system?
The one big advantage I'd give Eli over Simms is his ability to maneuver in pocket when he feels pressure. He's not mobile but he IS adept at sensing pressure and shifting around to buy time. Simms didn't do that - he just hung tough like a statue, which is why he took just a beating throughout his career. Tough as nails, but the way he played exposed him to some massive shots that Eli has shown he can avoid, which is why he's been much more durage than Simms.
Eli is the best to date, but YA brought the longball excitement.
Things improved with better OL play late in his career and he became a very good passer -- his Super Bowl completion record is still there -- what a game he played that day.
Honorable mention goes to Y. A. Tittle who was always my dads favorite and while I have some faint memories of watching him with my dad I was simply much too young to really remember him as player and properly appreciate him because of that.
2. Simms (Though he makes me hate him as a color commentator)
3. Hoss (IT's over for the 3-peat) tough as nails
4. Kerry Collins
Born in '78
But honestly I can't see how it's not unanimously Eli.
And he's not done yet, by any stretch.
2. Simms (Though he makes me hate him as a color commentator)
3. Hoss (IT's over for the 3-peat) tough as nails
4. Kerry Collins
Born in '78
You were a one year old when Simms played his first game as a Giant.
Hey Shuler! You better hope I never get back in there, or I'll kick your fucking ass!
Eli's offenses
Fair?
Watched or listened to every down LT played as a Giant. He's the greatest football player ever. Not much of a person though. When saying who's the greatest Giant ever, character matters. But that's just me.